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The thing I noticed at my first training session this pre season on friday, was an improved level of fitness at this time of year and the increased number of bigger players I saw. I was shocked at the size of Fullarton, who is muscled up from this season and clearly has the body to impose himself on the field. We will see. Also the 2nd - 4th year players muscling up was apparent. We will definitely be a stronger side physically this season.

Hearing word (via here) that Clayton’s hand has finally healed is genuinely exciting. The combination of physical pain and mental drain he endured last season would have been formidable. That handball aspect of his game was, for understandable reasons, completely absent this year. Coupled with lacking fitness, we all knew he was warming a bench while simultaneously out on the ground in ‘24. But he seems in ten times better shape/spirits than he did this time last year. Both him and CP are looking down the barrel of playing “defining seasons” in ‘25, and I’m very much here for it.

Look at last few years flag winners: 2024 - Lions great run with injury and lucky Giants choked when 45 points ahead in Qual final. Still GF day won easily! 2023 - Pies lucky with injury, win 3 finals by combined total of 12 points! Snuck a flag! Still feels like with any luck approaching finals in 2023 we win that flag, Melksham playing best footy of his career goes down last round, Fritsch fractured foot, Brayshaw taken out, any of those three not happen, I feel we win the flag! 2022 - Cats era finished too old, get a great draw, have a dream run with injury, comfortably win flag! 2021 - Demons great run with injury, dominant finals campaign, run away with flag! Today Demons are seen by many to be finished, but compare favourably to Cats of 22 in age demographic of stars. May 33 (hopefully better run with injury, should hang on for one more year) Max 33 (with support next year, can look forward to another great year, he is not get any smaller), Viney 30/31 (fingers crossed). The rest of our stars Trac and Clarrie both under 30 and seem fully fit! I rate Kossie and Fritsch as guns in their positions, I’d take Kossie over Charlie Cameron who is seen as best small forward in comp, does so much more defensively, as a mid forward Fritsch stats over last four years match up well with most. JVR will be even better after another pre season and Turner with a little bit more confidence in that he belongs will have a good year! But going back to the last four years premiers, luck with injury is #1, leads to having a fit team that can run out games, a good drawer helps with managing older players, luck in games that are close helps, perhaps that will to win is not luck! Providing our luck holds over preseason and during 2025 we can give it a real crack, top 4 and then onwards! But Lions won from outside top 4 this year - Daniher injury free and holding up in the finals, who would have thought choking Joe starred in the finals! So top 4 a nice to have! While many have anti AFL sentiments, due to fixture and range of things that skew the competition, that there are probably ten teams that could win next years flag is a testament to the draft and salary cap doing the job pretty well, of providing some levelling of the playing field! Particularly when compared to competitions like EPL, NBA etc. Demon supporters keeping your fingers, toes and everything crossed for some Lady Luck in 2025!! You just never know what might happen!!!!!!!!!! Go Demons! 😃

Can say with some knowledge of the situation that Kirkwood-Scott had multiple interviews with our recruitment team in the lead up to the draft if a list spot became available. Clear interest from us to see how he develops in our program so definitely one to keep an eye on. Noah Yze has also signed with Casey for 2025.

BEST news of PRE SEASON thus far.. Were currently on trsck to have 90% do 90% — THIS is something to be genuinely excited about folks!!!

Good points 👻 2023 and 2024 we had played finals the year before so were 2 weeks behind in prep, AND many players were totally knocked about. This year we have 4 extra weeks of “rest” and very few carrying injury. Poles apart, and as you rightly said earlier the monkey is off the back in a way.

Great points, MB. Clarrie’s hand being back to what it was pre-injury is huge. Interestingly, on Friday he commented on how ugly the scar is, first time he’s mentioned the aesthetic of it. I’m not an expert but I took that to mean previously there was more to worry about than how it looks. I told him scars are great because they’re unique, like fingerprints, no two are the same. Also, that every scar has its own story, be it good or bad, an example of a “good” scar being one that signals cancer has been removed. Lastly, I told him scars are a godsend for people with prosopagnosia (face blindness) since they’re a distinguishing mark which aids in recognising someone. I’m quite sure he doesn’t see his scar as so ugly now. I’d know if he did anyways. He’s a permanently open book is our Claz.

Brisbane didn't have much luck with injury as you say they did. By round 5 the lions had four ACL injuries to their senior established players in Kiddy Coleman (runner up norm smith 2023), Linc McCarthy, Darcy Gardiner and Tom Dodee. All 4 players would be premiership players had they'd been fit and ready to go. They lost Brendan Starcevich for 5 weeks with a calf injury, Levi Ashcroft only started playing mid year recovering from an ACL and then their 2nd best tall defender in Jack Payne also missed 6 weeks with a knee injury. On top of that went they went into grand final without their number one ruckman in Oscar McInerney who's a genuine top 5 ruckman in the competition. Whilst I agree to win premierships you need an element of luck on the injury front, Brisbane on the other hand had their fair share of adversity when it came to injuries. What it did for them was unearth talent like Kai Lohmann for instance when McCarthy went down and had to shift Zorko down back to cover Coleman which proved a masterstroke. The way they were able to plug holes with solid role players is why I admire their grand final more then any other opposition team in the last decade. I am also a massive Chris Fagan fan from a distance. People have knocked his age, but if anything it just shows that experience and being a wise head of the game still has a place in the AFL coaching caper.

Agree 100% … and that trip to the Red Bull training camp that he was criticized by the press for attending must have been highly worthwhile physically for him on top of being a great break after the injury he suffered on KB.

GW can I respectfully ask that you simply ignore any such comments. Let them through to the keeper. Please. I'd ask the same questions you as you do above - is it necessary to respond to these accusations? What have you achieved by doing so? Responding simply invites a rebuttal from that poster, other posters and almost always another round of circular posts of the sort that simply clogs up threads, not to mention inevitably become more personal and unpleasant. It's tiresome - and unnecessary. There is no need to defend yourself. People wil believe what they want to believe. Lean into the fact that the vast majority of posters really enjoy your posts, take you at your word and enjoy the banter with players and staff you choose to relay. The haters are always going to hate. Of course you are free to post and respond however you want. But by ignoring the haters you take away their the power which is their ability to upset you. And we will have less threads getting derailed.

One of my wishes for the Demons for season 2025, apart from the usual pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (ie the premiership flag) , is that we rub Collingwood’s noses in the dirt. Even though we’ve been an improved outfit in recent years, they’ve still managed to have the wood on us. They’ve beaten us in 10 of the last 12 outings including keeping us out of the final eight in 2017, beating us in our only meeting in our premiership year, knocking the stuffing out us (and ending Gus’ career) in their flag season and humiliating us twice this year. On Kings Birthday they fixed up Tracc and in Round 25 we capitulated and lost Kozzy for next year’s opening three matches. Overall, we’ve beaten them 85 times and lost 156 games to them with 5 drawn. We owe them more than one. Both teams missed the finals in 2024 after finishing in the top four in the regular season, so both need to lift their performance in 2025. The way I’m reading it, Collingwood is going for age and experience with an old list, their key recruit being a class player in Dan Houston but he’s in his late 20s. The Pies have the oldest list in the business and they had slim pickings in the draft. Melbourne went more for youth and will go into 2025 with four solid first round picks from the past two years and a good sized cohort of Under 22 talent who were exposed to senior footy this year. The question is whether their aging squad is better than our youngish group and can we bridge the gap we’ve seen and overtake them next year!

Trac is a specimen. Glad he has shook things up a bit, year upon year he is the fittest looking bloke on the list, wish we could have 10 of him.

I’d like to add a quick thanks to all the posters who provide training reports, I greatly appreciate all the comments. Helps keep footy and the Demons alive, until the season starts!

GW are you talking about big ballsy changes on friend or off field? I’ve seen a lot of training over the last few years and every year I’m told of “a new game plan” or at least of significant tweaks but I don’t see them. Training has always been about quick ball movement and using the centre corridor but training is usually something like 14 v 14 with little pressure on the ball carrier allowing this methodology to be practiced. In games of course it’s quite different because the opposition is trying to stop you do what you want. I think we will basically see the same game plan this year but with different players executing from the back half. Windsor back is a clear indication of an intent to quicken us from there and Bowser will be a good addition. The addition of Sharp makes the Windsor move possible. A fit Clarrie and Trac back will make the biggest difference to last year. If you’re talking about off field then we have made some significant changes which have been initiated by the club. It will be interesting to see if the members have the same resolve to improve us. We will find out on Tuesday night.

I knew WCW, was WCW from a few of her interactions she wrote about earlier this year from training, as I was also in attendance on at least one occasion. I saw her again on Friday and remembered but as for your good self, I now assume that you were one of many hovering with her on Friday. Still a touch of X Files about it🤪.Would love her to get back on Demonland, very entertaining commentaries!

Sure, that record doesn’t look good but we usually do them over in grand finals. I look forward to us repeating the dose as soon as possible.

I was saying this to a friend this evening. It’s like we had to fall to such a low in order to start over and climb our way back up. If we had fallen only a little way we’d be tempted to keep patching things up. This way, we’re compelled to make big ballsy changes, which we’ve done, and so far it’s working. Bring on 2025!

I love Spargo. It's good to hear his injury is improving. I just worry he has missed so much with such a tricky injury. Really hope he gets fully fit and firing this year and back to his best (even if just in the twos)

Yep as I said earlier this year the club LOVE where he is at as a player he took feedback and went to work so glad track watchers agree exciting times

Interesting piece from the public broadcaster on a dual flag hero, and much more. Harold Ball had a short but impressive football career before he died in WWII

You know who’ll happily and proudly talk about the Casey boys? Tom Couch, for one. He’s super proud of the results he’s seeing (which clearly has a lot to do with him working with them). He said, “Have you seen the Casey lads lately?!” He actually said this a couple of times. 🤩

Lol. Oh, please bring back the faceplam emoji.

When WCW is at training, so too am I. We’re never apart. You in fact did see me at Gosch’s on Friday, you said so yourself. Anyways I’d like to think you find my commentaries as entertaining as WCW’s 🤗

I mean the off-field changes. As for on-field, what you say is true: what we see in match sims isn’t necessarily a true representation of what we’ll see on gameday. It can’t be, for the reasons you’ve cited. Besides that, there’s been no sessions at Casey thus far and Casey sessions are where more is revealed, away from prying eyes. But last year and the year before weren’t anything like this year. It feels as though I’m watching an entirely different Club. Even small changes, for example: mouth-guards. Pretty sure I didn’t see a single mouth-guard last preseason. Seeing a few this year though. That’s just one of many changes.

Agree with one proviso, the talls /midsize particularly Turner ** and Fritsch really have to put pressure on and defend!

What rankles for me is the cheap shots the Pies take and we do nothing about it! Look at the final in 2023, Cox tried to take out Max at first ruck contest, Maynard tried to take out someone on back flank missed them, five mins later finished Brayshaws career! Cox tried to roll over another players leg, could have broken it! They are the filth for a reason, I want to see our players bury them as a 23, smash them in tackles, if they take a cheap shot, pay it back double. At some point enough is enough! Aside from being tougher/harder against the Pies, when you reflect on 2021, May, Salem, Hibberd tackled/bumped fiercely and the Demons need to find that fierceness again!

Clearly a focus of the club review and focus on a good VFL side to help our young Dees adjust to the higher level. Chucking kids in the deep end doesn't help development. Great moves from the club!

Another thing the last four premiership have had in common, one that intersects with injury, is clearly being the fittest team come Grand Final day.

Yep, 6 premierships from 7 grand finals is a sound record when it matters most.

85-156 is an appalling record We must inflict pain upon this obhorrent organisation for decades….

''Haters'' ? I doubt anyone hates another poster on this site. I don't personally warm to the style of said posts, or the content, or the banter, or the drama, or the excessive emotion. C'est la vie. You roll your eyes and move on. There's one thing though I'm certain of. Goodwin isn't picking, or guaranteeing, the round one team in December.

Nothing I said was insulting and I am not a 'hater'. I value the contributions GW makes and the forum is richer for her involvement given her commitment to sharing the information she does have. Beyond that, I have also said previously that people like her are very important to the club. That does not mean I need to believe every word or that I can't call what I think is nonsense out when I read it. I won't apologise for this. Seems I've hit a sensitive spot and I'm not across what some other poster has said...But whatever Goody said about Shane, I would probably have interpreted it differently to how she has. Whatever. It doesn't matter. She seems to think this is a noticeboard, or a bulletin, or an email newsletter where the dialogue is one way. It's a forum. People said Chris Judd was coming here years ago and got smashed for it. Who cares. It's the internet. I've been smashed plenty of times for my views - including by those now on their high horse in this thread - who preach diversity of thought but clearly don't appreciate it. I'm not driving anyone away - plenty like me come here to see both sides of the coin. Melodramatic bunch aren't we

I’m hoping the ban imposed elsewhere on DL doesn’t apply here because I’m obliged to mention that Mitch Kirkwood-Scott is an excellent signing and skipper of the Haileybury College The 178cm Kirkwood-Scott is a small defender who is a strong interceptor who runs the lines and would be a great foil for Bonner, a quality player who could fit a number of roles at VFL level. Rivalry for places at the club will be strong in 2025 and some MFC listed players will have to be on their toes. Competition is good.

The club socials have put up some pictures of the group hard it with Saturday morning sprint training and a bit of a run as well. I wasn’t there myself but if the intensity was at the same level as last week’s Saturday session then it suggests that we have a great deal to look forward to in the coming season.

Short answer. The bookies set the initial price. Their prices top to bottom would pretty much reflect the previous season's ladder. After that point the prices are set by the punters. That's to say who punters put their money on. The bookies change the odds to cover their spread and ensure a profit no matter who wins. At this point there would be bugger all in the pool. So relatively small amounts wagered on particular teams would have an outsize impact on prices. For example a bunch of hawks fans with hok ball fever puting $20 here, $50 there, brings them into second favs. If one of us dropped 2k on the dees, the bookies would reel us in quick smart. How far depends on how much money is in the pool. Winning on the punt is not about picking the winner. It's about getting a price over the 'true odds' (being good at determining the true odds is the other key to winning). Betting on the flag at this point is a fools errand because it's impossible to determine the true odds at this point given the millions of unknowns and variables in between now and September next year (injury being the most important). Which is why there's no money in the pool now - no big punter is putting any coin in now. That said, $26 in my opinion is def 'overs'. And given our pretty soft draw early, backing them now and cashing out, or laying off, after say 7 rounds would be a smart play.

Agree. It is harder to develop kids when you are getting smashed around the contest and generally on the scoreboard.

I highly doubt the penny is going to drop WCW

True. And also the thinking one, or maybe a bewildered one

It was Mentha be

Good to be back on DL. Some classic shyt goin’ on Love It.

Agree. And he is a premiership player.

Collingwood’s high octane, transition it from one end to the other with ease, is too much for us to counter. Same applies against Fremantle and also would’ve applied against Hawthorn late last year had we run into them. Not sure how we solve that, and Houston delivering the pill from defensive 50 isn’t going to make things any easier next year. I also don’t think we handle the pro Collingwood crowd all that well, particularly away King Bday games as well as that 2023 final. They seem to handle the occasion far better.

Posting opinions is what this site is for. It's what you've done in this post. No one asked you to weigh in. So perhaps take your own advice. I've nothing to 'let go' here. I've not doubled down. GW and I exchanged DMs - we evidently don't see eye to eye....but that's ok. As I said it was never my intention to upset her and I respect her contribution. I'm not going to revisit my initial wording, and would suggest you and the others piling on try not to look for something that isn't there.

We have always looked better with 3 talls in our side as well as Fritta. This is what we saw in the Premiership model with Benny Brown, Tmac and Dogga. This allows Fritsch to play the 4th banana and absolutely dominate his opponent. It often means one of the 3 talls will have a decent game due to a mismatch and has historically seen us have a lot more success. Especially because it is still a young forward line, spreading the load amongst the talls makes sense. They are also a mobile bunch which means you can afford to play 3 talls. I would play Van Rooyen, Disco, Fritsch and one of Jefferson/Petty/AJ. The rest of the forward line will consist of Kozzy, Chin and Tholstrup. To me that is a really well balanced mix of talls, goal scoring ability and pressure. We also sound like we are going back to the holy trinity defensive group in May, Lever and Petty. This has always suited us as well as it means Lever can peel off and play his true intercepting game rather than having to lockdown on someone a little undersized strength wise. Going forward I'd love to see us try and stick to the 3 tall forwards and 3 tall defenders in our line up. We have enough run and spread now to ensure it won't affect any ball movement. Go Dees.

I have always thought that if the Dees can pull off a training base at Caulfield that would be an amazing outcome. Relatively close to the city, near train and tram lines, located in a historic MFC metropolitan recruiting zone (so there actually is a local history and connection there) and consequently already has a strong local following in nearby suburbs. This will be as important as the 2021 flag in re-establishing the Demons as a real force in footy again. Should not overlook the marketing possibilities and connection with the other nearby neighbour, Monash University (Caulfield Campus). It is a chance to cultivate potential new supporters amongst international students.

That's great you have been refusing to bite more often CW. Thanks. And the training threads have been much better for that discipline. Few of us have thick skins, certainly i don't. Most people are sensitive to criticism and our honesty being questioned. I certainly am. So it's not about being less sensitive or 'toughening up'. It's about not responding and fuelling the angst. You post lots of interesting snippets of conversations with mfc peeps. Almost all posters like that content. For whatever reason some don't, and for a small number of posters it seems it's a trigger. It really isn't possible on such a forum to stop people posting stuff that might get under someone else's skin - and that’s leaving aside the conversation about whether that is even desirable (ie policing opinion and/or criticism). Keep up the good work on not biting as often. Water off a duck's back. Ommmmmmm.

Your stakes and expectations are way too high. It's physically impossible to back this up week in week out and I would be blatantly surprised if a club has ever done this in the last decade by kicking 15 goals per match, every week. Our forward line stocks is still young and developing. With Pickett playing more midfield next year, we still lack a genuine small with x factor and ability to be a match winner. Looking at Brisbane's smalls for instances, Lohmann (36 goals), Ah Chee (27 goals), Cameron (44 goals) Rayner (31 goals) Bailey (22 goals) Amazing spread of goalkickers just from their small alone and not counting their talls. Can't rely on the same usual suspects such as Pickett and Fritsch to kick all our goals week in, week out. Unfortunately the trade and draft period didn't really give us any real good options to chase another genuine classy small forward so we're going to have to pull a few surprises this year.

It’s understandable that many will have reservations re Shane Mc. But as you said, only time will tell. I’m super excited for him though. He’s maintained for the past few weeks that he’s a cert to play in round one. Even Goody has confirmed it (barring any unforeseen issue between now and round one). Shane has been working extremely hard and is so proud of himself. He’s dropped six kilos and is lean and toned and this is the fittest he’s ever been. Up until now he’s had a problem with stamina… running wasn’t his strong point. But what an amazing improvement! This has resulted in a level of confidence he says he’s not experienced before. Goody and Selwyn are delighted with how much effort he’s putting in and he’ll be rewarded, as he should be.

In rounds 3 (Suns), 4 (Cats) and 5 (Bombers) we play teams coming off a bye. Not sure if that helps or hinders that early in the season but it is a quirk worth noting.