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Eddie and Caro

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29 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Jack Watts - no, wait you got that one w-w-w-WRONG!

Done to death. And no, my critiques of Jack have never been wrong. 

How about gay rights in Islam.  Does that float your boat. 

I'll start.  There aren't any. 

Edited by ProDee

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Just now, ProDee said:

I see Wilson as a senior professional.  You see her as a female. 

The comments were not gender specific.  They were about a combative journalist.  A senior journalist. It's a pity you can't see Wilson as a professional first and foremost and have to resort to the type of stereotype that women in the workforce have been fighting for decades. 

An issue for you. 

It doesn't actually matter what proffession she is in or how good she is at the job. If the comments were about her ability to do her job then fine, no issue, she is more than capable of sticking up for herself. The comments werent about her ability to do her job though were they, they were about killing her. 

The fact you think tbat is OK is baffling. 

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Just now, ProDee said:

I see Wilson as a senior professional.  You see her as a female. 

The comments were not gender specific.  They were about a combative journalist.  A senior journalist. It's a pity you can't see Wilson as a professional first and foremost and have to resort to the type of stereotype that women in the workforce have been fighting for decades. 

An issue for you. 

You are construing any comment made to fit your argument, I do know Caro is a journalist and so does Eddie, but if you can't see that saying he and others would hold a woman under water is not completely wrong, then the issue lies with you

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1 minute ago, Chris said:

It doesn't actually matter what proffession she is in or how good she is at the job. If the comments were about her ability to do her job then fine, no issue, she is more than capable of sticking up for herself. The comments werent about her ability to do her job though were they, they were about killing her. 

The fact you think tbat is OK is baffling. 

Killing a "journalist".

Poor joke.  Not a reference to domestic violence to women no matter how desperate you are to link the two. 

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Just now, ProDee said:

Killing a "journalist".

Poor joke.  Not a reference to domestic violence to women no matter how desperate you are to link the two. 

Read my earlier comments and you will see I agree it was not a reference to domestic violence. Watch the vid I posted on the first or second page and you may just be able to see the link.

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4 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Done to death. And no, my critiques of Jack have never been wrong. 

How about gay rights in Islam.  Does that flat your boat. 

I'll start.  There aren't any. 

You win.

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1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If the comments were made about Slobbo would anyone care?

For starters they weren't but if they were they would still be in bad taste. You wouldnt get the anti feminists on here though but most of those who think this was bad would still think so. 

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1 minute ago, Chris said:

For starters they weren't but if they were they would still be in bad taste. You wouldnt get the anti feminists on here though but most of those who think this was bad would still think so. 

Hmm interesting. I doubt he would get much sympathy

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1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

The worst form of misogyny is to kill a woman in hate. To make a vitriolic joke (or what you call "off colour humour") about a group of men violently killing a woman is casual misogyny against that woman. It's more than just dislike. If he simply disliked her he might've said he wanted to be the person to push her down the slide.

Have you read about the horrible gang rape of a 14yo in Geelong by a group of brothers last year who joked about it during and afterwards? When asked how old she was they joked they would need to buy her some new Dora the Explorer undies. An extreme and heinous case yes, and absolutely no where near what Team Eddie said, but disrespect towards women breeds hate, whether it's against one woman or all, even if it's wrapped up as a joke.

There's a link on my reply Ricky that might inform you a bit further about the link between disrespect for women and domestic violence. Also, there was an informative YouTube clip someone posted on p1 or 2 of this thread. I would advise you to become informed before you compare me to being guilty of "misogyny, sexism, racism and homophobia".

If you still need a "persuasive argument", percentages or "teasing out of the dynamic" to convince you, I respectfully suggest it will never happen.

However I fully agree with your last sentence.

 

Para 1 - Nope, misogyny is killing a woman because you hate women. You can kill a woman and not hate women. In this instance, you are not a misogynist. Same applies to jokes about the subject.

Para 2 - My argument is that jokes don't have a substantive impact on the level of domestic violence in society. No-one commits an act of domestic violence because they heard a joke about it. Your example is a story about rapists making jokes about rape during and after committing a rape. It doesn't address my argument in the slightest. 

Para 3 - I already clicked on your link to the government's website. In my initial post I mentioned that I didn't agree with the government's view on this. A link to a website containing material I had already found to be unconvincing is hardly likely to make me change my mind. If the link between jokes and domestic violence is so clear then I'm surprised you can't outline it yourself instead of referring me to third party material.  

As I've been saying all day, the notion that off-colour jokes have caused or enabled a single case of domestic violence to take place is laughable. 

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1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Hmm interesting. I doubt he would get much sympathy

I don't think it would be anywhere as big an issue but that is due to the current national debate around violence towards women and stamping out language such as that used by these oafs. It also wouldnt be as big as there wouldnt be the anti brigade saying she needs to just suck it up and deal with it if she was a he. 

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2 hours ago, Ricky P said:

All I want is a single persuasive argument that off-colour humour has any substantive impact on levels of domestic violence.

There are any number of studies out there linking sexist, misogynist and violence-against-women humour with increased violence against women. If yours is more than a rhetorical remark, I'm sure you can find them. 

You could start here: sexist humour linked to violence against women, where you'll turn up results from studies such as "the participants who read sexist jokes reported a significantly higher proclivity to rape" and "research proved that those who had listened to sexist jokes were much more tolerant with male battering than those who had not"

In short, jokes and humour that trivialise violence against women, normalise violence against women.

 

 

Edited by bing181
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2 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

Para 1 - Nope, misogyny is killing a woman because you hate women. You can kill a woman and not hate women. In this instance, you are not a misogynist. Same applies to jokes about the subject.

Para 2 - My argument is that jokes don't have a substantive impact on the level of domestic violence in society. No-one commits an act of domestic violence because they heard a joke about it. Your example is a story about rapists making jokes about rape during and after committing a rape. It doesn't address my argument in the slightest. 

Para 3 - I already clicked on your link to the government's website. In my initial post I mentioned that I didn't agree with the government's view on this. A link to a website containing material I had already found to be unconvincing is hardly likely to make me change my mind. If the link between jokes and domestic violence is so clear then I'm surprised you can't outline it yourself instead of referring me to third party material.  

As I've been saying all day, the notion that off-colour jokes have caused or enabled a single case of domestic violence to take place is laughable. 

It is about the culture as a whole and the jokes are just one part of that. Death by a thousand cuts if you like. 

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12 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

You are construing any comment made to fit your argument, I do know Caro is a journalist and so does Eddie, but if you can't see that saying he and others would hold a woman under water is not completely wrong, then the issue lies with you

What difference does it make that she is a woman? Would it be OK to hold a man under water?

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1 hour ago, stuie said:

Right, so firstly you're text booking "snitching" here.

Secondly, funny how your recollection is fading somewhat now... As I stated earlier, I posted an inappropriate rumour, which is completely different to posting something "I would do to her" as you stated.

Thirdly, your hazy drunk recollections about a poster you have constantly followed around making personal comments about don't really hold a lot of weight.

 

They aren't hazy recollections Stu.

This is something you wrote about Caro.

It was worse than Eddie's comment/s.

You have no moral high ground here .

You did a month for it so I think you remember the comment .

Own up to it .

be genuine for once.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

You are construing any comment made to fit your argument, I do know Caro is a journalist and so does Eddie, but if you can't see that saying he and others would hold a woman under water is not completely wrong, then the issue lies with you

You can't enuncuate your argument. 

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If someone jokingly threatened to drown Jon Ralph it would be viewed as though they wanted to drown Jon Ralph.  His sex wouldn't be considered part of the narrative.  It would be obvious that they take umbrage at his professional output.

If someone jokingly threatens to drown Caroline Wilson it's an offense against women.

The stereotypical attitudes on here are a sight to behold. 

I view Wilson as a senior Melbourne journalist.  It's a pity others don't. 

Edited by ProDee
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"Hurr hurr hurr, hold her head under, I'd pay to see that, hurr hurr. Black widow spider! Hurr."

Remembering that each of the speakers is part of a clique that has sustained a running campaign to keep Wilson as an 'outsider' in the footy media, despite the fact that she's done more actual journalistic work than the lot of them combined.

They're talking about ritual hazing of the outsider, a nasty little schoolboy routine, physically dominating someone - the humiliation and powerlessness of being 'held under' is not an accidental symbolism here.

They're reliving childhood memories (or fantasies) of back in the day when yep, violence was an ok way to make other people submissive. And they think it's ok because "hurr hurr just kidding obviously I'd never do that", but the next dumb drunk thug still living in the 80's or earlier knows exactly what is being talked about.

You can absolutely bet that in the next few weeks there will be an extra scattering of women having their heads held underwater until they begin to panic-inhale, and being threatened with a fresh dunking if they don't "show some proper respect". It's just something that will happen, accept that fact.

Good job, Brayshaw, McGuire and Frawley. At Least Brayshaw and Frawley have stepped up and said 'yes, what I said was unacceptable and inappropriate'. But Eddie?

"Anything at all that can be perceived to promulgate domestic violence is unacceptable," McGuire told Triple M's Hot Breakfast.

[censored].

Collingwood Football Club President.

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Ive seen similar said about Carro on these boards!

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5 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

Ive seen similar said about Carro on these boards!

2012-13 it was a daily thing

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I wasn't aware of the "black widow spider" comment until now. 

Very silly and adds weight to those opinions with which I've disagreed. 

There is obviously layers to this.  But I can't agree with the poster above who sees a spate of threatened drownings on the horizon.  Talk about a drunk joining dots. 

Edited by ProDee

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18 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

"Hurr hurr hurr, hold her head under, I'd pay to see that, hurr hurr. Black widow spider! Hurr."

Remembering that each of the speakers is part of a clique that has sustained a running campaign to keep Wilson as an 'outsider' in the footy media, despite the fact that she's done more actual journalistic work than the lot of them combined.

They're talking about ritual hazing of the outsider, a nasty little schoolboy routine, physically dominating someone - the humiliation and powerlessness of being 'held under' is not an accidental symbolism here.

They're reliving childhood memories (or fantasies) of back in the day when yep, violence was an ok way to make other people submissive. And they think it's ok because "hurr hurr just kidding obviously I'd never do that", but the next dumb drunk thug still living in the 80's or earlier knows exactly what is being talked about.

You can absolutely bet that in the next few weeks there will be an extra scattering of women having their heads held underwater until they begin to panic-inhale, and being threatened with a fresh dunking if they don't "show some proper respect". It's just something that will happen, accept that fact.

Good job, Brayshaw, McGuire and Frawley. At Least Brayshaw and Frawley have stepped up and said 'yes, what I said was unacceptable and inappropriate'. But Eddie?

"Anything at all that can be perceived to promulgate domestic violence is unacceptable," McGuire told Triple M's Hot Breakfast.

[censored].

Collingwood Football Club President.

Wow. I hope you are seeing an analyst about your life. And the imaginary friends and the...

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From a female perspective this is just another example of everyday casual sexism.   Sure, Eddie and Co didn't really want to drown Caroline, but they certainly wanted to embarrass and make a fool of her.  And why - cause she's had the audacity not to play by their school boy rules.  They wouldn't degrade another bloke in public like they did Caro - the bro code doesn't allow for that.  The same bro code that has allowed was someone like Wayne Carey - who glassed his girlfriend - to be accepted back into the media.  Eddie McGuire is comfortable ignoring Wayne's track record but can't handle a journalist suggesting it might be time for him to give away his club presidency.

 

Any one saying this is the PC police overreacting is totally missing the point - have a look at the current 'Stop it before it starts' campaign. It's about changing attitudes.

 

Or maybe think about the fact today would've been Luke Batty's 14th birthday.  

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45 minutes ago, ProDee said:

If someone jokingly threatened to drown Jon Ralph it would be viewed as though they wanted to drown Jon Ralph.  His sex wouldn't be considered part of the narrative.  It would be obvious that they take umbrage at his professional output.

If someone jokingly threatens to drown Caroline Wilson it's an offense against women.

The stereotypical attitudes on here are a sight to behold. 

I view Wilson as a senior Melbourne journalist.  It's a pity others don't. 

Who here has said she isn't or has said the comments weren't due to their conflict as pres v journo? 

It is you who fails to see she is a women or that threatening to kill anyone is not a good look, especially a women in this day and age. 

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It's no surprise the posters on here who don't get it. 

Try looking at the problem through the eyes of a sections of the community who have been abused and vilified for decades (sometimes centuries) instead of through the eyes of the white middle class male. You may find you see things in a different light. 

Edited by Mgdee
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