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Be very careful when correcting grammar. Is that too much to ask?

He should be thrown in jail and the key thrown purely for being at Zagami's

Just watched this game for the first time, obviously knowing the result and therefore without jumping to rash emotional judgement. Firstly, we really are leagues better than last year, and the best thing about it is the competitiveness at the contest and for supporting teammates. There's a palpable sense of solidarity amongst the players, they're becoming a unit. Secondly, there were no passengers. Yes, that includes Shannon Byrnes. It makes me laugh when looking at the posts put up immediately post match calling for heads to roll. Nobody deserves to be dropped based on that game. Would we get more from Kent or Riley, would big Maxy give us more forward/ ruck flexibility? Don't know, but they're tactical changes, not for form. Thirdly, our recruiting from the off season just looks better and better. Tyson is going to be a star, and is clearly loving his new club. Cross, Vince, Salem.....all good. Jay Kennedy Harris is a revelation. I still can't quite believe I'm looking at an 8 game 19 year old. He works his arse off, runs to all the right places, has one touch skills, elite agility, and his defensive pressure is exceptional. The footy world hasn't quite woken up to this kid yet, but it's coming this year, and he's going to be a marquee drawcard, just dragging people along to watch him. We lost, and were unlucky, but there's a new spirit and a new quality at this club which is exciting for the first time in a long time, and its hard not to love it...

Just got back from a very light training session. I arrived at 10am as the players were starting short kick to kicks. Shortly after Roos and Misson arrived and the group started some stretching exercises. They then went for a jog around the oval..Then formed up in the centre which was followed by loud cheering and a round of applause. They then split up into 4 groups of about 6 or 7. These groups appeared to be assimilating a defensive pattern where someone took a mark and one player in the orange vest stood the mark and they hand balled to each other until someone from the next group was able to break clear for a pass in the open. Some times this happened straight after the mark and others took about 5 handballs first. This was really the only training that happened. Roos walked around various players and spoke to them 1 on 1, Bails, Grimes, Dawes, Terlich, Watts. Frawley was missing, so I asked Misson whether he was OK. His response was 50-50. Terlich never partook in training, he walked a couple of laps then sent back to the club. There was a group doing so runs along the Boundary. Dawes, Nicho, Grimes, Cross, Jamar, Bail. I asked Crossy whether it was just a "General Soreness" group. He responded it was and was surprised that a lot more wasn't in the group. Training ended at 11:15am so nothing else to report.

Guys i think like many issues on these matters the answer lies somewhere in between and also depends on the passage of play under scrutiny. If we scrutinised every player's passages of play (which the FD will be doing anyway post match for Monday review) you will find that there's improvement to be had in many passages, then there's some highs and some lows that need working on. In some cases a neutral outcome etc. For a high with both players involved (mostly Watts) please watch the piece of play from the ball up/stoppage with 7:05 left on clock in the first quarter. To summarise: Stoppage play. Watts spots Cooney on his own before ball up and decides to run with him. Wise move. Bail running alongside Cooney also sees this but allows Watts to go to Cooney. Bail Spots Dahlhaus on his right, also on his own, he points this out (not sure to who) and decides not to got to him (maybe under instruction if this is his direct opponent). So in this stoppage the 2 loose players are Bail and DaulHaus. Peddo and Jones compete for the ball up, the ball goes to ground as Viney works his way in front of Libba (who by the way holds/impedes him as he goes for the ball....no free kick) to get to the drop in front position (good work). However, after a brief tussle with Tyson, Boyd goes to ground and manages to get a toe into the ball while on the ground, kicking it just away from Viney allowing Libba to get first touch sliding in from behind. Libba then scoops the ball under him with one hand while being wing tackled by Viney. Trapped with the ball, Libba then throws the ball out towards Cooney (play on called by ump). Cooney grabs it off the ground quickly, feeling heat he shuffles (throws the ball) over to Daul (no free kick given). Daulhaus gathers the ball and attempts to run away from congestion but for Watts. He is right on to it and swoops on Daulhaus and puts on pretty much a perfect tackle bringing Daul to the ground. Daul still manages to get both hands free, but not being able to hand ball correctly from his awkward position (sitting on his butt), he flick passes (technically a throw) the ball out but unfortunately for him, straight into the arms of Tyson. The boys then work the ball away from the congestion nicely. Nev gets a woeful handball from Viney in all that and uses his body to protect the ball, gathers while being tackled but manages to handball off quickly but to the advantage of the oncoming Howe. With some nice "baulking/spinning" out of trouble work, Howe handballs to Tyson, then Watts who kicks a nice little short one to Matt Jones. He goes back to Watts who then spots up Chip on a lead. Frawley then looks to chip (yes that's an intended pun haha) a medium pass to the big Russian (or alternatively Byrnes who leads back and calls for it also). Byrnes, who just isn't aware of the oncoming carnage (or maybe he is and happy to put his life on the line lol), goes back to mark and gets crunched by the oncoming Russian and opponent. And this says so much about our play atm i think. Great work down back, and through the middle/at the stoppages. It's just that last kick i50 that is hurting us the most. Luckily JHK is smart, stays off the contest front and square, picks up, snap shot....however not enough on it and bouncing ball is rushed through. The big issue here is not what is happening so much with Watts not doing this well, or doing that well. It's what we do with the ball and how we set up our last kick from just outside 50. I think we had roughly 8 out of the last 11 i50 entries in that first quarter on Saturday. But we blew pretty much 5 to 6 out of those last 8 entries. Fix the i50 entry side and who leads when/where etc and this should result in us having more shots at goal. One aspect is to play to our strengths or make sure we don't use weaker ball users just outside 50 to try and deliver it with that last kick in a little better than we are at present. Eg., Say Bail or Pedo get it just outside 50..... make sure Watts/Howe/Nev or someone who is a better stab pass or just better using it by foot, are running past/or laterally for the give off so they can send it in with a better chance of hitting a target or putting it to the favoured side of a leading opponent or even the top of the square with accuracy if no other alternative. Byrnes, don't lead back into oncoming 6 foot plus giants (or at least glance up and realise what's coming and sit off the contest...ie., live to see another day and maybe even gather the crumbs and snap truly for goal). For a sample of Bail's short passing/option selection work, see 17:50 to go early in the first quarter. Same sort of clanger that occured when we were on top of Adelaide in the 3rd which lead to the ball being turned over and a goal to the Crows which IMO got them back into that match. This is effectively "a turnover" it just doesn't appear as bad as a turnover in the back half where the damage can often happen more quickly/directly, hence the impression in the observer's mind is magnified. In this example, Bail's short pass is way off the mark which results in a turnover deep in our forward line. The Doggies are clever enough to run it all the way around the southern side. They eventually bomb it long to a contest on their HF line, it spills out to a hard working Cooney who has worked his way (too easily) off Terlich (who had gone to him just before the kick) and he runs around the boundary with little pressure, kicking truly for the Doggies first goal. Potentially a 12 point turnaround or at least 7 (assuming a dodgy/rushed or set shot at goal up our end had Bail/Pedo been able to hit a target or at least not kick it/direct it, so poorly). A very similar result to Bail's short pass attempt to the Jones boy in the 3rd quarter against Adelaide. Not all bad on Bail's part though as he also did some good work around the stoppages (1 or 2 great tackles, working his way free to receive etc), but those bad turnovers (not to our advantage at all on the last kick coming i50) are really hurting our good work further up the ground atm. Edit: First attempt was a rough draft and a bit shoddy...a bit like many of our entries i50 atm

hahaha........as soon as you told the judge you were a land poster you'd be instantly excused

for those stressing just a few things to take in mind Hogan is not a Freo supporter Pavlich as far as I have been told was not his childhood hero Hogan's family were not happy with the club last season with all that was occurring while we were an off field mess Since the change of FD and other matters off the field he and his family have been very happy with the club and he was itching to play for us Freo need a replacement for Pavlich next season not 2016 Freo need a replacement for Mcpharlin next season Freo will need a replacement for Sandilands in 2017 None of them are currently on huge coin players like Fyfe, Hill, Walters and whoever they line up next season as replacements will take a fair amount of their cap. I wont be stressing over Hogan until I hear anything further from people in footy circles in Perth

I really like the idea of Toumpas in defence. We often lack class bringing the ball out of defence and Toumpas is an excellent ball user who has a great tank. He's also good at reading the ball defensively from what I've seen, and decent overhead. If he can develop into a level headed, rebounding, ball using defender in the long term then it certainly fills a big hole for us.

The people championing Bail's demotion are showing their football knowledge.

I don't care what the game plan is as long as it brings us a premiership.

Watch him get delisted and get drafted by Collingwood

I find the critisism of jetta insane, since coming back he has played on the most dangerous small forward every week for the entire game, we have lost 2 of those games and the other was a close win. he has not conceded a goal. not one. that's playing on Betts, Lewis jetta and Dahlhaus.

Jesus Christ! You'd think with how negative most of these are that we'd been belted by 100 points! We actually LOST the game ourselves, they didn't win it. I know a loss sucks, but we weren't that bad by a long shot.

Someone on thread mentioned JKH as being a loner and stand apart from the group (can't find the actual post). I live in oakleigh and was walking the dawgs tonight past the Oleigh chargers ground. They were training and I got talking to a trainer about the next gun from the chargers. What he told me I found very interesting. Even though they are two years apart JKH and Dom Tyson went to Trintity and both captained the chargers (did not know that). He said they knew each other both before and after Tyson went to GWS and were friends and JKH was over the moon to come to the demons because "his friend Dom was at the MFC. My first bit of inside gossip - make it of it what you may.

Im a demons supporter in a bombers family (not one member). Id be sorry for my dear old mum, but Im rewatching Fred Astaire movies. Oh Im putting on my Top Hat, Buttoning my White Tie, Putting on my Tails. Let the tap dancing begin.

The self reporting claim is the one that grates with me because it's an absolute nonsense. Essendon started this process of allegedly "co-operating" with the powers that be on the very eve of the "blackest" day announcement. By that time they had either been tipped off about what was coming or someone at the club had great intuitive powers. As to "co-operation", I don't think so and I say this for a number of reasons but foremost is the fact that there seems to be no credible explanation as to what happened to the records of what drugs were pumped into which players. The most important pieces of evidence upon which the Essendon doping programme was based have gone missing/mislaid/destroyed or whatever and the club has no explanation. Yet, they whine about the inordinate amount of time taken to wrap up the investigation? Sorry, I feel for some of their passionate fans - those who like many of us are heavily invested in their team but a great number have fallen for the tripe coming from their club and apologists in the media. I believe that there will be around 40 infraction notices affecting about a dozen of their players and a number of officials and former officials. Obviously, some players will be charged with multiple infractions. The AFL will have to be very smart about the way it handles this. The worst possible scenario is that Essendon might fold and the AFL issue another entity a licence to field a new team next year. That would be a disaster for the true die hard supporters and something nobody wants to see happen.

As CFB says - those issues were met with more than a few stern rebukes from you. It wasn't hindsight. And sure it was negative - it was the truth - and the truth wasn't a bed of roses. There is no need to be negative with MFC fans - there is a resilience to hope for fans of this club let me tell you that in the strongest of terms. The amount of nonsense we have put up with in the last few years would make Lindsay Lohan cringe. So I will add that I applaud your dedication to get to training and to get info on the club we love but I will reiterate that criticism and debate on here is not the dismissive spurn you seem to think it is. There is no need to jump down the throats of those with contrary, or 'negative,' views.

Really?? You can't for the life of you understand the speculation about him leaving? There's not one reason you could possibly think of why some people are worries we may lose yet another highly touted youngster, a key position forward in this case?

Love the sound of that drill. The guy on the mark is occupied with a footy. The kicker will wait (occupied with the footy) until the option comes. You go look at training, juniors to seniors, VAFA etc.... it absolutely doesn't make sense when you have players at the end of the line doing nothing. Or setting up these half field drills, and the poor forward/backs don't see it because the man with the whistle in his hand is pedantic about the stoppage and wants it repeated 4 times. We have this "game sense" bulldust at junior level; but you hardly see a tackle bag, or contact drills, or tackling technique, or ground ball work at all. We still train like its Tom Hafey footy. Kick long, mark. Allan Jeans famously catergorised footy at (a) in dispute; (b) they have it and © we have it. Training at most levels is all about 'c'. And even then it is 1970's 'c' work. Training is 30 years behind where it should be at juniors, in the VAFA...you name it.

I love Jack but he is not someone that teams would bother tagging just yet. He gets the footy from stoppages and off the floor in contests and does a few highlight reel escapes from those situations but if he wants to become the player I know he desperately wants to become - his game is going to have to evolve in a similar way to his Captain. Jones hurts teams with his link up play and had running to help under pressure defenders and fellow mids. The start of Viney's career has been promising but he would not be worried about by other teams just yet.

Comparing McKenzie to Magner, Couch and Valenti is like comparing the crack in your granny's dining room wall to the Grand Canyon. McKenzie has won Brownlow votes for BOG on two occasions, he's played fantastic lock down roles that have been crucial to us winning games and he is a leader within the club. Why do you think he won the Coaches award for 3 years in a row? I acknowledge that with the introduction of Vince, Tyson, Cross, Michie, Riley and Salem his place in the team is far from certain and I acknowledge that under Neeld where his focus was purely on defence his game has surely suffered. Roos has sent him to Casey to rediscover his attacking attributes and he is regularly getting high numbers to the stage that two weeks ago he was tagged. The comments on his disposal being poor are overstated and fit in the Tom McDonald "lets wait until he makes a mistake so we can sledge him" catagory. McKenzie may not now be a regular AFL footballer but don't depreciate his past performances because in the past when the rest of the team has thrown in the towel and gone home he's still there putting in. At least recognize his contribution rather than a totally insulting and inappropriate comparison.

Like the team Joeboy you will put in a shocker now and again, this is one of them

The charge is intentionally cause serious injury which can't be heard at the magistrates court... He is heading to the county court with the next hearing for the police to issue the brief of evidence to him

Oh dear.....

Maybe I'm naïve, but isn't this thread supposed to be a Round 8 post-match discussion? Take it easy some of you - take a step back, breath, and let it go.

No, i feel the same. I think we were all hoping this could be a break through game for us to win two in a row, although we performed well,getting so close and not winning did hurt,because we now expect more and are really craving success.

RIP Tommy Will always be known as the man who invented the 25 letter alphabet - "runnin, kickin, hand passin"

Footscray always answered when we scored....We couldn't pull away....Should have but didn't.

pay both...pay none - dont care - just consistency

Yep. He kept Dahlhaus as quiet as I can remember seeing him. A good game, played his role and beat his opponent.

Yeah right. Port are on top of the ladder. Wines has just signed a contract extension. Some of you ppl are unbelievable.

Just watched the replay again and I am filthy, We had this game. The dogs jumped on us at every opportunity and were not penalised. Twice our players were slung onto the ground or into the fence when they were already over the boundary line. Picken held onto Jones all night. The free against Daniel Cross that resulted in a goal was a disgrace. Cross got to the ball first and then Williams knees him in the head. Free to Williams Goal. FMD How Cooney was not penalised holding the ball when tackled by Watts is beyond me. The free against Dunn was unfathomable. What a maggot. I now hate the Dogs even more.

Posts like this for some reason remind me of my nights as a young Police officer with the local moron face pi55ing with blood coming up to the front counter and telling me that someone belted him for know reason. After speaking with witnesses or viewing footage the truth became a little clearer and the issue was the person attending the station couldn't understand why others didn't think he was funny and/or his behaviour which resulted in him being on the receiving end of a little touch up, may need some review the following morning before making a complaint

Hopefully the start of many more masterstroke decisions for drafts to come. (God knows we need em')

It's hard to stave off the Syndrome though - I keep thinking: "what's the catch? At what point will this blow up in my face?"

Pedantry on a Tuesday morning, how refreshing, the way Roos is now coaching, any player who can go out and fulfil his role exactly as explained is valuable at the moment, it is creating a stability in the team that enables the improvement

Seems like they are about to get clarity but are not going to like the clarity they get. They really want the clarity that clears them...not going to happen.

Don't apologise maybe the mods could change the title of the thread and we could have VFL, SANFL & WAFL all in one. Not much from the weekend attended Perth vs Subiaco which was the most uninspiring game I have seen all season, Subi had the game in control after 20 mins into the first quarter when they banged on 5 unanswered goals. Perth mounted token fightbacks but Subi would just do enough to extend the lead again. Very few hard contests and tackles were down. Cale Morton racked up a large amount of possessions without putting his body on the line, it was that sort of game. Of possible draftees George Hampson was smooth and used the ball beautifully, he is really slight and pushing 23/4 years and was a great prospect as a teenager knee injuries ruined his chances and he did the hard yards at WAAFL before ending up at Subi. I doubt Hampson will be picked up but could be worth a rookie pick. Josh Deluca was composed with ball in hand and provided a few nice inside 50 entries, although as my post stresses at no time was he really under intense pressure when disposing by foot, one thing I will give him though is he has a great workrate, looks around 5ft 10 or thereabouts and at that size really doesn't have any x-factors which will make recruiters stand up and take notice. For Perth, Callum Collard was the only draft contender and really had little impact but the game really didn't help him. The kid I am looking at for 2015 draft is Greg Clark, this kid has size and just knows how to find the ball. The former junior KPP player is being turned into a good size mid and if the improvement at this rate continues he will be very sought after at the draft. Connor Wilkinson doing a bit in Subi's colts midfield and Chris Bryan getting a fair bit of the ball and uses it really well but just not sure that these two will develop physically to take the step up to the next level

I agree bbThe rest is just self delusion. We have been crap for so long and want so to improve we see things as we should have won that. No we should not have the Dogs played better and won. Simple really they were better than us on Saturday night and got the four points.

What irks me is that universally demonlanders recognise that development almost stopped under the Neeld regime. We also recognise that Roos, Stone and co will develop players. We have seen improvement from a few on our list that were previously written off. Yet people keep harping on about how Mckenzie played under Neeld. BB is right in that McKenzie may have lots ahead of him now and won't make the cut. Happy to give him until the end of season so I don't look like a dill like most of the demonlanders who wanted Dunn gone.(there plenty of those !)

Mckenzie is a chance to come in stop Cotchin. Stop Cotchin. Stop Richmond.

Hogan would be a drawcard....funny really

Give it a rest DO

1. McKenzie in 2011 received two best on ground Brownlow credits, against Freo and Essendon. Can you show me Valenti and Magers BOG Brownlow achievements. 2. McKenzie kicked a running goal in Round 5 2010 in his eighth game. You said he never kicked one. You were wrong. I can't be bothered going further. 3. McKenzie finished 9th in the 2011 Best and Fairest playing just 15 games. On a pro rata basis if he'd played the full 22 games he'd have finished 3rd. 4. McKenzie won the coaches award on three occasions, can you show me Magner and Couch's similar achievements? 5. McKenzie has played a series of lock down roles including Ablett, Griffen and Dangerfield in three of the last four games last year. This forum was full of "I was wrong" posts. 6. In the fateful game against Geelong in 2011 McKenzie had 25 possessions, 8 tackles to be MFC leading possession winner. Nathan Jones was next with 19 possessions. In 2012 came along and Neeld's mantra of "defence" cruelled the team and McKenzie, like Trengove, embraced the change. My post asserted that McKenzie was in a different class to Magner and Couch. I conceded that he would struggle to regain and maintain a place in the seniors from here on. Please analytically present Magner and Couch's career highlights to show they are as good or can even be compared equally to McKenzie. I've taken the emotion out of this Steve so you can "debate" me and Saty on the facts. I'm waiting. I don't want opinions I want facts to back up your assertion. Go to it.

Would be a pretty dog act, IMO, for Hogan to jump ship at the end of 2015. I know footy's just a business these days and these players don't have the same emotional attachment to the club that we do, but come on... I'd hate him more than Scully if he walked.

Essentially it was a three week ban but with the early it was downgraded to two. Fair call I reckon.

I don't think he has registered entirely with me... What is he? 20? He just got 11 clearances, kicked two goals and had 27 disposals against a very good midfield. WTF?

Howe- 5 minute performance. That is a joke. The whole night he took solid marks and spoils. Not to mention is handball to Matt Jones in the last quarter almost set up a match winning goal.

N.Jones - good contested game Grimes - held griffen well ( but missed him down back ) Salem - showing classy signs Watts - some good moments Dawes - exceptionally hard worker Viney - tough as nails Frawley - pretty solid game Byrnes - the VFL calls Tyson - our best here Dunn - out of position Cross - another solid performance Garland - very welcome addition Pedersen - workrate has improved Vince - playing his role Kennedy - Harris - classy and exciting McDonald - very underrated player Howe - mark not punch Jamar - experienced quality ruckman Bail - another 9 tackles. M. Jones - Good but wasteful Terlich - excellent until injured Jetta - played his role Like This GOT THE PICTURE

Bail? i think he has earned his spot in the team - has potential as a half forward who can rotate through the middle. At least the kid tries to tackle (had 7 tackles - third most) - unlike a couple in the team. He provides important run and carry.