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Was probably tired from carrying 21 men on his back all day

Yes, he's like the council worker digging the hole while 10 of his co workers stand around watching!

Some comments: Huge game from Max. A tragedy that our team did little with his great work. And he had to do a lot of the work himself: 10 clearances. 9 from stoppages. What were our inside players doing at the stoppages? Wish he would learn to kick for goal. Not a decider but that last kick went left, again! Didn't like Buckley diminishing Max's game by saying Grundy played unfit. Now most reviewers are qualifying Max's achievement by quoting Buckley. Pumping up Grundy for AA ahead of Max but poor sportsmanship in my book. They won. He should have left it at that. It is an immense credit to Max that week after week he puts in champion level performances, sees his great work wasted but soldiers on. Our team are letting him down very badly.

If we review two players in similar stages of their careers at MFC, Jones and Lewis, and compare how we are reacting to the finish, or potential finish , to their careers, we appear to have different standards. Lewis is a 4 time premiership player who has played over 300 games, an all Australian, whose skills and football brain have always been well above those of Jones - and still are. Jones has been a heart and soul player for us through many bleak years. He has earned our respect and gratitude. However, while he still bleeds red and blue, his skill set is now second rate, if we are being honest. Lewis, a large number of us here has said he should stay at Casey, and not play in the ones again. Jones, a large number here are saying we should keep him on to play 300 games - at least one and a half seasons away. Naturally there is a lot more love for Jones than Lewis - one is Melbournes heart and the other is an outsider. But perhaps we need to take a tough leaf out of Clarkson’s book, and take the emotion out of any decision regarding Jones, and do what’s best for the teams development - when the time comes.

Lockhart was the standout in terms of playing a class above. His ability to break out of traffic, use the ball well, mark strongly etc etc was a cut above. Dunkley was really good to watch as well mostly around the stoppages. He has a natural ability to create room for himself to get a kick away and just as importantly he has the penetration to make that kick useful. I'm sure he has a lot to develop including using his hands more creatively but I can see why he was recruited. For some reason no Melbourne player can get a long snap out of traffic either at a stoppage or in the forward line so I hope we don't ruin Dunkley's ability to do it! Kyle Chandler is the other one who plays like he'll be a handy player. He's quick on to the ball or to tackle, seems to read it well and has a decent mark for his size. His sidestep to get on to his left is very nice as well. Oh and he's almost certainly too slow and small to have it work at AFL level but Mitch White dominated as a lead up 3rd tall. Played like Tom Lynch (crows). A little more speed and good health and he would've had a decent AFL career I think. Glad he's sticking around at Casey.

Stop being logical Praha. The panic is starting and This is turning into a lord of the flies scenario. We just have to find the right person to sacrifice.

I'm sure there's plenty of effort and instruction going into training and everyone involved is working hard. That does not mean it's effective though. You would agree our "forward connection" is a major issue yes? Along with our finishing in front of goal? Pretty hard to argue. Currently, we have a former defender (albeit a quality one) as the sole coach responsible for our forward structure and goal kicking technique. Now, you may argue he knows the theory, but clearly it's hard to instruct players who have played 100 more games as a forward than he has on what they should be doing with their leading patterns and set shot routines. I'm not sure what more evidence you need other than our performance this year in that regard. As far as "flying" last year, that's simply not the case in regards to our forward structure and goal kicking accuracy. We were appalling in front of goal against decent teams, and a combination of fitness, momentum, form and the previous rules all kept us winning, but our forward delivery and structure was still poor. Let's remember, we're specifically talking about forward craft, structure and the delivery here, and none of that was"flying" last year either. McCartney and Egan absolutely have my respect, but between them they have the sum total of 1 AFL goal. Not exactly forward experts or the blokes you'd go to for set shot routine advice. "It is just not happening in games" just doesn't cut it mate.

From the AFL... Stadiums and police across the country have a zero-tolerance for members or supporters that abuse the opposition, umpires and other members and supporters, on grounds of race, religion, gender, disability and sexuality. So...Bald, what grounds does that come under? Disability? doesn't seem to be race, religion, gender maybe sexuality... Headed...not sure. Fill in the blank. Rhymes with Dog: probably under sexuality....could be a disability as related to eye sight...

Its funny you should say that. i didn't notice them going through May as such but i was not nearly as impressed with his defensive work as seems to be the consensus on Demonland. I might be wrong but i think May was on De Gooey for much of the day and DG bagged 3 goals (though i doubt all 3 were on May). I'm not sure about him not being a one on one defender. I certainly hope he is seeing that is precisely what we got him for. That said there were a number of occasions where he was beaten but one really struck out. I couldn't help but wonder what scorn would have been heaped on OMac if he had been so easily beaten one on one and turned inside out in the way the way de goey did to May when he kicked his third goal of the afternoon. Or for that matter when May elected to fly for a mark on the half back line rather than spoil or stay down, missed it and gifted them another goal.

Because, D3, we just cannot afford anyone who "chooses their contests" as Jeffy did more than once v Adelaide. Had he taken his turn when he needed to we would have won that game. Cost us far more than Weed's uncharacteristic miskick at the death knell that so many talk about.

Easy fix. Line him up stepping one metre to the right before he start his run in.

I have tears pouring down my cheeks. What beautiful children and what a brave, strong man Brad Green is.

I have not been keen on bringing in preuss, in large part due to his mobility. However ihe been persuaded by dee zephyr's argument on last night's (excellent) podcast that preuss desire to be proactive and actually kick for goal rather tban loom to aleays give off is something we are in dire need of as is his agressiveness and aerial contest work.

Because hes rubbish and wont be on the list next year anyway.

We continue to play Tom mcDonald who averages less goals, less disposals, less hit outs per game than Preuss. I don't care how unfit Preuss is he is a better option than TMac at the moment! TMac needs a break. If we could draft a 2 goal per game forward that can pinch hit in the ruck we would jump at it. That is Preuss! Preuss averages more goals per game this season than Hogan. So what if he plays 77% game time. Hogan 90% TMac 88% Out: Tmac - JWagner - Garlett In- Preuss - Dunkley - Lockhart

This has been a terrible year and I'd agree with much of what you've said other than there are credible alternative explanations which need to be factored into any discussion and in my view make your summation very emotive. Here are some of my observations/beliefs: 1. We very nearly, and should have, beaten WCE and Adelaide. The reality is we completely outplayed each of these teams other than on the scoreboard. And we did it with significantly compromised teams. WCE and Adelaide are good, if you can compete with them you're not far away. 2. We have a significant disconnect between our mids and our forwards which is hurting us. But the reality is that Jones, Oliver, Petracca, Harmes, Brayshaw and Viney all had significantly interrupted preseasons and therefore had no time to refine and develop this "connect". 3. For all that I'm sick to death of saying it (to myself), we are young. Almost all of our talent is young. Our over 25 year old players are Lewis, Jones, Garlett, Hibberd, Jetta, Melksham, Gawn, May, TMac, Frost, AVB and Viney. Compare that with Collingwood: Pendles, Varcoe, Mayne, Greenwood, Beams, Howe, Sidebottom, Thomas, Elliott, Treloar, Hosking Elliott, Adams, Crips, Grundy and Langdon. It's chalk and cheese. Fancy a mature team beating a team of kids. If you want a comparison of a team in a similar position look at Richmond. They did very well early with a few injuries but they reached a critical level and then they just fell apart. Big losses to North and a terrible thumping by Geelong. They just couldn't cope with the number of injuries and now look uncompetitive. There situation now is similar to what we've faced for much of the year. Collingwood are second on the ladder and we pushed them into the last quarter. I'm not saying we were ever going to win but we were very competitive and I think we were the better team over the last three quarters. They kicked 9 goals straight in the last half, we kicked 4.10. I acknowledge that much of that is where the goals are kicked from but the general view that we are uncompetitive and need a total overhaul is based on emotion and not rational analysis. Frankly, it's just not correct. We are a much better list than last year. Baker and Hore alone make us so and Lockhart has shown signs. Fritsch, after a slow start, has played very well the last few weeks and then you have May and Lever. Many have criticised the FD for bringing players back too quickly. It's being done because players benefit from playing with each other. That's where the "connection" comes from. Goody is putting a team on the field that will be a lot of our best 22 next year because he knows the more we play together the better we'll connect and the better we'll do. That's why Lever played on the weekend. It's not that hard to figure out. I'm not suggesting that we don't need to change some things. Some new voices in the assistant coaching department would be a good idea, a tweak to the game plan as every team will do, but this concept that we are a rabble is just plain wrong in my view. We need to see this year as it really is. We had a horribly compromised preseason, we had a terrible run of injuries early in the season and we played horribly compromised teams for much of that period. People will hate this but we've done okay given the hand we've been dealt; we've missed some good opportunities but we've put in some excellent performances. Hear is a list of our notable under 24's: Preuss, Salem, Kilodjashnij, Harmes, Petracca, Brayshaw, Lever, Hore, Fritsch, Weideman, Oliver, Baker and JSmith. When you look at that lot and think about it you'd be silly not to hold a fair degree of optimism for the not too distant future.

I may be one out here, but i would keep Jeffy in the team. He is a one touch player, creates and is more capable than others. I know he is a bit scared at times and a bit soft, but thats not our problem.. goals are our problem and he has kicked 5 in 3 weeks, 10 shots.. and goal assists here is some comparisons JEFFY - 10 tackles and 5.5 in last 3 weeks. (leads tackles inside 50 for year and has played only 7 games) HUNT - 3 tackles and 3.4 in last 3 weeks SPARGO - 8 tackles and 2.1 in last 3 weeks TRAC - 7 tackles and 3.2 in last 3 weeks. *Jeffy has played only 7 games, is 4th on goal kicking - cant understand dropping him calls.

Melbourne Bitter seems most appropriate at the moment.

But he isn't clean anymore, he's dropped lots of marks, fumbled the ball where we expect him to swoop in and has kicked the bulk of his goals through getting an easy over the top handball/kick rather than creating heaps of pressure. I think we now have to have 1 eye on next year, we know what Jeff can do, at his best yes he's best 22, but he hasn't been at his best for a very very long time now, and was basically getting games because we had no-one else. Now's the time to be trying Lockhart or getting more games into Spargo (although they do play different positions) because more than likely he will be gone next year.

I think that is a factor, especially given the premiers of the previous season are usually benchmarked on game style. West Coast play a low risk kick-mark game style in their defensive exits and teams have taken bits of this approach in dealing with high forward pressure teams. The best example was how Collingwood chip-kicked its way to huge uncontested marks against Richmond in Round 2, negating Richmond's pressure game. But I also think that we have adjusted our defensive set up since Round 5, playing a less aggressive press and having more defensive coverage. This was a result of Geelong, Essendon and St Kilda just kicking repeat easy goals through uncontested possession chains which tore apart our defensive structure. Now whether the failure in our defensive structure was a result of players not executing correctly or not being fit enough to execute (due to the poor pre-season) or opposition working us out - who knows - but what it means is we now appear to not be sending as many players in to aggressively defend our forward 50. The price to pay of defending deeper and being more sound behind the ball appears to be a reduction in forward pressure, meaning we are scoring less of those chaos goals from pressure and repeat entries compared to last year. It will be interesting to see if further adjustments will be made now that our players are fitter and we have more of our better one-on-one defenders back in the team.

If Max is named AA this season (a certainty unless the selectors are corrupt and/or stupid) he will become our first 3 time AA since Garry Lyon.

Have you heard them giving detailed ongoing instruction on how to do the correct things? I believe that is the underlying point of this thread. No one is doubting the coaches are wanting the players to do the right things, but we have some quite inexperienced assistants who haven't played in the part of the ground where the majority of our problems are currently. Most here seem to agree that the problem is execution and not effort, but how does a new coach, whom had a career as a backman, instruct a forward how to lead, what sort of set shot routine to have, how to deliver the ball how a forward wants it etc when they have no experience of that as a player? "The effort is there just not the execution" applies to the coaches as well as the players.

Who amongst us would have had Sam Frost in seventh position at this time of the year? Well done, Frosty. And great work from Marty Hore, too. On the other hand, it's symptomatic of our season that there are only two forwards (Melksham and Hunt) who have scores that are not in the truly embarrassing part of the Demonland ladder.

What I've noticed about our set shots: Players don't calm themselves often players don't pace out their run-up or even have a regular run-up style. few take the 30 sec before the run up they don't 'line up' the ball with a target. they lean back when taking the kick The best set shot goal-kickers have a rigid set up routine: pacing, target, # of steps before kicking etc regardless of the state of the game. eg Kennedy, Brown, Gunston... For mine our problem is not in the kicking or even the ball drop, it is in the set up routine. The routines generally looks rushed and haphazard. That may be a byproduct of the manic, play on at all costs mind set our players have been indoctrinated in. Maybe they should be told to take the 30 sec. Train the set up routine (without even kicking the ball). As the routine becomes second nature the set shot kicking will improve.

I'm surprised, with your extensive knowledge of the game, that you haven't put your hand up When did you complete your Level 4 I go to training and I am yet to hear a coach tell a player to miss a simple handball, kick to the feet of a leading forward, try a switch to a player who is outnumbered etc etc Our present predicament lies with the players The effort is there just not the execution

Stafford has turned Gawn into a 2x All Australian beast. He stays

I hope the match committee sit down after the break and get out a clean sheet of paper and look at the fit players that have a bit of form and start from there rather than getting the team from lat week and scratch round a few names with the old lead pencil. Look at beginning afresh and attacking the last half of the season. it is not as if we have anything to lose. We also need to ensure that we have a fit list at the start of the next pre-season. now is the time to work towards that.

It's become clear that Goodwin believes that all out attack on the footy is how you win. Like the Mike Tyson saying "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face", Goodwin thinks if we play our way, no game plan can stand up to it. They fall apart and wilt under the extreme pressure. If they don't, it shows we didn't do it well enough. That's why there was no review of the prelim loss. We didn't play "our way"; if we had, the Eagles would have fallen apart. That's why there is no plan B. Plan B is simply to execute plan A with more intensity. Goodwin's ideal player is someone who can execute plan A, regardless of finesse. That's why a Spargo gets picked over a Preuss over and over, even though Preuss fills our current deficiencies much better. Spargo has the necessary "run around all day like a mad hornet" attribute. That he is more often chasing and tackling than in possession of the pill, let alone using it well, appears to be of no consequence. Still on the boxing theme, we're like a punch drunk fighter with no technique, getting picked off with jabs, but following our opponent around the ring, walking into his combinations, saying to ourselves, "I only need to hit him once!"

It shouldn't need stating but Fritsch plays in the backline because we haven't anyone else. Against Adelaide, he started there because five of the nominal starting back seven (May, Lever, Hore, Jetta, Salem) were out injured/ill. Yesterday it was because Frost was concussed early. We should remember how valuable he is in that (1) he so far has not been unavailable due to injury and (2) he is a reasonable option to push back when necessary. I imagine both the Match Committee and Fritsch himself would rather that he play on the wing or forward, but needs have required that he play in defence.

But was back to his best before he injured his collarbone V's GC. Got coaches votes V's Hawthorn.

6 Gawn 5 Gawn 4 Gawn 3 Gawn 2 Gawn 1 Gawn

We (Demonland) have had this discussion before in the Pert thread. Any new person at the head of a chain of command, whether in sport, politics, business, military - wherever, can have an immediate impact on the mood, energy and morale of those around them. This impact can be for the better, for the worse, or somewhere in between. Has Pert’s presence been a positive or a negative so far it’s hard to say. What we do know however is his arrival put some noses out of joint at the time, including the outgoing CEO’s who was reportedly staggered that he was shut out of the hiring process by President Glen Bartlett. Josh Mahoney was passed over for a job he was apparently groomed by Jackson for. There was just something a bit stinky about that whole affair for mine.

Petracca was good today...the only one who didn't fumble & looked poised with ball in hand.