MFC Training (Monday)

[mdemonski2 403]

Great post on training.

Is there any chance that Jake Spencer can actually ruck which would allow Jamar to go to Full forward to be our strong marking forward?

I'm not sure that jake has ever had a problem with rucking. In previous years he seems to play a tap ruckman but totally ineffective around the ground. So sign are promising that he may be coming on from a skills perspective (can take a while, hence why ruckman can seemingly come from nowhere from rookie lists). Fingers crossed...

[hardtack 10,627]

I'm not sure that jake has ever had a problem with rucking. In previous years he seems to play a tap ruckman but totally ineffective around the ground. So sign are promising that he may be coming on from a skills perspective (can take a while, hence why ruckman can seemingly come from nowhere from rookie lists). Fingers crossed...

He looked pretty good in Shanghai... seemed to have a good vertical leap and was quite confronting for the opposing ruck.

[hrob 2]

Incredible!!

You got shouted down for writing off a teenager in his first season?!

Sometimes, the world makes you feel better when you realise the masses aren't that stupid afterall.

never wrote him off buddy, jst stated he looked a tad slow out there!

[Courtney_Fish 183]

i said something similar to this in the last couple of rounds about trenners n got verbally attacked by others on this site!

Maybe it's because of that bloody picture you use.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,089]

Anything on Stefan Martin? I'm interested to see what he's doing and whether he progresses enough to crack into the side.

From the OP:

Overall the session was highlighted by impressive skills, hard running and high speed activities. If anyone has played ultimate frisbee, they were playing the same type of game but using a tennis ball instead. It was non-stop man on man competition (teams of 10 per side) and the some of the guys looked stuffed after about 10 minutes. Steph Martin was showing some impressive speed which I haven't seen for a long time. Morton actually looked a bit bigger out there as well and his shoulders are finally starting to fill out a bit. Bartram and Bennell also really quick.

Not a lot but it's a good sign. His athleticism is his biggest weapon.

[MrReims 322]

Sometimes, the world makes you feel better when you realise the masses aren't that stupid afterall.

I dunno man, sounds a little like taking a few valium and lying down in a dark room to me........

[dee-tox 4,835]

To my way of thinking it's not fair to compare Trenners fitness with Sculls. Sculls ran out the season well,,, where I hear that Trenners body was getting tired & sore.

To my way of thinking the tired body would require a bigger rest, to recover, prior to starting a big heavy pre - season schedule. It takes 2 - 4 years to develop a big tank & a resilient body.

He's on his way.

It seems obvious that JT has done plenty of leg weights over the break. I reckon he's being groomed for a more inside role. With plenty of running throughout the pre-season he will slim down and shouldn't lose pace.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I hope not.

Bartram played as a defensive 'stopper' small defender for most of this year, and it was a position he played successfully. Bartram can play that position well because he has great physical attributes (above average speed, endurance and strength), but he is limited in his skill execution, decision making and creativity.

Bail also has elite physical attributes, however I see Bail as being a much more creative player who can provide drive as a dashing flanker/wingman. I would like to see Bail used more as an attacking weapon than a defensive stopper.

Bartram is good defensively but will always have issues on the counterattack. While he has improved in recent seasons, Bartram's position will always be in question where a better option arises. And the drive you talk of Bail could easily been done from defence. As an attacking weapon from defensive he is superior to Bartram.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

From the OP:

Not a lot but it's a good sign. His athleticism is his biggest weapon.

Oops...glad I read the whole thing. Thanks.

[sylvinator 96]

Bartram is good defensively but will always have issues on the counterattack. While he has improved in recent seasons, Bartram's position will always be in question where a better option arises. And the drive you talk of Bail could easily been done from defence. As an attacking weapon from defensive he is superior to Bartram.

I'm glad you agree with me.

Yes, they both will end up potentially playing in the defensive half of the ground, but in completely different roles. Bartram a defensive stopper role, Bail a rebounding drive-out-of-defence role. Therefore there is no risk of Bail usurping Bartram's role. Do you think the role that Gilbee plays is the same Dylan Addison? Does Nick Malceski plays the same role as Paul Bevan.

[Bhima 0]

Just on Steph Martin. He ran laps last Friday with Gawn and didn't do any kicking drills, and he didn't look particularly fit (that is they were running pretty slowly). However, yesterday he was training with the main group during the 'ultimate tennis ball' drills and at one point saw an opening up the middle of the field and sprinted 30 metres at top pace before he was caught. His turn of foot was what caught my eye as I've heard he came third in the 100 metres grand final sprint but during games he has always seemed very one paced. He hasn't completed any kicking drills that I have seen in the last two training sessions but must be getting close if he can run at full pace. Would love to see him sprint like that on match day.

James Strauss was looking particularly good also during the ultimate tennis ball drills. He was one of the most impressive players, as he is very quick, very agile and seems to have a good tank. Strauss was taken at 19 in a very strong draft and it was easy to see, from an athletic perspective, why he was taken that high. The question mark, based on what I have seen at VFL and AFL level seems to be whether or not he can improve the defensive aspect of his game as well as his decision making under pressure. He has been hindered by knee and shoulder injuries over the past two years and so I shouldn't be too quick to judge. He wasn't wearing any strapping on his knees or shoulders yesterday and, a bit like Blease, with a good pre-season and no injuries it will be interesting to see how much progress he will make. An excellent player to have in reserve with the talent to make an impact at the highest level.

I'm also not a huge fan of Jamar being able to spend a large amount of time forward if Spencer can fill the second ruck possie. I think we should remember that Jamar's highest value is around the ground, especially as a target when kicking out of defense. Jamar has also taken marks in the forward line while drifting forward as the ruckman, rather than playing as a key forward. He was used predominantly at full forward when Bailey first coached the Dees and it failed miserably. Of course, the team, player, and coach have improved since that time, however I would prefer to see Jamar on the ball where he one all-Australian duties rather than as a forward, and I just don't see him as our saviour in the forward line, but love it when he does occasionally get down there.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Bhima

[Roost It 1,434]

If players such as Martin, Strauss, Spencer, Maric and Blease come on over the next 12 to 24 months then spots in the team are going to be very hard to come by. You can add Tapscott and Jetta as well as pick 12 this year to make 8 possible inclusions. Personally I see the pressure coming down on Bartram, simply due to his disposal. Dunn, Was 2009 his best form?. Then you've got Macdonald, Bail, Jones, Bennell, Petterd all currently deserving of a game. Let's hope they can all stay fit and have a massive preseason as competition for spots is going to make us an even better side.

[GOLF 13]

Can't see any mention of Fitzpatrick. Is he injured? If not, has he put on any muscle or is he still a beanpole?

[Choko 493]

If players such as Martin, Strauss, Spencer, Maric and Blease come on over the next 12 to 24 months then spots in the team are going to be very hard to come by. You can add Tapscott and Jetta as well as pick 12 this year to make 8 possible inclusions. Personally I see the pressure coming down on Bartram, simply due to his disposal. Dunn, Was 2009 his best form?. Then you've got Macdonald, Bail, Jones, Bennell, Petterd all currently deserving of a game. Let's hope they can all stay fit and have a massive preseason as competition for spots is going to make us an even better side.

Except for Jetta and Maric, who I really don't think will make it, I agree. I mean Barts no disrespect, but I think if our best side in 2 years has Bartram in it, we have a problem.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm glad you agree with me.

Yes, they both will end up potentially playing in the defensive half of the ground, but in completely different roles. Bartram a defensive stopper role, Bail a rebounding drive-out-of-defence role. Therefore there is no risk of Bail usurping Bartram's role. Do you think the role that Gilbee plays is the same Dylan Addison? Does Nick Malceski plays the same role as Paul Bevan.

I'm not. Bail can play the role Bartram does with the ability to attack on the rebound with better disposal. You're unnecessarily pidgeionholing Bartram to suit your argument. We need a small defender down back that can defend, make competent decisions under pressure and use the ball well offensively. Bail could potentially do that better than Bartram.

In addition, we have Scully, Trengove, Moloney, Morton, McKenzie, Gysberts, Davey, Sylvia and potentially Blease, Tapscott, Jones, Bennell in the midfield for rotation plus in a year to Viney jnr and other draft picks, Bail might be seeking a solid spot as the smaller defender given the competition in the midfield.

[Steamin Demon 392]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Geez poor Barty is copping a bit of stick on here, Personally his second half of this year was as good as anyone's. The thing about this forum is people start talking about how bad Bartrams disposable is all of sudden it snowballs and then it's taken as gospel. I watched him closely this year and since he started wearing those yellow boots he was outstanding. It's not true to say his decision making and disposal is poor beacuse it simply isn't.

[Inner Demon 1]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Geez poor Barty is copping a bit of stick on here, Personally his second half of this year was as good as anyone's. The thing about this forum is people start talking about how bad Bartrams disposable is all of sudden it snowballs and then it's taken as gospel. I watched him closely this year and since he started wearing those yellow boots he was outstanding. It's not true to say his decision making and disposal is poor beacuse it simply isn't.

Agree wholeheartedly. He's been tarred with that brush and nobody will accept any evidence to the contrary. Now when people watch him and he makes a single mistake the response is, "Ohhhh Bartram you always butcher the footy". It's very annoying.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

He's been tarred with that brush and nobody will accept any evidence to the contrary. Now when people watch him and he makes a single mistake the response is, "Ohhhh Bartram you always butcher the footy". It's very annoying.

I agree with that.

But I am not sure why the other poster needed the Bartram sympathy vote. All thats being argued is that while Bartram has improved over last year there may well be better options in the small defender. I put forward Bail. And Bartrams disposal has moved from problematic to moderate. He still has a fair way to go to claim his disposal skills as much of a strength as his endurance

[Roost It 1,434]

Understand the sentiment but Bartram's disposal under pressure is not his strong suit.

[Inner Demon 1]

I agree with that.

But I am not sure why the other poster needed the Bartram sympathy vote. All thats being argued is that while Bartram has improved over last year there may well be better options in the small defender. I put forward Bail. And Bartrams disposal has moved from problematic to moderate. He still has a fair way to go to claim his disposal skills as much of a strength as his endurance

I think Bail would be wasted stuck deep on a small forward. He's so attacking and fast, really fits the mould of the old-school wingman. Looking forward to his play this year, could be a smokey at a good price in Supercoach.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think Bail would be wasted stuck deep on a small forward. He's so attacking and fast, really fits the mould of the old-school wingman. Looking forward to his play this year, could be a smokey at a good price in Supercoach.

Given the way the game is played today, I thinking skills would also provide us with a wonderful rebounding player out of defence whose speed and use of the ball would really hurt the opposition.

I am also looking forward to his year as I thought he was much improved from his first season at Casey.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,089]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Geez poor Barty is copping a bit of stick on here, Personally his second half of this year was as good as anyone's. The thing about this forum is people start talking about how bad Bartrams disposable is all of sudden it snowballs and then it's taken as gospel. I watched him closely this year and since he started wearing those yellow boots he was outstanding. It's not true to say his decision making and disposal is poor beacuse it simply isn't.

He's improved, but it is still an issue for him. He is in much the same position as Cheney was. Very good 1-1 competitor, able to beat his opponent to the ball, but we can't be sure what happens after. I agree that he's become better, but with guys like Straus out there earmarked for rebounding roles his days could be numbered.

[e25 5]

He still does it.

May not be as regularly as before, but he is still the worst user of the footy on our list.

[rpfc 28,779]

Batram had a very good second half of the season.

He can be a part of the 22 going into 2011.

He still has problems with his kicking and it can be atrocious on occasion.

This doesn't make me a 'robot' or 'just listening to the a common meme'...

I saw it with my own two eyes.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

He's improved, but it is still an issue for him. He is in much the same position as Cheney was. Very good 1-1 competitor, able to beat his opponent to the ball, but we can't be sure what happens after. I agree that he's become better, but with guys like Straus out there earmarked for rebounding roles his days could be numbered.

He's better than Cheney and if it guys like Strauss competing for his position, he's safe. Strauss needs to find the mojo to compete at AFL