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I've been having a think about PJ's "get over it" idea when it comes to losses. Of course he is right. But only up to a point. The last umpteen years has demonstrated that 'faith' in people who claim to have a plan, who have good credentials and who have the respect of the footy industry (AFAIK) is the path to ruin and failure. The MFC has demonstrated nothing but the ability to perform so poorly as to be an object of contempt within the AFL and with its many supporters. We are below sympathy. We're seen as having earned our performance poverty through a genuine lack of ability compounded by weakness and handout dependency. So Peter, what I'd like to say is that I do believe. I believed long before you arrived and I'll believe long after your name is but the answer to a challenging question at a Pub Quiz. I've bought memberships, brainwashed my children, started sponsoring players and given more time and emotional energy than is sane to the club. And compared to many who visit this site, I've actually given very little. MFC is part of my very identity. Like many here, my emotional health rises and falls on a weekly (and at times hourly) basis around the triumphs and disasters of the MFC. So I'll make you a deal: start producing on-field performance, and I'll give up my well-earned cynicism about bold statements and confident men telling me that everything is well in hand. My belief, my faith, my belonging to the MFC - for better or worse - is branded into my damned soul. We all know that on-field is where it counts. Well Peter, I think that simplifies everything nicely. I'll give up my catastrophising - despite the reality of experience that has reinforced it. Your job is to put up or shut up. I'm sure we have a deal.

No thoughts, just hopes.

I work with Hal's mother and she is a force to be reckoned with. It didn't surprise me when I heard he was the mystery player. She hasn't told anyone, it was supposed to be kept confidential. But she is after justice and she will get it one way or another in my opinion. She was appalled by the way the club communicated with the parents and how her son was off loaded after his rookie contract was up. He had worked through numerous injuries only to be unloaded when it suited the club. She was less than impressed by James H. But that is to be expected I think as a mum. But she is no fool and has not been impressed by the way the Club has handled their players and the issue. In her view her son has been injected with an unknown cocktail of supplements or whatever they were and then unloaded by the club with no support system in place. You are on your own son. Any wonder Mum might be mad?

I have admired the way he has carried himself through this injury and for that reason alone I hope he get's it right and can return to doing the thing he loves. Few would deserve it more.

If ever there was bloke more deserved of a clear run, it's Jack Trengove.

Reading this thread, my one thought is that nobody has a clue.

Absolutely zero expectations. If he can come back and even play ever again it's a win.

Kudos to the club. They responded to my email and have arranged for me to have 300 scarves to distribute to students at my school. Thanks to Georgina for making this happen. Time to start converting the kids of East Bentleigh to the MFC.

If coaches are giving kids ice before games, then I officially give up on society. Surely, surely nobody is that stupid. Surely.

Remarkable how all these training threads descend into sniping sessions, but with different posters each time. Oh, except for that one guy...

Nah that's me. For the record, I don't mind the subject of a thread evolving - especially when pretty much all that has been said on the original topic has been said. It happens all the time - someone posts a long post on the topic, someone picks out a piece of it that is only loosely on the topic and argues against it, and it goes from there. It's how real life conversations flow, and I don't see why forum threads should be any different. If the subject is still 'live', someone always pulls it back on topic pretty quickly anyway when they've got something new to add. I think it's pretty reasonable to come in to a training thread two days after the fact and not expect there to be much more news on training. Beyond the reports, there's really only so much that can be discussed. Note I see topic evolution in a very different light to blatantly stealing the direction of the thread. If you do that, expect to have your posts deleted and possibly the thread closed.

This is the ultimate red herring and based on the fact that the AFL are the ultimate employer (or at least a co-signatory to each playing contract. Therefore they are responsible for what happened at Essendon. Ridiculous. They are clinging to the fact that the AFL clubs are ultinmately owned by the AFL. Sugggest they haven't read the Collective Bargaining Agreement that the players sign up to.... 29. SAFE WORKING ENVIRONMENT 29.1 Each AFL Club, as the employer of Players, has obligations under the Occupational Health and Safety legislation in the respective States to take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of Players at work. Each AFL Club shall set up appropriate workplace consultative procedures involving Players and other employees consistent with relevant Occupational Health and Safety legislation to progress health and safety issues. And “Player” means a player of Australian Football who is or becomes contracted with an AFL Club and is or becomes listed with the AFL as a Player with an AFL Club. “Standard Playing Contract” means the form of contract, as agreed between AFL and AFLPA, for the employment of a Player by an AFL Club to play Australian Football. And in any case if the players have taken something illegal they are in breach of their contract regardless of the circumstances. Muppets.

Hey Guys, I thought you might be interested in a Dees weekly podcast my friend and I have created. We are looking for passionate Dees supporters to be a part of it and build it from the ground up. We have lined up a few ex-players to guest host (one from the 2000 Grand final side). If you are interested you can like our FB page here and msg us with any ideas or suggestions. Our website is www.deespodcast.com We are both long term visitors of Demonland and love the content. Especially the training reports and articles. Would love any feedback! Cheers guys

No-one has a clue and I feel it's disrespectful to write Trenners off at this stage. He has every right to have hope for a good result and deserves our support in going for it.

What irritates me about this thread is the fact that joeboy opens it with a simple "Discuss" and then slips out the back door never to be heard from again while everyone else gets stuck into each other; the irritating part is that we all get sucked in by such threads every time. Here's my three word review of joeboy's effort: A cunning stunt!

Poorly I hear, plus I believe he is not happy about Leicester City and their fight against relegation from the EPL.

A lot has been written about Schwab. It is difficult to know the truth. Indeed the truth is subjective. I think Schwab was a creative thinker perhaps even a dreamer but in his later years was given too much power without the proper reporting lines and control by the board. It is easy to be swayed by the dreamer and their persuasive ability. I think he was probably a bit of a loner but had some powerful friends. What we do know was that he was a divisive figure that did not have the personality and interpersonal skills to bring people together. Perhaps it was about personal power and influence and he did appear to work in a Machiavellian manner. Not unusual trait in sporting club officials and other organisations. However, at the same time, he served the club for many years in a loyal capacity. He has not come out post his departure and denigrated the club. He has been dignified in his silence.

I've just asked him for an update on Twitter, see if he answers , if not if I see him on Friday will ask him then

If anyone can make a comeback from this Jack can. This kid is made from the right stuff. He is dedicated, determined and is of such character that he was made the youngest ever AFL Captain. Assuming his navicular fully heals then there is no reason why he can't fulfil the promise of his first two seasons. He should get back some zip and be able to kick goals from outside 50 once again. Over time we have forgotten how good he was in those first couple of years; 18 disp ave first year, 20 in his second with 4 tackles a game. He was thrown into it and performed. I still can see him playing a significant part for us in a big final. Perhaps he can go full circle and take the match-saving backline mark like he did as a 17 year old in the SANFL Prelim Final

No it's not... it's resting!

Indeed. We have entered the fantasy realm of Nathan Jones - holding the premiership cup while sporting a lustrous head of hair.

Spot on Hardtack this must be the most unneeded thread on here. The coach took over a VFL side and he is trying to dragged it into a 21st century AFL side. It is going to take 5 years to affect that change. So I will consider blaming the coach around August 2017 if the performances are still poor

But... but... Robbo said the story about the upset mother was a hoax!

Perhaps you should the article first yourself. It doesn't say anything about that being the best round 1 team, just the best 22

Franklin was 2nd year last year for contested marks with 51 only behind Hawkins who had 56...

No one in that place seems to have the remotest judgement. This problem was created by them not by anyone else. Instead of going on the attack when there is no defensible attack, how about learning how to be a small target and shut the f%&$ up. The thought of the absolute BS that will run non stop from these people if they get off is going to be completely unbearable. Please Mr Tribunal for the sanity of the entire AFL world except these muppets, find them guilty. Put all of us out of our misery rather than extending it.

This training thread is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet it's maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, It rests in peace! If you hadn't kept posting, it'd be pushing up the daisies! It's metabolic processes are now 'istory! It's off the twig! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off it's mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-TRAINING THREAD!!

Would be a great story to see him back on the park and playing for the MFC Its a real bad injury thats already had to be re-operated on so he will be coming from a longgggg way back He deserves a lot of good fortune and to play the game he loves

Won't be an issue if the correct penalty is applied

the fixture is already hopelessly compromised in so many ways, we can live with another inequality

Ingenious way of getting around the Pederson censor.

I forget he is still on the list, so if he comes through it and plays then I consider it a bonus, some luck our way wouldn't hurt

Unfortunately I think you are misdirecting your message. I think they should release a khaleesi virus on bad pet owners. We have a cat at home who is firstly neutered and secondly kept close to home and definitely in at night. I agree that the feral cat population is a problem.

If you had have been reading the last six weeks of training reports you would bloody-well have known. Apparently.

I would say more troll than killjoy

It was nominated rookies today. Rookie listed players can be upgraded at any time for long term injuries. I'm pretty sure Aaron will be upgraded next and play on Saturday.

Quote : "Jackson said the culture of the club was also making “some real ground”. “I think it’s fair to say that it took most of 2014 for players and staff alike to realise that it will be them that have the greatest impact on the success of this club. Those of you here last year heard Paul Roos say this directly to the players,” he said. “My own view though was that most people in the club, players included, thought Paul was a messiah or saviour and like Moses would somehow perform a miracle like parting the waters. “This is no longer the case – I think we have achieved more on this front since the new football year started in November. Both players and staff alike do fully understand they are the people who will drive success. I see this in the actions and attitudes on a daily basis of everyone around the club.” Did PJ have a straight face when he was saying this? I am starting to think the whole organisation was delusional everyone waiting for someone else to conjure up some miracle solution. Gee it is up to the players, who would have thought!!

I believe he went in for some scans yesterday so hopefully we hear soon how that went down. My question does anyone still have hope Jack can come through this and sti become an important player for us? Is there a chance this year we could see him play any sort of football with Casey or Melbourne. I think we sometimes forget that in 2010 and 2011 he was talked up as a genuine up and coming young star of the competition. Obviously the captain pressure and then injuries starting to set in and erupted his development. But lets remember you don't lose talent over night. Personally i think he will come through this and become a fine player for us because a fully fit Jack Trengove would give our playing list and on field performance a significant boost. Thoughts?

Nicely put Tim. You should email that through to the club.

Goodwin was there on Saturday and was seen having the odd chat to players, including Brayshaw, from beyond the fence near the "dugout" when they came off on rotation.

Followed closely by hiring a throwback to the seventies in Sheedy. And they talk about being credible.

I lost my little mate recently, a 19+ Yr old tabby. I too participate in site regeneration with indigenous & native plants, and have participated in other animal protection areas. I like to recreate habitat for wildlife, & my little mate used to accompany me to my sites on many occasions, whilst I worked doing pruning, plantings etc. He would jump up on the back of my drivers seat, then sit on my shoulder, putting his head out the window as I drove, checking things out as we passed. He would withdraw his nose & face once over 60 Klms per Hr, as the air got up his nostrils. he would come to the parks with me, tree planting days, where i would leave the car door ajar for him if he needed to get back in.... to the park at night for a walk ,after it was clear of the dogs. Travel to country Victoria visiting friends & rellies, occasionally had to stop in a side road, to let him out to go to the toilet. he would always ask permission to do such things as enter & new dwelling waiting for 'permission'. would ask to be let in thru the front fly wire door, & when let in would give a different call passing thru the door as a 'thankyou' appreciation. Would come up & lick my forehead if I was lying down sick, & lay down next to me & rest his paw on my head. He would always sit next to me when I ate my dinner in the lounge, & was always eager for a taste test, but would not hop onto the table as he new it was not on. he would leave my dinner alone, even if I went to the kitchen. he would wait for a hand out, or an invitation. when he was young, at my family home, before selling it, he would sometimes catch 'ringtail possums'; which I saw him eating after I came home from socialising. I used to smack him hard, hit him. He caught a few. I eventually realised he was only doing what nature itself taught him to do, to survive. And he just did not understand why I was hitting him, he showed signs of distrust so I stopped. the 'ringtail possums' were aplenty, love the little things, & they did not drop off in numbers when my littler mate was rampant. but a couple of years later the ringtails disappeared, after the brush tails appeared in the area. as he got passed his adolescence, he stopped catching the possums. he was the Most personable little soul, creature, I have ever known. & I miss him greatly.

I think you've just confirmed what many have thought. Disposal efficiency is one of the most meaningless stats in the modern game. The percentages get skewed in favour of players who win uncontested possessions and dispose of the ball with low risk (20 metre sideways kick), and works against players who win contested possession. Disposal efficiency percentages has little to do with the impact that a player has on the game. At training, I've only seen one player kick the ball with their non preferred foot (Garlett), and in the preseason games it would be a rarity.

My take on the skill set Disposal efficiency should be around 70-75% Should be able to kick efficiently off both feet, that takes out Kent and Viney, are they still AFL players? And I enjoyed every second of it Song

That they have no idea.

I consider myself very fortunate to have had him as a teacher over several years. He was a great teacher, and a wonderful bloke. After my father, the second major influence in why I follow the Dees. http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/2964989/city-loses-a-footy-champ/?cs=61

You're an idiot.