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I got dragged off to the Grand Final parade by my Hawk supporting in laws today. I decided to wear my MFC cap and shirt in defiance and it paid off. Jesse Hogan was in the back of one of the first few cars as the Rising Star and stopped briefly next to me frantically waving and although he was talking to a child next to him in the car, he did a double take when he noticed the colours and gave me a wink and a thumbs up! The next car was a let down with only Clarko and Hodge on board and I lost interest from there.

No

thanks for the PM, AF Pretty incredible that Jesse has decided to quit footy and move to Tibet to live in a monastery but good luck to him for the future

He played well today but it's not hard to play full back when the opposition is so pressured, frightened, weakened and plays with as little skill as West Coast did today. It was a 22-man effort that led to Kennedy being as useless as he was today, though Frawley played well when he needed to. Clearly he did the right thing and he's been vindicated for it, and it ended up working out for us too, but it doesn't make it any easier to watch one of the few players we got right at the draft table, did well enough in developing to make AA, and around whom we thought we saw a future, walk out when the opportunity arose to piggy back off a dominant powerhouse to a flag.

God there are some rude plicks on this forum. Opinions are allowed whether right, wrong or indifferent. I thought that's what this forum was about. Hate to c how we would treat each other if we followed different teams!

Demons by18 points. Jesse Hogan first goal. Jack Viney - Norm Smith. Close game but the toughness and absolute viciousness of the Demons led by Viney was the telling factor.

There's no doubt that Hawthorn have earned their success. Six of their seven core 4-time premiership players were drafted by Hawthorn, not brought in by trade/FA (Burgoyne the only one who wasn't drafted). Despite all that, there is a problem with the AFL when 16 of the last 22 grand final positions have been shared by just four clubs (Hawthorn x 5, Geelong x 4, Sydney x 4, West Coast x 3), and of the remaining 6, two clubs have had four of those spots (Collingwood and St Kilda with 2 each). That's six clubs sharing 20 of the last 22 grand final spots. In other words, 33% of the competition has had 91% of grand final positions over the last 11 years. Hawthorn have traded brilliantly, but their targets are players from struggling clubs who want success: each of Gunston, Gibson, Lake, McEvoy and Frawley came to Hawthorn from a bottom 4 club. It's great for those players but not good for the competition, meaning it's not good for the majority of AFL players.

People still don't get it, the problem isn't free agency. Frawley didn't win Hawthorn a premiership this year, the problem is players picking and choosing where they are traded to which has nothing to do with free agency. Here's the thing, players have been picking and choosing where they are traded to for many years before free agency was introduced and this is what needs to change.

Free agency has totally stuffed equalisation and the AFL have to consider restricting Free Agents moving to top 4 clubs. The Hawks have recruited Gibson, Lake and Frawley and others will be looking to move there, knowing that success is theirs for the taking.

Just shows how hard and ruthless the MFC have to recruit. If players cannot cut it they must be delisted. Watching Chip win a flag was tough. He played in 3rd gear last year to preserve himself. We must never allow that attitude again. Never.

You can't deny he made the right decision for his own future and has become a better footballer in the Hawks system. However, his attitude during his time with us was terrible. He should have been a leader but wasn't and his cynical explanation about waiting to see what was happening at the Club before deciding whether to leave when he had obviously commited to the Hawks well in advance leaves a bad taste.

He's asking for more than we are prepared to pay - and from what we ( don't) read - more than other clubs are happy to offer to get him. Sounds like a mercenary who overrates himself. Doesn't sound like the sort of team-orientated person we want. Very disappointed that he hasn't signed on for the sort of money his performances warrant. Didn't want to lose him - but pleased we haven't lifted our offer. If he goes .. so be it!

I started this thread because Frawley looked like such a bust for the Hawks but I must admit the past three weeks he has played a role. He has not been great. He has been aided by a dominant midfield and by other defenders, but he has done a job. Today, I watched him pretty closely and I thought he was shown up by Lake who was much more effective, but the stats and the experts looking at Kennedy's output will say he did his job, so I guess what that means for us is the big clubs will continue to treat clubs like ours as feeder clubs to fill up their deficiencies. If that's what free agency means then I will surprise myself and give up on this game. I hope we can improve enough with the young talent we have to get out of this mire. As for Frawley, I don't believe for one second that what he's feeling tonight would be half as good as the emotions felt by hundreds of players who stuck through thick and thin and then enjoyed success. So James, enjoy your MacMedal, but that's all it is.

This will be forgotten through time but Jack Viney should have been ND3 - all teams knew we were taking him regardless of where; we gave him a 5 year 'contract' at 15, all teams knew he would become what he has become. GWS and GC were the teams that could have forced our hand and both were involved in the Mini Draft that delivered GWS ND2 and ND3, GC Martin, and us Hogan. GWS wanted our pick and GC wasn't spoiling the apple cart - Viney at ND26.

John Ralph on fox did say he spoke to Hogan yesterday and was very optimistic and positive for the future ahead for the club. Tipping he will sign a long term deal. Roosy then said they sat down with him and told him about the bond of playing with your mates rising up together. Was all positive.

What we pay him is largely irrelevant, it will be round the mark. It's what we can get for him that counts.

I've never been less interested in a Grand Final.

The crux of the matter dazzle is that you weren't the only one who was asleep. Most of the other clubs were asleep during that era and even those recruiters who understood what the Swans were doing at the time were sceptics so by the time the world woke up to what was happening, the horse had bolted and this sort of recruiting is now commonplace among clubs that have to rebuild their lists. In any event, you can't do it by relying on the draft alone which is the mistake Melbourne made during the Bailey rebuild - a mistake compounded in that time by our failure both to pick the right players and to develop them the right way. And after witnessing Melbourne's record over the years with landing "big fish", starting with Moore and Templeton in the 80s all the way to Clark in 2011, that doesn't necessarily do the trick either.

Great development story I reckon. Worked his way up from the VFL dev league, to becoming a VFL seniors regular, to (by reports) consistently playing at a level above VFL seniors leaving them no choice but to pick him. He was given time to quietly and steadily improve, without being put under any pressure or expectation, and he did so. A very satisfying outcome for me. I just love the story too. A kid growing up as an MFC supporter, gets drafted on to the rookie list, works his arse off to get in to the seniors team, and plays as if every touch might be the last. It's like he's living the dream of half of Demonland. The next step is to keep improving and turn in to a consistent AFL half forward/midfielder. There's plenty to work with and he has a likable persona, so I hope he can. (How good is the calling from Huddo?)

Let him walk. It could be argued that Howe's manager's played this well, rather than the MFC. He sets an exorbitant price for Howe and then agrees to cut it by a third and ends up still getting over what he's worth. I'm sure that's the plan anyway. Howe should be on $300-350k absolute max. He's too inconsistent, one dimensional and lacks the chase to be paid anymore than this. I want him gone mostly for cultural reasons at this stage. I've seen enough of his jogging to make a call on it. I think though that the MFC have no interest in signing him. They're looking for a trade.

Firstly well done to Hawks as they showed what a well run, coached, trade,development & cultured club can achieve.... But this is not what the afl wants, domination by one or 2 clubs..... In the last 15 yrs 12 premierships by 4 clubs .. Hawks 4, cats 3, lions 3, swans 2 not to mention Hawks 5 gf, cats 4 gf, lions 4 gf & swans 4 gf... Can't see equalisation here.......

Frawley described the win as an "odd feeling". Given he was injured and didn't play half the season, and not to mention walking straight into a dual-premiership team, I can see exactly why his first premiership feels a little odd. It's a little bit like copying answers off a cheat sheet during an exam -- you might get a perfect score, but you didn't really earn it.

That's a lot of hate mail.

This is a satirical thread, right?

Frawley had a great game. But I support the Dees. That he's moved on, and is presumably very happy is irrelevant to me. Good luck to him. My interest/affection resides with other players (all of whom so happen to be at the MFC).

Hawks should be held up as an example of whats achievable when an entire club is on the same page and professional and hungry from top to bottom, not be used as an example for how equalization has failed. They have built a dynasty with no academy picks, no extra salary cap room and I don't think they've even struck gold on any father-son picks. They lost Buddy Franklin and havent replaced him with another superstar, just role players I hate them as much as the next bloke but what they have been able to achieve is amazing.

The issue is, has been and always will be players nominating where they are traded to in addition to clubs requiring player permission in order to be traded. I could potentially live with players nominating a state to play in (now that there are at least two clubs in each state) but certainly not nominating a team to be traded to.

I don't care if he was a number 4 pick he is not up to it. If he was in contract still you would persevere but seriously re-contracting him if he wasn't a high pick there would be no discussion. Is not fast, is not hard, is not clean of decision making or disposal execution under any type of pressure. I was a fan when he was drafted but AFL is completely different to juniors and I have seen enough. Take what you can get and move on.

AFL Will be happy with this result, the equalization is working really well, finally the AFL Have got something right

H2O is a compound.

Another year, another dud gf. Hawks should be forced to only kick on their opposite foot, except for Mitchell, who has to play upside down (he'll still dominate).

Jack Martin and Jesse were the top 2 under 17's by a mile and available to GWS to be traded for compo picks. GC had the first pick and took Martin, leaving us Jesse. Then the recruiting took over and we swapped pick 20 for Dawes and the indigenous winger whose name I forget, who has retired. It could be easily argued both were a bust.

My son in law is a Pies fan and knows his players and he said today Ben would be a good get for us. He said that he hasn't shown his best yet, due to a couple of injuries, illness and lack of opportunity.

Sweet negotiating by his manager.

My inbox is nice and clean by the way.

Wait, if we think he's that average, why would we bother offering a contract at all?

chuck me a PM too AF, if you can be bothered. All in the spirit of silly season

His manager?

Putrid trading. Please whatever you do don't send your resume to our recruiting guys.

Hawks up by 40 at half time Nasher turning the TV off and putting some music on instead.

I'd be amazed if someone does, and not just because of tunnelballgate.

I hardly ever watch the Footy Show these days but that's because my days of appreciating brain dead smutty schoolboy humour have long passed me by. However, it's worth knowing that this is the wellspring of our football culture and once you're aware of this fact then you can understand better why and how some members of the crowd at AFL games behave the way they do.

Yeah, didn't explain my point very well did I? Let me try again. We used pick 33 on How. If we traded him for a draft pick, I don't think a rival club would give up anything more than around 25-30ish. I would be disappointed that after 5 years Howes currency hasn't increased. As it is a weak draft, I would hope that we trade Howe as the steak knives component in a larger trade for an A-grader.

I hear we should have an answer soon on Jesse's long term contract. Fingers crossed.

Why are you confident St Kilda will take Mathieson?

The predicted swirly conditions with 30 km northerlies should upset Hawthorn's precision kicking The predicted 30 degree heat should favour the Weagles who are used to heat The Dawks have played one extra game and travelled twice interstate There are fitness questions about Gunston and Hodge When you factor all those variables into it my prediction is: The Hawks by 6 goals!!!

Old Scoopy McScoop seems to be throwing a lot of turds at dartboards lately.

Beautiful little town. Preserved like a museum as many towns in the locale are. Well worth a trip if you are ever scouring the goldfields on a dirty weekend.

Lol watching the marngrook show and they introduce Viney and the camera turns to the audience and whos shows up? None other then Saty himself in a woolen melbourne jumper!

If the proposed deals come about in essence we gain Jake Melksham, Essendon's third round pick (currently 40) and Ben Kennedy for the loss of Jimmy Toumpas and our second pick (currently pick 24). There's no real feeling on what we might get for Howe. I know many are feeling underwhelmed at the prospect of picking up either of the two players mentioned, but this is Paul Roos recruiting 101. During his time at Sydney Roos continually traded out mid-range picks for the under-rated, unappreciated talent from other clubs. I doubt that he did this on his own (unless he has some supernatural prescient powers or crystal ball in his locker), its far more likely this was a result of the FD sitting down and addressing list needs with what they could get to develop the list (see below for a potted history). Goodwin apparently rates Melksham and Taylor apparently rates Kennedy so I dare say that Roos is happy to back his team in if that's their view. The net result is we downgrade a pick in a weakish draft by 16 spots (maybe we miss a player we were targetting for, or maybe we end up with the same player anyway) and a player that isn't currently and may never be in our best 22 for two players we think will be. This is more than we collectively paid for Mitchie (pick 54), Riley (delisted) and Newton (delisted). Given that it's the same people in the FD I think it's also reasonable to assume the expectations would be for a greater output from both compared to the previous trio given we're prepared to play slightly more. Sam Frost is another classic example where we gained a player and two picks (ANB-40 and O Mac-53) for a second round pick (23 Patrick Mckenna GWS who may yet go on to be a brownlow medallist along with Josh Kelly). Lumumba for Clark was more a like for like swap (player who needed to move) rather than a typical Roos trading pattern. So Roos' trading history in brief: Started coaching mid 2002 (replaced Eade) to the end of 2010. 2002 traded in Nick Davis for pick 21 (Bo Nixon) Nixon went on to play 4 games (3 for the Pies and 1 for Hawthorn) while Nick Davis was a premiership hero (without him they arguably wouldnt have made the GF) for the Swans, played 97 games. Win/Lose deal. 2003 traded out Scott Stevens to Adelaide (119 games) for picks 29 Tim Schmidt (17 games) and pick 45 Amon Buchanan (116 games) was a premiership player. Win/Win deal. 2004 traded in Darren Jolly for Pick 15 (Lynden Dunn - 161 games) we made out like bandits and Jolly (118 games) was instrumental in Roos game plan that won them a premiership the following year. Win/Win deal. 2005 traded in Ted Richards (220 games) for picks 19 + 50 (Courtney Dempsey - 119 games and Sam Lonergan 79 games). Essendon got two handy but inconsistent players and Sydney got the cornerstone of their defence for the next decade. Win/Lose deal. 2006 traded in Peter Everitt for Pick 33 (Jarryd Morton). Morton played 22 games for Hawthorn (including probably his best against Melbourne) and Everitt another 39 for the Swans including finals- filled a need for the Swans. Lose/Lose deal. 2007 traded in Henry Playfair for pick 44 (Scott Simpson) Playfair only managed 16 games for the Swans before injury ended his career, Simpson didnt play a game for the Cats.Lose/Lose deal. 2008 traded in Rhys Shaw for pick 46 (Luke Rounds) Shaw played 143 games for the Swans and Rounds played 6 for the Pies. Win/Lose deal. 2009 The biggest trading period at his time at the club. Traded in Mark Seaby 18 games and pick 55 (Trent Dennis-Lane 19 games) for picks 22 (Gorrick Weedon 1 game for the Eagles) and pick 118 (not used); Lose/Lose traded in Mumford for pick 28 (Mitch Duncan 111 games and counting), Win/Win also traded in JPK and McGlynn for Amon Buchanan pick 46 (Ben Stratton 92 games) and pick 70 (Rookie upgrade) Win/Lose. The motherlode of trading. Overall as a package if the Swans hadn't had to cash in Mumford for TPP room for Tippet/Buddy this would be arguably one of the best trade periods by any club in terms of adding ready to go players even with Seaby as a bust. 2010 was Roos last year at the Swans, Longmire had pretty much taken over and was calling the shots on their list. This was the first time in Roos time at the club that they were inactive at the trade table. Roos' Win/Lose deals established his reputation, but there were some win/win and lose/lose trades in that bunch, but the end result is that rarely, if ever, (although these are very much subjective assessments) were the Swans on the wrong side of the ledger. My rather long winded and elaborated point is Roos has runs on the board, I'll trust in his track record.