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Tasmanlvr from Bigfooty - with thanks: Great to be back after a week's hiatus. Melbourne training > tennis (for the time being, by the time you read this I'll be going to the Aussie Open) Walked past Jeremy Howe on the way, wisely gave way as he could have taken a specky over me had I not given way (and trust me he has done it over me before - at last year's B&F) These training jumpers are CLASS PERSONIFIED. Viv's hair is steadily growing to the point where he could have an afro come round one. Has Jack Viney dyed his hair blonde or is it just me? Kent, Gawn, Fitz, Dawes, Riley, Clark, Tappy in rehab by the looks of it. Miller with them. Forget Derrick Rose's return. Roosy is back. This is THE Return. Alrighty. Now we're underway with a lap of Gosch's + stretches. Jamar walking laps by the looks of it. Jesus Dawes looks incredibly motivated. You can see the motivation in his eyes so much I had to put on sunnies. Todd Viney is here with his OTHER son. YES. There is another one on the way in about seven years time. Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng. My questionable fashion sense is on show again - pink sunnies? Runthroughs now. Just some quick ones by the looks of it initially. More stretches? This is interested. I'm in good form, have not touched a footy and have most certainly not kicked it into a tree... yet. I'm slightly regretting not bringing a jumper for now but it'll get warmer... eventually. Alright it looks like they are doing handball/groundwork drills. The rehab group sounds as if they are drunk - random shouts of HEY! Short kicks now around the ground. Group comes in for a third time. Meanwhile at rehab Dawes continues to look incredibly motivated and is in effect, training the house down. Possibly the suburb. Looks to have gained a couple of yards of pace. He is building. Some upper body drills now. Bail, Grimes and Spencer not participating. New strength drill, basically it's a one-on-one and you have to almost take the tackle. This is very brief. Group splits into forwards, mids and defenders. The midfield are doing an extension of the drill I outlined briefly above but with an added teammate to shepherd. Forward line doing a lead + kick to target 15m out from goal. Defenders look like they are doing a stoppage drill where they are working the ball out under pressure. There are two groups - one defends and one tries to get the ball out. If we're as consistent as Melbourne's weather this season I'll be concerned. Midfield are doing a similar drill to the defenders. Salem looks at home in this drill but he's still a fair way off playing with his skinny frame. N Jones' pressure excellent in this drill - lays a tackle and then intercepts a handpass. Another drill - three handballs then a kick to leading forward. #1 forward Jake Spencer at one side. Kingy on the other side. Extension of same drill. Byrnes' pressure here is something we should have seen last year. JACK WATTS ON THE BURST. YES YES YES. WOW. Jack Viney on the sidelines along with Pickles. A few light jogs to say the least. Once again Dawes looking the best of the rehab group. I reckon he'll be back in full training before you know it. Looks good for round one at this rate. Pick up/ride bump/hands off drill again. Spencer clearly bumping the hardest which just doesn't surprise me whatsoever. Extension of drill which now involves a kick. Spencer kicks. *covers eyes* Jack Viney leaving the track early. All righty, what's... ah. It's switch/down the line/hands off/run/kick to forward/goal. In order I think, anyway. Trenners is in SUPERB form. Leading, talking, the lot. Words I'd never thought I'd utter. Howe drops a simple chest mark. Not wow. Bernie Vince is still tracking at around 70 odd %. Clearly not at full pace. Drilling passes though. SUNLIGHT!!! Just about time to whip the 30+ out. Good drill, skills looking alright. Few misses here and there but otherwise good. Two seperate groups doing stoppage work. JKH spinning, weaving, all very quick. So much so there's a cop standing around watching. Somehow I think this will end differently to the PSO ads if he keeps burning up the track and will lose demerit points. Clisby running laps. Group split in two again. One is doing similar to what was one before. The other... I'm not sure yet. Still not sure as it finishes. Okay I think they are doing stoppage work. I think. Maybe. Saw Spencer try to pick up a low ball. Had a LOL. Group comes back in again. Match simulation. OH MY LORD. N Jones and JKH dominating! Jones is getting the footy frequently, JKH getting into the right spots. Setting the example again - whistle stops play but he stretches to make a spoil. Terlich getting a lot of praise from Roosy for his pressure. Group comes in again. A looooooooooong chat (presumably Roosy talking about his holiday) and now some running. Tom McDonald typically dominating. Deadset Roosy offers a Chuck Norris-like aura around the club. Most players off now... except for the midfield group who have stayed on.

I went to the 2013 Darwin game. Went up for 4 days. Flew in the Thurs arvo and drove straight down to Kakadu, travelled around there Friday and half of Saturday and shot back up to Darwin just in time for the game Sat night and then half a day in Darwin b4 flying home early arvo. I would highly recommend it. You can get pretty cheap flights if you book ahead and it's a great excuse to see a part of Aus you wouldn't see otherwise. I love seeing AFL games in small venues like the stadium up there. Has a real community footy feel. However, it was far from full. I reckon about 2/3rds full. So what is happening with NT promotion of the game. Can't see why it is worth their while. I doubt MFC will ever develop a big following up there. Talking to people in the crowd there is a very rampant anti Vic feeling amongst people I spoke to there. They will support any team as long as it isn't from Vic. So a lot of Brisbane, Adelaide and Port followers. My negatives are relevant to this topic. I thought the Club's initiatives for members around this game were very, very disappointing. A very wasted opportunity. I contacted the Club at least 4-5 months b4 the game which is when you need to book to get cheap flights and accommodation. I wanted to find out who to book through as Webjet was a sponsor and I think Expedia were as well. They couldn't suggest anyone. All they could offer was that at some stage they were going to organise a two day fishing trip for over $3000. Great if you have the money. Otherwise there was a BBQ and drinks in a designated area at the game for $150. Again, great if you have the money. But as usual where are the initiatives for the majority of rank and file members who want to support the Club but can't afford those sort of charges. As is the case with so many Club functions. I would have loved to have flown up with a plane full of all the other MFC members going up together. I would have loved to have stayed in a hotel with all the other MFC members and followers and the team. Would it be so hard for us to be able to stay with the team and mingle with them over the weekend. A pain in the butt for them but hey, these are die hard supporters flying all the way up to Darwin. And it's a once off. What about some MFC functions that are reasonably priced. Why couldn't they have had a designated area for MFC members without you having to pay for it. You could have bought alcohol and the BBQ and usual venue rates. No great amounts of work there for the Club but it would have made the whole weekend an MFC experience instead of me just flying up with a mate and only turning up to the game to sit on our own.

He's not quick, but I think the thing that has hurt his game the most in the last couple years has been - in order of impact - injuries, instructed to be negatively focussed, and terrible form. Work out a way to set him free and hunt the footy and then we can measure how much his lack of quickness affects his game. Don't need quick midfielders, but you do need good midfielders.

I watched Trengove on the run yesterday and I think references to his slowness are exaggerated. He looks slower than he is. The key for Trengove is fitness to run freely. When he is fit he moves well. He looks fitter to me, and whilst not being a speedster, he is every bit as mobile as Daniel Cross (who ain't no speedster either!)

Biffen, BBO and others, If you continue to derail threads with your BS you will be banned and not welcome back. Last warning. You will have no further warnings.

Watts deserves everything POSITIVE he gets. He has copped it from day one and has not had a coach who knows what they are doing or how to develop him properly. Also he is LOYAL. He could have very easily jumped ship at the end of last season and decided to stay despite all that has happened. I look forward to him shoving it back two fold this season to all those who have taken cheap shots at him during his short career. Go Watts shove it up em.

MAN, we have all been analysing, critiquing, discussing, booing, cheering, applauding, hypothesising, supporting and disregarding this kid since the day his name was read out by the club as the number 1 draft pick. I think it's time we just let the kid play and move on.

God I hope you are right but we are coming from the pits remember so half a dozen wins will be an enormous improvement.

Machsy, if we get rid of those who go off topic who are the overly smug going to complain about? A case in point: I thought Watts and Pendlebury played different positions in basketball. I was wrong but, as quick as you like, you were there to label me a twit. I have no problem with that but If we follow the letter of the law re abusing others, I'd have to think you'd have a spell on the sidelines. To tell you the truth, relentlese teeth grinders such as yourself shite me to tears. It's a footy forum. Have a great day.

In other groundbreaking news; world poverty and hunger is still an issue, war still reaps death and destruction across many countries and yes humans continue to be the most vile creatures to inhabit the planet. Stay tuned for more groundbreaking news stories coming at you on Demonland soon.

Grimes trained the whole session and trained well. Sure with the ball, read the play well as a back and kicked well. On Trengove. He's been played out of position for the last two years as a high half forward. In this position he gets caught out with his lack of pace running up the ground to defend and doesn't have the pace when the ball comes over the back. His true position is as an inside mid and most of the comparisions like Hayes, Sewell, Selwood, Cross, Boyd and Black are to inside mids. He has the characteristics to play this position - courage, good hands, poise, stamina and an ability to find the ball. Whilst Demonlanders will hate this I think the best comparison is with Brock McLean who coincidently out sprinted Trenners to a ball last year. Trengove is better in the air and can possibly play more positions when resting, but his problem is his lack of speed and lateral movement. And I agree with others that this isn't bagging Trenners who is a ripping bloke and has been wonderfully loyal to MFC, it just recognizes his characteristics.

Why? Even if it was supposed to be in the genes, she is a marathon runner... hardly noted for their flat out speed.

It went about 12 months ago.

Except for N. Jones. His slate has little gold stars on it

Just got back. Had to leave after two hours because of Richmond parking restrictions. The boys were still going strong at 11:30am. Roos is back! Some observations... Viney was indeed training full throttle. His hit on Evans was the kind of thing you love to see in a game, but I reckon Evans feels it unnecessary in a training drill. Viney only knows one way. The product of this bump was that Evans went to the sidelines and resumed after 15 minutes. Viney eventually headed indoors with a rather forlorn look on his face (may have slight concussion - Evans seemed to have neck soreness). Standouts for me... Strauss - I still have question marks but his efforts at training today were first class. He was very quick and for sustained time, gave it everything. Spencer - I'm now glad he is the last big man standing. Could be a breakout year. (no sign of Jamar today) Michie - mature body, strong inside and ready to rock n roll. Frawley - bristling and fit Nat Jones - clean as a whistle in ball-handling Howe - great run, good foot skills Garland was with the rehab group today, along with Tappy, Clark, Dawes, Gawn, Hogan, Kent, Fitzpatrick and Aidan Riley (I think) Hogan seemed to be running okay... not 100% yet. I am pleased to report that Maia Westrupp is getting the hang of the game and trained well in the main group. Harmes and Hunt move well, very pacey and lots of upside. Good to see Clisby back with main group. Georgiou a capable ball-handler, runs hard, kicking not as bad as some have indicated. Tyson did enough to show he will help lift our midfield. Oh yeah, Bernie Vince is a gem!

Remember that Clint has a limited understanding of the game

I'm clinging onto something here.....please let me have it.

If only they were humorous. The problem is incessant rambling, cluttering a thread with what I don't think even passes as comedy, so poor are the attempts. It's just cringeworthy and makes everything more boring than it was otherwise.

Good post Bob. I completely disagree with the notion that because he is too slow for the midfield he should therefore play half forward. A small half forward will be completely exposed if they lack pace. Not only will they struggle to beat their opponent to the fall of the ball but they will be completely exposed the other way when the opposition launch their attack out of defence. I think his lack of pace can be disguised more as an inside midfielder and will not be exploited as much by the opposition. That being said, I hope something has been affecting his pace the last few years, as at times he made slow players look quick. If he needs to rest, I would play him deep forward, where his lack of pace would hopefully not be as exposed as it would playing high half forward. Also he has absolutely fantastic hands in the air, really clean and one grabs everything, and this attribute would be better utilised close to goal than further up on the flanks.

Interesting idea MD, good luck with it all. A couple of thoughts. Firstly you have deducted points from Dees for the reports of Jesse's injury. I had assumed negative press meant articles that are critical of a club or put them in a bad light. I don't see how reports of injury are negative, sure bad news but is that what you are trying to measure? You note in the 'How it works section that you won't be including match reports as you want the table to reflect the 'quality of the football club as a whole'. I can't see how including reports of injuries achieves this goal. Just as match reports from poorly performing clubs would skew the results so would a team that have a really bad run with injuries (and usually there s a correlation between the two). Using a metric of reports of injuries resulting in losing points would have consigned the Dees to the bottom of such a table for the last decade (even leaving aside the genuine negative press we have received) The other query was your selection of articles. Obviously there are frequent examples of the same articles appearing in those paper owned by the same company and there also examples where competing companies will report on the same issue (eg both the Hun and the Age reported on Hogans' injuries). How will you determine which article to 'score'?

40K is achievable but a lot of things need to go our way. One way to push this number is offer the 3 game package Melb V Sydney/Collingwood/Geelong, we are one of the only clubs that don't offer a 3 game package.

How about a premiership winning midfield that was full of speedsters like Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Burgoyne...and one of the best players in the comp Luke Hodge really flies as well doesn't he....what is this obsession with speed?

Do you really think it's most damaging? Last year it was his lack of fitness that really amplified this 'plodding' notion everyone is talking about. Think about him in 2010 though. There was no concern about his running ability, and he certainly wasn't speedy. He was just fit. Of course if he was speedy, we'd be talking about a potential superstar game changer. He has enough going for him to suggest he'll be a great player if he can keep fit. Cross O'keefe Hayes Boyd Black Just a few names who have been huge players for their club and none of them have a burst of speed.

Not really... You don't have to be fast to be able to run long distances.But I do agree with those who say he's always been on the slow side. Even during the champs he never seemed to have a burst of speed, however he was playing under 18's so his lack of speed wasn't as evident as it is in the faster paced AFL. Still, I think he can be a very effective player for us going forward. Lenny Hayes comes to mind as someone who you could perhaps compare with some of Trengoves attributes. Great kick, great tackler and stoppage player, can kick a goal, smart footballer but one-paced. If Trenners can work on his contested ball winning etc and a few other things, I have no concerns. I know that's stating the bleeding obvious, but the guy is a classy and natural footballer so as long as he can stay fit, he's the least of my concerns.

Im fan of watts, he is the most skilled player in our side and this year he will mature into a top liner. Just like other talls have done around the age of 23. Such as Riewoldt, Goddard, Hawkins etc. etc. His intensity and maturity will only get better year after year. Also remember his stats , marks , kicks goals etc are still better than those he is constantly compared to , like Hurley and Natanui. Lets give him another year hey? He is still very young.

Watts will have a solid year as he learns his new role. By the end if his contract I believe he could be top 10 in the competition. He has elite skills, pace and decision making for a tall and as he matures he will tough to match up.

redleg, if they "wiped" the data and you haven't used the disk since all the data should be recoverable when they "wipe" the disk they don't actually erase the data take your iq box to a pc data recovery centre where they can remove the disk attach it to a pc and recover the data using your great legal powers you can then send foxtel the bill it IS recoverable

Of the top 10 players selected in the 2008 draft, I'd still take Jack Watts. Hurley, Rich and Hartlett are very good players, but I reckon Watts still has more upside than each of them. NikNat? I reckon he's a bit overrated. And pick 40? Well, that's laughable. Only Mark Neeld and you think that.

How can anyone be an "unashamed fan" of Watts. Lovely guy, but as a footballer he's a dismal failure. We'll all be unabashed fans if he ever realises his talent, but he's a valuable pick 1 masquerading as pick 40. I agree that he never asked to be pick 1, but if you're an "unashamed fan" you care too little about success, or the Melbourne Football Club.

What did santa get you lot for Christmas, I got a Rolex from the lesbians next door who must have misunderstood me when I said Í wanna watch.

I've said since Watts was drafted: he'll play his best footy as a Pendlebury type role where he is getting the ball in the midfield, using his evasive skills and delivering it to the forwards, where he'll lead the AFL in goal assists. I'm backing him in. You can't tell me Pendlebury or Thomas were that hard. I'm saw them play up close in juniors and they were both soft. They just had the benefit of good coaching to toughen them up early in their careers. Unfortunately for us, Watts hasn't had much of that until now. It's not too late though.

Toump did the full session. HIs kicking is great. Hogan is in rehab but was running without difficulty and there was no bandage on his knee.

IIRC, Jack has only really played 1 game in the midfield which was Rd8 2012 v Swan (we lost by 101 points) and by playing in the midfield i mean that he lined up at the centre bounce. In reality "playing in the midfield" that night was essentially playing as 7th, 8th, 9th & 10th defenders as the I50 count was 71 to 35 (33 scoring shots to 12). Stats for the game: 34 Disposals (18 kicks; 16 HB) 11 Marks (2 contested) 1 tackle 1 free for 1 free against 12 contested possessions (equal 5th on ground) 76.5% disposal efficiency (26 effective disposal - equal BOG) 4 clangers 2 clearances 8 rebound 50s (only 6 dee's players didnt record a R50) 3 1%'ers 150 Supercoach points (2nd behind Kieran Jack) If you dont remember the game, dont go watch it... it was horrible; but Jack and Sam Blease (maybe Garland) were the only good things that arvo for us. Even Neeld recognised Jack's efforts in his special backhanded way when he said something along the lines of "Well when your best midfielder is playing his first game in the middle, you know you are in trouble" Someone might be able to help with that quote. But my main point is that he has never played in the midfield in the AFL so don't write him off. But if you have watched any of the games he played at Sandringham he was used as a midfielder, he only played CHF for Vic Metro and even then he ran through the midfield in parts of games. I believe that we all want Jack to succeed, but we all have different expectations on him which will lead to knockers no matter what but as supporters rather than sitting here doubting him before he has even kicked a ball this season, which is just plain disrespectful, why dont we look at what he is doing on the track (i havent been this pre-season). It does seem from the reports that he is more involved, pushing harder, he has moved up into the "top" group in the running and is generally working harder in training (which is a knock everyone seems to have on him). It is hard being positive after so many years of mediocrity, but finally it feels like we are moving in the right direction. If we are to climb to the top it is guys like Jack, Trenners, Tyson, Toumpas, Mitchie & Viney who are going to be the driving force and guys like Cross & Vince are there to add depth, experience and protection for the younger guys. Sorry for the rant.

He is another one I am prepared to give a clean slate to. McKenzie circa the last 3 years - you would be right in thinking that he doesnt have a long term future. However with good training and repetitive training that the likes of Roos and Stone will be imparting..... Be trained to go to the right spot and knowing that someone is going to be where he is trained to be and repeatedly being drilled in that....We know that McKenzie can get down and dirty and to where the ball is at. I am not saying that McKenzie will all of a sudden become a star or even that he will be a mainstay in our team. He is another of many I will give a clean slate too and say - no previous history - all past performances and weaknesses are forgiven. Prove yourself now. He like Watts, Bail, Tapscott, Dunn and lots of others have a fresh chance with what I believe are good educators to make good forward progress. Its up to them. Postscript - I watch the good midfields - especially Geelong and Hawthorn and am amazed at how they clear a ball from a stoppage. So many times players who second receive the ball dont get the ball because they are seen or heard. They get it because it is a drill and without looking or hearing, their teamate knows they will be there. Thats where we need to get to.

I left training at about 12 when the main group had finished. Unsighted today was Matt Jones although he may have joined the rehab group after they left the main oval and did running and other drills on the old training oval. But I didn't see him or Garland. The rest of the rehab group were as WW has said. The balls were out from the beginning and there was a lot of enthusiasm in the group. Players who stood out for me today were Strauss and Blease. I haven't read much about Strauss in the reports to date but he didn't put a foot wrong today. He ran hard, kicked very well and didn't fumble. Blease also trained well. In the first session back after Christmas when he ran 300's he fell off the pace in the second and third repeats. There were no 300's today but when the ball went away after about 2 hours they did some 40 and 80 metre reps and Blease had no trouble keeping up. His kicking during training was very good and he stayed behind after training had finished to do some specific goal kicking. Towards the end of training Clisby left the main group and did multiple laps as did Hogan and Gawn. None of the rehab group looked significantly troubled and Dawes wasn't wearing any bandage on his knee. Barry was training with the midfielders and looks good although it was disappointing to see both he and Kennedy Harris make some silly skill errors when under no pressure. I'd be surprised to see either play much footy early this year. Today was the first time I'd seen Salem train and he was quite impressive with sure hands and beautiful kicking. He, Toumpas, Watts, Strauss and Blease all kicked the ball well today in what was a solid and good training session. And what would a training report be without Watts. Trained with the mids and when they were practising centre square clearances he played as the wingman. He got his fair share of contested ball and as usual made good decisions. But all of this is just "dancing with your sister" and we won't really be able to judge until the first NAB cup match.

I guess, to be pedantic, it has gone so the observation is correct, though perhaps somewhat belated !

I find it a little funny that such a fuss was made over his mo, yet here we have posters who are apparently oblivious to the fact that it disappeared a year ago

How bout 20 and an exchange of later picks ?

Current market value - I reckon a low first round pick in the teens. I also reckon you'll be pleasantly surprised by Watts' performances this year.

Yes I am sure he will play well at Casey!

I guess we'll just need patience. Hopefully won't take another 6years to work out where (or if) Jack belongs on the footy ground For now I am happy that he is still in red and blue and showing some desire to offer up a new version of himself

I obviou'sly didn't 'see the original header with the aberrant apo'strophe's ! 'Sorry if I 'seemed ju'st a little too pedantic, but mi'splaced apo'strophe's really pi'' me off 'somewhat.

I think the closest we got was a few weeks later when we played Hawthorn in a must win game and were well in the game when our reigning b & f Aaron Davey suffered a broken fibula. I think we lost that game by about 20 points and after that just fell away in the remaining two games. Whatever it was that happened over the summer, we were never going to get there with this team. In 2011 we played the Swans in round 1 and drew the game (in hindsight a reasonable effort) and then we got smashed by Hawthorn in the second half. The signs weren't good but we managed to recover to a point where we were good against the lowly, the new franchise, some of the interstate clubs on our home turf but we weren't in the hunt against the stronger clubs. The kind of game that held us in good stead in that game against the Swans in 2010 failed us.

It's a possessive apostrophe is it not? Ladies'Night? Perhaps not needed but not incorrect if a little old fashioned. Or I might just be a pedantic tosspot. Tinker's cuss! Edit: apostrophe.

Watts being the 137th best player in the AFL reminded me of the song, The Ballad of Irving, by Frank Gallop... He was short and fat, and rode out of the West With a Mogen David on his silver vest. He was mean and nasty right clear through, Which was kinda weird, 'cause he was yellow too. They called him Irving. Big Irving. Big, short Irving. Big short, fat Irving. The hundred and forty-second fastest gun in the West. A hundred and forty-one could draw faster than he, But Irving was looking for one forty-three. etc. etc.

most coaches i played under ,trotted this line out.also i will play the blokes who train the hardest if you cant do every session,bad luck ,you wont be in senoirs the slate is clean"i will judge you on what ive seen" "no your not a back pocket player' 'i might surprise you and play you in the gutz" of course we will give the players our support starting a new year DeeZee its what we do at demonland

With Roos on board, Jack can now only blame the guy in the mirror for what happens next... Fingers crossed.

Watts embraces Roos' messageThanks for the reports guys. However, if Roos is back nobody told Matt Thompson and isn't the official site going into a bit of overkill on Jack Watts? Hardly a day goes by without a write up.

Thanks Swooper. Great news. And I'm a fan of Michael Evans so good to see he's in the thick of things. FWIW, Evans is my pick as the bloke who smashes our perception of him. I rate him highly in terms of footy nous.