Demons skipper James McDonald to go on

[H_T 3,049]

Don't forget the All Australian honours.....

[Steamin Demon 392]

I suggest you need to watch the games you have attended, a little closer.

And show some respect - he's our captain.

Let's change our selection criteria to the more respected players get a game over the better ones. On your line of watching the game a little closer, I don't go to the game to stare at the seat in front of me LAUGHABLE.

Yes I respect our captain, What I don't respect is a player wanting to play on when their cooked and part of the blame should go to the MFC not just Maccas.

Bow out gracefully not running around at Casey. James McDonald deserves better.

[IWAP 170]

Let's change our selection criteria to the more respected players get a game over the better ones. On your line of watching the game a little closer, I don't go to the game to stare at the seat in front of me LAUGHABLE.

Yes I respect our captain, What I don't respect is a player wanting to play on when their cooked and part of the blame should go to the MFC not just Maccas.

Bow out gracefully not running around at Casey. James McDonald deserves better.

Look, personally I think he'd be better off retiring rather than playing on.

But I’m not going to get worked up on it - given that delisting him would only free up a 4th round or so rookie spot. I’ve never been involved in a professional sporting club. If the football department think he’s worth having around for on and off-field leadership, then I’ll trust their judgement.

He’s been far from our worst this season.

[Steamin Demon 392]

Look, personally I think he'd be better off retiring rather than playing on.

But I’m not going to get worked up on it - given that delisting him would only free up a 4th round or so rookie spot. I’ve never been involved in a professional sporting club. If the football department think he’s worth having around for on and off-field leadership, then I’ll trust their judgement.

He’s been far from our worst this season.

Agreed, I just had him as a certainty retire from what I had seen this year and letting Robbo go just tipped me over.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Well I have to say I did not see this coming. And I'm a little surprised to see the club is happy to extend his contract, given they've just sacked Robertson.

Whelan, Wheatley, Robertson make three spots available. Given that Dunn and Bartram were dropped this week, maybe they're on the chopping block.

[deeflog 679]

does macca even now where casey fields is? will be over taken this season in the midfield by Scully, Trengrove, Morton, Grimes

This is a decision i think he may regret by june next year

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

I can see why the club still wants him but personally I would have prefered them to keep Robbo instead. I think we still need a target up forward more than a midfielder especially going into a midfielders draft. Jurrah and Watts aren't developed enough yet to be the main targets yet without some help IMO.

I can't understand why McDonald would want to go on, clearly he just can't let it go. He's been awful this season with the exception of 2 of his last 3 games and that's against 2 teams with if not the 2 worst lists in the AFL then definately the 2 worst cultures in the AFL in Freo and Richmond that's not enough to get a contract extention IMO.

He could of gone out on his terms this season, if he goes out on his terms next season I would be amazed. If he does it will more likely mean that we are still on the bottom.

[1858 285]

This was a decision which could have gone either way for me but I understand why he has been kept on. If we look at our midfield which will be younger than ever with the influx of new talent and with a greater rotational pool, leadership will be very important. Our midfield is something that we must get right or we can kiss goodbye a premiership window - this doesn't just mean acquiring young talented players and throwing them in.

My personal view on captaincy is that a good captain is not only a leader in their own right but also an extension of the coach on the ground. If we are going to harness McDonald's leadership qualities then it has to be on the ground as well as off because Bailey will have his work cut out getting all of these kids to come together.

I expect that McDonald will be used sparingly in a complementary role subject to where his body is at throughout the season with the youngsters obviously given priority. If the article is anything to go by, it is a positive situation that both the club and Junior were keen for him to go on instead of him having to be talked out of retirement and IMO is testament that we made the right decision when MFC gave him the captaincy last year.

[Fat Tony 5,256]

I don't think it’s a big issue at all. As I understand it, retaining Junior only prevents us taking on another Rookie listed player. If he wants to play we should let him. I doubt he will be very highly paid.

I am not saying he should be captain next year though. The problem is that we aren't really blessed with too many other alternatives.

[Deeoldfart 8,035]

Let's change our selection criteria to the more respected players get a game over the better ones. On your line of watching the game a little closer, I don't go to the game to stare at the seat in front of me LAUGHABLE.

Yes I respect our captain, What I don't respect is a player wanting to play on when their cooked and part of the blame should go to the MFC not just Maccas.

Bow out gracefully not running around at Casey. James McDonald deserves better.

I doubt that you have any idea what Junior brings to the captaincy role, particularly off the field ........... I certainly don't! The FD is in far and away the best position to make this call, and they have obviously taken full account of it, in coming to the decision that Junior should go around again next season.

Take off the blinkers Steamin D.! Some might disagree, but I would argue that all of the 'list management' decisions made by the current FD have been made with a view to the future / big picture. Why wouldn't this one be the same?

[rpfc 28,543]

I don't think some on here realise how much experience we have moved on since the end of 2007: Pickett (204), Bizzell (163), Brown (146), Carroll (71), Yze (271), White (268), Godfrey (105), Holland (191), Johnstone (160), Neitz (306), Ward(136), Robertson (226), Whelan (148), and Wheatley (134).

That is over 2500 games of experience in a competition where you can only improve by 484 games each year.

With Macca staying next year we will have around 2000 games experience.

What I am saying is that we have, in the Bailey era, always erred on the side of moving players on. If they see Macca with a role to play and he thinks his body can go around again, then the club should be able to make an exception, if you could call it that for the most accomplished player on our list, for the skipper.

[Bingo 305]

I'm happy for McDonald to stay. if you actually have a look at his stats he has no way been a liability to the team.

Either he or Robbo had to go......not that i had anything against Robbo (actually one of my favourite players) but i think they made the right decision.

J-Mac is team oriented, no fuss, standout leader WHO DOES chase, harrass, tackle etc. I'd much rather our young guys learn off J-Mac than Robbo....which only a couple of weeks ago people were saying was a liability. They were saying he only plays for himself, goes for the speccy, lays on the ground and watches the ball get run out of defence etc etc...just because the guy has a video of his retirement and has been in the papers of late people seem to change their tune....

No McDonald won't be around for the next flag....but he is ALOT more important (probably more than you or i will ever know, i have a big feeling he has a massive influence behind the scenes) than Robertson.

[H_T 3,049]

I'm happy for McDonald to stay. if you actually have a look at his stats he has no way been a liability to the team.

Either he or Robbo had to go......not that i had anything against Robbo (actually one of my favourite players) but i think they made the right decision.

J-Mac is team oriented, no fuss, standout leader WHO DOES chase, harrass, tackle etc. I'd much rather our young guys learn off J-Mac than Robbo....which only a couple of weeks ago people were saying was a liability. They were saying he only plays for himself, goes for the speccy, lays on the ground and watches the ball get run out of defence etc etc...just because the guy has a video of his retirement and has been in the papers of late people seem to change their tune....

No McDonald won't be around for the next flag....but he is ALOT more important (probably more than you or i will ever know, i have a big feeling he has a massive influence behind the scenes) than Robertson.

Agree Bingo. Here's a breakdown of McDonald's stats comparing his career v 2009 season. AFL stats - Footywire.

2009 Season------------------------------------- Career

16 ---------------------Games ---------------------233

9.7 ---------------Kicks Per Game ----------------10.0

8.7 --------------Handballs Per Game------------- 7.5

18.4 -------------Disposals Per Game ------------17.5

4.5--------------- Marks Per Game ----------------3.7

0.1 --------------Goals Per Game ------------------0.2

0.1 --------------Behinds Per Game--------------- 0.3

4.7 ---------------Tackles Per Game-------------- 3.7

0.4 -------------- Hitouts Per Game ---------------0.2

3.1 ---------------Inside 50s Per Game ------------0

0.2 --------------Goal Assists Per Game----------- 0

0.3 ------------Goals Contributed Per Game -------0

0.8 --------------Frees For Per Game -------------1.2

1.6 -------------Frees Against Per Game---------- 0.9

If anything he's been better than his average over his career, this season, well marginally anyway.

Edited August 21, 2009 by High Tower

[Steamin Demon 392]

I expect that McDonald will be used sparingly in a complementary role subject to where his body is at throughout the season with the youngsters obviously given priority. If the article is anything to go by, it is a positive situation that both the club and Junior were keen for him to go on instead of him having to be talked out of retirement and IMO is testament that we made the right decision when MFC gave him the captaincy last year.

[1858 285]

I expect that McDonald will be used sparingly in a complementary role subject to where his body is at throughout the season with the youngsters obviously given priority. If the article is anything to go by, it is a positive situation that both the club and Junior were keen for him to go on instead of him having to be talked out of retirement and IMO is testament that we made the right decision when MFC gave him the captaincy last year.

This is the reason why this is a howler !! I am speechless.

What I expect the club to do and what they end up doing are not guaranteed to be the same. However if the club believes that McDonald will aid their process in developing youth then why wouldn't they keep him on? It is not as if they have retained a 33 yr old mid because they think we have a stab at the flag next year, he will be there for guidance one would think and to help share the load over 22 weeks from younger shoulders. The club has obviously applied a cost/benefit analysis to this.

Edited August 21, 2009 by 1858

[Steamin Demon 392]

What I expect the club to do and what they end up doing are not guaranteed to be the same. However if the club believes that McDonald will aid their process in developing youth then why wouldn't they keep him on? It is not as if they have retained a 33 yr old mid because they think we have a stab at the flag next year, he will be there for guidance one would think and to help share the load over 22 weeks from younger shoulders. The club has obviously applied a cost/benefit analysis to this.

Are we that bereft of leaders. The following names will suffice Moloney, Green, Bruce and Davey all are better than Maccas. The best people for the best positions. IMO the footy department are kidding themselves.

[rpfc 28,543]

Are we that bereft of leaders. The following names will suffice Moloney, Green, Bruce and Davey all are better than Maccas. The best people for the best positions. IMO the footy department are kidding themselves.

They have saved one player from the mass cull they have had on since 2007 and they are 'kidding themselves'?

Please...

[1858 285]

Are we that bereft of leaders. The following names will suffice Moloney, Green, Bruce and Davey all are better than Maccas. The best people for the best positions. IMO the footy department are kidding themselves.

This is where the club may beg to differ and I know who's opinion I'll put my trust in. It comes down to whether Bailey thinks he needs McDonald in his effort to shape a next-gen midfield and also off the ground in general, obviously he does so who are we to argue?

[Steamin Demon 392]

I can only assume that your approaching orgasm has befuddled your mind and thinking.

I'd suggest that the major reason Junior has been kept on is because of his leadership. The suggestion that it be taken off him is mind boggling.

Trumping this bit of analysis is the last paragraph. Now I might have this wrong but are you suggesting that 1. It was Junior's choice and 2. Robbo should have been given a choice??

If you are unable to see the difference between Robbo and Junior in their input, discipline and leadership I'd be amazed. Having said that, your first comment amazed me so why shouldn't the second?

If you weren't thinking of Robbo then my apologies, but who were you thinking of??

Footballers !!!!! That is what they are. I'm a leader at my job, So in your opinion I should be pulling on the red & blue each week, [censored] we have 4-5 better players that can lead as good as Jmac. FFS since when was maccas being picked on leadership qualitites alone . The question peope on this forum need to ask is WOULD HE GET A GAME AT ANY OTHER AFL CLUB? If anyone answers yes go and apply for a job at the MFC footy department, Your a shoe in !!!

[Jaded No More 68,967]

I can only assume that your approaching orgasm has befuddled your mind and thinking.

I'd suggest that the major reason Junior has been kept on is because of his leadership. The suggestion that it be taken off him is mind boggling.

Who the hell are you?

I never suggested that we take leadership away from Junior, I simply suggested that he should not be captaining the club next year in an official capacity, rather he should mentor the incumbent captain (whoever that may be). This makes the transition in leadership smoother, it means the new captain has support and it also means that when/if Junior struggles for form he can be sent back to Casey to regain it.

Junior is most certainly being kept around for his leadership qualities, but you can lead without a title.

The decision to continue is his alone. If he wasn't a great leader, I don't think he would be playing next year and that's the reality of the situation. IMO Robbo could make a more meaningful on field contribution in terms of performance, but Junior is invaluable off the field, particularly as we are a very young team. That's why one is staying and the other isn't.

Do I wish that our existing senior players could make their own decisions, as opposed to being pushed out? Yes, of course I do. But that's not always realistic and I completely support the club for making those decisions for them.

[deeflog 679]

Agree Bingo. Here's a breakdown of McDonald's stats comparing his career v 2009 season. AFL stats - Footywire.

2009 Season------------------------------------- Career

16 ---------------------Games ---------------------233

9.7 ---------------Kicks Per Game ----------------10.0

8.7 --------------Handballs Per Game------------- 7.5

18.4 -------------Disposals Per Game ------------17.5

4.5--------------- Marks Per Game ----------------3.7

0.1 --------------Goals Per Game ------------------0.2

0.1 --------------Behinds Per Game--------------- 0.3

4.7 ---------------Tackles Per Game-------------- 3.7

0.4 -------------- Hitouts Per Game ---------------0.2

3.1 ---------------Inside 50s Per Game ------------0

0.2 --------------Goal Assists Per Game----------- 0

0.3 ------------Goals Contributed Per Game -------0

0.8 --------------Frees For Per Game -------------1.2

1.6 -------------Frees Against Per Game---------- 0.9

If anything he's been better than his average over his career, this season, well marginally anyway.

these stats stagger me, i thought he would have been well down this season, but i still think he has made the wrond decision

[1858 285]

Footballers !!!!! That is what they are. I'm a leader at my job, So in your opinion I should be pulling on the red & blue each week, [censored] we have 4-5 better players that can lead as good as Jmac.

Again, Bailey obviously begs to differ.

FFS since when was maccas being picked on leadership qualitites alone .

I don't see how you can make such a call. Leadership aside, the club wouldn't pick McDonald if they didn't think he would be able to play to a required level or such that he was being given a "charity" spot in the side. Not a good message for the players and not a good situation to keep a player.

The question peope on this forum need to ask is WOULD HE GET A GAME AT ANY OTHER AFL CLUB? If anyone answers yes go and apply for a job at the MFC footy department, Your a shoe in !!!

We are NOT any other club and quite frankly that question gets bandied around from time to time too often about players with little regard to context. We are MFC and we have our own priorities and goals and it would not be prudent by the club to not ensure we have the best possible group of young players as we go forward. Given the circumstances, the MFC brains trust beleives that he is good enough to play for our team and that is all that matters - but if you really want a team I'll say Port, I'll take McDonald over Josh Carr atm. McDonald is not going to be consistently cutting it up next year, you don't expect that from a 33 yr old but that isn't the point. He can play at a good level though as we have seen in the last month. We are talking one more year here not a 3 yr contract. He is on the veterans list ffs so the cost is minimal for such a potential gain with our list going forward. I admit that I am a touch surprised at how keen the club was to re-sign him but that's the point isn't it? - I'm on the outside and they are the inner sanctum and if they were that keen to sign him then he must be doing something right and play a very important role that many of us may not understand.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

If you think taking the Captaincy off someone doesn't take "leadership" away from them we are on different planets. You're joking, right??

And if you think Junior just said to the club "I'm playing and it's my decision I don't care what you want" you've got no idea of the delisting process

It's quite obvious that the decision to play on has been left up to Junior, otherwise the club would have tapped him on the shoulder alongside Robbo, Whelan and Wheatley. If he wasn't a great leader would he still be playing next year? IMO no.

Taking the captaincy away from someone does not take leadership away from them, it removes a title. If you believe that leadership is dependent on an official title, than I think you don't understand the concept of being a leader.

Would anyone respect Junior less? would Junior stop leading from the front? Of course not.

All I'm suggesting is that we remove the pressure away from both Junior and the football department by taking away that official title that makes both parties bound to perform to a certain level, which realistically Junior may struggle to do given his age.

It's also a great opportunity for a younger player such as McLean, Moloney or Davey to take over the captaincy next year without the added pressure of being a sole leader.

And I acknowledged the fact that Robbo does not possess the same leadership skills, which is why he is not sticking around. So what exactly was the point of the rest of your post?

[H_T 3,049]

It's quite obvious that the decision to play on has been left up to Junior, otherwise the club would have tapped him on the shoulder alongside Robbo, Whelan and Wheatley.

Jaded, I can't prove it, but I doubt the decision to play on for Junior was left entirely up to him. I'm sure the club would have been privvy to the decision. The club is always greater than the individual. Once again I can't prove it, as I'm not a "fly on the wall" within the FD/club.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

I honestly didn't think that I had to point out that the club wouldn't keep Junior if they didn't want to

However the decision to play or to go was left up to Junior and the club was obviously going to be satisfied with either outcome. But lets be honest, if Junior wasn't a great leader, he wouldn't have had the luxury of choice. He would have been forced to retire.