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Nothing less SWYL....

Doggies set a precedent, they proved it was possible. They believed. Im hearing good things about Jordan Lewis setting precedents. Really showing the side where the bar is set and what is expected. We must believe.

To make top 4, a team has to be seriously good. To make the finals, just more than average, or with a bit of luck. Hawthorn in 2016 made finals based on winning 6 games by less than 10 points. They scraped into top 4 after beating a miserable Collingwood by a lucky kick in the dying seconds by Jack Fitzpatrick. North scraped into finals by winning just 2 more games than they lost. If a Billy Stretch kick had gone to the other side of the goal post, the Saints would have been playing in lieu of North. Now good teams win the close games, but the margin between making it or not can come down to that luck/fortune factor. We were in the race for September but for 2 appalling losses against Carlton and Essendon. We weren't lucky against North, we were against GC the second time. Without changing all that much, or improving just that fraction, we should be playing finals in 2017. We now have the talent and importantly the work ethic to win games. Like North, Hawthorn and even WB in 2016, winning just a couple of those tight games will get us there. Injuries....well that's another story. Particularly if our AA ruckman gets hurt.

It's that thing that other teams play on the telly every September, while we prepare for the draft. Draft time is exciting. Those finals sides don't know what they are missing.

Good Side Macca. I would have Danny Hughes at Full Back with S Wight replacing Balls who on interchange could also play forward

And let's not just be satisfied by getting there. Win them all is the only way.

Here's mine ... B: Alan Johnson Sean Wight Steven Febey HB: Brett Lovett Gary Hardeman Rod Grinter C: Stan Alves Greg Wells Rob Flower HF: Brian Wilson David Schwartz Garry Lyon F: Allen Jakovich David Neitz Jeff Farmer R: Jim Stynes Todd Viney Nathan Jones IN: Travis Johnstone Laurie Fowler Adem Yze Jeff White Emer: Stephen Tingay, Russell Robertson, Matthew Febey, Danny Hughes, Ray Biffin, Greg Parke, Gerard Healy, David Williams, Graham Yeats, Steven Stretch, Brad Green, Cameron Bruce, Earl Spalding Not many from more recent times but what is interesting is that 8 of the above came to the club during RDB's time and another 6 players came to the club from the end of 1985 through to 1987. So in the space of only 6 or 7 years during the 80's the club recruited 14 decent footballers. Let's hope that history can repeat itself in the current era ... that will mean that we'll need to recruit well in the next 2/3 years and our last 3 or 4 years worth of recruiting will need to bear fruit as well. Another interesting point is that only 1 player from our 1980 list managed to last until the 1987 season ... I stand corrected on that point but regardless, it does highlight that Barassi turned over our list to a level not seen previously. Roos did something very similar within his 3 year tenure. The parallels between both coaching stints by both men are quite profound. Those who saw our run of premierships during the Norm Smith era would no doubt have a vastly different team.

Finals are a distinct possibility ... but any optimism, hope or faith needs to have a degree of substance attached. Previously (like many others I suspect) I've been optimistic on the back of a lot of hope & faith. I posted the following points in another thread but the comments do pertain to this thread also ... We've got about 10 players (Viney, Hogan, Jones, Tyson, Lewis, Gawn, Vince, T-Mac, Watts & Jetta) who could be classed as being good to excellent but we're going to need much more than that if we're going to play finals and be a realistic contender. However, a few of those 10 players have a few question marks surrounding them with regards to absolute consistent form, disposal efficiency, manic desire and age. They all need to improve actually, even if only marginally. Also, if we can get at least half of the following players ... Hunt, Harmes, Oliver, Weideman, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oscar, Frost, Salem & Stretch stepping it up to a good/very good level in the next year or so, we'll be well on our way. There are others who might reach that level too. There's a lot of potential but we need to see some real substance. We also need Goodwin to be at least a very good coach. With a half decent run with injuries, I'm hopeful that we'll see some action in September.

Welcome to 2017, hopefully seeing the Dees back in the finals.

Trump's Cabinet Biff to be head of justice and economic development BBO to run the Presidents Secret Service and Department of Complaints Moon would be in charge of the Department of Defense and Propaganda Whisper may run the courts but his honesty and integrity would be a problem for Mr Trump

I hope you are right SWYL. I will indeed be there, wherever it is played, with bells on. Perhaps a few pre-game drinks with the DL faithful.

We've got this! GO DEES!

Another self-proclaimed 'expert' that I've never heard of and just another puff piece with no real substance. The clear differentiator for me is that we finally have some real depth within the list for the first time in yonks! Nearly 44 blokes who could come in to the team and play a role on game day and not look out of place - and, they're all competing for a spot in the firsts. When Roos and Jackson came on board four (4) years ago we barely had half a dozen best 22 locks and the rest were mediocre VFL players at best. We are a team at long last and one that wants success for one another. The individuality that plagued the list in years gone by has been replaced with a team firs culture. We look to have nailed the draft first rounds at long last and have found some great value in later picks. Taylor has been a steal. For all of the apparent rogering we get from the Pies with ordinarily trades, I think we're a long way in front with the recruiting method Taylor has brought to the club. First class. The development team is second to none and quite frankly I think the additions of Chaplin (who had an offer to stay at Punt Rd), Egan and Rooke point to and underline the quality of the environment Roos and co have put in place. People want to come to the club because they can see the raw talent on the list and want to be a part of developing it, pushing it hard and seeing it unleash on the field. Misson and Rob Jackson have done a tremendous job, there can't be any question about their commitment to the playing group and driving of standards. I have no concerns at all that Goodwin will not measure up. There's no apparent ego which is commonly seen across the AFL senior coaching a ranks. He's humble, assured and a footy nerd. I think he'll be a tactical genius on game day. The boys love him - what more could you want. My point is, is that there is so much more beneath the surface that has/is/will enable the team to out-perform what the supposed guru sports writers can only see above the surface. They see win/loss and factor in natural progression or regression and out pops the puff from their PC's. You, me and the majority of posters and readers of this forum know that there's a very different feel to this club right now. We live and breathe the club every day and know when things have turned a corner. I think we've turned a hair-pin corner and will ascend much faster than Mr Bicks thinks. Ed: have since learnt the articles author is Mark Bickley. Makes no diff to my post.

2016: THE YEAR THAT WAS by Whispering Jack As the final siren blared at Simonds Stadium to mark the end of Paul Roos' coaching stint on Saturday 27 August, 2016, the curtain came down on one of the Melbourne Football Club's least productive decades in its history, one in which every season had produced a losing record in terms of the results of games played and percentages and a consequent failure to participate in finals. The scoreboard at the ground was no more flattering in that it showed Geelong had beaten Melbourne by 111 points. The Demons last taste of finals glory was in 2006 when they overcame a shaky start to the season to finish with 13½ wins and a percentage of 109.66. They beat St Kilda in an elimination final before losing to Fremantle in the semi in Perth. The steep decline and the dark period in the club's history that followed has been well documented, as has been the club's slow rise from the abyss. When the dust settled on 2016 the club had risen a further two places on the ladder above the year before, recording ten wins and but for the young team hitting the wall and losing its last two matches, a positive win/loss record and a finals appearance might have resulted. Had it not been for the enormity of that final round defeat the club would have finished with a percentage in positive territory above 100 for the first time in a decade. Despite the way things panned out at the very end, it was pleasing to see the club's progression since 2013 when it won a mere two games followed by four and seven over the next two seasons to ten in 2016. A further step forward in the same vein will almost certainly see a return to finals participation next year. Time will tell. The statistical improvement on the field overshadowed somewhat by the disappointment of the season's ending doesn't tell the full story of a season of many highlights. The most telling aspect of the continued rise in the team's performance was the fact that it was achieved by turning to its youth. From very early on, it was clear that the intention was to blood young talent and to give it time to settle into the hurly burly of the game. While the results were at first mixed, there were some pleasing efforts as the team held its place in mid table. There were times when the selectors might been tempted to revert to bringing in some more experienced from the ranks at Casey but they persisted with the policy and we saw a late season charge of three consecutive wins including the triumph against reigning premier and then ladder leader Hawthorn in Round 20. The club's affiliate at Casey finished as minor premiers in the VFL but then went down to Footscray in the Grand Final at Etihad Stadium. Next year they will be known as the Casey Demons. There were some great personal achievements - Max Gawn's elevation to All Australian ruckman status, Jack Viney becoming the club champion, four Rising Star nominations - Clayton Oliver, Christian Petracca, James Harmes and Oscar McDonald (with Jayden Hunt unlucky to miss and Sam Weideman poised for next year), but on field happenings weren't the only highlights of the year for the Melbourne Football Club. The club recorded continued growth in membership numbers (now projected to go beyond 40,000 in 2017) and crowd attendances and it posted a substantial profit. Melbourne's pioneering work for women in the sport and the women's game was recognised when it was awarded a licence to field a side in the inaugural year of the AFL Womens League competition. On Sunday, 5 February, 2017 the first team will run out onto Casey Fields in an historic encounter against Brisbane Lions. Much of the good work both on and off the field can be attributed to the club's board and administration led by Chairman Glenn Bartlett, CEO Peter Jackson and the professional team of people they have working under them. Although Paul Roos now leaves the scene he has laid the groundwork and presided over what promises to be a seamless transition to life under new coach Simon Goodwin. While the club might have faltered and lapsed from time to time in past seasons due to inexperience on the field, that is one excuse that will not be made when Goodwin coaches his first Melbourne team in a game for premiership points in a few month's time. He should have at his disposal three new players with substantial AFL experience - Jordan Lewis, Michael Hibberd and Jake Melksham to add to the likes of Nathan Jones, Bernie Vince, Tom McDonald and a bevy of young up and comers at his disposal. A new era awaits.

Interesting too, macca, that only 12 out of the 22 were one-team players

The forward line is elite but top heavy and the backline is ordinary for a team picked over a long period. And of course the midfield "rovers" are ordinary by "elite" standard. It's why we've struggled to really impose ourselves over the journey. I reckon when history is written we've got a couple of midfielders in our team at the moment that will make that team. Actually I reckon there are a lot that could. Oliver, Viney J, T Mac, Petracca, Hogan and Hunt have shown me enough to indicate they'd give it a real push in time. Oh, and of course Gawn. It all bodes well for the future. Like Pro Tingay and Healy are musts for me for Grinter and Travis.

left out two brownlow medallists..............but that's ok, i agree......lol let's hope that in 3-5 years we can replace half that team

Very good effort, except for Travis Johnstone. If I had a second 22 I doubt he'd make it. You've ommitted Gerard Healy and he'd be one of my first picked. I'd also remove Grinter from a half-back flank and replace him with Tingay, who could play both wing and HB.

He's coached two AFL teams to premierships so hats off to him.

And our womens team has an oval on which to play their games, at Casey.

i reckon the boys had the Carlton and bombers wins banked before the ball was bounced and if that's the case it's something we need to stamp out very quickly. We can't afford to believe our own hype.

Finals? As a MFC supporter, I am not sure what that actually means. Can you explain the meaning to me SWYL?

Alternative interpretation: they have the highest membership.

Or ....except as some sort of academic exercise... who GAF about rankings? It's all about performance and results.

Drunkn, any rational observer would concur that the Casey / MFC arrangement is operating optimally. There are control freaks who forget or choose to ignore the origins of the agreement and the stark choices confronting a MFC that was on its knees in every sense at the time it was made. For them it's something that could be terminated tomorrow in view of our recent financial turnaround and potential future onfield success. There is a hubris and arrogance that goes with such a view that fortunately doesn't pervade the current MFC administration. Fortunately those in charge understand the reputational kudos that attaches to meeting your commitments and making them work optimally.

In the past picking a "best 22" at this time of year has made many (me included) look foolish mainly because we haven't had a best 22, we've had a best 6 or 8 and the rest haven't been up to it. This year on known form I reckon we've got 24 players who I would consider "best 22" with some good depth and some development. My 24 "best 22" are Hogan, Jones, Salem, Watts, Petracca, Lewis, Viney, Brayshaw, Gawn, Tyson, Oliver, Hibberd, Stretch, Kent, Frost, Melksham, van den Berg, Vince, McDonald x 2, Hunt, Garlett, Jetta and Harmes. Very few if any "best 22's" selected in this thread have anyone else other than Pedersen and Weideman as third tall forwards. It's just a matter of time before Weideman fills that vacancy but I don't think he's AFL standard on what I've seen. That doesn't mean he won't get picked. Bugg, Kennedy, Garland, Trengove and Wagner (and Spencer for Gawn) can all come in and do a job and the balance are all developing and all would be a "chance" of making AFL standard. Unlike other years these players will have to be playing very well to get a game on merit (other than injury related) and I'm hoping a couple do because it will indicate the addition(s) of good players. IMO we are not GF contenders this year (although the Dogs have presented an argument to the contrary) and one of the most interesting things will be to see what part of our selection decisions will be given to development rather than best 22. It's a fascinating year on so many levels. Pity it's still about 13 weeks away.

THE FENCE BEST 18 B: Neville Jetta, Tom McDonald, Michael HibberdHB: Jayden Hunt, Sam Frost, Bernie VinceC: Dom Tyson, Nathan Jones, Billy StretchHF: Dean Kent, Sam Weideman, Christian PetraccaF: Jeff Garlett, Jesse Hogan, Jack WattsR: Max Gawn, Jordan Lewis, Jack VineyI/C: Jake Melksham, Angus Bryshaw, Clarrie Choo Choo, Christian Salem Emerg Van der Berg, Harmes, Pedo

This seems like as good a place as any to post this. A glorious victory and a very neat passage of play.

I'm guessing McQueen has Stuie but his 'just another puff piece with no real substance' comment is accurate. Most Demonlanders would have far more knowledge of our players, their failings and areas where they could improve than nearly any paid commentator. Remember when Buckley moved Howe into defence and it was almost universally hailed by the media as some brilliant and new left field move? How could they not of known that he had played his best footy for us as a back? Honestly as paid professionals, how could they not know? Because like any casual observers they only knew him as a bloke who could take a speccy and thought he must play forward. They know the bare essentials. Most commentators would know about 'Big Maxy' Gawn, 'Captain courageous' Nathan Jones, 'Parents used to complain when he played against their kids' Jack Viney and the 'Rising Star winner Jesse Hogan (who, by the way, is going into his fifth pre-season not his fourth). And that is about it. I bet very few scribes would know Billy Stretch's jumber number or what sort of season he had without looking it up. I bet most here do including you Stuie

You'll get to know that is his way of doing things drunkn, just nod and smile and walk away.

The credit for the Bentleigh Club goes to Joe Gutnick. When the deal to finally deliver it to the MFC was done Schwab didn't even attend the Bentleigh Board meeting instead leaving it to CFO Matt Green to oversee. As the saying goes "a mans got to know his limitations" - a smart decision by Cam. As I understand it the Gardner Board organized that there were MFC people on the Bentleigh Board to ensure we got the Club when the final chapter played out. Credit to Joseph first and foremost and then to successive administrations but Joe is single handedly responsible for our net asset position now and it's a wonderful legacy. Schwab just happened to be in the Chair at the time, a little like he was for our move to AAMI Stadium that was actually instigated by the Gardner Board and Steve Harris. The reality is that we had a line of poor to incompetent CEO's going back to the late 90's and our Boards were little better. Thankfully the AFL took the initiative and we are now in very good hands.

Lets just win one week at a time

Gave his life willingly, to save his loved one. Have visited his resting place on the Island. Legend. R.I.P Troy

Hey, nice name dropping!!!

So true - ' Fanfare for the Common Man' plus 'Pictures at an Exhibition' are seminal recordings for those of us born pre-1960. RIP

For me his high point was the first King Crimson album "In the Court of the Crimson King". It's hard to think of any prog rock song that comes close to "21st Century Schizoid Man"... even to this day that is a standout tune.

Can't remember clearly, but I seem to recall Madder Lake opening for Led Zeppelin at Kooyong in 1972. I was studying graphic design at Swinburne that year and it was a breeding ground for musicians...members of Madder Lake, Captain Matchbox and Skyhooks were all studying in the Film & Television faculty, Stephen Cummings was another studying there, and Sports guitarist Andrew Pendlebury's father was head of the Graphic Design faculty.

Thanks nurse's assistant john dee. I'm dumber for having read that. Let's address the facts instead of dancing around them like you do.

No disrespect mate, but on a scale of 1 - 10 your knowledge of AGW is in the negative. Learn the difference between weather and climate.

Climate change has nothing to do with the climate. It's a new form of centrist socialism. At the UN's Agenda 2030 there's a list of “Sustainable Development Goals” (SDGs). Goal number 10 calls on the UN, national governments, and every person on Earth to “reduce inequality within and among countries.” To do that, the agreement continues, will “only be possible if wealth is shared and income inequality is addressed.” Christiana Figueres, the Executive Secretary of UNFCCC, warns that the fight against climate change is a process and that the necessary transformation of the world economy will not be decided at one conference or in one agreement. “This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history“, Ms Figueres stated at a press conference in Brussels: “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the industrial revolution". And you think it's about the climate ? The planet heating would be more beneficial than cooling. CO2 levels are not dangerous. The planet is not warming "dangerously". This is about wealth distribution.

Not sure you'll get much of a response. The alarmists round here seem to be weather beaten.