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@Drunkn167 is a contracted and required poster in 2019.

McClure reckons Wingard is worth two first rounders (he’s nominated Hawthorn) whilst Hogan is worth one. How does this guy remember to breathe?

The trade offer from Freo does not match the size of the contract or JH age. Its a BS low ball offer straight out of Trumps “Art of the Deal”. Its designed to try and force MFC into a mid position. Problem is that this tactic only works when you are in a position of power. In this instance Jesse has not requested a trade and is contracted. Bell needs to read up on negotiation tactics. This is amateur hour. The only strategy left for MFC is to walk away and force JH to play out his contract.

Counter with requesting 3 first rounders.

Unlike @DeeSpencer I don't think it's a tactically smart offer. Unless, of course, Melbourne are fools and I don't think they are. It's never smart in a negotiation to make an offer that the vendor doesn't even need to consider. Never make an offer that is so easily dismissed it doesn't warrant thought. You may think it's clever, but it's not and it invariably weakens your position.

After paying Dockerland a visit, I would like to extend my thanks to @Demonland for giving us a user friendly and visually attractive site to discuss our team on.

If we lose Hogan & Tyson and get May, Preuss , Kolodjashnij and PICK 5, then Trade Week is a huge tick.

We have rejected the offer and are happy to keep him and deal with west coast next year. Jay clark tweet. Sorry can’t copy the link atm

The view that the club should wait one more year for May and get him for free doesn't wash with me. Firstly, there's no guarantee he'll still want the Dees in a year's time. Things change. Secondly, I want to win the flag in 2019. We're right in the window to win and May improves our chances. Improve the list. Improve the balance of the best 22. And do it now.

How many 21 year old key forwards have been best on ground in a final ? I don't know why so many doubt Weideman. He's going to be a star. He's certainly a few years away from his peak, but he'll be very good in 2019.

Alright alright Geeez! Misread a footy stats site. Apparebtly G stands for games not goals. ?

Melbourne will trade pick 5 for May. I'm looking forward to the meltdowns.

I think it is pretty clear that Hogan is happy to go to Fremantle if a deal can be struck and Melbourne is happy to let him go if we can get sufficient compensation to enable us to get May and have a first round pick. I would hope that we wouldn't trade Hogan unless we have the May deal sewn up. While I understand that Mahoney and co have historically adopted a reasonable and cooperative approach to negotiating trades, and I have no problem with that, the time has come to be a little dogmatic and belligerent. Hogan is contracted for next year and we are finally in a position to challenge for a premiership. I have been extremely disappointed with how the club has been addressing the potential Hogan trade. Surely, the best approach is to simply insist that Hogan is contracted and a required player, but that if an absurd deal was put forward we would consider it. The ball has to be put in Fremantle's court to offer up something so significant that it forces our hand, instead of our approach of setting our price and then negotiating from there. I understand the desire to get May and the belief that it will address a key need, but if the choice is May or Hogan, I would go Hogan. If the club is confident that Weideman is ready to play as our second key forward, then (as much as I would hate it) we can always throw Tom McDonald to full back to play on the gorillas when required. The other issue I have is that the value being placed on Hogan is far too low. What has constantly been overlooked is what we initially paid to get him. In 2012 we gave up picks 3 and 14 for Hogan, Dom Barry (steak knives) and pick 20. We effectively gave up two first round picks for Hogan and a second round pick. At the time he was unproven. Now he is a rising star winner and genuine match winner. Yes, he has had some injuries, but his value now is far higher than it was in 2012 before he had kicked a goal or played a game. However, our demands do not properly reflect the value the club even placed on him. The other comparable trade is Tom Boyd. Boyd had played one season and had not yet proved anything, so was worth less than Hogan is now. However, he was traded for pick 6 and Ryan Griffen. Griffen at the time was a dual best and fairest winner, club captain, all australian and had finished 6th in the AFLPA MVP award a year earlier. His normal value at the time, had Boyd not been involved, would have been two first round picks, with one of them being a top 10 pick. Accordingly, Boyd's value was assessed as effectively three first round picks. Mahoney said that Hogan would be worth more than any other trade in history. He is right, but his demands don't align.

You can't buy something you can't afford...

I saw a snippet of an interview with Bell where he said that keeping Neale would be a great feather in his cap as the new football manager. A feather in your cap? It’s not about you, wee man. Fremantle are the biggest clown show of the trade period so far.

Peter Bell managed to reference himself in his first press conference ("that would be a real feather in my cap"). Hey little fella, how about we park the ego and have a go at doing some business?

Good luck to him indeed. Kent nailing that set shot from 50 against the Eagles to put us into the finals is a good memory to have of him.

Hogan 1v1 is a monster...he destroyed Rance in his debut season part of the reason he gets so frustrated now is he's double and triple teamed most of the time. Under these new rules he'll be a dominant force in the AFL if we trade him, insanity.

Too many people see trading like swapcards, with an excessive emphasis on relative value. I'd prefer to see the whole trade period as a holistic exercise. If we have value that we can trade (like a forward or an inside mid) in order to get better improvements to our list where we are lacking (e.g. quality KPB, quality outside, backup ruck) then I don't particularly care what picks are given for an individual. In the end, it will be immaterial if Hogan goes for less than, or something different to, two early first round picks. The main criteria is that the list is improved and we are closer to a premiership.

It looks to me like the list management team have a firm goal which is build a list that has depth of types of players who are fit role types of roles - and there are some types of players that are missing key attributes for the broader playing style brand of contested footy. The strategy looks like: A) value relatively known quantity players that fit a need higher than haggling over draft pick positions give or take (within reason, I’m sure Taylor’s view on likely available talent is part of the picture and it’s a different in the top 10 where elite juniors are) B) if a player is surplus to depth, or there are equivalent other options (e.g. state league prospects) instead that are cheaper, extract value for those players by trading them C) if a player is not quite right because they aren’t contested enough or have other fatal flaws for the “brand” or there are personality issues, delist or trade them and give an opportunity to someone else Preuss is an A) as were Melksham and Hibberd. Tyson is a B) and you could argue they have decided Hogan is also a B. Watts and Bugg are C) and in hindsight re-signing Garlett might have been a departure from strategy and an error. And of course Melbourne’s don’t hold all the cards so a St. Kilda can upset things by offering Kent more security, and surprise opportunities may present themselves and need consideration (e.g. Lewis, move up the draft order near the start by helping a club with volume of lower draft picks for academy or father-son prospects). Obvious gaps we as fans could identify prior to trade period are a ruckman, reliable 1on1 tall defender, and outside pace and polish. Every rumoured move Melbourne are initiating appears to be driving towards those things and is giving up something that can be covered through existing players, or not much perceived value (e.g. some mid to later order draft picks or pick downgrades). I’m not saying the goal or strategy is correct, but for the most part their actions have been consistently aligned with this. So we might look at a deal and think “We got unders and gave overs” but I doubt the Demons are thinking that if it fits with their strategy.

Cheese is an ancient food whose origins predate recorded history. There is no conclusive evidence indicating where cheesemaking originated, either in Europe, Central Asia or the Middle East, but the practice had spread within Europe prior to Roman times and, according to Pliny the Elder, had become a sophisticated enterprise by the time the Roman Empire came into being. This means that cheese has been around even before the game of Aussie Rules was invented. Post all cheese rumours/facts/reviews here.

Couldn't really care less, od Not the first time I've stood up for my beliefs If Hogan doesn't get traded, he will enhance our list, not downgrade it

Not really. He's played 9 games in 2 years. Put the shoe on the other foot, and ask yourself what you would be willing to give up if we were trading him in? Answer: Not much.

All you can do is laugh.

Isn’t Japanese management wonderful. We were told it would likely happen and were horrified but now we are convinced it’s the best thing and we want it to happen! At least many of us do anyway. Imagine the outrage if he had been traded with no warning. Well played Josh Mahoney.

So instead of getting a gun full back the plan is to just throw Tom McDonald back, even though he's our best key forward, and just hope his lack of agility and horrendous kicking from the backline have just fixed themselves? What kind of plan is that? Trading from pick 14 back to 20, then adding a pick 3, it accounts to Hogan being worth pick 1. Then he won the Rising Star, he was probably still worth pick 1 if not more. But it's been 3 years since and apart from injuries and personal issues he just hasn't looked like a true superstar. He doesn't kick huge bags of goals, he doesn't take over games regularly, he doesn't do the freakish. Plenty of players have won the Rising Star and become good players without ever being of the same value. Don't act like Hogan is similar to someone like Buddy or Nick Riewoldt, it just isn't true. The Dogs gave Boyd the 2nd biggest contract in the history of the game. A mistake but a mistake they were always going to trade for. He was a pick 1 who they thought would play like a pick 1 - ignoring the more recent history of pick 1's and the evolving nature of the game. Griffen was 28 and banged up that year, no team apart from the pick rich Giants would've offered more than 1 first round pick, but it doesn't really matter. Boyd was still a rare overpay, there's no point comparing. Pretty much it comes down to the fact the Dees are happy to trade Hogan for a reasonable deal, not just the massive mega deal. If they weren't it wouldn't have got this far.

I don't know about everyone else but I used to think a contract meant something. In fact back in the day a mans word was his bond. ...but now it seems you just sign a contract and abandon it when it no longer suits. The Beams thing is the last straw for me. In Hogan's case, those saying that if he stays we need a long term commitment. He might as well sign on for 5 years and boot off next year if he feels like it. It's definitely time that clubs are able to trade players in contract to wherever the club wants. At least that would put some value back in the contract.

Freo lowballing has all the hallmarks of neophyte football administrators Peter Bell - straight out of radio and Steve Rosich - Dockers CEO with commercial not footy admin experience moonlighting due to staff departures, trying to prove to Freo fans and the AFL community that they have hair on their chest and are tough hard negotiators. Rarely has an AFL club entrusted its trade week negotiations to 2 more inexperienced staff members. Will be most amusing if Hogan stays a Dee in 2019 then accepts a trade to the Eagles!

All the noise aside, it was foolish of Freo to make that offer. I understand they don’t have pick 5 yet, however their conduct now looks nakedly stupid for all to see. I still think a deal will be done but this & the reports that they were the source of the rumour about Beams means that every club that sits down with them will see their officials as having the word ‘nuffy’ tattooed on their foreheads. Some of their fans will cheer their ‘hardball’ tactics but in reality they’ve tarnished their brand and can’t be taken seriously.

let the f...kers trade out neale and then leave them high and dry, while we do a plan c deal with gcs for may and keep hogan

it's a terrible tactical offer in my view dodoro had a reputation as a difficult negotiator, but this takes it to another level hopefully unlike gc17 we aren't absolute gumbies

I think the best thing we can do now, is talk to GC and see how we can get the May deal done, without the Hogan deal. Next year's first pick, a pick this year, a player we are prepared to let go who wants to go there, or even get them to up the offer to Tyson and we pay some of the salary. If we can somehow do that, then we simply state our minimum price for Hogan and if they don't pay it, he stays and we negotiate with West Coast next year, who hopefully act responsibly. You never know, Jesse might be so angry at Freo, that he signs an extension with us and we move on.

Small man syndrome and ego are a bad combination. It’s not about ‘winning’ the trade it’s about coming up with a deal that is beneficial to both parties. That offer is quite possibly the worst thing Fremantle could have done.

He's lucky it's an automatic function.

wow, I go away for an hour and come back to 5 more pages; there are some mighty unproductive work centres out there!?

The more I listen to or read what Sam McClure has to say the more I'm convinced he was intentionally dropped on his head as a baby.

Finishes Wednesday at 8:30pm right in time for the Demonland Podcast featuring Peter Jackson and our trade week and a half wrap up. http://demonland.com/podcast

Jesus, I thought trade period ended tomorrow. This garbage goes for another week.

Bryce Gibbs would have really helped in that Grand Final. But at least they didn't lose the trade. ?

any news on a new username?

We'll get 2 first round picks for Hogan. That would be about right in my view. May is worth pick 5 to us, at this point in the side's development. You draft kids with high picks in the hope they will get you to this point, high picks are of less value now we are here. Players that fill immediate weak points in our team are worth more than just about any draft pick.

I remain of the view Hogan is a special talent. The only reason he would be in play is because we asked him to sign for 4 more years and his agent has said no wants to keep options open. He is younger and far more talented than May. We should only be prepared to take an offer that is too good to refuse. 50 goal plus a season players are too hard to come by. Everyone gets swept up in the trade fiasco where picks are simply speculative,Hogan is not speculative if fit. I hope he stays.

I'm a cheesemaker. No [censored]. That's my job. And boy did I cop it when that fella rolled up to the game with his platter.

Didn’t Beams declare his love for Brisbane during their BnF? He told them he’s staying and that he loves “youse all” about a dozen times:

I'd argue that a dogmatic ruthless approach is the club's decision to basically push Hogan out the door to better balance the list in its quest for a premiership in 2019. I'll wait to see the end trade and then form a conclusion as to how well we negotiated.

Too much sense there DeeSpencer. In five years the current club administration has hauled itself off the bottom of the ladder, increased its win/loss incrementally EVERY SEASON, recruited marvellously well and finally this year made the eight and won not one but TWO finals. Boy oh boy there is just no pleasing some people.

North drafted a youngster - Xerri - who they have high hopes for as the future after Goldstein in 2-3 years. They aren't in the premiership window and are trying to accumulate players who will help them win games whilst still keeping their salary cap open for big name recruits. Tyson makes sense because he'll help them win games and they can front load him in 2019 and have a very cheap depth player in 2020/21. We are closing in on a premiership window - if all goes to plan - and need a back up ruck. A must have when in the window. We haven't been able to draft one so we'll pay for one. He's not perfect - not really a forward and needs to work on his fitness, but he has enough size, strength and competitiveness to fill in for Max if needed and wouldn't be the worst up forward either.

Nope. Mahoney has said nothing about two first round picks. You’re taking something a journo said and putting words in his mouth. Mahoney has effectively said two things. 1. “Jesse could still be playing for Melbourne next year.” 2. “If he does get traded we think he’s going to be right up at the highest that anyone has been traded for”. Seems fine to me. Hardly the sort of rhetoric to be “extremely disappointed” about. But each to their own.

Anyone who can tower over big Mummy like this is worth a go I reckon.