There's only 1 bloke who can straighten us up forward....

[tez 6]

Ever heard of David Neitz? Yeah, AA CHB to FF, that'll never work! How quickly we forget.

Neitz started chb cos we already had lyon and swartz

neitz was already a forward in his junior days no way is frawley forward material

[Whispering_Jack 30,615]

It was Craig Cameron who drafted Frawley and I remember him telling a group of supporters a few weeks later at a Demonland/Demonology sponsors function that he believed that this player would, when he matured, be capable of fulfilling a number of different roles and that he was sure he was capable of playing forward as well as down back. I don't know if a move forward would work for Chip but we certainly need something extra in attack at the moment. At this point in time when expectations are low, I can't see that it would hurt to try something different. Interestingly, while there was debate going on via this thread and at the ground yesterday, Worsfold moved defender Nathan Brown forward and, lo and behold, he kicked a couple of goals in WCE's seven goal run that broke open the game.

[Footynut 302]

Potentially the worst post I have ever seen. Lets take a potential AA backmen and play him at the other end. Why dont we move Warnock down there as well. Hey we will let in 10 more goals a game but thats ok it will straighten us up.

Talk about a drama...

I think everyone knows this is by far NOT the worst post that has been put on here....

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the idea, there have been some amazingly ridiculous posts that are far worse than this idea.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

My god......

This is what happens when our game plan and team hits rock bottom during pre-season.

A call for our only big bodied backman to be made a forward.... I thought I had heard it all.

Do people understand we have enough forwards who CAN'T kick goals?

Frawley can barely hit a target. How do we expect him to kick goals....

Give it a rest.

I am just as impatient but it looks like we will have to wait for Watts and Jurrah and this will take a couple of seasons.

[Whispering_Jack 30,615]

Could all be a moot point. I'm at the MFC Family Day at Eppworth Hospital Luna Park with the grandkids. James Frawley just limped past with his calf bandaged.

[Nasher 33,617]

Why dont we move Warnock down there as well.

Is that such a stupid idea? Warnock played forward and back at Sandringham before he was drafted and during his early years on the rookie list. He'd offer more forward than Frawley would IMO.

[Wolfmother 182]

Could all be a moot point. I'm at the MFC Family Day at Eppworth Hospital Luna Park with the grandkids. James Frawley just limped past with his calf bandaged.

Thanks for making my morning Jack

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

And just to add something about Bate.... (for some reason the mods closed the game thread)

To Bates Mate and all other die hard Melbourne supporters that seem so narrow-minded and naive when it comes

to our own teams players....

Rather than hearing Melbourne supporters talking up how good Melbourne players are, why don't you go and find some non-biased

footy enthusiast and listen to their opinions on all players in the AFL.

Whilst I understand this forum is not for slagging off players, I would like to express my views on Bate as a player...

Bate is an average footballer who may have a good game here and there.

His weaknesses FAR outweigh his strengths. I don't give a s*#&t that this was a practice match for him and he has had injuries. I was not

expecting a dominant display with 5 goals, 12 marks, number of assists etc etc. All I ask for is that a player at his age, with his experience,

not make the same mistakes as he has always done.

People slag Bell off for having no awareness... Why is it that I never hear this comment made about Bate when he is just as bad, if not worse.

Bate has terrible balance and no acceleration. He has shocking ball handling skills. (Cannot pick the ball up cleanly below his knees).

He is not prepared to block for his teammates.

The only attributes I believe he has is that he can take the odd pack mark and he has a penetrating kick that "can" be damaging when he

decides to play with a bit of consistency.

I believe that is a fair assessment of a non-biased Melbourne supporter on Matthew Bate.

I am sure I will get some replies that won't agree at all with me, but I expect that coming from supporters that really add nothing

to this site except for expressing how amazing every one of our players are.

Wake up.

One last point...

I understand that we have no other option but play some of the dead wood we have in order to put a team on the park. ie (Martin, Spencer, Dunn, Bartram, Miller, Newton)

But I am a realist and I want there to be some Melbourne supporters who agree with me on this site.. The skill level of some, if not most of our players is unacceptable

and these players need to be delisted as soon as our younger more "skilled" draftees from the past few seasons mature.

Let's just hope we have drafted well...

Edited March 14, 2010 by stevethemanjordan

[Felix 92]

the whole team is playing bad football, watching them play last year I just had to walk out of the games because they looked like a under 12's side playing... So disappointing.

BUT once the ball starts making its way into the forward line (on a regular basis) Bate, and co will deliver, he had all the pressure on him last year and that was not fair, he is not a 1 man army.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

It was Craig Cameron who drafted Frawley and I remember him telling a group of supporters a few weeks later at a Demonland/Demonology sponsors function that he believed that this player would, when he matured, be capable of fulfilling a number of different roles and that he was sure he was capable of playing forward as well as down back. I don't know if a move forward would work for Chip but we certainly need something extra in attack at the moment. At this point in time when expectations are low, I can't see that it would hurt to try something different. Interestingly, while there was debate going on via this thread and at the ground yesterday, Worsfold moved defender Nathan Brown forward and, lo and behold, he kicked a couple of goals in WCE's seven goal run that broke open the game.

Jack I was at the same function and that was in answer to someone asking if he could play forward. Did you expect him to say no? You do not fix one area by changing the one settled, most developed area of our structure. Anyone that thinks Frawley will create more goals than he will save is kidding themselves. It is a short sighted fix that will potentially delay longer term planning. As has been said by many now is the time for patience not rash moves. Our backline is developing well and it is important that they continue to develop together. Our midfield probably has the right talent now and we should focus this year on improving our movement and ability to get it inside 50m with a makeshift forwardline. Hopefully later in the year when we hopefully have LJ, Watts and Morton back on the park we can worry about developing a proper forwardline stucture.

Mitch Brown (not Nathan Brown) was drafted as a swingman so it is no suprise he was moved forward.

[jayceebee31 761]

I'd like to see that too, he can mark, is not too bad a kick and has very good anticipation. There are others that can fulfill his role in the backline so why not?

Martin should play in the backline until he learns the game he is playing like a basket baller at the moment. When he plays in the ruck it's like he is in a tip off and he just taps it to a player at his feet who is usually covered by an opponent, he must learn to hit it to someone in the clear.

I tend to agree somewhat. Even before draft time last year,I was screaming for a tall forward. Whilst we have several talls, none xcept maybe Fitzpatrick are given natural forwards. However, I think Gawn will develop into a tall forward/ruckman type similar to a Salmon. Ilike the thought of sending a tall defender to the forward line such as Frawley or Rivers, even not for a full game- similar to the coach of the year- WJ reported in the match against West Coast yesterday where Woosha sent Brown forward for a period and kicked two goals. It is my opinion the better of the two would be Rivers only because I think he is a better kick.We have to do something Bails- so wake up or I'll start advocating WJ to take over as coach.

[2014-Flag 0]

When I spoke to DB at training just before the National Draft I said that we needed a big bodied forward to help Watts and Jurrah. He said mids win games. Mids, mids and more mids is his plan.

In the last few drafts we have Morton, Jones, Grimes, Bail, Scully,Trengove, Blease,Jetta,Gysberts who are all midfield typs. Watts and Frawley are the only KP players selected. Jurrah is not a KP player. At the game today we were seriously lacking in size compared to WC.

Warnock is a good average footballer who was carved up by Natanui in the first qtr. Warnock is just not big enough to take on the elite in the competition. He really isn't a key position player. I noticed today that he Does Not look at the ball as it was coming into the WC forward line. On a number of occassions he had his back to the play just looking at his opponent, he had no idea where the ball was coming from. Result, outmaked, outmarked, outmarked every time. We need a general down back like a Nathan Bock.

We also desparately need a big bodied, strong contested marking forward and a ruckman who can play like an extra mid who can kick goals and take marks. Spencer was useless today, never takes a contested mark, never kicks the ball.

I cannot see how we can win a premiership with what we have at present. Sadly, with the compromised drafts I don't know where these KP players will come from.

I personally think Martin is far better suited to back play than forward. He has the size and the smarts to play well there. I agree with your comments about Warnock. He should take the number two forward not the number 1. River take three.

I certainly think some of our back could play forward. River has some marking skills which reminds me on occasion of Royce Hart (not his kicking skill though. I'd definitely play Garland there, and Jamar and Spencer in the ruck, with Jamar resting at FF. With all our injuries we clearly need to do something to ensure we at least kick a competitive score. Against the Dons and WCE we were nowhere near competitive in front of goal

[jacey 333]

Worsfold moved defender Nathan Brown forward and, lo and behold, he kicked a couple of goals in WCE's seven goal run that broke open the game.

Mitch Brown was always a forward. Looked very promising b4 he did his knee. Nathan Brown of Collingwood is the backman. Mitch was switched back when he recovered from his knee reconstruction.

Matthew Warnock looks a much better forward then Frawley. In that awesome game against Richmond, he looked half decent presenting while James looked like a backman.

[MO FINE 171]

Assuming Garland and Rivers are both right they should come into the team in a fortnight so it's likely that at least one of the players we have inscribed in our minds as "defenders" is going to end up as "forwards". I agree with previous posters who think we need to use some imagination and experiment a little and not allow ourselves to become bogged down by pigeon holing players as one-dimensional robots who can only play one way.

Edited March 14, 2010 by MO FINE

[Swampfox 190]

Nothing wrong with the OP,s suggestion at all

A KPP is a KPP no matter what half of the ground he plays

Most KPP play there junior Football as a FORWARD

Mick Martyn for example was a Full Forward when playing for Norths u19,s

Ray Biffin is a good example in a poor team like we had in his era

Biffin is the only player never to have Hudson kick more than 4 goals on him

Neitz is the last Demon to make it work

Even Robert Flower played the position

But in all cases filling gaps isnt the recipe to win premierships

We are in the early stages of being physically strong enough for our younger KPP to play up the spine

Morton and Watts to name just 2

Like i have said before we are 2 years away

[Guest watts04]

Frawley is looking at a breakout year in the backline and has played well in the preseason so lets keep him there. Great backlines are made through playing year to year together so needs to bond with everyone down there. Think being a bit harsh on Bate as he has good hands, good endurance and a damaging kick. He would kic 30 - 40 goals in a decent side.

The forward line needs to read:

Wonna, Martin (Jamar occassionally), Maric

Sylvia, Watts, Petterd

The missing link is another key/marking forward, unfotuently there is no quick fix but i'm not sold on Martin as a forward. Need to look at a recycled player at the end of the year to help Watts IMO, hence we looked at Thorp...

ie - Leigh Brown, Schultz, Bradshaw, Fev, Podsiadly, Hale etc

[titan_uranus 25,042]

I think the answer to this question (if in fact it is a question) lies in yesterday's match.

When Frawley was on LeCras, LeCras did nothing. When Frawley was moved off LeCras, LeCras came into the game.

Frawley is a very good CHB. He does a sterling job most weeks. He should be left where he is. If we're going to move a defender forward, I'd prefer it be Garland.

[Finks 19]

I do find it amusing how quickly posters lean towards aggression in their replies when they are challenged to think differently.

I still stand by my opinion that we break at half forward coz we don't have a power body with brains playing 45-65m from goal. There is no one else capable in straightening our spine and I would be willing to trial Frawley there.

Until I see him fail in that role, I can't make the call of whether he can play it or not.

If our mids and half backs felt confident in dropping the ball at CHF, we'd be direct in our attack and increase our chance of scoring.

I love Frawley in his current role and have been a fan of his from day one.

I just think we're at a point of our development which could risk an experiment with Frawley at true CHF.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

I do find it amusing how quickly posters lean towards aggression in their replies when they are challenged to think differently.

I still stand by my opinion that we break at half forward coz we don't have a power body with brains playing 45-65m from goal. There is no one else capable in straightening our spine and I would be willing to trial Frawley there.

Until I see him fail in that role, I can't make the call of whether he can play it or not.

If our mids and half backs felt confident in dropping the ball at CHF, we'd be direct in our attack and increase our chance of scoring.

I love Frawley in his current role and have been a fan of his from day one.

I just think we're at a point of our development which could risk an experiment with Frawley at true CHF.

Finks I hope you are not seeing my replies as aggression but moreso frustration at what I have thought through and still consider as complete lunacy. The argument that we have many key backs is mute as none of them at this stage offer the flexibility in match up that Frawley offers. Case in point was made yesterday with Le Cras. Bailey has talked time again about the importance of developing continuity of games with players, not just as a team but as seperate units across the ground as integral to a premiership challenge. Yet you want to experiment with the player that is a key lynchpin in our most developed area of the ground. Frawley has played forward before against Richmond last year. From what I recall his performance was not the reason we nearly won the game. I can appreciate your frustration at our poor forward structure and movement but robbing the area of the ground that we are actually strongest in is not the right formula for long term success.

[titan_uranus 25,042]

I do find it amusing how quickly posters lean towards aggression in their replies when they are challenged to think differently.

I still stand by my opinion that we break at half forward coz we don't have a power body with brains playing 45-65m from goal. There is no one else capable in straightening our spine and I would be willing to trial Frawley there.

Until I see him fail in that role, I can't make the call of whether he can play it or not.

If our mids and half backs felt confident in dropping the ball at CHF, we'd be direct in our attack and increase our chance of scoring.

I love Frawley in his current role and have been a fan of his from day one.

I just think we're at a point of our development which could risk an experiment with Frawley at true CHF.

I think Stefan Martin is a pretty good example of someone who's development has been hampered by switching ends all the time. I don't think moving Frawley away from the backline is going to help him develop, as ultimately I believe we need him in defence. Yesterday we were caught out without Rivers. If we take Frawley out of the defence we're going to get caught out again.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

I would hate to see us ruin our defense and more importantly our defensive run out of desperation for a key forward, because IMHO good defenses win premierships.

So while the idea is not completely crazy, we have to think long and hard about whether robbing Paul to pay Peter is the right thing to do.

For me, Garland is more a natural forward option and I'd be happy to experiment with him down there. Frawley is the sort of kid you build an entire defensive 50 around.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Frawley can barely hit a target. How do we expect him to kick goals....

You need to actually watch him play before coming out an saying that. Frawley can certainly hit a target. He's not a long kick, or a pretty kick. But he's certainly accurate. Kicking to a player and kicking at goal are two different things of course, but saying he can barely hit a target is just plain wrong.

[Whispering_Jack 30,615]

Jack I was at the same function and that was in answer to someone asking if he could play forward. Did you expect him to say no? You do not fix one area by changing the one settled, most developed area of our structure. Anyone that thinks Frawley will create more goals than he will save is kidding themselves. It is a short sighted fix that will potentially delay longer term planning. As has been said by many now is the time for patience not rash moves. Our backline is developing well and it is important that they continue to develop together. Our midfield probably has the right talent now and we should focus this year on improving our movement and ability to get it inside 50m with a makeshift forwardline. Hopefully later in the year when we hopefully have LJ, Watts and Morton back on the park we can worry about developing a proper forwardline stucture.

Mitch Brown (not Nathan Brown) was drafted as a swingman so it is no suprise he was moved forward.

Apologies to all the Nathan Browns of this world for getting them mixed up with their twin brothers but I believe Mitch has been playing mainly in defence lately.

With regard to Craig Cameron's comments about James Frawley soon after he was drafted, I believe he was being quite definitive and he maintained that we shouldn't be too surprised if he was capable of being used in a number of different positions and that he felt he was capable of kicking goals if moved up forward. At the time, he was much lighter framed and Craig thought he might start off on a flank or a wing. I don't know if Craig is allowed to post here now that he's moved on and become the virtual el Supremo at Tigerland but I'm sure some of his old mates might be able to confirm this with CAC1962 (or is it CAC1963?).

On reflection, as much as I'd like to see Frawley tried at CHF (even as a one off), I don't think it's going to happen this year. The NAB Challenge matches were probably the best times for experimentation and I doubt that our FD would take such a big risk in the first round of the season notwithstanding the absence of Buddy and the possible absence of Roughhead.

[Finks 19]

Finks I hope you are not seeing my replies as aggression but moreso frustration at what I have thought through and still consider as complete lunacy. The argument that we have many key backs is mute as none of them at this stage offer the flexibility in match up that Frawley offers. Case in point was made yesterday with Le Cras. Bailey has talked time again about the importance of developing continuity of games with players, not just as a team but as seperate units across the ground as integral to a premiership challenge. Yet you want to experiment with the player that is a key lynchpin in our most developed area of the ground. Frawley has played forward before against Richmond last year. From what I recall his performance was not the reason we nearly won the game. I can appreciate your frustration at our poor forward structure and movement but robbing the area of the ground that we are actually strongest in is not the right formula for long term success.

Red, my comments weren't directed at you, it was more a general observation.

I don't disagree with your argument one bit. I'm simply trying to generate debate with observations made from the last 4 games. Like Whispering, I also believe the chance to experiment may have sadly past us. And yes Red, I am frustrated. Very frustrated.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

Red, my comments weren't directed at you, it was more a general observation.

I don't disagree with your argument one bit. I'm simply trying to generate debate with observations made from the last 4 games. Like Whispering, I also believe the chance to experiment may have sadly past us. And yes Red, I am frustrated. Very frustrated.

We'll have to agree to disagree but either way its good to see you posting. It felt like old times