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I'm down from Canberra for a few days, and of course, training was an important part of the itinerary. The highlights for me were: - the overall intensity of the work. The pace was high for the full two and a bit hours of the session (in very warm conditions), and the tackling was 'for keeps'. - the camraderie between the boys was palpable. Voice and high fives throughout. - Hunty and Billy look absolutuly 'ripped,' and I'm sure the coaches would have been rapt with their track work today. Very excting. - Jordan Lewis. So very clean and professional. Will be an outstanding acquisition for us in 2017. - Maxy's leadership. Directing traffic and encouraging others. An aspect l hadn't seen at the admittedly limited number of training sessions I can get to. - meeting a few Demonlanders for the first time. Believe it or not, they are actually 'real' people.

Forgot to mention Harmes in my earlier post. He was involved in everything, and if today was any indication, his kicking has come a fair way since last season. He was near the front in all the running. ....... and finally, allowing for my perpetual optimism, number 9 seemed to have markedly improved his agility. Not sure about his pace, but certainly more agile imo.

Tim, thanks for the shots including my 10 month old wheaten terrier, Fergus. I was standing next to you. For the benefit of all, the pre-Xmas camp was at Mt Disappointment...near Whittlesea. Sounds like it was quite a hitout and hopefully it will live in name only, other than for Dom Tyson! Concur with the other comments posted. For mine: Viney more intense than ever, now that he's back in the main group, Oscar looks appreciably bulked up but still makes some basic execution errors, Watts made a couple of uncharacteristic errors (missed passes, dropped marks) and left the track early with some leg complaint, Spencer looks the best I've seen him in terms of executing the drills, Bull Smith's hands are a weapon, Keilty looks like he belongs, not sure Hulett is ultimately going to get there, Weideman noticeably bigger, Vandenberg moving much more freely, Garland shanked a kick or two (and I'm a fan). Overall, a very positive hitout for the first day back in warm conditions with a northerly breeze.

I haven't commented in much detail about the activity this morning as it seemed to be relatively low key, going through the motions. The weather is quite warm and humid in Melbourne today and there was a light breeze blowing across Gosch's Paddock. I did notice that McDonald and Pederson were doing a lot of the stuff with the main group, Melksham was also back into the main program. There were no real stand outs for me... but Petracca looked clean (Oscar not so!), Lewis was notably accurate by foot (even surprising himself with one right foot pass that hit its mark... much to the skipper's joy!). Spencer looks fit and ready on standby should the unthinkable happen! Jack Viney loved being involved in the main program and Bernie always delights with his skill by foot and hand.

Salem in the main group. Must be fine!

Enjoy! https://www.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=HC4jRw&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=4&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=1&clickable=1 On review I found a couple of more worth a look https://six6six.smugmug.com/frame/slideshow?key=XJ8fDC&autoStart=1&captions=0&navigation=0&playButton=0&randomize=0&speed=3&transition=fade&transitionSpeed=2&clickable=1

" The 21-year-old is still in Perth, with the club giving him and teammate Dean Kent an extended break with family. " He's gone! (Isn't it nice to not have to say that this year)

The players didn't think so, and they are the ones that matter, it wasn't at all about bonding, it was all about taking them to what they thought were their limits and taking them past it, put a negative slant on it if you wish to

The whole group just before the xmas break went on a Boot Camp style, high intensity, sleep depreviation camp with a few ex-special forces guys. The whole squad went. I don't know if I can give out specifics of what they did but I believe there will me a media release/video of the camp. What I do wanna say is over the 3 days, they had less then 2 hours sleep, while doing more intense physical work then they ever have at any training session. Was some crazy stuff.

My standout at training today was Hunt.. he reads the play beautifully and has license to leave his man to intercept, which he did often

Got here a little early, had a chat to Dom Tyson. He is waiting on scans on his right knee. Doesn't know the outcome yet. Hopes that he has enough in the bank to make round 1 if the scans are positive. He is just walking laps this morning

" The substance wasn’t revealed." I've heard that before.

It's most likely pretty well irrelevant at this stage. He's suffering from something where there's a lot to be done before he can deal with what happened at Essendon. This is personal, we should wish him well in his recovery and leave him alone for now ...

Well when I signed up there was no woman's AFL!! Max is awesome as an avatar - he's staying. Sometimes it is easier to be "thought of" as a male, but after being referred to as "he" a few times, I felt obliged to come clean.

The two things are entirely different.

Camp finished 21st Dec - was definitely Whittlesea - they were inland in bush - before catching the bus there they were at Brighton beach. Just letting you know - I am a she rather than a he

The posters that report on training are great and always appreciated.

Did one couple of years ago pre season when i was up playing SANFL. We did a whole weekend and i swear i only got about 2.5 hour sleep. It was the biggest waste of time of my life. Majority of my teammates all agreed that it had nothing to do with footy at all and did not benefit them come game day one bit. This was discussed on an end of season break up. One guy put a disk out of his back from these big barrels we had to pick up and carry up hill. Begged the SAS captain to stop due to the sharp pain that was jolting down his back only to cop an absolute spray. End result he missed 6 months of footy and potentially getting drafted... [censored] idiots. I don't give 2 shits if its supposed to to test your mental side but FFS we are playing footy not diving into the middle of Syria with a back pack full of artillery weapons.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/james-hird-taken-to-hospital-with-major-health-scare/news-story/d3510ef3cd113de4b1928e08aaaee9b4 Quote: But Channel Seven said Hird was taken to Cabrini Hospital at “10.07pm last night after an intentional poisoning overdose”. The substance wasn’t revealed. It’s believed Hird left the hospital earlier today and is receiving care elsewhere. I have zero respect for Hird and abhor what he did but I don't wish him any ill, after all he has children, family and friends who have been and are seriously affected by the trauma he has and is going thru. If that quote is correct Hird is clearly not a well man. I think this is a time to put grievances aside.

We have a real beauty there. Watching these Hunt highlights really reinforced how quick he is but also as you say how well he reads the ball. He uses these skills in tandem to cover loose men so well, a skill that is critical in the modern game with its use of zones. he is super gutsy as well. There has been a bit of talk about Alan Johnson in the favorite and best players threads and in some respects Hunt shares some similar traits. There are a couple of very short bits of AJ play in this video but they demonstrate my point a little bit, particularly his dash.

Answering my own question. Hogan and Kent back next Monday http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-05/jack-viney-back-on-track-as-melbourne-returns-for-2017

Bernie just copped Oliver with a shoulder to the head... young bloke shaking it out, then lays a hard tackle on Spencer

Not yet, anyway. You know Gil loves his rule changes!

Kicking, kicking and more kicking. If he tidies it up and develops a bit more touch by foot then it's almost the skies the limit. His distance is good but needs to work on his consistency.

Haven't noticed Hogan, Kent or Hibberd. Salem looks fine from here

The training camp was in Whittlesea, they began at AAmi stadium, Had a huge workout on beach after that then bus to the camp, they walked for hours, slept very little and had to guard an area on very little sleep. Apparently the Demons were the first group ever where no one was caught asleep whilst they were supposed to be on guard! The Demon I spoke to said this was by far the hardest thing he has done in his life. He came out of it uninjured other than huge blisters from sit ups in the sand, but he was exhausted for days afterward.

Brad Miller and Steven Armstrong are my number one - met them when I was 8 and they were 18 hadn't played a game but just loved them (very handsome men). Did a lot for me, called me on my under12's grand final as Steven and Brad asked to come but they played the night before and had recovery. Asked me to dance at the b&f. Things like that mean so much to a kid and even now I'm still very grateful. Next up, David Neitz! When I was 3 I had my first picture with him and took one every year until I hit 18 then we had a alcohol Bev together at one of the b&f and he couldn't believe how time flew! loved Lyon! Had a fight with his eldest son who pushed in front of me at a Melbourne clinic. Said girls should even play footy so I punched him in the face haha (was the demon in me) Nathan Jones - loves the club like I do and is loyal. Not skilful but passionate and that's what I love. farmer! I haven't really had any other favs

You do know I live in Perth?

What do you mean not being paid as such? He still gets a decent wage for someone his age, and it's not that much less then the 1st year national draftees. But he is absolutely loving it, seems to be settling into the training really well with the rest of the group. He said the camp was the hardest thing he has ever done (the things they had to do were insane, like most people would probably die from exhaustion insane) but otherwise it's all good.

Sorry to disappoint you but I was asked to reconsider my decision to provide a less jaundiced view of proceedings This type of training can make you stronger mentally, it is your brain telling your body you can't do something, so if you know you are capable of going that extra step you will I am all for anything, legal of course, that may give the team an edge, coz every team is striving for the same thing Goody and Macca have the physicality now that they have been striving for, now the mental strength needs to be instiled, which we have in some like Lewis, Jones, Viney, but we need in all 40+ The perceived mental fragility in the players is something supporters have been banging on about, when something different is tried to try and alleviate that perception, some whinge about that I have done my 15 years in army browns and greens and loved every minute of it, sleep deprivation included

I'm with you, rjay. The one I went on was in Lithgow back in 2010. Had ex SAS guys screaming in your face that you're a useless c$&t when being 'Patrol Leader' because your cohort is getting shot to pieces by snipers. One them had a nickname of 'Fifty' and an actual name of Callum (50 Cal rifle) which he thought was really cool. We got off to a bad start when I started calling him 'Low Cal' instead.. I thought it was hilarious, him not so much. We were starved and kept to about 6 hours sleep over 4 nights with lots of patrols. At the end of the event when you're so hungry they let you have a hot shower and feed you huge fat T bone steak and several cold Froffies - then they shove a satisfaction survey under your nose (perfect timing, huh) and you're all la la with a belly full of beef and beer and you give the thumbs up ?. The course was grouse! About a month later comes the realisation that it was a complete waste of time. We had one bloke do his knee and another twist an ankle that resulted in LTI's.

As much as I can't stand this man, his club, and what has happened I wish him all the best and hope he finds a way out of the mire he appears to be in.

Depends if you're looking at it from a bonding point of view or a decision making exercise. It's often easy to get away with things at training because their fresh and probably not going as hard as you would against an actual opponent, therefore their decision making should be slightly easier. I'm hoping by putting them under stress that'll help at the back end of an important game. Still will probably only make a small % difference.

Thanks Drunkn. I bet DC is felling the pinch. In my (much) younger days i had a few sessions of 3 days with only a couple of hours sleep, but it had nothing to do with football.

Whole squad except for 3 - 2 injuries and one personal reasons

Cheers for the updates WW

1 Allen Jakovich - the most entertaining player I've ever seen bar none! Absolutely loved this guy was the reason I loved going to the footy 91-94 - was shattered when he left 2 Jeff Farmer - well, ditto above. He was every bit as entertaining as Jako and his 98 and 2000 seasons were just phenomenal 3 David Schwarz - absolutely shattered when he did his knees his 94 season was close to impeccable especially the r24-SF fortnight 4 Garry Lyon - my childhood hero, was THE Melbourne player during the Northey years 5 Stephen Tingay - from the moment he burst onto the scene as a teenager kicking the winning goal against the Roy's I loved this guy. Built and played like a machine unfortunately like all those above his body let him down 6 David Neitz - loved the way he bullied opposition defenders. From his early years at CHB to his club record games/goals he was a true MFC legend 7 Darren Bennett - i have an affinity for full forwards and this guy was the first one we had since I started watching footy in 1987. Could roost the ball a country mile and had a massive reach too. Went on to become a Hall of Famer with the San Diego Chargers in the NFL where he revolutionised the punt 8 Liam Jurrah - even a more short lived career than Jakovich but this guy was just miraculous. Could seemingly do anything on the field, unfortunately he joined the club at the wrong time and his personal issues were too much for him to overcome. One of the more incredible and subsequently sad stories the footy world has seen 9 Jim Stynes - his mate Garry Lyon often said he is THE best footy story and I tend to agree. Adventure, heartbreak, redemption and tragedy the guy was will power personified. His work on the field overtaken by his work off it with the Reach. Saved the club in it's darkest hour. 10 could throw a blanket over a bunch of others, Obst, Yze, Johnstone chief amongst them. Viney, Gawn and Hogan from the younger brigade. Unfortunately I'm too young for Robbie, I was 5 when he retired but I still have memories of r22 1987 and that classic finals campaign

The game you're referring to came in the twilight of Robbie's career - game number 270 (of 272) after nearly 15 seasons and his first final. The club's first in 23 years. On the other hand, RDB played in his first grand final in his second season and his first premiership a year later whilst still a teenager and then he played in five more. There was never a need during RDB's career for a spectator to make a comment like that which spoke for the different circumstances under which the two played. If the essence of the game at the elite level is winning premierships then that of itself puts Barassi well in front because his efforts not only got us there but he was often the match winner in the most important game of the year.

This topic requires such a personal and subjective choice that all choices are correct. In particular, I agree with both Whispering and Vogon for the reasons they provided although my own choices are different. There is a story about Robbie that sums up why, unlike Whispering, I believe that Robbie should be considered a favourite at least the equal of RDB. Robbie had all the qualities listed for RDB as well as determination and persistence (so did RDB) as well as the singular, incomparable and eye catching beauty and grace of his game. In his first final against NM in 1987, early in the first quarter, Robbie flew over the pack in the goal square, marked the ball and kicked a goal. As we cheered, a voice in the crowd yelled out "I can go home now, that's all I wanted to see". The Demon supporters in the crowd understood immediately. I bet no one ever said that about RDB. That makes them equal.

I hope that in a few year's time I will be able to include in a list of my top ten favourite players three or four or even more of our current younger players. In the meantime, for all those of my vintage, there's only one player who is a fair way ahead of Robbie Flower with daylight further to the next on the list - Ronald Dale Barassi who personified all that one looks for in a footballer, strength, skill, courage, leadership, honesty and football smarts (although I guess 52 years ago I would have said the one thing he lacked was loyalty but that's an issue of definition). Six time premiership player and a critical member of each of those teams over a decade in our golden years. Ironically, the fact that he remains to this day so far ahead of the rest of the field (and this is not meant to denigrate some of our better players over the years) is one of the reasons why the club hasn't tasted the ultimate in success since he wore the # 31 guernsey.

Can't believe anyone could omit Robbie from their list!! Well, perhaps the young uns who didn't see him play have an excuse. I loved Garry Lyon as a player. But as a bloke ... hmm. So I guess that's why not many posters have not included him in their lists.

Bit younger so haven't seen as many but 1. Jeff white 2. Jeff farmer 3.aaron davey 4. Cam bruce 5. David Schwartz 6. Todd viney 7. Jack viney 8. Jayden hunt 9. Max gawn 10. Nev Jetta

How could i forget the skipper. Number 10 with a bullet he's been the heart and soul of the club through its worst decade, the only reason I turned up to a lot of games in recent years

D. Cuthbertson- Epping best export and a stellar start to his football life with the Dee's! he help us bury the Shin boners too! P. Prymke - Champ of a defender marred by injury S. Odwyer- I loved the big Gingers aggression and the frees he made the opposition player earn. D. Kowal- Best plodder I've seen! We lost strawb for this dude.... P. Hopgood- I like Paul for having a David Boon like physique, but none of his sporting prowess. C. Lamb- This guy could play, but his high flying spoil he put on in defence that had him land on his head stuffed him. C. Nettlebeck - This poor sod should have been a cook with the amount wooden spoons he collected! J. Shannahan- This was the steal of the century! The Aint's are still reeling over this one. The best player to pull on the number 1 Dees jumper S. Chisholm- I a few bleak years this man was a bright light for the Demons. He brought home countless Grand Final Sprint victories for the Dees fans to savour C. Smoker- I just like his name!!! So did big Rex Hunt.

Also Robbie was a one club player.

I think it's easy to have favourite players in poor years/teams. Robbie and Junior are examples. I don't remember Junior much before Bailey's years but he was a beacon then and just so admirable. I enjoyed that. It's succeeding in hard environments I like and that makes him a "favourite". Favourites is little to do with "best" although they are linked. How can Jurrah be a favourite with what he's done since he left? Favourites have got to be people you admire. Lyon was a great player but a jerk of a bloke. I was his player sponsor once and he was just rude. I put in a lot of money for me at the time and was lucky enough to get him. He made it obvious he didn't want anything to do with the "sponsorship". He attended one function during the year, said hello and excused himself saying he'd be back. No, never saw him again. My sponsorship bought me literally about 10 seconds of contact. He'd never be a favourite of mine but it doesn't stop him being a great player and captain. As Biff says, hard not to have him in the "best" ten.

My top ten are Ron Barassi Robbie Flower Jim Stynes Sean Wight Cameron Bruce Jack Watts Jeff Farmer Max Gawn Bob McKenzie Don Williams Special mention to Stuart Spencer and Stephen Tingay.

Sadly, I don't have "great" memories of too many. Good, but not great. How could I ? I liked Ricky "Steamboat" Jackson, Obst, Icke, Ingerson, Green, Yze, Yeater and countless others. What about Brett Lovett and those handballs ? Not to mention Glenn 'hamstring" Lovett was a very good player who couldn't get his body right. I saw Chopper Lovell train at the G when he was a 16 year old a year before he came over fron Tasmania. He became good, but not great. Adrian Battiston was a ripping bloke who I got to know. I had high hopes for Lally. Sean Charles too. How good could Warren Dean have been ? What about Schwarz in '94 ? Kevin Dyson's right leg and those 60 metre drop punts ? The legacy Jacovich could have left. Darren Bennett's last quarter heroics at Windy Hill. Seddon was meant to be a star from Tasmania that every club was chasing. What about Glen Swann, Darren Cuthbertson and their highlight games ? Young potential stars in Reynolds, O'Brien and O'Sullivan ? Vardy from Adelaide and the early days of Byron. Jeff White for a while ? And then there was big Carl. But alas, it wasn't to be. I pick Hogan, Petracca, and Oliver on hope as much as anything. I'd throw in Viney, Brayshaw, and Hunt too, but it would look a bit silly; and it's just based on that word again, hope. If we win a flag only Flower would remain from my original list. The rest will be premiership players.

Can't pick just one! I hope it's Salem. He's got all the tools to be a really damaging player for us, just needs to keep healthy and build consistency. From training reports it seems Hogan and Brayshaw will take another big step up next year. I'm also expecting Petracca to build his tank more and impact games for longer. He could seriously explode that kid!

Brayshaw. Looking seriously fit at the moment.