Adelaide v Melbourne - Match Thread

[rpfc 27,572]

I absolutely disagree.

You put your best team on the park each week and Nathan Carroll should be one of the first picked.

What confidence does it give any footballer (or supporter)to see Carroll dropped for NO reason?

There is no communication from the club just speculation from trusting supporters.

To have Rivers injured yet again and to play Bell while dropping Carroll is bad coaching.

This total trust in bailey has hairs on it for mine.

We have won 6 of the past 31 games and our talent is in our youth.

Let's give them a run and look to the future because the present is doing nothing. Carroll is a good fullback in a good team as he showed in 2006 but cannot run with the ball and is slower than the younger blokes, he isn't as smart as Rivers and his height (191cm) doesn't allow him to play on the resting ruckman or a Tippett like forward.

With that said the 24 and younger brigade was 17 today, which is alot, but that is where we are at right now.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

PJ is filling in till Stef Martin is ready

While Jamar settles himself in the team with his one handpass...

[Doggo 32]

I absolutely disagree.

You put your best team on the park each week and Nathan Carroll should be one of the first picked.

What confidence does it give any footballer (or supporter)to see Carroll dropped for NO reason?

There is no communication from the club just speculation from trusting supporters.

To have Rivers injured yet again and to play Bell while dropping Carroll is bad coaching.

This total trust in bailey has hairs on it for mine.

Carroll would have been murdered by Tippett today.

PJ did quite well given the circumstances; it was his first game back from injury, his first game playing in defence since the 1st NAB cup match, he was the 2nd most experienced player in the defensive unit (behind Bell), and Adelaide were delivering the ball cleanly and with ease into the forward line.

Tippett kicked 4.1 from just 7 disposals & 3 marks, but he only beat PJ one-out in a marking contest to goal once on the day, when PJ was taken under the ball and fell at the last moment of the contest 10m from goal. I think out of Tippett's 4 goals, 2 came from lead-mark-goals (one courtesy of a block off the ball on PJ we didnt see a replay of, the other an unstopable low pass out in front), 1 from the aformentioned marking contest where PJ lost his feet, and the other a ground contest where PJ went up to help his teammate in the marking contest and Tippett stayed down and crumbed a goal, i think. Hardly a dominating performance as the news would have you think. PJ had 8 1%'rs today, a large number of those would have been defensive spoils overhead, where Carroll would have been less effective due to his height.

Given the way in which the ball was coming into their forward 50, it could have been much MUCH worse going in with the undersized Carroll on Tippett. Tippett didnt hurt us in the air that much today, and PJ had a big say in that. The match up meant we weren't as exposed to long high kicks to Tippett one-out. I'm afraid had we picked Carroll over PJ, Tippett could have had 6 or 7 goals, and really arrived at AFL level.

I haven't agreed with everything Dean Bailey has done this year, but i think he took the right path today and made a smart match-up selection, and a decision for the future, to pick PJ over Carroll.

[drdrake 3,045]

Player development is the number 1 priority for th MFC. As a few posters have stated playing Yze, Holland and Carroll would of had little difference, we still would have lost by 50+ points. But what I saw today wa encouraging. Garland, Warnock, Frawley, Bell and PJ didn't do much wrong the lack of pressure through the middle was there biggest problem. Buckley had his best game for the club, Aussie keeps getting better, Morton will be a jet. Jones is a good player and same with Brock, both need to deal with tags but this will come. Valenti looked OK, Moloney tried hard may be a little to hard.

Today was the first game this year which all our young players showed something for the future. Always upsetting when we lose but excited about watching these young players develop over the next 16 weeks. We do need though a high quality tall forward and another highly skilled quick midfielder

[Damo 3,004]

Players are always dropped for a reason Franky and I've never seen it written anywhere that a coach needs to explain every selection decision.

Thanks for that. Blind faith isnt enough for me.

Bell plays as a small defender so I'm not sure why you'd compare him to Carroll.

I compare him because Carroll can play football. And I disagree with your view of Bell. He does not always take a small defender.he takes a mid sized forward in my view.

I realise you will not let a criticism of Bailey slip through without a dig, good natured or not.

But the decisions the coach make dont sit as well with me as they do with you.

I believe the reason we won last week was because he allowed the players to trust their own judgement after half time and just play football. He was indignant at games end because his master plan was shown to be the sham I believe it is.

I believe he didnt want to win today and one way to ensure this was to cut Carroll. i wouldnt have been so peeved if Carroll didnt travel to Footy park and wasnt available.

I feel sorry for those members who went today and the self satisfied defense of our "tactics" in playing duds and trust in the mastermind coach get so far up my frock I fair dinkum dispair!

[Doggo 32]

I believe he didnt want to win today and one way to ensure this was to cut Carroll. i wouldnt have been so peeved if Carroll didnt travel to Footy park and wasnt available.

Carroll is a good, solid AFL player at best.

He was in no way the dfference between us winning and losing today.

In fact, i think things would have been worse had he played instead of PJ. But i've said that already in other posts...

[Damo 3,004]

In fact, i think things would have been worse had he played instead of PJ. But i've said that already in other posts...

OK. You are dogged.

I disagree. Its absolute bollocks that PJ, whom I really like, could have been a better bet in the back line than Carroll.

PJ isnt a defender. Hows that?

[Doggo 32]

OK. You are dogged.

I disagree. Its absolute bollocks that PJ, whom I really like, could have been a better bet in the back line than Carroll.

PJ isnt a defender. Hows that?

As i've said already, it was a size match-up more than anything. PJ looks like a smart, disciplined enough player to stick to a given role. Today his role was to spoil Tippett and block his run wherever possible, and he stuck to that task pretty well. Tippett is only young, but the kid has all the makings of a star player. PJ did a good job.

Things could have gotten seriously ugly with Carroll (190cm) on Tippett (201cm), a match-up easily exposed one-out.

Because of PJ's size (199cm), the match-up between Johnson and Tippett was not one that could be so easily exposed, and IMO a better bet. Carroll may be a better, more experienced defender, but he is simply 6cm or so too short for the match up. PJ's not naturally a defender, but has shown some ability to pinch hit in that position in the past. Today was probably his first full game at FB, and he did ok in a side that got belted. Credit to the kid.

He probably wont have to play down back too often this year (given Jamar is likely to be dropped this week), or at least until we play the Pie's (if Ben Holland is not picked to play on Anthony Rocca). But its good to know we have an option for the monster forwards if needed, other than Holland. Martin has shown glimpses at Sandy, but is a long way off still, and Carroll's been fighting above his weight for years.

More of a worry today was the inability to cover the many agile, strong marking, medium sized forwards they had, like Goodwin, Jericho, Burton and Porplyzia given the quality supply. Unfortunately for Carroll, none of those guys were any better a match-up for him than Tippett was.

[Dee man 299]

Melbourne next 4 games

Hawthorn - MCG St kilda TD- Collingwood MCG - richmond- TD

Hawks will kill us and the Tigers will as well, but Saints and Magpies are pretty overrated this year. Neither have beat any team of note yet. Nonetheless Saints will beat us, but the Magpies always lose to us on Queen's Brithday. Always.

[praha 10,294]

Hawks will kill us and the Tigers will as well, but Saints and Magpies are pretty overrated this year. Neither have beat any team of note yet. Nonetheless Saints will beat us, but the Magpies always lose to us on Queen's Brithday. Always.

We won't win another game for the year. Even if the Maggies give us the game, we'll still lose it but handballing in circles and kicking in backwards while not hitting the target. Collingwood will HAVE to kick goals.

[grazman 6,542]

Thanks for that. Blind faith isnt enough for me.

I compare him because Carroll can play football. And I disagree with your view of Bell. He does not always take a small defender.he takes a mid sized forward in my view.

I realise you will not let a criticism of Bailey slip through without a dig, good natured or not.

But the decisions the coach make dont sit as well with me as they do with you.

I believe the reason we won last week was because he allowed the players to trust their own judgement after half time and just play football. He was indignant at games end because his master plan was shown to be the sham I believe it is.

I believe he didnt want to win today and one way to ensure this was to cut Carroll. i wouldnt have been so peeved if Carroll didnt travel to Footy park and wasnt available.

I feel sorry for those members who went today and the self satisfied defense of our "tactics" in playing duds and trust in the mastermind coach get so far up my frock I fair dinkum dispair!

I've heard the story about the Freo win and also the other ones about player disquiet... but I'd make the following points.

Firstly that Bailey's approach is wrong and that the players were right simply because we won. (I seriously doubt that part of Bailey's game plan is to move the ball at pedestrian pace or to turn it over with monotonous regularity)

Secondly that there is any evidence to suggest that Bailey doesn't want to win.... certainly dropping Carroll had nothing to do with it. He sat on the pine for most of the second half against Freo.

Thirdly that his plan is not a sham, but what he lacks is the cattle that are capable or in some cases willing to carry it out... I'd argue strongly in light of today's performance we're our team was pulled apart and chopped into tiny little pieces by one of the most professional and accountable sides going around, a game where none of our senior players had any influence on the outcome, a game where we were comprehensively beaten in all areas - That the playing culture and specifically the lack of accountability we've allowed to creep in over the years won't deliver in finals. Neil Craig won't win any popularity awards down at West Lakes, but they're a bloody good footy side and he did a lot to fix the rot that had set in down there. Interesting that the AFL have now lifted the restrictions on how many players a club can trade, if I were Dean Bailey, I'd start taking a few heads and sticking them on some pikes to make my point. If he needs to trade 7 or 8 or 9 players at the end of the year - then that's what needs to happen.

Finally the rumour goes that Essendon passed up Damien Hardwick in favour of Matty Knights, because Hardwick was a little more blunt in appraising their chances of making the finals and what to do with the list than Matty Knights. Knights has worked on a free flowing "feel good - run forward of the ball game plan" Are they any closer to making the finals with him at the helm? It's a recipe for disaster IMO. They may make the finals in a couple of years, but unless players work both ways not as a matter of choice, but from habit, then they'll be exposed time and again in big games like we were under Danners in the last few years.

I like Bailey it's true, I like his approach, I like his resolve, I really like his selection of assistants... I see the problem as being the players...

Blind faith isn't enough for me either, Franky, and I'm happy to agree to disagree, We all have to sleep in the beds we make.

[rpfc 27,572]

There was some great passages where we moved it by hand all the way up to the forward line with some boldness and dash but a few of the fellas went into their shells at times.

As an aside, Carroll did nothing in our half against Freo, so I don't think that dropping him was an indicator that the coach was attempting to lose.

Quite frankly, that was hard to type because it is a ridiculous argument to suggest that DB wants to lose and that Nathan Carroll is 'the difference.'

Our talent is young, lets see it.

[Jaded No More 58,497]

You can't have it both ways.

Either you want to develop the list for the future, get good draft picks and build a team around our core youngsters, or you want to play ordinary senior players and lose by 5 goals instead of 15.

The fact remains that apart from Green (barely), not one senior player has stood up and delivered this year. They have all been a royal disappointment, Carroll included. The other senior players still getting a game (Robbo, White, Bruce and Junior) should quite frankly count themselves lucky.

So I couldn't care less how much Frawley is struggling, how hard it must be for PJ to play a key defensive role. I care that with every passing game, Garland is gaining more confidence, that Bartram is finally finding some form, that Aussie is really making a stamp on the game, that Bell is working through his form slump by pushing up the ground. In two years time nobody will care or remember that Carroll was dropped, maybe nobody will even remember who Carroll was, and in two years time we most certainly won't care what the losing margin against Adelaide was. All that is totally irrelevant to our future.

What's relevant now is who can play for us in the future and make a real impact. We're slowly finding that out, and thank god our coach actually has the balls to drop under-performing senior players instead of rewarding their mediocre form.

By the way, anyone who blames the game plan for our loss today needs to open their eyes and look at the way Adelaide play. They are the most well-drilled, disciplined, hard-working side in the competition. That is where we are striving to be, and if we need to remove half of our list to get there, than so be it.

[mo64 5,209]

Neil Craig won't win any popularity awards down at West Lakes, but they're a bloody good footy side and he did a lot to fix the rot that had set in down there.

Your quite happy to criticise Daniher, because of our poor showing in finals, yet you're full of praise for Craig, when Adelaide have achieved nothing in the finals under him.

Do you recall his pigheadedness in leaving Kris Massie on a rampant Buddy Franklin against the Hawks last year, when he had one of the premier defenders in Ben Rutten in his side?

And who are the "7, 8 or 9" players you perceive as trade bait, given that trades rarely go through these days?

[Rampaging Demons 1]

Am a tad confused at the standard of umpiring!!

did not change the result but there was no reard for the tackler today unless you wore a crows jumper or were called brett "giving gobbies out" burton!!!

there were times today when we looked a million dollars but on the turnover, well we were completely and utterly smashed!!

aussie showed that he has a future - quite strong overhead and also good foot skills

cale morton - could be our first star in a long time.. has poise beyond his years and actually is able to kick a drop punt and most occassions choose the right option

buckely - able to run the lines but at times was lacking for someone to support him with run and handball.. his kicking leave s alittle to be desired but....

[Jarka 767]

Quite frankly, that was hard to type because it is a ridiculous argument to suggest that DB wants to lose and that Nathan Carroll is 'the difference.'

It sure is a difficult concept to come to terms with...

[titan_uranus 22,566]

We won't win another game for the year. Even if the Maggies give us the game, we'll still lose it but handballing in circles and kicking in backwards while not hitting the target. Collingwood will HAVE to kick goals.

We've still gotta play Essendon.

[Damo 3,004]

Bell is working through his form slump

Fun Boy Three "The Lunatics are taking over the Asylum".