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As someone married to a person of colour, albeit Indian not First Nation. I have forever seen the sacrifice and hardship that she has faced due to her skin colour, religion and overall appearance. This is a current day problem, and not one “in the past”. People of colour go through daily racism and ignorance due to their appearance, culture and beliefs despite their education and intelligence. My partner is a well respected lawyer and an amazing wife and it pains me to see what she goes through on the daily. I cannot begin to understand what these people have been forced to go through. People saying these are alleged accusations, I ask what possible benefit these First Nation people would have gained from making false accusations. This is a part of Australian society, and something that is not new or different for people of colour to face. As Gerard said on AFL 360, it is the stolen generation repeated. People of colour have and will continue to be used for entertainment purposes only. It is time the world takes a stance, and that people of colour, or in reality, non-westernised people, are truly appreciated for the value they bring to society besides their entertainment capacity. I’m sorry if I’m emotional, this is just a topic that speaks so true to me through second hand experience. I have shed some serious tears today running through this topic and hearing the press releases. DO BETTER AUSTRALIA. With much love, Tom

This is so much worse than the supplements saga, it is properly evil, having a baby, either as a young mum or dad is a profoundly vulnerable time that is also super stressful, to pressure someone one way or another, and not support their decision based upon a commercial interest is so sick. I found out about this from my Hawthorn mate who has good connections to the board. He believes the report and he said Cyril has been waiting for a long time to fully give his side of the story. He is passionately obsessive about the Hawks and about as conservative as you can get. He mentioned that Clarko was known for being brutal (his words) with young players. He didn’t connect Cyril directly but thinks it likely. He is bereft and was making no excuses, however I would note that Hawthorn commissioned the report, fair play to them for doing so, and everyone deserves their day in court. I would not make any assumptions about what other players knew or did not know. I like that the AFL appointed a KC to lead the inquiry, that is a fair way to proceed. I actually think the AFL is moving the ball on Race in the right direction for the country, not perfectly, but ever since Nicky Winmar things have been getting better for the conversations we have. When you look at the totality of what has happened in sport you can see that Racism has been a stain but at least some of the people involved have owned the problem ( maybe kicking and screaming but still). I love Australia, best country by far for so many reasons, and acknowledging that it has a dark history to resolve changes none of my love. I am a white Australian ex cop who has indigenous family members. My father who was my hero, was an utter racist(hard to acknowledge), and yet none of his five sons continued that hate, which gives me huge optimism for Australia. @Neitz the Great I have your back.

It’s not surprising but it’s not like they all got injured the week of our final game. Our insistence to continue to play so many players who were clearly below their best when we had a strong list of players playing high quality footy at Casey was ridiculous.

No way Bowey has Hunts pace.

Would rather keep Hunt than Hibbo or Melksham.

For all those suggesting we give a first round pick for Grundy, the Suns have put pick 7 on the table for any club that takes Bowes and his last two years of a back ended contract. That’s right you buy pick 7 by taking on Bowes and his contract. As I posted earlier, we should offer a low pick, or an exchange of picks, as we are taking on a 5 year salary dump.

Just to add to that, I am sure one of the 11 is Salem who we picked over a fit Bowey. Again, we got what we deserved.

To get pick 7, I would look at taking Bowes for 2 years and clearing some some room to accomodate him. Baker, Melk and Hibbo would probably be more than enough and there is uncertainty over Hunt and Tomlinson. Hunt as a free agent would give us a compo pick if he left and Tomlinson would free up another $500k for 2 years. Added to the Jacko trade, we could get some really good young talent that our ladder position wouldn’t give us access to ordinarily. This could be monumental for the next few years, as we bring in un gettable talent, while still being a flag contender.

The equivalent in points to pick 3 doesn’t make an offer, equivalent in the real value of the player at the present time. The club used pick 3 to select him and with it came risks as to whether he would improve, be injured and yes, even as to whether he would succumb to the risk of flight which was always there. The club’s investment in Jackson paid off, he improved immensely and is now a premiership player with a long future ahead of him as a top player in a position where the number of players at the elite level is limited. To me, that makes his current trade value much greater than the points equivalent of the number at which he was selected three years ago.

I disagree. I reckon we'll have cap space for an FA or a big fish, but GNF literally takes what he's heard on Demonland and repackages it as his own inside intel. He's been doing it for years.

Speed is crucial on the MCG I would be keeping Hunt

But if the Pies pay $300pa and receive a 1st round pick as many are suggesting, it's still totally disproportionate to paying Bowes full salary and receiving pick 7. As Redleg said, Grundy is a salary dump by the Pies, and that's how we should perceive the trade. Giving up a 1st round pick of any kind is ludicrous.

Spargo was in hospital with a damaged larynx. Viney has just had eye surgery. I supect Clarry may have had a fractured cheekbone from the Swans game and certainly was hampered by a recent broken thumb. That is 12 players not at their peak fitness. Despite that only poor kicking cost us a PF, so we are still thereabouts.

No one said 11 players should have been dropped at once and replaced. The clear implication is we pushed the boundaries with inured players, perhaps off the luck we had in 2021, but the balance was too far to the other side this year and it cost us. Given the form of Casey, losing 1 game for the entire season, there was ample opportunity to blood some young players who had earned a shot while at the same time making sure those injured players were brought back to better condition. We could have done this bit by bit and planned out the year differently, especially given not all injured or sore players were at their 'worst' at the same time. It's not just on Goody, but also the fitness staff and the entire selection committee. I would say mostly the selection committee given what we know about Goodwin's firmness with the fitness team.

Gawn's best work has always been his influence around the ground. People point to his ruck stats but when he was clunking contested marks on the regular and being a brick wall to stop teams transitioning we were incredible. Then for the 2021 final series I had the treat of attending and watching the opposition sweat when he wandered forward and tossed around key backs for fun. The idea to make him a permenant forward in my opinion has it's flaws, but I think Jackson wasn't offering us enough at times as the second ruck or even as forward for it to even have a chance of working. Grundy gives headaches. It wasn't long ago him and Gawn were the MVP's of the league. Players who caused headaches for opposition teams are worth their weight in gold and we should welcome as many of these players into our team as possible.

I believe in the presumption of innocence, but I am over the days of the presumption of lying and duplicity. Let’s get to the bottom of this - because it may have ruined peoples lives. And that’s when, yes - it will ruin a few livelihoods. That’s called consequences.

These are very brave posts from WCW and DEEfence and they should be commended for sharing such private and painful memories. The world must get better and the good must lead the way.

How about waiting til the deal is complete first! . If he does that kind of thing now it’s undermining our position. I have no doubt he is getting informed by the club in terms how they would like him to conduct himself.

The chance was there against North and West Coast to begin the management process and the coaching staff ignored it. From there it went downhill. It's a balance and that's what they are hired for.. I think Weideman's bad form spooked them and with McDonald injured it started to fall away. The two Collingwood losses which we would have pencilled in as wins completely blew away any further chance of managing players

Why blame 'Goody' for this? Recall, if you may, that 2021 was a year when, whoever the gods of football are, granted us a virtual free pass. Some on this site believe god was called Burgo. I'd rather believe the god was called Serendipity, the same god who spins the wheels of fate and the result has absolutely zero to with Burgo, Goody, or the fact that Melbourne played with 11 injured players. From what I've read, those 11 players should, according to some, been replaced by 11 fit and able Casey players. Yeah, sure. We lose and Goody gets the buckets of poo poured over him for playing Turner, Van R, Brown, Howes, Baker, Tomlinson, Chandler, Bedford, Moniz-W, Weideman, Laurie, Dunstan and Woewoddin. I rest my case.

We've seen Hunt in that role before and despite his excellent pace he doesn't read the play as a forward, doesn't change direction and doesn't have the tank. It's a different form of running. You can't just pick names out of a hat to replace what ANB brings no matter how much you dislike his deficiencies.

We all jumped on the Burgo mantra of playing through injury. The reality is we had a shortened pre-season, and players were training a couple of weeks after the flag. We shouldn't have tried to replicate 2021 in terms of player management. We had a VFL team in extraordinary form, and yet we didn't avail ourselves of these players. Match committee preferred to play underdone players than fit and firing players like Chandler, Dunstan and JVR. Hopefully this is one of the learnings that Goody is talking about.

My mum, God bless her, used to say "be sure your sins will find you out". What is surprising to me is that it has taken this long for this stuff to surface. I feel sick in the pit of my stomach, thinking about the pressure brought to bear on young people. I have young adult kids. If someone treated them the way some of these young AFL players have been treated, there would be hell to pay. If even half of the various allegations are true ... how does one explain the apparent lack of a moral compass ... and why weren't there some adults in the room who were prepared to speak up and intervene?

Maybe if they were rested earlier they would have been fitter for finals

I think we all know who they are.

We must attempt to continually upgrade and improve our side, to achieve the best chance of long term success. That could among other things, involve letting DL favourites go.

Neitz the great - Sorry for the hard times your wife goes through! The only positives that can come out of these situations is awareness and education. Let’s hope things improve dramatically in years to come.

The narrative of Hunt having poor disposal and decision making is overblown on Demonland. Over the past 2 years he has tidied up in both areas.

Would rather keep Hunt than accept a paltry compo pick. He offers pace in the backline which is important on offense and defence.

Firstly, I wasn't speculating I was asking a question. If you disagree with a poster insulting that poster is not the way to voice it. This is: 'Wiz', thank you for providing more info and for the respectful way you raise caution.

A correction to that info. He has two years to go on his contract.

Agreed. If we could have a recruiting period like Port did a couple of years ago (or even our 2019 year) and bring in 2 or 3 young guns that can impact straight away *and* Grundy, we're extending our rucking bang for buck and replenishing the list. This could also make us very unpredictable in 2023, which would be nice.

In Round 18, Tomlinson played a great game in Petty’s absence but was immediately dropped in Round 19. This was probably the last chance to move Petty or even Tomlinson forward to see what they could do. If we had more wins in the bank, perhaps Goodwin would have been more adventurous, but he is clearly uncomfortable with too many variables. It’s like he thinks 5 games at a time and can’t bring himself to change much from game-to-game or even quarter-to-quarter.

I'm glad Whateley likened this to the Stolen Generation. As I said yesterday, that was the imagery I had whilst reading the article. Robinson was Robinson, unfortunately. The continual claims of, "I just hope this isn't true" ignores, or at least fails to recognise, the realities of Australian society. It wasn't long ago that Adam Goodes was booed week after week, Eddie talking about King Kong, and Betts on the Adelaide camp. Our own Kozzie hears these attitudes every time he plays a good game. And that's just within the AFL industry itself. We have stories in this very thread speaking to terrible and ongoing experiences of racism. Removing agency from someone, particularly 'for their own good' as their race renders them incapable of knowing what's best and doing what's right is as bad as it gets. As a football community, it is as much on the fans to ensure this is not washed away or minimised through legal technicalities.

I understand that, but it’s an illustration of the reward to a club that helps another salary dump. We are helping with about $3.5m in salary dumping and should be being rewarded, as there is no other club that Grundy will go to. Therefore we get a pick, or give a low pick, or there is no salary dump. Giving a first rounder in these circumstances, where it’s coming from the Pies to move him on, would be ridiculous IMO.

Ouch. Go back to the first page and early pages. We’d hope that LJ would at least sign for another 2 years (up to 5 years) with the lure of playing with his mates Riv and Kozzzy and further premiership success. After winning the ‘21 premiership, we were high on optimism. But unfortunately the known poison of the “go home factor” was too strong and the enticement of home-family/surf/$$$ all proven the winner for LJ and his management. It’s all over after 3 years. His burst of brilliance in games (especially the ‘21 GF) and domination v Lions in round 14 this year will be fondly remembered. Though he was always “nearly” ready to be a star, yet still at only 20 and often frustrated with dropped marks and silly decision making. He’s got a lot to thank MFC for and to Goody, the coaches & staff, Jason Taylor and his teammates. Thanks LJ for 52 games, a 2021 premiership player and 2021 rising star winner.

That’s for taking the full whack of Bowes salary. The first round pick in the Grundy deal is is because of the dollars they will be paying. We would be the club getting better picks if we were taking the full Grundy salary.

You can say that again!

Chris from Camberwell needs to say something about this !!

Agreed. The 'salary dump' change is intended to help struggling clubs who have the cap space get access to better picks/players. Hence, the article mentions the clubs with the cap space: Hawthorn, Saints, Ess and Geelong. It frightens the bejeesus our of me that Geelong could have the cap space to get him and get pick 7. The AFL should check if there are 'freebies' being offered by Geelong that they don't count. It just doesn't make sense that they can afford Bowes.

Thanks for the info and clarifying what happened. I take great comfort from the work we are doing in Alice, with Naarm and the way we supported Kozzie when his mum passed away. And as our AFLW captain Daisy Pearce has shown great leadership and grit 'taking on' the AFL recently. I just hope that if we have any skeletons the club has found them and taken action to heal any wounds, if needed.

It's a typically disgraceful 'article' from this scumbag. Including things like: "The ABC quotes three unidentified players at length, from the more than 20 indigenous players who were with Hawthorn when Alastair Clarkson was a premiership-winning coach, hailed as the best of modern times. We do not know how typical their complaints are, and we are relying on the reporting of an ABC that has a strong race agenda." He would be rubbing his hands together knowing he has weeks, maybe months, worth of outrage to farm for his continued employment.

Thanking your old club usually only happens after the trade in minted. He is still contacted to mfc for a bit more

Aaron Sandilands played until he was 36. He was still playing good footy at 32, but injuries effected his final years. Dean Cox played until he was 33. Shane Mumford played until he was 35. Last good year 33. Paddy Ryder played until he was 34 and looked like he could go again. Todd Goldstein is playing good football at 34. And is going again. Ben McEvoy played until he was 33. Last good year 32. My point ? Not many ruckman are AA at 24 like Cox and Gawn. Most start playing their best footy from 25 onwards. And plenty can be important contributors well into their 30s. Grundy plays all of next year as a 29 year old. For me that doesn't put him near the back end of his career, it puts him smack bang in the middle for a ruckman. How many rucks reach their peak before the age of 26 ? More-so 28+. Our premiership window should be at least the next 4 years. At the end of this period Grundy will be 32 and should still have some years left. Subject to injury he should play at least 100 games. You may not think Grundy will work, or you may wonder how it will work, but if he's injury free his age for our list demographic is not only fine, it's perfect. The only proviso is his injury status. So dismiss Grundy as a good trade target all you want - no problem - but stop using his age as an issue. From an age perspective, he's in the "window" at the exact time we are.