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I'm the same with alcohol, I don't drink it. The only exception is red wine and beer.

Shuffled out the door by a club lacking forward power? Cloke was winning Colemans in those years and he was arguably the best forward in the competition. Dawes' place in the side was always safe under Malthouse. It was Buckley and a bad year that saw him move clubs for reasons still fairly up in the air and ultimately, the Lynch replacement was a bust. Who knows how Bucks looks back at that decision now.Regardless, that is all secondary in my opinion. We were not nearly as solid as a club back then when Dawes was identified as someone we could realistically bring to our club. We were a club completely bereft of professional AFL quality leaders and standard setters. We had a list of senior players who were not up to the level in so many facets of the game as well as a brigade of young talent that had been subject to the worst development and leadership within the AFL. Dawes was never recruited for his goal kicking ability not his ability to take contested marks. How people continually overlook the context as to why he was brought to our club and why he continues to be a very important player for the MFC at this point in time is amazing. All coaches at the club would be acutely aware of this and the importance of having him in our side regardless of how many 'double-grabs' he has etc. He will be straight back into our side in Round 2. Of course we'd all like to see him improve in the areas he struggles in such as one-on-one marking. But he will not be playing ressies if he doesn't. Attitude, pressure, effort, leadership, direction, contesting and support alone will gift him games as a KPF for the MFC at this point in time and until our club has a strong enough fabric and core group of leaders to make an upgrade.

I think it's also a phenomenon that's becoming much more common and virulent in the internet age. It used to be that one would have to get one's news from the mass media, and if one wanted to discuss an issue then it would have to be with one's social peers. In this way, it would be nearly impossible to avoid being confronted with arguments or facts that run contrary to one's own world view, and one would be pressed to adjust accordingly. These days, we can log onto the internet, and never have to hear a single opinion that one doesn't like. In politics, for example, it would be possible for me to log onto a partisan media outlet and then onto a forum populated entirely by people who entirely agree with me. I can go the whole day and have every single one of my opinions reinforced and not a single one of them challenged. It's almost inevitable that my ideas will become radicalized and increasingly distanced from reality. This is basically what's happened to essendon supporters now. They only trust some specific members of the media (I.e. Those who are pro essendon sycophants), they refuse to discuss the issue with their peers and they retreat at the first opportunity to their safe-place forums. Ideas that are expressed there snowball, and speculative ideas soon grow - through mass repetition and lack of questioning - into simply unimpeachable truths. Like their political equivalents, football fans on a football forum begin to develop a siege mentality, and become increasingly dependent on paranoid conspiracy theories to keep the increasingly unstable construct standing. For essendon supporters, this has become the simply unquestionable mantra that their is a joint afl, Asada and mass media conspiracy to persecute essendon even though they've done nothing wrong. Why any of these parties would be motivated to do such a thing is, of course, not a question that anyone there is permitted to ask. When it becomes inconvenient or even not permitted to question the basis of one's world view, inevitably incoherence will begin to set in because one is unreflectively just accepting convenient talking points without making any attempt to calibrate them against empirical reality. In such a way, inconsistencies - obvious to anyone but the group themselves - begin to set in. The club don't know what the players took but it was nothing illegal. Hird cards deeply about the welfare of the players but has no idea what the players were being injected with. Asada and the AFL are simultaneously evil, calculating masterminds and bumbling idiots. And so on -reality very quickly runs away from you if you aren't forced to take stock of it every now and then. That, incidentally, is why it's good to have people who reliably go against the group opinion on boards such as this one, rather than hounding them out of town at the first opportunity.

Can yo pick me up at the G on the way?

Essendon - No need for explanation Carlton - Need a rebuild, Madhouse is not the man to do it. Also lost that superstar Garlett. Saints - Can't see them improving Bulldogs - Losing Cooney, Cross and Griffen and a coach in the last few years is reminiscent of Melbourne. Culture problems. Libba doing his knee wont help either. Collingwood - Lost 2 of the top 4 from last years b&f. Players don't like Buckley. Richmond - fell into the finals last year and haven't improved their list Geelong - Ageing list. Mitch Clarks calves wont stand up. Freo - Coach is massively overrated. Ageing stars. Will slide North- Waite could be a good inclusion but their draw is much more difficult this season than last. Could be a surprise slider.

From Titus O'Reilly Stephen Dank produces evidence that clears everyone In a stunning and surprising move, Stephen Dank has produced unequivocal evidence that clears Essendon and every single player involved in the supplements scandal. “I really should have done this years ago but I’ve been pretty busy not doing anything,” said the former sport scientist. “It’s not like delaying the release of these documents has hurt anybody and I’ve enjoyed the attention actually.” AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan said the release of the evidence was ‘super awkward’ for the AFL, ASADA and the media. “We should have just taken Stephen at face value from the moment he said he had proof. Shame on us for wanting to see some actual evidence.” “Sometimes having faith is better than having proof. This is the brightest day in Australian sport.” Essendon chairman Paul Little said the records proved this was all a ‘crazy misunderstanding.’ “You have to laugh. This all could have been sorted out two years ago if Stephen had come forward then.” “For reasons unknown, he didn’t but we can all have a good laugh about it now. What a madcap adventure!” A spokesperson for the 34 players involved said they were glad this was all finally cleared up. “The downside for a few of the players is they will now have to go to Morwell.” James Hird released a brief statement saying he would be suing Stephen Dank.

I agree. Don't think we'll miss James Frawley all that much. We will miss a fit and firing Mitch Clark though - every team would.

My 3 word team summary of expectation this year , with ladder position . Hawthorn - team to beat ( 1 ) Sydney - powerful and threatening ( 2 ) Geelong - recruits add potency ( 6 ) North - will not slide ( 4 ) Footscray - will not prosper ( 17 ) GWS - readying to pounce ( 9 ) Gold Coast - Ablett the key ( 8 ) West Coast - don't seem convincing ( 10 ) Carlton - poor recruiting repercussions ( 16 ) Melbourne - expectations bely reality (15 ) Collingwood - key position weaknesses (12 ) StKilda - 3 years away ( 18 ) Richmond - around the mark ( 7 ) Brisbane - remarkably a contender ( 11 ) Adelaide - hard to gauge (14 ) Pt Adelaide - continued upward trend ( 3 ) Fremantle - massive home advantage ( 5 ) Essendon - disruptions will hurt ( 13 )

wtf why is Pederson vs Dawes some binary operation you would drop some other underperformer or inevitable injury, keep Pedo in and name Dawes also pretty simple

Cowboy or not... Anyone trying to understand the workings and effects of 'anything' will NEED some form of record in order to have date from which to extrapolate. Its entirely implausible ( to me ) than none existed

Yes because what we have endured logically equates to improvement of the football team. By that logic we have the next five flags in the bag. If we have six to eight wins and no, or very few losses over five goals and a cohesive football team that actually looks like it knows what it is doing then I will be happy. If we do better than that.....priapism. If we have a number of young players consistently in our best players then I will be happy. If there are 2 or 3 of those that exhibit some "star" quality I will be happier. If Roosy has to scratch his head most weeks and try to figure out who to leave out then I will be happy. We are building incrementally. I would like to see us reach the next increment (hopefully not excrement) competetently. I think one thing we all want is to go to the footy with excitement and not dread.

Shorthand? Edit: - I know I'm old. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Some people have no idea about the value of CD to our side. Goals and marks alone are not the reason Chris Dawes was selected in both Grand finals at Collingwood.

Top 8 Certainties Hawks - they are going to go close again but they have been blessed with a good run of non-season ending injuries to their absolute stars and game changers over 3 years Port - Ryder final piece in the jigsaw they are probably the most powerful side in the AFL when it comes to breaking quickly and with run to beat the zone, which is why they match up so well on the Hawks Swans - still a hard nosed gun side, time for some changes in the next year or two with a few KPD's but Buddy, midfield rotations, SCG and desire after 2014 has them right up there again Freo - they are a machine yes Pav, Sandi, Mcpharlin & Johnson are all getting on but this side just gets the job done, will be top 8 just not sure if they will make the Top 4 Top 8 contenders and this is done without looking at or taking into account the draw Cats - been expecting them to fall for a while Kardinia is still a massive bonus for wins in the bag and Hawkins/Clarke will cause headaches IMO can't win it but with a good run could cause some headaches in September or sides with Top 4 aspirations Adelaide - been poor for the last two years but still a lot of midfield depth, Brad Crouch is an absolute gun and IMO would be a target over Dangerfield given age and pricetag, a lot depends on big Tex firing and Talia/Jacobs staying fit if all goes well join Cats, Tigers, Freo and North in a shake up for top 4 Richmond - whilst they had a fairly easy run home lats season they still showed the importance of Rance, Deledio and Maric staying fit they are hard to pick as a slider or climber but have the potential to put a good run together and give the 4 a shake North - injuries to key players in the pre-season is a concern as is their defensive weaknesses, like the Tigers they are hard to judge but also potentially top 4 contender if all goes well Gold Coast - showed a lot of improvement last season and another preseason into an already talented midfield not to mention a few good additions to the squad going to be there when the whips are cracking like last season and less reliant on Ablett, but he is still going to have a big say in their fortunes for the year Pies - any side who possesses Pendlebury, Swan and Sidebottom running through the middle is going to have some wins and who knows what some of the high draft picks over the last few years produce, but the Pies have a lot of if's -Reid and Brown standing up as KPD'S for the year, White or another giving Cloke a chop out and Grundy rediscovering 2013 form. Greenwood is a good addition IMO not top 4 contenders and need a dream run to make the 8 but it's a possibility Lions - they have the midfield and the ruck stocks they are a very long shot need to find key big men at both ends to have any chance The rest Bombers - don't care what they are saying in the media there has got to be some disharmony with their list and we still have no idea what the outcome of ASADA will be Meth Coast - they have a dream draw but Mckenzie is a massive loss best defender of 2014 and robbed of a AA birth by Rance putting 10 decent games together, will win games at home and continue to be flat track bullies, but Glass and Mckenzie out of their defence is huge sliders for mine Carlton - don't see the massive slide because they are coming in better fitness wise then last season, their coach will make sure they tough out some wins, can't make the 8 though IMO Doggies - Macrae and Bontempelli are going to be very good players for a long time, Stringer is also going to be a good player, Roughead good potential but still a fair way off, Boyd a big unknown Libba, Griffen and Cooney gone from the midfield, Boyd a year older, long season ahead for mine Saints - could see improvement in their young players but still to reliant on their veterans like the Dogs see a long season ahead Giants - hard to pick for a few reasons, fit Mummy makes a huge difference not sure where he is at, Cameron can he get back to what he showed 2013, they have an abundance of absolute young guns through the middle but where are they at happy to stay and build a side or craving to head back to Victoria. Could stay where they are or could fall back. which leaves us I think we will see improvement, there were good signs last year but we can't sit on our laurels because very few teams fall backwards and you need to continually improve or it will be 2011 all over again. 8 wins is my minimal expectation with a good run with injury, then again if Hoges plays to his potential and some 2nd tier players how great improvement you could see us with a mathmatical chance of making the 8 for a period of time. We know from experience there will definitely be an unexpected bolter and slider, Doggies and Meth Coast injuries to vital cogs has already shown how much of an impact luck can have. Then there is the unknown like last seasons off field issues between Sando and the Crows which could occur at another club. I have no idea but can't wait for Round 1 and teh season ahead

Thursday can go one of two ways - a victory that will give the optimists a hard on and the pessimists a meagre smile, or a loss that will give the pessimists what they want and the optimists will just claim it's NAB Challenge and it will be all good once the real stuff starts.

After the loss? The wrist slashing will begin when Freo kicks the first goal.

Now that would bring some entertainment. Players trying to ping the goal umpires from point blank range for bonus points. I'd like to see that.

you can't argue with intensive porpoises.

or...he does have records but they dont exonerate anyone !! He thought Tymosin was ok...remember..just saying If his records actually highlight what was taken and they arent Kosher...well..... he continues his line of bullshlt. Hes playing the strawmans defence !!

duh! dancing with your sisters is intra-club matches admittedly in some locales like romsey the distinction between sister and cousin can be some what blurry

No..He looked like a player who hadn't had played a game for two years but one thing was apparent. He knows how to make space, how to lead up and when to drop back and how to be in the game - he got clear repeatedly - it was his hands that were rusty and let him down - dropped some gimmes and fumbled. To me, the only thing stopping him being a very good pick up for Geelong is his history of his body letting him down.

I'm even older and I haven't got a clue.

Dawes: I thought he played FF at the Pies & they &/or he said he was poor at CHF? Yes he's a good enforcer. ..has good work rate, tackling/defensive side, but others are getting good at that now. Posters say he gets to many contests. But everyone kicks to him all the time! I remember being at the Etihad Brisbane loss watching Watts being ignored when free and clear calling for the ball, yet every time they'd bomb it to a manned Dawes who'd usually loose it. Frustrating! HATE to say it, but delivery to Dawes has been just as good as it ever was to that [censored] Mitch Clark, but Clark marked and goaled. I still think we could have got him for $100k less per year. He's useful but overpaid for someone who can't mark or kick goals well. I suspect he's not judging the balls flight perfectly, hence iron hands. Perhaps his eyes don't change focal length quickly enough. Optometrists usually don't test for this, so don't pick this problem up when doing a normal eye exam. I had & have the same problem, now I can't change focus at all, so have 4 different glasses prescriptions for different distances. There are eye exercises that improve the eyes ability to quickly change focal length. You focus on something that's being moved towards, then away from you. Cheers

Dank has absolutely DESTROYED essendon in that interview. No longer can the players claim innocence or that they were duped. No longer can essendon pretend they didnt have records. and "some approval somewhere in the world" wow.

Interesting that most are predicting and many have said they'll accept 8 wins or less. That's not even up to Bailey's last two years. Personally I'm expecting more. Better list, better football department, better administration, easy draw. And lets not get into the "Bailey's game plan wouldn't have won a GF". Footy is about winning and Bailey did with much fewer resources than Roos has now. Time to produce.

Please.

Of course there were records......what next....they dont keep score at their games ??

ManDee I'm disappointed in you. You are lowering the standard of this topic. Please stop posting FACTS. They really get in the way of a good debate. I like your work. Interesting though. I spoke to someone (unreliable source) who has a connection to someone on the inside and he claimed that there were records in evidence. I guess we'll know the answer in the published reasons in approximately two weeks.

Of course he would have them. You don't spend $500-$700k on a drug regime and not scrutinise every single change in behaviour, performance and physiology. Defies logic, accountability and believability. And I can't wait for the fraud trial where Dank is defending his didgy blood tests that he allegedly tried to claim on medicare

If West Coast are sniffing around Dean Kent , let's hope he farts in their general direction.

Ah, still a rip off fellas.... I don't eat this garbage anyway, but at my work we make 40% margin on hot 4n20's at $2.50 & I bet these guys get a better price than us. Hot chip buckets for only $4...... Oh thnk u soo much for ripping us stupid still. Chips cost FA!! Including oil, salt & the buckets it's still a 400+% markup. How long were they charging $1 for beer trays?!? They cost em about 1/2 a cent per unit. So when is red rooster announcing prices inside the g will match their prices outside the g? Too little too late imo, I'll keep taking my own thnx, especially since I'm in the habit already. Getting very sick of getting ripped left right & centre in this country, especially by the government.

A person's sexuality should not be an issue.

Duffer, change the clock in the dairy, cows are dumb enough to believe the wrong time. Same goes for curtains, set the clocks back, they have no idea. I did it in the chook pen, those roosters are too smart I reckon they can see the town hall clock.

WYL, the way of the world is that improvement happens in increments. If you're training a kid to ride a bike, you don't label him a failure if he falls off on his first, second, third go. You give him time to master it. Demanding instant success and talking tough is all well and good but it is distanced from reality. Clubs undertake rebuilds and ours was unlike most others in its scale. We are entering year two of the new MFC. Of course the club will be aiming for finals. But for a team coming off 4 wins, if we make finals this season it won't be a Pass. It will be a High Distinction. With honours. And naked models.

I put this through Google Translate using "gibberish" as the source language and came up with the following: Dank seems like a full blown nutter, nearly reaching Picket Fence levels if someone says Jimmy (Toumpas) in the same sentence as Ollie Wines.

How is it that people think Gawn is a better pick than Dawes? When given opportunities he cannot stay in the team.

What is it with West Coast and cash ?

11 wins in a season after what we have all endured over the last decade sounds pretty fair to me...

You know how you make allowances for bands as they get older ( aka - Mick Jaggers voice is not what it used to be). No allowances needed for Chain - they were phenomenal. Matt Taylor's voice was the same as the back in the 70's. You are also right about Phil Manning - he was on fire. I did go up o the stage during the break in sets and noticed that he had nothing on the floor in terms of pedals and switches . Compare that to Mike Einziger of Incubus that had two acres of stuff on the floor around him. This Saturday night I am seeing my favourite of all live bands - The Cat Empire. It is impossible not to come out of a Cat Empire gig smiling from ear to ear,

As much as I love the fact he is skewering EFC it is another self serving piece of crud by Dank. He left the records on the intranet? Didn't he keep a copy? Didn't he work with the doctor? Why doesn't he have records? Oh, no medical oversight? More questions than answers....

If they were posted on the intranet then ASADA should be able to find them even in the club deleted them.

Who cares about this guy, Mitch Clark kicked 2 goals for the cats today. I'm pretty PO about that.

On or off his rocker, he is right to question where the records are... If he posted them on the intranet which you would think is the case then what has happened to them. If he didn't then what the hell were the EFC doing and why do they think they know what the players have taken.

...and shuffled out the door by a club really lacking forward power. Dawes needs a big season, he is not being paid as a defensive forward which by the way he is not great at anyway. He gets far too much credit for one big tackle in 2014.

Dank is off his trolley. No wonder he and Hird hooked up. They are both insane.

Personally I'm happy for Mitch, Good on him.

Clark kicks two in a row. "Great story" Someone pass the bucket.

Let me get this straight: In R20 last year we lost to the Hawks by 50 pts at the G In R7 2015 we have the same assignment If we lose by a point, you will not consider that an improvement? Fascinated to hear your response

Like other interstate players on our list, he will leave when his contract is up if we don't start playing good football and winning. It would be devastating to lose him and Hogan in a few years time if we are still cellar dwellers, but it's a real possibility. WE NEED TO START WINNING GAMES.

I have changed the title. When I saw "West Coast Sniffing" I was thinking of an entirely different subject.