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Don't know why, but I feel sorry for them. Haven't seen the wheels fall off a club this badly since... oh yeah, that's why. Empathy.

Mark Neeld is available

Saints supporter on BF: "Geez, how many dwarves are we gonna burn this off-season?"

I suspect Kim Duthie was behind this!

Obviously couldn't bare the prospect of the dees rd 1

As a Melbourne supporter all I can say is thank you to Essendrug, Saints and Lions for making us look not so bad.

You mean what the players did to put Shannon in the LG. I think a few on here have a reprehensible attitude to a bloke who simply signed a contract and wanted to be a Dee. At some point, we are going to stop regurgitating all our perceived failures and start moving in a forward direction.

Mind you, it is mind-boggling to hear the mixed messages under Neeld's regime. On entering the club I remember him stating precisely that it was something that would not happen under his reign, and feedback would be open, honest and clear. No player would be left wondering why they weren't playing, or what they needed to work on to play. Obviously he didn't walk the walk.

Crap article - even crappier headline (in the paper): "Demons in disarray." I would be obliged if anyone can point out to me how Magner having a sook about being left out of the side becomes a "picture of dysfunction and confusion".

If anyone thinks WADA is going to allow a precedent to be set whereby a club gets away with avoiding WADA sanctions because no proper records were kept of what was taken and who took what, they are very much mistaken. The investigations of the NRL and AFL clubs involved will be painstaking and drawn out but the players involved will not get out of this unscathed.

Well handled? Milne case: St Kilda coterie members and (allegedly) officials lean on St Kilda Police to cover up ('not proceed with investigation') serious allegations in a case deemed credible and reopened for investigation 7 years later. Schoolgirl: St Kilda officials and coterie members circulate demeaning videos and jokes about the girl, publicly '[censored]-shame' her, make absurd threats to claim damages, and in the process basically keep the issue in the media for much longer than would otherwise have happened, by which time an apparently somewhat unhinged teenage girl has become a publicity addict with an axe to grind. Meanwhile, players and, incredibly, player manager Ricky Nixon, have managed to get themselves further entangled in a pathetic and sordid drug and sex web. Meanwhile, they also blew the re-signing of Ross Lyon by making him wait and wait for even a solid contract extension offer, their relocation to Seaford has been a shambles (an expensive shambles) every step of the way. They also sacked Grant Thomas in a year (2006) he took the team to finals despite several top players being injured (and, indeed, if not for the rampaging might of Nathon Carroll, Brock Mclean and Cameron Bruce they would have continue past the first elimination final), a process done with considerable, enduring acrimony. The next year Butters was also overthrown and much of the board departed, again, in acrimony. Far from being well-managed, the St Kilda football club has lurched from one conflict and media storm to another for the last 8 years, held together only by what would appear to have been two top coaches (Thomas and Lyon) and the strength of the core group of elite players which are now retiring or leaving, with few apparent replacements. They have failed to build a solid financial base or to mobilise an active supporter group in the last ten years, despite being one of the most successful teams on the field with several of the highest profile names in the game - St Kilda's membership numbers have barely been ahead of Melbourne's for the last five years. I deeply worry about St Kilda's situation if they also now have to deal with a very long period of being uncompetitive. Their best ten players, with the exception of Jack Steven, are either on the edge of retirement or already out the door. Put another way - they turned out a pretty dismal year in 2013 despite more than half their Best-22 being at least 27 years old. Right now, they are in a worse on-field situation that the Demon's season of 2007. And there's nothing going on off-field to suggest it will be responded to effectively.

Until others surpass him, he will be in the midfield rotation of the MFC. We put lines through players out of some desire to reject reality - he was our second best midfielder last year. He has all the opportunities in the world to work on his kicking, his decision making, and his ability to spread and find the footy. And if he gets better in those areas then there will be a 'beyond' for him and it might be a while before we 'evolve' past him.

Sucked in by Ralph. He's good at doing that to nobody's, and James got sucked in. You were given an opportunity millions of kids dream of, and you weren't good enough. No wonder our culture was rubbish when players feel like the club owe them something.. The only thing I take from this article is clearly Neeld could be remembered as the worst AFL coach ever.

I am still stunned that the Dogs cut him free. Surely you'd keep him for depth/off field leadership etc. Absolutely pumped he was though and that he then chose us.

My prayers have already been answered BBO as you have returned to your original avatar

Okay, let's give Magner a fair go. He tried his guts out - we can agree on this. He is hurt and disappointed - not unreasonable. He is obviously not media savy because he has only been a fringe player without much media experience and therefore has come over badly - give hin a break on this. Probably not good enough but would have to be considered stiff not have had another game after his upgrade last year. Good luck for the future!

How's Billy Longer.. Goes one rabble club to another pile of trash LOL

yeah...been pretty quiet hey !!!

Envelope please, ( drumroll) and the winner of the most dysfunctional club in 2013 go to the Me...... StKilda Saints..... give it up for the Saisnt, and to collect the award is.... is.......is.....

Lets start winning some games before we knock them. Lets start with round 1, 2014. That will do

I don't understand the hate for JM in this thread. He was honest and gave us his best. I was sorry Neeld did not persist with him but what is most interesting about this article is that it is ENTIRELY CONSISTENT (sorry for shouting but wanted your attention) WITH EVERYTHING Peter Jackson has said since coming on board. Confused and confusing is how Neeld's tenure is portrayed. JM has given us a concrete example of that with mixed messages from the midfield staff and Neeld himself. That last remark bagging the club is one he probably regrets, but this confirms that those of us who could not understand why he was not used to put some muscle and intent into our midfield were justified in wondering.

Everybody imports everything from China 'very, very cheaply'.

Ergo is not a dirty word

I can see where he is coming from Neeld seriously has alot to answer. He will go down as one of the worst coaches in history. This bloke was suppose to come in and change the culture yet he has made it even worse. Shows how much of a dysfunctional club we were this year. Unlike Tagget Magner did deserve to play a couple more games this year. Though Magner doesnt need to come out and publicly [censored] on the club that gave him a chance.. showing his true colour and form. though I guess that's what happens when your close mates with Brock Mclean.. I actually hope he doesnt get picked up now.

Crap article. I have little respect for a plodder who kicks the club when he doesn't get his own way. Accept it, Magner: you're just not good enough.

I cant believe the hate he gets on here always does the job on the oppositions best midfielder, in fact he makes some of those stars look very average Paul Roos and all the other new coaches will love him cos he will run all day, he will go in hard he will tackle every chance he gets and he will play to instructions he has limitations sure. But i am calling it he plays all 22 games next season (injurty permitting)

the answer he didnt want

they really do get creative in ways to slam us don't they? if we hadn't just delisted him would they even have a clue who James Magner is? the bloke couldnt get a game in the worst midfield of all time and has just gone further backwards in the pecking order with five new midfielders coming to the club. Obviously he has hit his ceiling and is not getting any better. why in the name of God would we keep Magner on the list? As depth? We would need to have about 10 midfielders injured at once for him to make the side FFS the media has really lost the plot.. pack of bottom-feeding scumbags the lot of them

I think he has every right to question why he didn't get a game last year but to question why he was delisted is a bit rich consdiering new coach etc.

That's the whole point though - the FIXture should have no connection to the performance of a team especially in regards to who you play home and away. The fact people have been conditioned to think this is fine is a disgrace. Is this a sports competition or WWF?

Talks like the club owe him something. Newsflash, he was never drafted and we threw him a lifeline as a rookie for 2 years. His 2 years was up and he obviously didn't add enough as a mature aged player and Matt Jones took his gig.

Ordinary player in ordinary side confused as to why he is delisted.

are you saying they have already decided on pick 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19? what about the even places?

Bluey's got Tim's password.

Ha! - yeah, I'm whinging all right. And with good reason 'ad' If you remember, back when we were playing finals, we were bemoaning the fact that we weren't receiving enough Friday night games and we were always a team that travelled interstate a lot (as opposed to the Pies for instance) But back then we probably weren't as concerned at our revenue making opportunities (we should have been) So the truth is we've been receiving these types of fixtures for quite some time. It just stifles opportunity and we're continually under pressure. I get the "Let's just win games and it all comes good" people. I don't reckon it necessarily works that way.

Billings is much more than a running half forward. Stood up enormously last year (as a bottom aged TAC player) and has battled injuries for most of this year, so very hard to judge where he sits against the likes of Aish, Kelly, Freeman, Lennon etc. I have no doubt he will become a very classy A grader in a few years. Knowing Jack personally and having seen him play a fair bit of footy over the past decade, he's an incredibly 'smart' footballer who reads the play better and finds the right position more than most. He reminds me a lot of James Bartel - being equally skilled on both sides, courageous and a footballer willing to do what it takes to get the best out of himself. If he's around at pick 9, we'd be crazy to go past him! My 2 cents, I would not be surprised to see him go to GC at pick 5 (thats if the Saints don't pick him at 3) only to return to Melb in a couple of years to play with his best mate.

I think it's fairly clear that the Roos philosophy with his team is to develop a culture which engenders respect. Anyone who read the Oracle's piece on Cross and his off the field deeds and the respect within which he was held at the Bulldogs would know that this bloke is a handy person to have at a club, especially one like ours that has lost a lot of respect in the football world over the past six or seven seasons when we went from being the best performed Victorian team to the consistently worst performed. Naturally, we need blokes who can turn games around off their own boots but that will only come about when your entire team is respected. I think therefore that Cross will be as welcome and as important an addition to the club as Dom Tyson, Bernie Vince, pick # 9 and Paul Roos himself. Of course, Jesse Hogan's another matter altogether but that's another story ... I'm ready for the Saints in Round 1. In fact bring on whoever we're due to play in that truncated pre season competition!

Yeah, too bad the recruiters from all the clubs have already decided and that we are going to take Crouch. lol

Hey, as a bottom team we've been given a draw that matches us predominantly against other lower ranked teams, that's fair enough. It is of course, just a coincidence that the teams with the largest supporter bases and the greatest financial resources are all in the top half of the ladder... JUST. A. COINCIDENCE. That said, while I understand the AFL's reasoning for keeping the friday and saturday night games mostly for the 'high-demand' games based on a magic equation of 'current momentum X baseline appeal' of the teams competing, it kind of makes a mockery of things like the equalisation fund. It is time the AFL made it explicit - some clubs miss out financially in the process of the AFL maximising the overall income from the most lucrative game times, and as such the equalisatoin fund should provide a direct compensation for that which the low-status clubs can use to actively promote their club, mobilise existing supports and attract new ones.

Do we not want our club to have a fair chance? Where does it say in the rules that the big clubs must be advantaged to make a truckload more money than the smaller clubs? If it becomes a survival of the fittest, eventually certain clubs will come under the microscope. The gap between the big clubs and the smaller clubs will eventually reach a tipping point. It stands to reason. Whilst we're continuing to get handouts, we'll survive. But for how long? I can see the club needing to sell off more games interstate if this keeps up. Home games against the Eagles, Suns, Swans, Dogs, North, Lions and the Giants would only attract poor to average crowds even if we were travelling well. That leaves the Pies game and maybe the Geelong game. Like last year, we have 7 "home" games against interstate clubs (it was 6 in 2012 and 7 in 2011) Any home game where you're not making at least $300,000 could be construed as a loss. Take out the Queens birthday game and it would be a complete financial disaster. As it is, it's far from ideal. If the AFL truly wants us to stand on our own 2 feet, they'd give us a leg up with 4 or 5 home games (every year) against the bigger drawing Victorian clubs. But we get the opposite - it's as if they want us to get into a financial mess. I'm not making any references to prime time TV games - that's a separate issue and a Channel 7 decision (we have no say in that area but our governing body is not helping us in the other main area of the fixture - big revenue drawing games) Good teams win games no matter who they play. Another soft draw is really not in our best interests. We might get a couple more wins against the weaker teams but where's the satisfaction in that? Sure, we need wins, but we need to balance the books as well. The manic desire of the AFL to maximise crowds, gate revenue's and TV viewers comes at a price. The salary cap and the draft was meant to "equalise" things. Those 2 areas are being whittled away at in the whole scheme of things.

I'm with you OD. Blokes our age cannot look too far ahead!

FMD the optimism has started already. I remember well last season how we were talking about the favourable draw and how 6 wins were likely before.... FMD! Hello fellow groundhogs (WTFTA).

Montagna is suspended for round 1 2014 further depleting their experience. We must win the midfield battle!

Why don't you get off your arse and go the extra 10 minutes on the train or tram. None of us like it there, but get through the turnstiles and support the club.

Screw the AFL. And screw this whining sense of entitlement we have. If we play football that is AFL standard people will come to watch and we won't need handouts. If we don't even the Lord God above wouldn't be able to save us.

As posted elsewhere: Top 10 selection duds: 2003: Tenace, Clarke, Trotter, Dunn 2004: Tambling, Meesen, Russell, Egan 2005: Ellis, Dowler, Oakley-Nichols, Drum 2006: Gumbleton, Thorp, 2007 :Morton, Grant, Palmer, 2008: all still playing with original club 2009: Sheppard, Butcher 2010: Polec, and after 2010 it's too early to tell. Some of the above still have time. Some are debatable, Getting it wrong in the top 10 is common. Who are the likely "dud" we are all craving now: Boyd, Kelly, Aish, Billings, KK, Scharenberg. Lennon, Bontepelli, McDonald, Freeman, Salem? Come on GD, who are they and why couldn't Freeman be one. Most here are judging players on about 5 minutes vision out of say 1600 minutes played in 2013 (20 games by 80 minutes). It's funny how some get wedded to players on so little evidence. I don't have a clue who we'll pick but I know the FD will have their reasons. I also know there is no guarantee they will get it right.

Relax, we've got this.

I guess one of my biggest claims to fame was shaving off a passed out Shane Woey's eyebrow on an end of season footy trip . Maybe that was why he gave up drinking and became a Brownlow medallist. Either way I'm claiming it !!!