Leaderboard

I asked Max how much weight he has dropped, 9kgs, still skinny at 105kgs Tim Smith is tracking really well in his rehab and is more powerfully built than last year Standouts in the wet today Hogan, Maynard, Brayshaw Rehab today was Kent, Smith x 2, Garlett, Spargo, Hibberd, Tommy Mc

Mr Demonland sir, pics on my Insta account if you want to bring them across Good news today, Jones, Lever, Mitch King and Flip in main group Missing in action Weed, McKenna, Hannan, Baker, Viney

I'm currently floating around Goschs Paddock in a tinnie waiting for the players to arrive.

I noticed we didn't have any really for last week and found these for Friday 24/11/17 on Big Footy by Proper Gander. Not much to go off but better than nothing. Without delving further into the interesting area of the relative merits of adding bulk v drinking beers while on holiday - here is my general impressions of training. Also Starc just got Jake Ball’s wicket, which is nice.Notable absentees were Jack Viney and Michael Hibberd (unless he was in the rehab group on the far side, and I never saw him, but I don’t think he was there).In his own group, doing the special older guy with 4 premierships routine was Jordan Lewis who was doing laps early on checking his time every now and again. I gave him a supportive smile every time he passed that he totally ignored, which pleased me no end. He left soon after 10 AM and wasn’t seen again.The rehab group being tortured by Crossey for the day consisted of Kent (shoulder), Jones (something), Filopovic (why not), Lever (post premiership loss related angst), Joel Smith (things), Tim Smith (other things), Weiderman (eating disorder), Wagner (who knows), TMac (surgery for things) Buggy (pest patrol) and anyone else who was in the rehab group that I have forgotten. I think Jeff didn’t join the main group today - I saw him running a bit with the rehab guys at one point but he seemed to have left the field by the second hour so he probably went to have beers with Jordan to talk about how to get 4 premierships. TBH this group started early, and were doing things with Crossey with music on the far side of the field next to Punt Road, so I never got that good a look at them unless they were running the perimeter.The main group rocked up at about 9:35 - 9:40. Tardy buggers.Now to add a further layer of complication to the who is big, who is small debate for Topkent to argue about, my body shape observations are that other than Kent who looks to me much as he ever has only with bandaged shoulder, everyone appears to have come back in decent shape with some looking very good indeed. Max Gawn, as reported elsewhere, is leaner. Stretchy is really hard looking - this was evident last off season too. He seems to have one of those body types that shows muscle definition clearly. The ripped award goes to Joel Smith who was running with TMac at one stage, both wearing those silly GPS bra things. He looks like one of those Olympic sprint swimmers - washboard belly with clear 6 pack - and makes Tommy look portly if that was ever possible. Wagner in great shape too, but when is he not? His concerns do not include skin folds, which is just as well because in my view he has other issues to contend with.Channel 7 reported Petracca as ‘lean’ a few weeks back, which to my mind is media puff because he looks much the same to me. He is a big lad who has borrowed May West’s thighs, after either winning or losing a bet depending on your POV. He trains really well and is generally smiling, except during running drills where he looks like a guy hefting around 90 plus kilos who still has endurance work to do. The coaches are all over him, and Mitch Hannah who also struggles with running drills, but Ancient said Trac has improved already from a few weeks back where he was struggling to keep up, so maybe he can spend the summer shadowing Ollie shadowing Stretch and create a kind of domino effect premiership side.Clayton Oliver looks like a different person to the guy we drafted. He’s lean and has muscles and stuff, and is very focussed and effective all through the session, and the big surprise is none other than Mitch King who really has gone from ‘LOL you’re kidding’ to the heights of an interesting theoretical possibility. Hogan looking good and has come back relatively lean, in a big forward type way, and Pedo looks heaps better than last year post surgery when he was puffing his way though hours of Crossey type punishment.Goodwin also absent, but I think the draft might be held in Sydney this year so he’s probably heading there.I am now going to make a cheese sandwich and will return with more once I’ve eaten it and can recall some drills and stuff. The cricket has gone to [censored] again, so I will continue.The main group warmed up on some silly drills. They played soccerish stuff with a round ball which everyone seemed to enjoy. Our best soccer player is head-and-shoulders James Harmes who was having a Beckham-like blinder, and Dom Tyson isn’t bad either. Welcome to the next International Rules match boys. Then they play cone dancing for a bit - kind of footspeed, balance drill with players in turn having to skitter inside a diamond of different colour cones towards the colour cone yelled by a coach. Everyone okay at this. Of course there is the routine hilarious moment where the coach yells “red!” And everyone falls over their feet because there is no red cone. Wacko. What with the soccer drill then the invisible cone dance this all looks to me like a super way to do an ankle. By now I take two paracaetamol because my temper has taken a sudden nose-dive for no good reason.Then some real drills in ball movement. Interestingly with a spot of light body work, so we’re ahead of the curve, but no full tackling, just some friendly nudges. The players have split into three rough groups which are the defenders, forwards and mids (loosely speaking). I was closest to the mids. Thinking back to preseason a few years back, we look a much sharper, more experienced and generally better unit then back then. Plus Dawes isn’t here which is a relief and works even better than the paracaetamol on my head. Harmes is killing it in the midfield for sharpness and intensity. I’m pleased about this. His best footy is really valuable - read 1st quarter against Saints last we played - but like a true demon his consistency hasn’t been great. But he looks the real deal ATM so I’m hoping for a big year. Also he has terrible tats and his hair is achieving new heights of dodgy so I’m thinking breakout, Dusty type Brownlow year for the Horse.I check out Balic’s work and thought he looked okay, certainly not out of place. He has a good size and body shape for midfield, though looks a bit softer than some of our returning players which is hardly surprising given he is pretty young and hasn’t had much of a run at AFL game time as yet. I will watch with interest. He has an awesome totally deadpan expression, like a police officer reading from his notebook in the Federal Magistrates. His flat affect will no doubt drive Bigfooty posters to extremes during the year and I’m looking forward to it. Given he was a low pick, injury riddled past, only a year contract, and isn’t best 22 yet he seems totally the perfect character for a Melbourne sponsorship. Whoever goes to the BBQ has exactly 1 hour to make him smile or pay everyone here $50 (photo or it didn’t happen).We also did some full team drills where the Simon Goodwin changing lanes special is on full display. Skills are pretty sharp overall, though as Sir Hugh pointed out Jesse did some real worm burners from time to time. I like to think it was intended to sharpen the ground ball skills of his teammates, such is his generosity. But on the whole we look like a functioning unit rather than a group of randoms who showed up for a spot of kick-to-kick which is encouraging. Petracca is loud and somewhat ADHD but a few more running sessions quieten him down eventually (his recovery is very good - he is a complete goose again before home time). Track also does his tongue out thing at seemingly random times, so I’m now convinced it is totally unconscious. I hope he doesn’t get a surprise tackle while like that. All in all, I think we can be reasonably confident that the change lanes thing should be executed well in 2018. Hopefully in the season we can add in the taking marks thing, the not spoiling each other thing, the kicking goals thing and not going missing during random quarters for no obvious reason thing.JKH is training well, though I should point out that every time I have been to training he is going well - he’s very focussed and generally upbeat in training. But full marks for effort even though I’m not convinced he will make it as an AFL player - he won’t die not knowing, so good for him. Harmes is the dynamo of the day though - he is completely on and wins the intensity award. Also smiles a fair bit; but his teeth are pretty big so it’s probably just more comfortable to display bits of them from time to time and give his lips a rest.Late in the session there is some goal practice. Jesse redeems himself with some excellent kicking in set shots from various angles. He is also putting a fair bit of time now and after the session in practicing snaps for goal, so maybe this year he has decided to shrink and become a crumbing forward in the hope of winning over Ando. Jake Melksham has paired up with Jesse and misses virtually everything. Someone needs to get in his head and tell him its neck and neck in the 4th. Christians 1 and 2 both look good. One quiet and one loud. I’ll leave it to you to decide which. Oliver goes about his business like a pro. There are some nice moments where everyone is lined up watching the goal kicker and generally sledging to put the man off his game. So its a general testosterone competition of gruff swearing and raucous HaHa-ing - passing dog walkers glance over thinking its international pirate day. Harmes hasn’t tailed off yet and his goal kicking is solid from all angles.With some more running just for fun, the last bit consists of some positional work in pairs. Max has taken Mitch King off to one end and they do some light contested stuff. Max wins mostly but Mitch doesn’t look utterly out of place any more which is a step in the right direction. Jesse is working hard on getting some distance on his man (OMac), pushing off or out-bodying. He looks great now, and OMac not doing a bad job. Close by Pedo and Keilty are doing similar work but with more comedic misses and general pointless running about, falling over, scrambling etc, but who knows what the coaches are asking for so whatever they are doing could be perfect for all I know. So lets say it is perfect and give both a big hand.Some other coaches are doing contested midfield work tapping it to players taking turns in offensive and defensive roles. This group are all travelling well, even Balic who looks like a footballer (but still hasn’t smiled or for that matter twitched). He is getting a fair bit of encouragement but that could have been to get his face to move.And so it ends. I head off towards a tram. I try to hang by Christian Salem and Melksham who are in conversation to find out what interesting things footy players chat about. What I found out is that Jake reckons sessions like that are the pits for changing shoes from spikes to runners. He’s right. They all should get a pay rise. I slope off when both become aware that they have attracted a third person to their conversation and give me some WTF looks.Overall the dynamic looks good and we will probably get a premiership this year

Agree. This is the list that best indicates where Melbourne may go Hogan 23 y.o at the beginning of 2018 season. 51 games played Salem 22 years 46 games Petracca 22 years 39 games Viney 24 years 88 games Lever 22 years 56 games Brayshaw 22 years 36 games Tyson 24 years 90 games Oliver 21 years 35 games Stretch 21 years 36 games ANB 22 years 34 games Harmes 22 years 44 games OMac 22 years 37 games I know that all Clubs have good young players but that is a dozen good to very good players who are about to reach a 4-5 year sweet spot. Gawn, TMac, Garlett, Jetta, Melksham and Hibberd are all young enough and good enough to play for most of that time too. We really should be giving it a fair nudge anytime from next season on.

I've always liked vanders and when fit I rate him as a guy who can snag a couple of goals per game. The problem is he is also one of those guys who always seems to be injured. We've had a lot of very talented injury prone guys over the last 30 years. Best of luck to vanders. I hope he can make it on to the park more in the 2018.

There r NO more excuses for our club. It’s time to put up and perform.

The late Dean Bailey used to say that a team needs 70 games together as a group to achieve success. Brendon McCartney says that it takes 5 years to develop an AFL footballer. Both happening now and not long to go. I will bide my time until their predictions synchronise.

Hawthorn has lost Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Lake, Gibson and Hale from their last premiership team, but they still have the second oldest and the most experienced team in the league... they're still very top heavy.

Personally I think Oliver is our most important player and have thought so since his first game.

Saty I don't post here much any more [for the same reason] but I do read selected threads. Your posts especially. I consider your posts are the most informative posts on Demonland.' Your inside info is second to none. Just ignore the Dheads, and and take pleasure that there is a great number of us that really appreciate the time you take out to provide info re training and the players. Your posting is the main reason I look at this site. Please reconsider your decision not to post your reports.

Harmes always has that look of a kid pinching himself about where he's landed in life. I reckon he's living the dream 95% of us had growing up - running around in red and blue after spending a life time barracking for them. Love it.

Part of the discussion with him, he is stronger, acknowledged the days of the 115 - 120kg ruckman are gone, Sandilands excepted There has been a focus on building stronger bodies, Harmes, Billy Stretch, Maynard, Gus all look more powerful than last year

Looks like the renewals are coming through.....Now up to 27,610 which is only 300 short of the number we have at 9 December in 2016.

Gawn is important but we can restructure with the Tommy Mc/Pedersen ruck combination. Hogan is important but we've won games without him and again Pedersen/Tommy Mc isn't a bad key forward pairing and if not those 2 Weeds is hopefully available. Lever might prove vital, the Crows sure were a better team with him playing well (bit of chicken and egg there), but Frost and Oscar can at least do a job some weeks and Hunt and Hibberd can intercept and drive from half back. Viney might be our most important player but then again his absence might see more midfield time for Jones and Petracca and then it comes down to finding guys to play wing and half forward. The biggest factors with injuries are: - In game injuries that leave you down 2 players early - Injuries to multiple players from the same position group - injuries to groups of players at the same time that leave you short handed and also struggling to get recovered players back in to the team at the same time.

We basically lost our 2 most important players for most of the season in gawn and hogan yet still improved. if Richmond lost riewoldt and rance with dusty missing as much as jones or viney did then not only do they not win the flag they probably don’t play finals, that’s how fine a line it is to win a flag need a massive dose of luck

In Giro's respect, what goes around comes around. Apologies.

I also agree with Little Goffy in his post when he says averages are pretty meaningless. Make it the average of your top 25 players and FND's analysis goes some way to showing that we still would have one of the youngest list that gets on the park each week. To back up Tiers assessment, the actual stats are included here: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-01/senior-citizens-who-will-be-the-oldest-in-2018 If you look at the club list for 100+ game players, you will see that only Carlton and Gold Coast with 7, have fewer "experienced" players on their list than we do with only 8. Another out take from that list is which teams made finals. Except for Essendon, the top 8 sides tended to have the highest number of those 100+ game players. Hawthorn stands as an outlier, but the injuries to Rioli, Stratton, Frawley, Hodge, Gunston, Birchall and Gibson during the season with Vickery a no show, would drop their number considerably and explains why they didn't make it.

We should have given it a fair nudge this season just gone. And our end to '16 was also a nudge-free zone. It wasn't our youth that was our downfall, it was the space between our ears. A problem that will continue to haunt us, unless addressed, regardless of our youth.

Looks like they are advocating a wall to me.

"You wouldn't say comparatively it's an absolute need but we rated Harry and that's a good selection to sure up our defensive stocks going forward" I'd say they are really happy getting to pick Petty and it's a situation where we didn't need a young key defender in terms of really balancing the list but it was still a great opportunity to add a good player to an important position. A best available pick but then a little diplomacy where he doesn't want to declare the kid a jet yet and also a nod to how nice it is to keep a deep list of talls

The subtext in Ox's obvious observation is all about avoiding complacency ie improvement is not a given and will need to be fought hard for, more so if there's any adversity on the injury front. Just messaging for the young bucks in the playing group....from that wise old owl the Ox!

I don't always agree with Saty, but i love reading his insights and the stuff he gets from players. Plus he's a great loyal demon.

It's somehow comforting, in a weird kind of a way, to see that MFCSS extends beyond the firewall of Demonland. If nothing else, this does prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Ox IS one of us!

Not just that... check out these gun top 30 selections from the 2001 "super" draft: 4 - Graham Polak 5 - Xavier Clarke 6 - Ashley Sampi 7 - David Hale 9 - Luke Molan 10 - Sam Power 11 - Richard Cole 14 - Ashley Watson 15 - Barry Brooks 16 - Rick Ladson 18 - Shane Harvey 20 - Daniel Elstone 22 - Mark Seaby 23 - Charlie Gardiner 25 - Steven Armstrong 26 - Aaron Rogers 27 - Tom Davidson 28 - Mark Powell 30 - Rod Crowe Point in case, those pulling their hair out about trading out of the 1st round of next year's draft, should really take a step back. We acquired a set-in-stone star intercept defender, our greatest deficiency at the time. And if you look at 2001, picks 1,2,3,8,13,24,36,37,40,58 resulted in stars, having 1st rounders was not a requirement to get one. In fact a real bunch rookies coming on out of nowhere really helped the reputation of this draft, with Carazzo (5), Jamar (6), Quinten Lynch (19), Matthew Boyd (23), Nathan Bock (25), Sandilands (33), Ben Rutten (40) and Marty Mattner (51) all taken as rookies, who went on to long careers. Recruiting is more of a refined science these days, but you still get the odd Jonathon O'Rourke, Jimmy Toumpas, Blaine Boekhorst, Nathan Freeman or Ben Lennon.

Can we please go back to abusing each other instead of talking about old actresses?

List Size For 2013, all clubs (*except Gold Coast and GWS Giants) now operate under the following list sizes. Primary List Size Category A Rookies Category BRookies Total Rookies (Maximum) Total 38 (Minimum) 6 3 9 47 39 5 3 8 47 40 (Maximum) 4 3 7 47 * Gold Coast Suns: Primary List 42; Rookie List 9 * GWS Giants: Primary List 44-50; Rookie List 9 This is from the AFL web site melbourne have 40 on the main list and 4 rookies unless stefan has not played AFL for at least 3 years in any form then he is eligible for the rookie B list otherwise there is no room.

Not sure if this been posted already... http://www.afl.com.au/video/2017-11-29/fit-hogan-returns-with-point-to-prove

Let's stay on topic guys.

You are right I also forgot to put Hunt on the list. 22 years old and 41 games

You are right nut. Having said that, I find the decision by Trump to retweet anti-muslim videos posted online by the far-right Britain First party very worrying. Even the mob at InfoWars described it as 'bad optics'. We've gone from targeting the legitimate threat of Islamic extremism to open season on anyone with a middle eastern appearance. Here's Trump acolyte Ann Coulter: Confronted with the suggestion that she was spreading "fake news" by claiming one of the films showed a "migrant" beating up a Dutch man, when in fact both people pictured were citizens of the Netherlands. Coulter said: "Nobody cares about `migrant' against 'child of migrant'. He is not a 10th-generation Dutchman, he is beating up a 10th-generation Dutchman." She added: "Anybody can look at this video and see it is a Middle Easterner. If you would prefer, we'll say 'Middle Easterners born in the Netherlands.' but if you don't accept that, we're going straight back to `Middle Eastern' in another 30 seconds. It could not be more supremely irrelevant - it is a difference without a distinction. "The issue is all these Middle Easterners and Muslims being brought in. To pretend there's no difference between a 10th-generation Dutch person and a migrant or the child of a migrant is preposterous." As the grandson of Holocaust survivors, this language is downright frightening. The references to 10th generation Dutchmen suggest notions of racial purity, while the line about 'anybody can see it is a middle easterner' is beyond belief. Forget wearing yellow stars (or similar) to denote ethnicity / race / religion / origin - anyone who looks middle eastern is fair game. I know I definitely don't look like a 4th-generation Australian, I look much more middle eastern. Will I be spared when I inform the marauding hordes that I'm Jewish and not Muslim?

A couple of photos from training today.

Sorry fellas something came up and I couldn't make it this morning

Not a comment on The situation Colin finds himself in but it must be difficult making the transition from full time footballers to civilians particularly if you haven’t planned ahead. You go from making 100’s of thousands of dollars a year and in an environment where you are told where to be, what to eat and when to exercise. You have the mateship and adrenaline. Your picture is in the papers and your playing deeds are featured on the tele each week. You can get into any night club in the country and people who wouldn’t normally pay you any attention hang off your every word just because you play football And then all that is gone, literally overnight. The rivers of gold stop and the security of being micro managed ends. I remember reading an article (by perhaps Tim Boyle) who, after retiring, was amazed how quickly his body went from being elite athlete back to normal person. Not only do they do it physically but socially and possibly financially they become mere mortals. Psychologically that must be a confusing trip.

Great write up @DeeSpencer. I don't often get to training but your reports are gold on this site. Detailed, accurate and no bs. Much appreciated

That's a protest against Donald Trump.

Thanks but as pointed out by Moon, it was another poster from bigfooty, I mainly just lurk and read others posts haha The only posts I usually make are to report on the Maroochydore training's each year because I live up on the Gold Coast and like to make the drive up. I don't think they stack up quite as well as this guys though since I'm an engineer and not a linguist; I tend to look at the specific of training like who beat who in drills.

Good time to practice some wet weather footy.

I hope they turn out and don't have an indoors session for you MD.

Your dedication to the cause will be rewarded.

All I was having lunch and a drink at Coopers Inn Hotel today and the owners were telling me that Charlie is a very close family friend and they were saying that Charlie is very tough and should play very early in the season. One was saying that he and Charlie made their debut for the club on the same day in the seconds. Charlie was 15 and the person telling me the story was 34. Charlie was just about best on the ground.

If the Dogs can finish 11th after finishing 1st, then any team is in danger of slipping down the ladder, even without injuries.

I hate to do this but if the Ginger Ninja had a decent boot on him we also have a red rooster.

Just got home from work and really enjoyed this. Jrono where have been?...only 10 posts ...really? Loved reading your work. Clearly you're a wordsmith/ writer and have been engaged with the club for a while. It's greatly appreciated by us office bums, even though for me the "office" is a nursery shed trying to grow a fungus.

This seems like an 'I'm still annoyed about them trading Watts' type of comment from the Ox. It's strange. He says we'll go south if we get injuries to Hogan, Weideman and Lever - any side that loses some of it's important key forward and defensive players will struggle, but he fails to recognise how we battled plenty of injuries last season and were still competitive throughout. Weird stuff from the Ox.

I'd say we had a few injuries to key players last year as well . . . AND . . . moved up the ladder.

Surprised so many are bothered by this. I doubt there was a player available better than what Pedersen and McDonald did and there's always Weideman who can be used alongside one of those 2 if needed. Having a back up would take away from Mitch King's development time at Casey and he started coming on in the VFL last year. If he gets a solid preseason now he'll relish the playing time at VFL level. It would also all but rule Filipovic out as a viable AFL player because without the VFL reserves there's no where for him to play besides riding the pine at Casey and maybe getting a few minutes game time forward or in the ruck. I like that we've backed a couple of young guys in and it might not take that long for them to become worthy back ups and if/when that happens we'll have a much stronger list than if we stunted their growth with a dud.

Dees win their first seven, but they're not taken seriously, ala North a couple of years ago...until... They thump the Swans and Bombers in consecutive weeks and sit on top of the ladder with a percentage of 152.3% Boys get around Wattsy after the Port game - he kicks 3, but Hogan kicks 7