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The same AFL that gave us TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS for him leaving? They owe us nothing.

Casey and Hogan - the footballing highlight of every weekend of 2013.

Was talking to one of the current dees players last night, a few points I thought I would share: Thinks Gawn will be a gun, Spencer will be ok to. Hogan better than Clark & Dawes already, beats Frawley at training. Frawley absolute gun, just about best fb in comp Jamar finished Pederson 3 yr deal @ $330k per yr, no one likes him & was same at Nth Rates Terlich & Clisby highly Unsure Blease will make it N.Jones by far the hardest trainer at club Loves Neil Craig Watts is a great bloke, laconic at training though. I asked him who will coach next yr, without hesitation said Roos Shattered about the loss to GWS Thinks if we get some more good mids in can be ok next yr. Thought I would share. Enjoy.

I watched the game with the GWS Coterie group, and after the game chatted to several GWS assistant coaches and players. Here's some of what they said (nothing particularly remarkable). 1. The Demons are a rabble. 2. Getting a coach that the players like/respect is absolutely key and it needs to happen soon - otherwise we're facing a mass player exodus. 3. I reckon GWS are going to have a red hot crack at Frawley next year - they need another key defender, and they reckon Frawley's a gun. Many seemed to think he's our best player. 4. They really rate Scully and reckon he'll dominate next year. Scully thought the MFC was about the most amateur organisation in the country - left for more reasons than just $$$. 5. They thought Toumpas was an absolute bargain at pick 4. They very nearly took him at pick 2. I asked if we stuffed up not picking Wines instead of Toumpas. They said absolutely not - Toumpas will be a bloody good player. Just needs time. 6. Watts may very well go to Carlton. One coach commented that he's talented, but lazy - and he reckoned Watts for Yarran would be a good trade for us. Thought Yarran was a bit lazy too though. 7. Reckons Sylvia will stay, principally due to his age - he's more valuable to the MFC than most other clubs. Rated him our most dangerous player and they were very happy about the way in which they shut him down yesterday. In fact, all were saying Sylvia only jagged 12 possessions - they kept saying it. He is one of the very few mids they rate on our list. One coach liked Matt Jones and they all rate Nathan Jones. 8. They think Trengove and Grimes are solid players, but suggested that they have too much pressure on their shoulders for their age/experience. 9. The AFL is committed to the Demons. Some rumours that Roos will be offered about $2M a year to take the job. He wants to see the MFC get the board structured appropriately before entertaining things any further. Probably doesn't want the job, but the AFL is determined to get him to do it. 10. If this doesn't happen, I think we should throw sheep stations at Choco Williams and Junior McDonald. They rate both of them highly - in fact, the players reckon of all the GWS assistant coaches, Junior is most likely to be a really good head coach. I simply cannot believe how we handled Junior McDonald at the end of his career at the MFC - a total fiasco IMO. 11. Hogan will be a star. 12. Sheedy is probably the most charismatic man in football. Real tragedy we didn't take him in 2007. That's about it.

Do you want to be third umpire for the next test?

Strauss putting his hand up with almost weekly appearances in Casey's best player list.

More supporters were spewing after the Game!

Is That a young Mark Neeld?

Some interesting stuff from Peter Jackson who spoke at the NSW Demons Brunch yesterday morning... 1. The AFL is only giving us 1.5 million to help pay out contracts etc and is NOT conditional on anything. He said the media beats up the story big time and Andrew Demetriou only says what he does so the other clubs don't crack the shits. He said the AFL wanted to make sure the board makeup was right so we could move forward. That is all. 2. Jackson was asked about past players etc like James McDonald and others who were let go in unsavoury circumstances. Jackson said that on Friday he went to James house and had a few beers with him and let him know that he is welcome back anytime. He admitted its a long road to get over his hurt but hopefully he can see the light in the future. 3. Peter spoke passionately about getting the playing side of things right first and this helps the income coming in. Nothing new here obviously but he kept reinforcing how quickly things can change and cited Geelong as an example from years ago when they were completely stuffed and broke and now they are an AFL role model.

The footy dept would not be a very happy workplace at the moment Jackson has told them their development and recruitment stink and there will be wholesale changes in staff They are dead men walking and their minds would be elsewhere Understandably this would rub off on the players and not be very conducive to their confidence and team spirit Will probably get worse until the season ends I hope management (Jackson) realise this and take steps to minimise the rot I once worked for a large company that pre-announced a 20% retrenchment 4 months in advance (no-one named) There was not much work done in those 4 months and morale plummeted

I think it's disingenuous to blame Neeld alone for out current situation. The train wreck that we are today left the station a decade ago and was caused by a combination of poor coaching, poor recruiting, list management and player development. It started in Neale Daniher's latter years and was compounded during Bailey's term. Needless to say, things didn't get any better under Mark Neeld's short tenure but the mess was already there when he arrived.

Anyone who wants us to trade early picks for the best on offer because we cant afford to wait for kids to develop should watch Wingard and Crouch carve it up in the Showdown today and wonder if they would want to miss out on the similar if we got the pick right.

Hogan. Hogan. Hogan. Hogan. Oh, and some sleight of hand with Viney. And a tonne of cash for Clark. We're still ahead of that game.

Thank you for waving the white flag, we know your view, you are also not alone in that view. I understand why you and others feel like that. I feel sick about our plight, but I won't quit and I expect my club not to either.I would prefer to dig in for the fight and a tough one it will be. Every year there is a club at the bottom of the ladder, that is pathetic and is an easybeat. The last couple of years that is us. I am ignoring GWS because they clearly will rise with more games experience. Our task is huge, but not impossible. I have invested 55 years in this club and I am not prepared to have it be for nothing. We have a good CEO. I believe we are about to appoint a good Footy Manager at season's end. I hope we appoint a good Coach. We have a new recruiting Manager about to have his first go for us at this year's draft. We are now looking strongly at development of players, rather than simply drafting them. We have a major ally in the AFL. In the short term they can help with finance, sponsorship and draft assistance. We need to be ruthless with our list. We hopefully have Clark back next year and a fit Dawes. Jesse will also play. We need to draft well and will have the chance to get a couple of the best young mids. We MIGHT be able to trade in a couple of experienced mids. If we put a top pick up or someone like Watts we might be able to get some more experienced mids in. If we cherrypick like the Tigers did for needs, there are players out there not getting a run at their clubs, who may add experience and hardness. I am not saying we get these guys necessarily, but players like Bell, Laidler and Duigan at Carlton are not being played and will leave and are hungry. Sewell may be on the outer at Hawthorn, especially as Cooney is being mentioned and even Martin to go to Hawthorn if Buddy leaves. A new coach can develop a new culture if there is significant change in the list. Adding 5-6 good mids and quick skillful players can change our list substantially. Over a year or two these players could completely change our game. Players like Viney, Toumpas, Fitzy, Clisby, Terlich, Blease, Gawn, Kent, Taggert, Tynan and McDonald etc can improve. Most agree our backs, forwards and rucks will be ok. We are pathetic in the midfield and couple that with a lack of disposal skill and pace and knowledge of a simple game plan, explains our current state on the field. We saw Port being beaten by GWS, have no money and being called the Melbourne of last year. Look at them now. It can be done. I agree it will not be easy to entice stars to our club, in fact it will be probably be impossible at the moment. However do we need stars now, or players with talent and hunger who are prepared to do whatever it takes, not in the Bombers' way, to forge successful AFL careers. Those players are out there, we just have to find them. I think of Barlow and even our Matt Jones from the VFL. What about other clubs in the AFL and the other clubs around the country. There are players who have been overlooked or are not getting a game, we must identify a few and get them.They are the sort of players who would come to us. They could provide the hard bodies, skill and experience that we need for the next period to get us competitive and back in the game again. I could go on, but I have made my point. WE ARE NOT FINISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too am a little bemused. Did it take losing to GWS for supporters to suddenly realise our parlous position ? That said, Paul Roos wrote a lightweight article that I largely agreed with stating that things can turn quicker than people think if some astute trading, developing and implementing, i.e. game-plan/tactics is done during the off season. That didn't change with a loss to GWS and it wouldn't have changed with a win.

A pathetic soulless mess. If it was an animal you'd do the humane thing and put it down to save it suffering any further. I've just about had it with this club. I really have. It's just a joke that never ends, with players that either don't give a [censored], or give a [censored] but aren't good enough to do anything about it. The anger is well and truly turning to apathy. We lost to GWS today and I barely care.

Melbourne Football Club for the love of God! #CaptainJones2014MFC

Blease and Strauss should be getting gigs ahead of Pederson and Dunn because Pederson and Dunn are not part of our future. Dunn is a turnover king and Pederson a spud. We need to at least see if Strauss is up to AFL, we know Blease is, he is just inconsistent. Blease in the VFL can be explained, he'll be a demon next year... But Strauss we need to see more of.

Yes, let's ruin them too.

Purely on Scully he took a heap of unearned cash and is not at a basket case of a footy club anymore. As much as I hate to say it he has done well for himself.

HaHaHa, geez i'm glad he's gone, what a [censored].

Yes, it was just you.

Alot of that is fair enough, but geeze they're up and about for a club that just notched up its first win of the season. It becomes alot easier to give someone a whack after you've beaten them, although perhaps you were talking to some 19 year olds who just felt like looking down on another club, for once. Worth noting this is the same mob we kicked 12 goals against in a quarter. But for now they can enjoy their win. It's also no tragedy we didn't get Sheedy. His role at GWS seems to be that of a spruiker rather than a senior coach, and they're still playing in empty stadiums with no-one giving two hoots about them. Maybe he could've done a better job than Bailey, but I personally don't chalk it up as one of the club's failings, of which there are many.

What about Sewell? He would be handy.

People having a go at a 19 year-old first-year player are missing the bigger picture. In fact, arguably, the entire picture. Our club is rotten. The culture is putrid. We can't develop players and are mediocre to the core. None of this is Toumpas' fault - unfortunately it is now his problem.

This is spot on. We are far too lenient on Grimes. He is a C-grade footballer at best. Without being melodramatic at all, his kicking is probably the worst of anyone on our list. We make fun of Dunn, Nicholson, McDonald for their kicking, but they are adding value in other areas. It's sad, but right now I query whether he's adding any value to the side. At all. Howe's worse. 8 disposals today. That is pathetic. He is lazy, he doesn't care about doing team things, he bobs up for a few flashy runs/kicks/marks but generally gives us nothing for most of the game. Trengove at least tackles. But otherwise he continually looks like he's running on a treadmill. He can't get to enough contests, he can't apply defensive pressure because he can't run. Sylvia's got mostly the same issues as Howe. Plenty of talent, nowhere near enough effort. Davey's another 'leader' who is giving us squat. It's killing us.

I am sick of hearing they look down. How about showing it on the ground where it actually matters. Craig is kidding himself if he thought our effort was there. They were outrun by a bunch of kids whilst they jogged the lines of the square. Our effort and execution is the worst I have seen of any side over a season in my 38 years of watching football.

Thats the kind of sober thinking that is usually reserved for Tuesdays. Everyone was enjoying a meltdown and then you come along with your rational reasoning.

If you don't know where you've been, you don't know where you're going. It's not about living in the past. It's not even about copying the past. It's not about the need to forge a new future. It's about pride, heritage and ultimately, it's about who we are. We are the oldest organised sporting club in the world, and we don't even have our website telling people who we are, and where we come from.

No. We need players that can win their own ball. Sewell can still do this. He would walk into our midfield every week, even next year. Offer him a big three year contract. The leadership he would provide our young mids (those already there and those no doubt coming in) would be invaluable.

Well, we've got a decent chance of getting young Tom on board now....

You can't blame Jimmy Toumpas for not being Oliver Wines. At least he puts in and seems to have the right attitude, unlike Morton or even Watts.

I can see clearly now... No, wait, that's the optometrists thread!

shudder! (you just reminded me of Schwabby) fair dinkum, he's thinking about changing his place of work. His contract is up for renewal, and he wonders about maybe moving on. So he's disappointed at how he's gone and how the company is going, and he thinks about his options. You want him to put his blazer on and kiss the statue, and beg our forgiveness for admitting to thinking what any intelligent employee would weigh up today? But of course, the club has well and truly demonstrated loyalty in its treatment of its longterm servants, hasn't it? How could the players not have soaked this up?

Pedersen is being over rated on todays performance. Does things ok when the ball falls for him but other than that just doesn't work hard or run to the right spots when he needs to defend. Makes a lot of poor decisions.

NO. THE CLUB HIRE THE WRONG PEOPLE. The supporters of this soft bellied club have stuck fat. Before Bomba sorted out the handbags Sleepy Hollow sacked lots of coaches. They were broke in 99

Was at the game. We just don't work hard enough,they were too fast on the outside and our disposal across the team is crap. Craig got out coached. Who picked 3 talls when they are all light runners at GWS? Garland was limping around all game should not have been out there. It was just awful.

Yep, then we'd only be 6 players shy of a competent midfield.

Nathan Jones And Viney can hold their heads high. The rest of the team need to pull up their shorts cause they just got dacked by the worst team in the comp. 3 word analysis for the players that turned up today: Nathan Jones: should be captain Jack Viney: absolute [censored] champion

jumbo, Clint, you're pathetic. You're truly pathetic. You're having a go at a first-year player when our 'senior' players were not just as bad, they were worse. Toumpas has his whole career ahead of him. Where is Howe at? Sylvia? Davey? Grimes? Trengove? Those are the players you should be venting about. Your continual collective inability to recognise how hard it is for a first-year player to play at a consistently high standard when he has no support, no leadership, and no confidence is bewildering at best.

Yes, it's been said many times that it wasn't all Neeld's fault, it was Schwab's poor chains of command, Connolly, the blatant tanking, the handling of Junior and other senior players, the weak list management for years, a sleepy Board, etc. But, by God Neeld was the nail in the coffin.

We play in Melbourne or we die. Simple.

Can we get over this childish school thing and concentrate on the real issues. Finding the right coaching group and Improvement of and development of our playing list. I don't give a flying f... which school they went to, I only care about their football ability thank you!

At the risk of being howled down, didn't most of us think this would be the way it went? Our last 4 games have been poor and the club is in the middle of significant change. We were insipid but the sky is not falling in.

Man is that a load. Neeld did much damage to this group. He was a lousy people manager. In the words of a player I spoke to last week, arrogant know all who neither commanded nor gave respect.