Malthouse Finally Talks Some Sense !

[hoopla 418]

I never thought I'd stand up and applaud Mick Malthouse !!

But his comments this morning on the threat of "free agency" are absolutely spot on. Clearly free agency would strengthen the powerful clubs at the expense of the weaker clubs - with serious flow on effects for the strength of the competition.

Under free agency , we would not have devoted thread after thread to Luke Ball - he would be training with his new club, Collingwood!!

I think there is an even more fundamental problem with free agency. Tribal rivalry lies at the heart of our game. Progressively free agency would begin to break down club loyalties. There is no more certain way of disillusioning supporters than by setting up a process which encourages their favourite players to look after No. 1 .... and jump ship.

How would we feel now if we knew that there was a fair chance that in 6 or 7 years time Watts , Jurrah , Scully and Trengrove (!) would be snaffled by Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon under a free agency regime?

Free agency is a serious threat to the success of the competition - and all football supporters should let the AFLPA know that money will flow out of the game - and out of the hands of their members - if they try to force it through.

Thanks Mick - for making the point!

Edited November 7, 2009 by hoopla

[Keyser Söze 0]

I never thought I'd stand up and applaud Mick Malthouse !!

But his comments this morning on the threat of "free agency" are absolutely spot on. Clearly free agency would strengthen the powerful clubs at the expense of the weaker clubs - with serious flow on effects for the strength of the competition.

Under free agency , we would not have devoted thread after thread to Luke Ball - he would be training with his new club, Collingwood!!

I think there is an even more fundamental problem with free agency. Tribal rivalry lies at the heart of our game. Progressively free agency would begin to break down club loyalties. There is no more certain way of disillusioning supporters than by setting up a process which encourages their favourite players to look after No. 1 .... and jump ship.

How would we feel now if we knew that there was a fair chance that in 6 or 7 years time Watts , Jurrah , Scully and Trengrove (!) would be snaffled by Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon under a free agency regime?

Free agency is a serious threat to the success of the competition - and all football supporters should let the AFLPA know that money will flow out of the game - and out of the hands of their members - if they try to force it through.

Thanks Mick - for making the point!

Hasn't he just stated the bleeding obvious?

I'm not about to applaud him for not talking rubbish to the media for the first time in his life.

[hoopla 418]

Hasn't he just stated the bleeding obvious?

I'm not about to applaud him for not talking rubbish to the media for the first time in his life.

Fair enough.

It might be bleedin' obvious - but that hasn't stopped the AFLPA from campaigning for it! Influentlal people have to state the bleedin obvious to keep the AFLPA on the back foot

[H_T 3,049]

The link: -

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/free...f-1225795032113

[praha 11,240]

Free agency can't be introduced for another 20 years, unless you want a Premier League-style league, where the same 4 teams are always at the top. The illogical Players Assocation is so one-minded it's not even funny. Yeah, it acts in the best interest of the players, but isn't the position of the competition ultimately just as important as the integrity of the players within that league? How does introducing free agency, and essentially creating a one-sided competition, help maintain an even competition and therefore an even playing field, the very thing the players association is asking and constantly fighting for?

Let's be honest - who would want to play for Melbourne when Collingwood can offer them just as much money, but more exposure and better facilities (as of right now?) As well as a bigger brand and more media exposure?

[titan_uranus 25,045]

This thread should be changed to A Discussion of Free Agency, or something along those lines.

Free Agency is a gimmick, and will destroy the fairness and even playing field the AFL has for so long strived for. I for one would hate to see the AFL become the EPL, with 4 teams dominating, and the others at their mercy.

Free Agency helps selfish players get where they want to go. The current system allows honest players, who want nothing more than to play AFL football, and who regard it as a privilege, not a right, to continue playing whilst ensuring we don't let the rich clubs prosper.

The AFLPA can get stuffed.

Edited November 6, 2009 by titan_uranus

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

And how would you guys feel if you were AFL players?

[praha 11,240]

And how would you guys feel if you were AFL players?

Yeah, but if you just accommodate the player, you're threatening the integrity of the league and therefore the game as a whole.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

If the AFL becomes like the EPL I will give the game away we won't stand a chance.

[H_T 3,049]

And how would you guys feel if you were AFL players?

Understand the players concerns, but there are key stakeholders called "clubs" involved and the key playmaker in the AFL who wants an even competition.

Have the players got it so hard under the current system ?

They are employed by clubs.

I'd be "tickled pink" if I was an AFL player under the current system.

I'm of the opinion that with FA, there would have to be strict criteria with it being implemented. The type of criteria that doesn't jeopardise the current evenness of the competition. In addition, I understand we have the salary cap unlike other foreign codes such as the EPL.

Edited November 6, 2009 by High Tower

[beelzebub 23,383]

'Mickey Mouse'....and "sense" in the same breath......... :lol:

limited free agency will come... either as the initiative of the AFL/AFLPA discussions or as result of legal ramifications.

In all honesty after X number of years surely you are allowed some say in your employer. There would need to be strict criteria but its workable....theres defacto agency at work even as we speak/write. May as well legitimise it and control it !!

[deezzz 0]

Free Agency CAN work because unlike the premier leauge, we have a salary cap, so its not like Collingwood can buy all these uncontracted players because they wiould still need to fit them in the cap. As long as there is a cap the integrity and eveness of the comp shouldnt be compromised.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,234]

Free Agency CAN work because unlike the premier leauge, we have a salary cap, so its not like Collingwood can buy all these uncontracted players because they wiould still need to fit them in the cap. As long as there is a cap the integrity and eveness of the comp shouldnt be compromised.

I would argue that free agency if introduced in the next 3-7 years that we may benefit. Free agency mainly allows mature players to chase success first and dollars second. You dont see many players (Judd aside) who leave a successful club for money, they leave for the chance of success that may have alluded them. If we are as planned close or mid premiership window when this is introduced then it is more likely that we will be appealing to such players.

[grazman 7,451]

And how would you guys feel if you were AFL players?

Wealthy?

[volders 22]

as someone mentioned as long as we have a hard salary cap afl will not turn into the epl. the nfl has both a salary cap and free agency and it has very even competition

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

All this means is that the MFC has got to get its house in order in the next 2-3 years.

Free Agency to some degree will happen. Hopefully after 8-10 years service.

So the MFC have got to be in a strong position to bargain.

I think it's what Stynesy was saying the day we re alligned with the MCC, that we could become one of the worlds biggest clubs.

We have got to sharpen up as a club, Top to Bottom.

And thankfully that is what is occuring by the look of it.

If free agency was around back in the '50's we would have cleaned up, it can be done again....

[e25 5]

As much as free agency has the potential to ruin our great game and the integrity of the league... it is a restraint of trade for the players. No way around it.

[Crystal Dees 372]

And how would you guys feel if you were AFL players?

In one of the smallest worldwide participant sports and being the 100th best in my sport and earning much more than 98% of my countries olympians, I'd feel bloody lucky. Picture this - Leisel Jones has an irreconcilable fallout with Australian swimming officials. Can she still be an olympian elsewhere? No, so a sportsman ranked tens of thousands below her world wide "suffers" by earning $100,000's more but because he only plays 60 minutes a week instead of 80 he feels aggrieved? PLEASE!!!!!!!!! A tad precious me thinks!

[titan_uranus 25,045]

And how would you guys feel if you were AFL players?

Grateful for the opportunity.

as someone mentioned as long as we have a hard salary cap afl will not turn into the epl. the nfl has both a salary cap and free agency and it has very even competition

I'd hate to see the AFL become like the NRL, where players and coaches move clubs mid-season, thereby playing out a year with one club knowing that they'll be somewhere else the next year.

There's very, very little wrong with how the system is now.

[Gooner 9]

Free Agency CAN work because unlike the premier leauge, we have a salary cap, so its not like Collingwood can buy all these uncontracted players because they wiould still need to fit them in the cap. As long as there is a cap the integrity and eveness of the comp shouldnt be compromised.

The idea of free agency can work in the AFL, although it depends on the system that is used.

There are a couple of good examples of free agency in other sports. Take the premier league for example. There is free agency there, although it rarely comes into effect. Free agency in the EPL exists in that players can go anywhere without compensation to their previous club once their contract has expired. However, as clubs rarely get any compensation once a player leaves (there are situations in which compensation is determined by tribunal for youth players etc), clubs always tie players to long term contracts.

I can see the EPL method working in the AFL. It would simply remove the PSD, for all but the delisted players. The few players who enter the PSD could choose their club freely, but players like Ball etc wouldn't go to clubs via the PSD, but by selecting the club that they wanted most due to either the likelihood of success or the money they could earn.

The second sport that has free agency is the American system like in the NBA, in which contracts are held by the league and simply transferred from one club to another. Therefore a club could trade one player to another club with the player only having 3 months of his contract left. The new club receives the player on the same contract terms and with the same contract period left. I don't like this idea, as it means that players can move clubs extremely quickly, and I don't like the idea of a club taking on a player with only months left on his contract. It doesn't give him time to get used to the game plan etc.

[hoopla 418]

The idea of free agency can work in the AFL, although it depends on the system that is used.

I acknowledge that there is free agency and free agency - depending on the system used. I have some sympathy for a player who wants to finish his career in his home state - and perhaps a "free return home" option ought to be considered. Other than that - leave it as it is

In any event the AFLPA are committed to free agency in the literal sense ie after a period of service (presently 7 years) a player is free to go where he wants.

To me it is a nonsense to argue that the salary cap will preserve the evenness of the competition. The reason Luke Ball has not yet committed to Melbourne has almost nothing to do with money. He wants to play finals footy next year - and he wants to be part of a premiership team next year. Put in 7 years service - and if your team is not there or thereabouts - go to a team which is!! Free agency is effectively a feeder mechanism for the stronger clubs. How often would a good player at a strong club use free agency to get to a weaker one?

How quickly would 'dyed in the wool' supporters become disillusioned with players freely swapping clubs? " Don't exaggerate" , you say, " you'll find that players won't take advantage of free agency very often". Well then - don''t compromise a successful system for the sake of a rare exception!!

[Carlos Danger 380]

I agree with the Malt, the richer more dominant teams would thrive in that scenario and that's not what the game needs. Somewhat odd coming from the coach of Collingwood though, they seem to be one of the teams that would certainly prosper from free agency.

[hoopla 418]

Just to add something to the mix.

Luke Ball is a strong intelligent young man. Why is he taking so long to make up his mind about his future? Perhaps he's working with the AFLPA to make the first legal challenge to the draft on the basis that it constitutes an unreasonable restraint of trade.

Perhaps Mick's comments are designed to cover the political ( anti Collingwood) fallout that would follow a successful challenge.

Luke - I trust you are not sufficiently disillusioned to pull a destructive stunt like that

[volders 22]

The idea of free agency can work in the AFL, although it depends on the system that is used.

There are a couple of good examples of free agency in other sports. Take the premier league for example. There is free agency there, although it rarely comes into effect. Free agency in the EPL exists in that players can go anywhere without compensation to their previous club once their contract has expired. However, as clubs rarely get any compensation once a player leaves (there are situations in which compensation is determined by tribunal for youth players etc), clubs always tie players to long term contracts.

I can see the EPL method working in the AFL. It would simply remove the PSD, for all but the delisted players. The few players who enter the PSD could choose their club freely, but players like Ball etc wouldn't go to clubs via the PSD, but by selecting the club that they wanted most due to either the likelihood of success or the money they could earn.

would the EPL system really work in a environment with a salary cap though? I don't think some afl clubs would survive turning into something similar to EPL, we just dont have the supporter base.

I would imagine that the afl would go with a MLB or NFL(I think) type system. In the MLB they rank players in categories and if you lose a player from category A (top 20% of players) you get first round draft picks, if you lose a player from category B you get other draft picks. If you lose uncategorized players you get nothing (standard). In the NFL(iirc) you can nominate players (not sure how many) and if clubs want to target your nominated players you get massive compensation (like 2 first round draft picks). Of course there is still some advantage to bigger richer clubs but if the afl is going free agency I imagine something like that would happen so that big clubs cant rape and pillage smaller, poorer clubs.

[Einstein 1]

A bit of alarmist nonsense being perpetuated on this thread.

Firstly, the form of free agency that the AFL will introduce will be limited. Most likely it will mean that once a player gives 6 or 7 years of service to a club, that player will be able to move to whichever club they decide.

Secondly, the AFL will never resemble the Premier League, even with a form of free anency introduced. Because A, we have a draft and B, we have a salary cap. Both limit the ability that the more powerful clubs have to acquire players. The Premier League has neither of these and this is a crucial point.

Thirdly, the model the AFL looks to is the NFL, not the EPL. Over the last 20 or so years, the NFL has instituted free agency, both unrestricted and restricted, and also the 'Franchise Player Tag'. The institution of free agency in the NFL has not resulted in a Premier League style competition. Rather, over the last decade the NFL has experienced an unrivaled degree of parity. And this is a league where the value of the richest club, the Washington Redskins (1.1 Billion) is double that of the poorest, the Arizona Cardinals ($0.552 Billion), and the Cardinals went within a minute of winning the SuperBowl last season.

The reason is because of the draft and the salary cap. Teams experience periods of success and periods of disappointment. Yes, there are some teams that have achieved sustained success and similarly others that have endured sustained periods of failure. But it is not free agency that has given teams sutained success, bur rather, it is solid drafting and the ability to make shrewd economic decisions on the clubs player list.

A prime example is the Washington Redskins. Over the last decade they have been the biggest spenders in free agency but have nothing to show for it. Just 3 playoff appearances in 10 seasons, for only 2 victories. Over the same period the New England Patriots have made 6 playoff appearances, 4 Super Bowl appearances for 3 Super Bowl Championships. They have done this without big spending, but rather by making good decisions on their player list and drafting well.

Having said all that, the NFL is about to go through an interesting period. It is possible that next season there will be no salary cap in the NFL and there are concerns that once the NFL goes without a salary cap, it will have trouble putting it back in place. So this is obviously something the AFL will want to monitor and ultimately avoid.

Yes, the AFL has to be smart when negotiating a form of free agency with the Players Association. But the fear that the league will degenerate into a Premier League style farce, is without basis. Dont fret people, it wont happen. The AFL wont let it happen.