Interesting article on crikey.com.au

[Rogue 585]

Is Irving on board for debt demolition month?

:D

[Whispering_Jack 28,089]

Not sure if I have set short cut correctly but 'article' is an interesting read

http://www.crikey.com.au/Media-Arts-and-Sp...-Melbourne.html

Go Dees

Mod Edit: And before anyone asks again the unnamed ruckman was Dean Irving who played with WCE before coming to MFC.

Laughed my head off reading this article which I thought at first was a satirical piece aimed at Comedy Channel audiences. Happell must think that the football public and the majority of Melbourne supporters all have memories like a sieve and are prepared to swallow any drivel that's served up to them.

Happell is so off the mark that it's not funny but if he's up to it, I'll debate the merits of the alleged factual parts of his article any day of the week at any venue provided all proceeds go to the Melbourne Football Club Debt Demolition.

Just for starters Charlie boy, Dean Irving would be the first to admit that when he came to Melbourne in 1994 he was no champion - just a good ordinary footballer who (with all due respect to him) wouldn't be fit to polish Brownlow Medallist Jimmy's boots if we're talking in terms of quality AFL ruckmen. The adage in those days was that West Coast never gave good players away and that applied in Irving's case (he appeared once for the Eagles in 1993 before they let him go).

Contrary to what Happell says, the club was not "the most shambolic excuse for an AFL club imaginable". If he would bothered to check his facts (which is what one expects from any journalist worth his salt), he would have discovered that Melbourne was travelling quite well in 1994 - in fact, the Demons made the preliminary final that year (which they lost aginst the ultimate premiers in Perth) and their finals victories over Carlton and Footscray were magnificent and very far from shambolic. Can I suggest that Happell picks up a videotape of the games in question and studies them carefully because the team played exquisitely in those games? Jimmy polled 7 votes in the Brownlow that year; how did big Dean go?

So let's look at the respective records of the players concerned during the time in which Happell infers that Jimmy got a free ride as far as being selected over the hapless Irving whose main claim to fame at the club was that he was hospitalised in 1997 after he was bitten by a spider.

Irving played 8 games in 1994, 6 again in 1995 and had a big year in 1996 with 9 games in a year when the club was badly hit by injury. In 1997, he had two games before he was given the flick. With a record like that most AFL footballers would be expecting the bullet and Irving got it - as Happell mentioned, he was replaced on the senior list by a rookie in Russell Robertson. Anyone familiar with Robbo's record after that would have to agree that the decision to do so was more than vindicated.

Meanwhile, Jimmy Stynes won the Bluey Truscott Medal in 1995, 1996 and 1997 (to go with the one he won in 1990. Yet Happell's twisted scenario suggests that an injury striken Jimmy Stynes wasn't carrying his weight and some mysterious cabal (not to mention the spider) was working to keep Irving out of the team.

Absolute baloney!

The article is an insult to one of the club's greatest - a man who will be remembered at the Melbourne Football Club long after names like Irving and Happell will be forgotten. It's also an insult to a respected football person in Neil Balme who coached the side during this time as well as the other well respected club icons whose reputations this lowly hack who has no credibility on the subject tries to besmirch. Interestingly, Connolly was at the club long before Jimmy became President and it was the old admin of "non-mates" that enquired about the availability of Schwab when Schwab got the chop.

His article isn't worth a pinch of drek.

[Guest Schtacker]

Laughed my head off reading this article which I thought at first was a satirical piece aimed at Comedy Channel audiences. Happell must think that the football public and the majority of Melbourne supporters all have memories like a sieve and are prepared to swallow any drivel that's served up to them.

Happell is so off the mark that it's not funny but if he's up to it, I'll debate the merits of the alleged factual parts of his article any day of the week at any venue provided all proceeds go to the Melbourne Football Club Debt Demolition.

Just for starters Charlie boy, Dean Irving would be the first to admit that when he came to Melbourne in 1994 he was no champion - just a good ordinary footballer who (with all due respect to him) wouldn't be fit to polish Brownlow Medallist Jimmy's boots if we're talking in terms of quality AFL ruckmen. The adage in those days was that West Coast never gave good players away and that applied in Irving's case (he appeared once for the Eagles in 1993 before they let him go).

Contrary to what Happell says, the club was not "the most shambolic excuse for an AFL club imaginable". If he would bothered to check his facts (which is what one expects from any journalist worth his salt), he would have discovered that Melbourne was travelling quite well in 1994 - in fact, the Demons made the preliminary final that year (which they lost aginst the ultimate premiers in Perth) and their finals victories over Carlton and Footscray were magnificent and very far from shambolic. Can I suggest that Happell picks up a videotape of the games in question and studies them carefully because the team played exquisitely in those games? Jimmy polled 7 votes in the Brownlow that year; how did big Dean go?

So let's look at the respective records of the players concerned during the time in which Happell infers that Jimmy got a free ride as far as being selected over the hapless Irving whose main claim to fame at the club was that he was hospitalised in 1997 after he was bitten by a spider.

Irving played 8 games in 1994, 6 again in 1995 and had a big year in 1996 with 9 games in a year when the club was badly hit by injury. In 1997, he had two games before he was given the flick. With a record like that most AFL footballers would be expecting the bullet and Irving got it - as Happell mentioned, he was replaced on the senior list by a rookie in Russell Robertson. Anyone familiar with Robbo's record after that would have to agree that the decision to do so was more than vindicated.

Meanwhile, Jimmy Stynes won the Bluey Truscott Medal in 1995, 1996 and 1997 (to go with the one he won in 1990. Yet Happell's twisted scenario suggests that an injury striken Jimmy Stynes wasn't carrying his weight and some mysterious cabal (not to mention the spider) was working to keep Irving out of the team.

Absolute baloney!

The article is an insult to one of the club's greatest - a man who will be remembered at the Melbourne Football Club long after names like Irving and Happell will be forgotten. It's also an insult to a respected football person in Neil Balme who coached the side during this time as well as the other well respected club icons whose reputations this lowly hack who has no credibility on the subject tries to besmirch. Interestingly, Connolly was at the club long before Jimmy became President and it was the old admin of "non-mates" that enquired about the availability of Schwab when Schwab got the chop.

His article isn't worth a pinch of drek.

post of the century WJ

4 Blueys, 2 AAs and a Brownlow

[beelzebub 22,308]

People may well laugh at the idea of a Hollywood at Melbourne but as an observer.and in that context only it did seem like there was definitely an inner sanctum.

You can still be a shambles and get a few results on the board..what happens if there is no infrastructure or culture to sustain anything of note.. Oh..whats that...we didnt did we !!

So many are quick to dismiss..to give a holier than thou slant on history... History is black and white.. and ours is far from rosey.. I Suggest a few people take a decent doese of reality pills.

yeah this Jerk isnt the best of the crop...that doesnt necesaarily discredit all of what he has written !!

After all..we are such a successful club huh !! with no signs of disarray or controversy??

[Whispering_Jack 28,089]

People may well laugh at the idea of a Hollywood at Melbourne but as an oberver.and in that context only it did seem liek there was definitely an inner sanctum.

You can still be a shambles and get a few results on the board..what happens is there is no infrastructure or culture t sustain anything of note.. Oh..whats that...we didnt did we !!

So many are quick to dismiss..to give a holier than thou slant on history... History is blac kand white.. and ours is far from rosey.. I Suggest a few people take a decent doese of reality pills.

yeah this Jerk isnt the best of the crop...that doesnt necesaarily discredit all of what he has written !!

After all..we are such a successful club huh !! with no signs of disarray or controversy??

True but people like Happell were no doubt booing loudly when Stynes dismissed Paul McNamee after such a short period at the helm, yet he has no compunction about sticking the boots into Jimmy's administration after just over a month. Even if you accept this notion of a Hollywood cabal existing in the mid 1990's, isn't it possible that the people involved have matured with age and that they accept the very serious responsibility they've undertaken in precisely that vein?

[beelzebub 22,308]

We better hope so !! hey !! Still I'll be happier when we have an idea about this "plan" and such.

Ra-rahing and scarf waving dont a resurgence make. I have no doubt Jimmy has his ideas. I also have no doubt we didnt field our best teams at times.

We need to understand we have no second chance now. Yes...we had better grownup from the 90's ..hadnt we !!

[dreamin' man 0]

Charlie Happell's a former Age sports editor and a top journalist. No barrow to push. Wouldn't be too dismissive of this story. Think, for what it's worth, that he makes some good points.

[Rogue 585]

yeah this Jerk isnt the best of the crop...that doesnt necesaarily discredit all of what he has written !!

I tend to agree with the latter part of that.

[LeBron James 41]

We better hope so !! hey !! Still I'll be happier when we have an idea about this "plan" and such.

You missed that letter he sent out to all members?

[Rogue 585]

You missed that letter he sent out to all members?

Outline the plan to me.

Telling me we have five subcommittees isn't a plan

[Whispering_Jack 28,089]

Charlie Happell's a former Age sports editor and a top journalist. No barrow to push. Wouldn't be too dismissive of this story. Think, for what it's worth, that he makes some good points.

I think you're dreamin man and I don't give a rat's tossbag about what Happell's been in a former life although it's interesting that he may have been close to a former CEO of this club who was terminated not that long ago.

The article is a sloppy piece of journalism. It takes a scattergun approach attacking everything about the Melbourne Football Club, past and present without substantiating claims made with anything that remotely resembles evidence. It's a really bitter attack and to colour the article by spending 50% of the space allocated to him on the Dean Irving beat up is proof that the whole thing is a waste of that space.

We have a board that has taken on the enormous task of rebuilding our club. Clearly, they have to achieve that in an arena where there is no shortage of snipers willing to attack them on the flimsiest of grounds. If you check out the club's website, you'll find a list of the current board members and their cv's. Have a look at their names, what they have achieved and what they do in their business lives and tell me how many of them are really "yes men" who would allow themselves to be subservient to this so-called Hollywood Boulevard that may or may not have existed some dozen years ago in totally different circumstances to those of today.

[LeBron James 41]

Outline the plan to me.

Telling me we have five subcommittees isn't a plan

He explained what the aim of each subcommittee was, and the the first priority was reducing debt.

[Diablo 1]

I think you're dreamin man and I don't give a rat's tossbag about what Happell's been in a former life although it's interesting that he may have been close to a former CEO of this club who was terminated not that long ago.

The article is a sloppy piece of journalism. It takes a scattergun approach attacking everything about the Melbourne Football Club, past and present without substantiating claims made with anything that remotely resembles evidence. It's a really bitter attack and to colour the article by spending 50% of the space allocated to him on the Dean Irving beat up is proof that the whole thing is a waste of that space.

We have a board that has taken on the enormous task of rebuilding our club. Clearly, they have to achieve that in an arena where there is no shortage of snipers willing to attack them on the flimsiest of grounds. If you check out the club's website, you'll find a list of the current board members and their cv's. Have a look at their names, what they have achieved and what they do in their business lives and tell me how many of them are really "yes men" who would allow themselves to be subservient to this so-called Hollywood Boulevard that may or may not have existed some dozen years ago in totally different circumstances to those of today.

That is a fierce, and quite brilliant riposte WJ. Hard to disagree with anything. Particularly the snipers.

[the pearl 29]

People may well laugh at the idea of a Hollywood at Melbourne but as an observer.and in that context only it did seem like there was definitely an inner sanctum.

The carpark at the Junction Oval used to look like a luxury car yard!

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,629]

[quote name='Whispering_Jack'

Typical eloquent, thoughtful, and knowledgeable response, Jack. I'd love you to add it to the responses on "Crikey".

[Rogue 585]

He explained what the aim of each subcommittee was, and the the first priority was reducing debt.

I'd suggest that fixing the finances, finding a home, building around our youth, marketing the club better, and having good relationships with key stakeholders are all goals (or as you put it, aims).

I'd label a plan the 'how', and there was little of that, apart from Debt Demolition month (previously announced), and the fact we had subcomms based around our five 'pillars'.

Fwiw, someone pulled out a quote from Harris that showed the goals of the old guard were quite similar - they labelled four priorities, and those four priorities form part of the new guard's five pillars.

I think we'd all agree that the five focus areas are important, and I think we'd all idenfitied that they were key issues that needed to be addressed.

It's great to know that Board's identified them, but creating a plan that will make us successful in these areas is something different altogether.

While assigning Directors to different areas as part of subcommittees is a sensible move, I don't think that's what bb's referring to when he says he'd like to know the plans of the Stynes Board.

Hope that makes sense

[darkhorse72 1,755]

At the dinner in the West before the dockers game, Dean Irving was in attendance so I don't think he harbours any ill feelings.

[dreamin' man 0]

I merely pointed out that Happell is no blow-in journalist & I thought when I read crikey yesterday that he had made some good points. (I'm pretty sure he has no conneection w. Harris). I -- & other Melbourne supporters -- are embarrassed by the way McNamee was treated. I think Mike Sheahan was right when he wrote "Melbourne has treated former chief executive Paul McNamee shabbily", though I'm sure mention of that will just set off some bitter anti-journalist rant on here.

In answer to the criticism "Classic Crikey" can I direct you to Greg Barns' "a grand old flag not a bottle of shampoo" from earlier this year:

http://www.crikey.com.au/Media-Arts-and-Sp...of-shampoo.html

I think it's the best thing written about the club this year. I am right behind Jimmy & hope he can restore pride to our club.

I didn't realise that you had to be a pollyanna to post here, so will desist.

[Chelly 749]

I merely pointed out that Happell is no blow-in journalist & I thought when I read crikey yesterday that he had made some good points.

What are the good points he made?

[Freddy Fuschia 666]

If that appointment goes ahead, Melbourne’s reputation as the most insular, inward-looking AFL club is all but assured. Indeed, if there was a league ladder for nepotism and cronyism, Melbourne would be several games clear at the top and coasting towards the premiership.

Strangely enough, the AFL's most insular, inward-looking club is Geelong by a long street. Lots of cronyism and in breeding (they even have Billy Brownless on the payroll) and guess what?

They're the most successful club in the AFL ATM!

[Demon3 2,541]

that is by far one of the worst article's i have ever read. It smacks of someone picking pieces from a bygone era and trying to create headlines. Thats the problem with free speech, every twit can have their say.

Grain of salt... The real supporters know that the mobilising of ex greats is a major boost for our club.

[beelzebub 22,308]

just out of curiosity..of all those lampooning such a stance( as per article ) ..how many were old enough to watch the dees in the 80's and 90's ??

[H_T 2,941]

I think you're dreamin man and I don't give a rat's tossbag about what Happell's been in a former life although it's interesting that he may have been close to a former CEO of this club who was terminated not that long ago.

Whilst I agree, I can't help notice you've been taking some tips from Malcolm Blight - nothing wrong with that - had me chuckling

The article is a sloppy piece of journalism. We have a board that has taken on the enormous task of rebuilding our club. Clearly, they have to achieve that in an arena where there is no shortage of snipers willing to attack them on the flimsiest of grounds. If you check out the club's website, you'll find a list of the current board members and their cv's. Have a look at their names, what they have achieved and what they do in their business lives and tell me how many of them are really "yes men" who would allow themselves to be subservient to this so-called Hollywood Boulevard that may or may not have existed some dozen years ago in totally different circumstances to those of today.

Correct.

Re: Board's Plan: The plan was clearly outlined by Stynes and the board. For those who want to find the finest print of details, put your nomination up for the elections and join the board! Don't quiver and let off steam in this medium because you aren't privvy to it.

[harry 1]

Let's be rational about this. This article is making two central points. The first is that the playing group was divided during the mid 90s between an 'in' crowd and the rest. The second is that this same 'in' crowd is now assuming control of the club to its detriment.

First point. To be honest, none of us can really say if the playing group was divided during this time. We weren't playing. In fact, I'd bet any money that you could ask numerous players who were on the list during that time and receive different responses on this. The fact is, footy clubs are big places. Matthew Lloyd said the other day he had played with no few than 100 different players during his career. It is inevitable that people who have played together for a decade will have a stronger bond than someone who's been there three weeks. It is also inevitable that people who aren't getting a game may become bitter and start attributing it to the fact they aren't part of the 'in' crowd. What we do know is that those players he mentions dragged this club out of the wilderness. Sure, we've never achieved the ultimate success, but no club apart from Essendon and West Coast has made the finals more than us in the last 20 years. We went quite close to winning flags in the late eighties and in 98. Hardly a 'shambolic excuse' for a football club.

Second point. Imagine people playing football for a club and then going on to work for them once they've finished playing. Furthermore, imagine they were friends and shared a common bond and passion to see that football club succeed. Wow, what a novel notion. What nepotism! I think we should find people who don't care about the club and who don't like each other. This talk of 'cabal' is [censored] garbage if you ask me. Every club has former players on its books. Does anyone accuse Carlton of being a cabal because Kernahan and Ratten used to play together? We don't know how the new regime is going to go. And God help us if they fail. But to write them off because some of them used to play together is nonsensical.

[Neita3000 37]

How could Austin's dad joining in on the celebration be a publicity stunt. Lol we won by 1 point with 40 seconds to spare. Must have some pretty quick thinking publicists down at the club