Williamstown vs. Casey Scorpions (ABC TV)

[sylvinator 96]

Worst effort ever by a MFC affiliate.

Watched first 3 qtrs on TV.

Firstly, no one played well. But there are 3 guys that I can see are still AFL standard player:

- Jurrah is obviously classy and should be at afl level asap. no delivery for him in the forward line so barely touched it

- Bennel is very clean and looks an afl standard player

- Wona not too sure about him, but i still see something in him. To me he also looked to me an afl standard player

Can't say anything positive about the other players

- Cheney i guess tried hard under seige

- PJ, what the hell i thought he was relatively mobile? He is god aweful, can't take a contested mark to save himself, if it is at his ankles he's out of the contest, crap rucking as well

- Spenser- terrible

- Strauss- looks good with the ball in his hands, but looks pretty bad without it in his hands. He's not a good defender in the sense he doesn't have good defensive skills (spoiling etc) and doesn't think like a defender. I maintain he should not be played at half back. play him in the midfield or wing. We're trying to turn him into a back pocket, it isn't working.

- Maric- i'm very close to giving up on him as a failed pick. There are plenty of players picked at 21 in the national draft that don't make it, he might be one. I can't see him making an impact at AFL level. If people remember how horrible he was in the last AFL game he played, he was the same today

- Daniel Bell- really awesome player. Simply not an AFL standard player, barely a VFL standard player

- Fitzpatrick- youngster, didn't do much, but can't really comment yet

I know Casey have had a great season, but on the MFC players, I think PJ, Daniel Bell and Maric will probably be delisted. And i'm not confident Spenser will even make it.

And can I say, some of those VFL level players are god aweful. Really some terrible terrible vfl players. Of the VFL guys that are often talked up, that panozza guy is shocking. That Stockdale guy looks OK, is pretty quick, but definitely don't see why people are suggesting he's afl standard.

[Whispering_Jack 30,136]

Worst effort ever by a MFC affiliate.

A lot of people have been complaining about Casey games not being televised but in their last two ABC matches they've been flogged mercilessly. The previous Casey game shown on the ABC was last year's elimination final when Collingwood had a massive 100 points plus victory. I reckon losing a final that way was the worst result of any MFC alliance team in this competition (although they only had one MFC listed player that day in Michael Newton).

[deanox 9,922]

don't worry about how well PJ played (or how bad) he will be sitting the next 3-4 out anyway after that bump in the 3rd.

[sylvinator 96]

don't worry about how well PJ played (or how bad) he will be sitting the next 3-4 out anyway after that bump in the 3rd.

Agree. In fact, will never play again for MFC.

It's getting to the point when we might have to look to trade for a ruckman like Sydney like last year (Seaby and Mumford).

ATM, I don't think any of Meesan, PJ and Spenser will make it AFL level.

That leaves Jamar (thank the lord we have him) + Gawn (18 y/o raw kid).

[Jaded No More 68,915]

I'm almost glad I had to have an operation on Thursday which prevented me from going to Williamstown as originally planned.

Even through my drugged-haze that was horrendous.

Although I do see more positives in Strauss than some. He is someone who will always look average at VFL level IMO because of a distinct lack of talented targets around him.

Also I think Fitzpatrick showed a bit of touch for someone his size.

[old dee 23,791]

Watched first 3 qtrs on TV.

Firstly, no one played well. But there are 3 guys that I can see are still AFL standard player:

- Jurrah is obviously classy and should be at afl level asap. no delivery for him in the forward line so barely touched it

- Bennel is very clean and looks an afl standard player

- Wona not too sure about him, but i still see something in him. To me he also looked to me an afl standard player

Can't say anything positive about the other players

- Cheney i guess tried hard under seige

- PJ, what the hell i thought he was relatively mobile? He is god aweful, can't take a contested mark to save himself, if it is at his ankles he's out of the contest, crap rucking as well

- Spenser- terrible

- Strauss- looks good with the ball in his hands, but looks pretty bad without it in his hands. He's not a good defender in the sense he doesn't have good defensive skills (spoiling etc) and doesn't think like a defender. I maintain he should not be played at half back. play him in the midfield or wing. We're trying to turn him into a back pocket, it isn't working.

- Maric- i'm very close to giving up on him as a failed pick. There are plenty of players picked at 21 in the national draft that don't make it, he might be one. I can't see him making an impact at AFL level. If people remember how horrible he was in the last AFL game he played, he was the same today

- Daniel Bell- really awesome player. Simply not an AFL standard player, barely a VFL standard player

- Fitzpatrick- youngster, didn't do much, but can't really comment yet

I know Casey have had a great season, but on the MFC players, I think PJ, Daniel Bell and Maric will probably be delisted. And i'm not confident Spenser will even make it.

And can I say, some of those VFL level players are god aweful. Really some terrible terrible vfl players. Of the VFL guys that are often talked up, that panozza guy is shocking. That Stockdale guy looks OK, is pretty quick, but definitely don't see why people are suggesting he's afl standard.

I went to the game and have to say it was a poor experience, The Casey had a lot of the better Melbourne players out today but it was a poor effort.

I went especially to watch Spencer, Contary to your thoughts I thought he broke even in the first half but was struggling by the end of the third quarter.

Having said that he had a lot of mates, I could not believe the number of times Casey players went to ground the comparison to Willy was amazing!

On todays effort I could not see one MFC player who earnt his spot in the Casy team let alone a spot at Melbourne.

Unless there are injuries we do not know about no one will get in after their displays today.

I would agree with your thoughts above "Sylvinator". Wona looks over weight to me and IMO he has played 3 -4 good games at Melbourne the next two months I think might be make or break for him. He has played little in last two seasons and a lot of players with similar size / ability have arrived at Melbourne and IMO have past him by.

It was Fitzy first game He deserves a lot more time before we will know his true ability and I doubt that JC would have looked good in that side today.

LJ showed up in a few passages but he spent most of the first half in the forward so did not see a lot of the ball, the skills were still there so do not worry about him. He needs 2 - 3 weeks to get match fit.

Strauss I will cut some slack, however IMO, Bell, PJ,Wona and Maric are for the hi jump.

Cheney will only ever be a battler at AFL level.

Spencer! the jury is still out.

[The Fergburger 0]

I watched this game today focusing on Maric and Bell

Firstly, before you have a go at me, take in to consideration that the team got belted today and the conditions did not suit Maric at all. He made countless errors with ball by hand and foot. This was not his fault though as he had nothing to kick to. His work ethic was down this week, but IMO we have to be patient with the kid and give him time.

I've always been a believer in Bell since he's been at the club. His Hunger for the footy today was something that caught my eye. He really had a red hot go and was deservedly named best for casey. Not one other player showed the hunger for the footy that Belly did. His body looked in great shape. The way he bursted into packs and got the ball out was one of the only positives i witnessed during this pathetic performance from Casey. His awareness wasn't exposed today but his disposal which has been criticized at times was in fact very good today. He set up PJ's goal and consistently made the right decision when the ball was congested. I still think he has a future at the Dees. He might be in line for a recall if he keeps up this form.

[Redleg 40,925]

I'm almost glad I had to have an operation on Thursday which prevented me from going to Williamstown as originally planned.

Even through my drugged-haze that was horrendous.

Although I do see more positives in Strauss than some. He is someone who will always look average at VFL level IMO because of a distinct lack of talented targets around him.

Also I think Fitzpatrick showed a bit of touch for someone his size.

Get well soon.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

I watched this game today focusing on Maric and Bell

Firstly, before you have a go at me, take in to consideration that the team got belted today and the conditions did not suit Maric at all. He made countless errors with ball by hand and foot. This was not his fault though as he had nothing to kick to. His work ethic was down this week, but IMO we have to be patient with the kid and give him time.

I've always been a believer in Bell since he's been at the club. His Hunger for the footy today was something that caught my eye. He really had a red hot go and was deservedly named best for casey. Not one other player showed the hunger for the footy that Belly did. His body looked in great shape. The way he bursted into packs and got the ball out was one of the only positives i witnessed during this pathetic performance from Casey. His awareness wasn't exposed today but his disposal which has been criticized at times was in fact very good today. He set up PJ's goal and consistently made the right decision when the ball was congested. I still think he has a future at the Dees. He might be in line for a recall if he keeps up this form.

If todays conditions didn't suit him then it never will. with the ball on the ground all the time a quick small forward should be lapping it up. He should have been mopping up possies and pumping it in forward / kicking goals at will today.

Instead all he displayed was a lack of a work ethic, his inability to keep his feet in the contest, his inability to cleanly pick up the footy under pressure and that he offers nothing else to the team.

Take a look at one fo the blokes he was competing with for a spot in the demons team- Bennell. Still didn't have a great day but worked, showed clean hands, kept running, tackling and putting pressure on, kept his feet and hit targets.

Maric is gone. MFC need to move on from him.

Horrible game to watch. Having played at Willy and watched a few games there, it is one place where the home ground advantage is quite pronounced (not to the tune of 118 points). The windy conditions make it near impossible to execute good skills at times which throws out team balance because players run to a position where the ball would usually be kicked and instead it gets blown around and they get caught out (as evidenced a few times early on with Aussie and Jurrah).

Bell was good today but i believe he has been given chances at the top level and shown that he just isn't quite up to it. Plus the players in the Demons backline at the moment are much better.

Spencer did ok in the body contests in the rucks but other than that did not show much. Big blokes take time (see Jamar) however he is a poor kick and poor contested mark. Should just stay on the rookie list at this stage (given our lack of rucking stocks).

Strauss was poor today as mentioned above re the one on one's. Not sure yet re him although he is the type of running player that can sometimes not look flash at VFL level because the skills of the players around him aren't as good and therefore they don't deliver the ball to him well enough or go to the right positions.

This was the case with Jurrah. Delivery into the forward line was atrocious. I would have hated to be playing there. Don't think MFC really care though, as Bailey indicated in interview, they just want game time into him and then he will return.

Likewise Bennell and Aussie. The skills and delivery of the players around them left much to be desired. Aussie was pretty ferocious with his pressure and tackling which was pleasing at least. Agree he doesn't look fit enough and that may be his problem.

Cheney didn't do his chances any good today.

Fitzpatrick showed a little bit. He just needs to add some muscle to his frame (looked pretty skinny in the arms). Hopefully he stays in the forward line for the rest of the year at Casey and learns to play using his body.

[H_T 3,047]

Harold from neighbours is at the game.

He's always there.

It has suprised me that Casey were sitting on top this year as I dont think their side on paper is that good. That was proven today against a good quality experienced VFL team. Today for mine also proved that we still have a fair bit of dead wood to clear on our list PJ, Maric, Cheney, Bell should all be gone at end of year if out of contract. I am not convinced that either of Spencer or Strauss will make decent AFL players. Strauss has a beautiful kick but what else? The only good points were that LJ and Wonna got through the game unscathed.

Disagree with Cheney. Agree on PJ, Maric, Bell.

I think some of the calls on Spencer & Strauss are so premature, it's not funny.

Those making excuses for Maric, because the conditions didn't suit are blowing hot air. If ever there were favourable conditions for small men on a gale swept Burbank Oval with a centre square glue pot, this was it. Doesn't seem interested.

What today confirmed to me apart from the fact Jurrah got through a "full game" unscathed, was that Bailey can continue working with the likes of Spencer, Strauss, Fitzpatrick, Wonaeamirri, Cheney. Bennell. Whilst the team got absolutely polaxed on the scoreboard, the quality of the Willi/Bulldogs contigent lead by Addison, Ward, Everitt were more efficient and direct in the conditions when required. Bell was smashed in the middle and confirmed to me time and again that he doesn't have it. Wonaeamirri was lively in patches, tackled well, Jurrah whilst quiet, did take a couple of heavy tackles and came out unscathed. Not alot of the ball, but was quite effective. Thrown down back in the last quarter where he got a bit of the ball and roamed forward occassionally following the ball. Was involved in a piece of play where he ran with a bounce or two, kicked it to a one on one contest up forward, which lead to a goal. Was pleased he played the majority of the game on the field. That's one under the belt, regardless.

I thought Fitzpatrick's debut in the Casey 1's wasn't flash, but it wasn't that bad either. It's easy to say that he's colours were lowered, but the entire team got smashed. Kicked a snap goal. Got involved, helped out down back in the last quarter, linked up out of defence. Needs more games, more development undoubtedly, but not hopeless.

[Akum 2,660]

But look at who they were playing against! It was Melbourne's fringe players (plus Jurrah) against the Bulldogs fringe players, and let's face it, some of our fringe players are very very ordinary & will probably struggle next year to make a VFL team. In comparison, half of Willi's 22 - Tiller, Addison, Callan, Hargrave, Ward, Eagleton, Stack, Everitt, Minson, Roughead & Moles - have had very good performances at AFL level. Spencer, for example, rucked against Minson & Roughead.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

In comparison, half of Willi's 22 - Tiller, Addison, Callan, Hargrave, Ward, Eagleton, Stack, Everitt, Minson, Roughead & Moles - have had very good performances at AFL level.

Thats why they are in the VFL.

Worst effort ever by a MFC affiliate.

Easily. Embarrassing given it was 1 v 2 on the ladder. Shameful really. Casey got monstered today. MFC and Casey players ran up the white flag after 1/2 time.

It has suprised me that Casey were sitting on top this year as I dont think their side on paper is that good. That was proven today against a good quality experienced VFL team. Today for mine also proved that we still have a fair bit of dead wood to clear on our list PJ, Maric, Cheney, Bell should all be gone at end of year if out of contract. I am not convinced that either of Spencer or Strauss will make decent AFL players. Strauss has a beautiful kick but what else? The only good points were that LJ and Wonna got through the game unscathed.

Agree.

I understand Maric is contracted for 2011. I would move him to the rookie list at year end. Gives nothing.

With all due respect to KC from Casey (and thanks for his efforts) but PJ being our 2nd best only highlights how poor Casey was. PJ was terrible today.

I cant fathom the concerted and misguided arguments to move Garland forward to bring Cheney into the side as a must have. At best, solid and capable at VFL level but does not look in the same league as the incumbents we have in.

Spencer looked ordinary and Strauss did little. Bennell took a good mark then disappeared.

LJ looks another 3 weeks away at best from rejoining MFC.

I know he has had some injuries this year but Wonna looks sslloowww at VFL level. I am not sure whether they will offer him another contract in 2011.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

He's always there.

Disagree with Cheney. Agree on PJ, Maric, Bell.

I think some of the calls on Spencer & Strauss are so premature, it's not funny.

Those making excuses for Maric, because the conditions didn't suit are blowing hot air. If ever there were favourable conditions for small men on a gale swept Burbank Oval with a centre square glue pot, this was it. Doesn't seem interested.

The day Cheney is in our best 22 is the day we are happy to be a bottom four side. He gets the ball, will take some nice marks has decent body size but his decision making and disposal are deplorable as shown several times today. He is too slow for smalls and too small for talls.

Stating that "I am not convinced" is not writing them off. How would you sum up where Strauss is currently at?

Edited June 19, 2010 by big_red_fire_engine

[jacey 333]

Although I do see more positives in Strauss than some. He is someone who will always look average at VFL level IMO because of a distinct lack of talented targets around him.

It's not Strauss's kick/decision making that is worrying, it's his ability to find the ball in the first place. Without handball receives, he might not touch the ball more then 5 times a game. I've seen him do some decent defensive jobs but i think he's clueless in finding the balance between defence and attack.

I'm a massive critic of PJ and he suxed but he is all heart. Just keeps having a dip but his deficiencies makes him the easiest delisting decision.

Maric's got something but he is someone who you would want to develop on your rookie list rather then a listed player.

[KC from Casey 7,064]

With all due respect to KC from Casey (and thanks for his efforts) but PJ being our 2nd best only highlights how poor Casey was. PJ was terrible today.

Thanks for the compliment Rhino. However, the best player list is not mine, rather it's the list issued by the Casey football department.

My own opinion is that it's almost a waste of time issuing such a list when a team is comprehensively touched up the way the Scorpions were yesterday. I think we have to put the day down as a bit of an aberration. There were a few MFC listed players who still have a way to go to being fully fit to play at this level and there were a few very inexperienced VFL players out there too. Then there was the enormous home ground advantage Williamstown has at this ground. Once they got on top it was always going to be tough.

FWIW my "best" players were about the same as the official list. Bell was one of the few who could hold their heads up reasonably high.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Thanks for the compliment Rhino. However, the best player list is not mine, rather it's the list issued by the Casey football department.

My own opinion is that it's almost a waste of time issuing such a list when a team is comprehensively touched up the way the Scorpions were yesterday. I think we have to put the day down as a bit of an aberration. There were a few MFC listed players who still have a way to go to being fully fit to play at this level and there were a few very inexperienced VFL players out there too. Then there was the enormous home ground advantage Williamstown has at this ground. Once they got on top it was always going to be tough.

FWIW my "best" players were about the same as the official list. Bell was one of the few who could hold their heads up reasonably high.

Thanks for the clarification KC. I share your opinion about the listings. On that basis I would only include Bell and maybe Spencer for contesting the whole day. I was just disappointed that Jurrah aside, some of the MFC performances were a little meek. Notwithstanding the conditions, the ball skills particularly in the 2nd half were poor.

[jayceebee31 761]

The day Cheney is in our best 22 is the day we are happy to be a bottom four side. He gets the ball, will take some nice marks has decent body size but his decision making and disposal are deplorable as shown several times today. He is too slow for smalls and too small for talls.

Stating that "I am not convinced" is not writing them off. How would you sum up where Strauss is currently at?

On current form- Cheney will get a game in the MFC side before Strauss.

Edited June 20, 2010 by jayceebee31

[Demon Head 273]

If you could combine Cheney's hardness at the footy with Strauss' skills you would have a pretty good footballer.

I think the likelihood is that Strauss might succeed ahead of Cheney because he can develop that hardness as his body matures.

If you don't have the natural skills, you have to work and train pretty hard but often you simply don't get there.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

On current form- Cheney will get a game in the MFC side before Strauss.

Where would he play and who would he replace in the team? What players would he reasonably match up on from another side given his lack of pace?

If his current form includes Satruday at Willy then he wont be seeing much AFL.

[H_T 3,047]

Stating that "I am not convinced" is not writing them off. How would you sum up where Strauss is currently at?

Well, given James Strauss has played a mere 2 games at AFL level and he turned 20 last Monday, I am not convinced that he should be written off. He has been playing Casey seniors regularly of late after playing the first couple of rounds of this season in the AFL * . The reports on him (whilst arguably for some might be sugar coated) have been promising and there are some areas of he's game, I think that need fine tuning, as well as getting more strength (key word: development). Whilst our back 6 at Melbourne are providing the team a good defence & rebound, I have no qualms in Strauss trying to earn a spot by improving and developing he's key strings to his game at VFL, instead of following increasing calls for him to be culled at this early juncture.

* = Strauss did miss alot of footy last year due to injury, before returning mid-late season in the VFL.

[jayceebee31 761]

Where would he play and who would he replace in the team? What players would he reasonably match up on from another side given his lack of pace?

If his current form includes Satruday at Willy then he wont be seeing much AFL.

Cheney like all players did not put in a good one against Willy- however I was there watching the game and I would have rated him as one of the best. His performances over the 10 games played would have seen him as the best performed by a MFC player. He could play back pocket or off a half back flank.Could replace Bartram or Bruce.

[H_T 3,047]

Whilst it was a deplorable day at Willy on Saturday for Casey. Cheney was more inclined to get involved than Strauss (which is one area Strauss must improve on). Not sure he could be a replacement for Bartram. (For the small, nippy forward opponents)

Could cover for Bruce, although Bruce would still be a better option at the moment - more adaptable, experience. Not sure about Cheney's endurance compared to Bruce either. I doubt whether Cheney can cover Bruce in that regard.