Leaderboard

Totally inaccurate. Melbourne has done a lot of work with local schools and clubs in the municipality and is often complimented in the local media for the work its doing there. Nor is the relationship dysfunctional although it has its moments from time to time. When Chris Connolly was being unfairly attacked in the media, it was the president of one of the strong local clubs Cranbourne who praised him for his work in the area. The team won't always be a basket case and this a long term project. The worst thing is for people who don't know what's going on to put in their two bob's worth. Casey leads by 7 points.

KC, I haven't said this for a while but I, along with many others on this forum, appreciate your efforts to keep us updated about the scorps on match days and during the week. Reading your reports are always great as well. Thanks again.

Okay, I'm a habitual onlooker and rarely post but I can't sleep and wanted to share thoughts of a lunch I attended at Kooyong. First up I will say I knew too few people at the venue and I'm afraid my view may have been skewed somewhat through the bottom of my glass but here goes... Mike Sheehan was the MC and although I've always disliked him he had a red and blue tie on and hung nothing on us. He asked insightful questions all day, cutting the line between relevant and rude. Never did he cross into rude. He's earnt my respect. I will add at one point he made me chuckle by adding that he liked where our favourite Caro had placed herself as "now as the heat was right off him". First speaker Jon Ralph. To be honest, I knew little about him and paid little attention. Seemed a nice bloke. Next up, young Jack Viney. When asked where the moon boot was and said that he was allowed to have it off for two hours. All strictly regimented. Should be back one week after the bye by medicos estimations. First game, asked about "bitter / sweet" good personal game / poor team performance. Spoke of feeling glad to fulfil lifelong dream of donning the Red and Blue. Felt he played a good game and enjoyed finding good mate Ollie Wines to leave the field despite the scoreboard disappointment. Didn't understand the boos at the end of the game as he "didn't feel the umpires had done that poorly but then, as they got closer to the race, realised it was for us". He spoke about being at the club for pre-season 2012 and confirmed reports that all facets of 2013 performance were improved. Is very suprised that the club as a whole hasn't followed suit. Not much insightful stuff, all in all, a well drilled professional. At a free grog function (he wasn't drinking), at 19, I reckon I'd have mistaken the microphone for a taco! By the way, from a strictly heterosexual point of view, what an impressive rig that lad runs! Then came Todd Viney. When asked about the biggest regret of the off season (bait) said that none of the players lost had made them hurt and then said... but Moloney. I know there is a whole thread on this but he spoke of how he and Neeld "never saw eye to eye". He said that from the moment he was removed from the leadership group he had his back up. Then when Moloney was asked to lose weight (bulk) to increase mobility and asked to play a mentoring role the poles moved further apart. Ironic considering losing weight to increase mobility was the first thing he did up north... I digress... He reported that he resisted every instruction. He defended Neeld by saying he was nowhere near his B&F form and he also (more interestingly) by no means blamed Moloney but simply stated that not everyone was going to get along with a new coach. He mentioned there was not much they could do to retain him with free agency. He also regretted losing Riv (nothing more said). He was asked about recruiting and stated the loss of so many top 20 draft picks (named Morton, Cook, Scully & Gysberts, in that order) created the need to "fill a few holes". Talked about his days at Hawthorn as coach and how Clarko was in the barrel after results weren't coming. Top draft pick Roughy hadn't fired a shot in 18 months, recruiting was considered poor, they'd lost talent to retirement and things looked glum. He spoke of the days when Akka (and others) got to Brisbane under Lethal and built a powerhouse. He said that young Jack needed to look at that. He inferred that Melbourne find themselves in a similar position but we need to stick fat. He said that the club had plenty of talent and rated themselves fortunate to land all of Tompas ("who they rated as one of, if not the best in the draft") Hogan and of course young Jack but needed support around them. This is why they recruited short term, culture building professionals like Burns, Rodan and Gilles. We all know that but the comment that interested me was "they are there to chop out when the young ones need a rest". I won't waste a paragraph... He was asked about Jack Watts and stated that he "is not overly competitive by nature" thus the placement of him in the backline as he doesn't have the agro to demand the ball in the forward line. He cited days of old that if he was a combative forward he'd have liked to "snot" a Matty Scarlett type. He described him as a great reader with exquisite skills and the move was to help him show his constructive talent. He has hopes he will find some agro but seemed unsure that he will. He admitted rival clubs would be sniffing around but stated MFC was completly devoid of 100 plus gamers (I know he hasn't played that many) and he was required. He then stated that more or less loves Chunk and that Sylvia also was required to help extract the pill. With less admiration (my read) on the 100 plus gamers was Jamar. He also stated that Davey was "at the end of his career". Then came lunch... glug... glug... excuse my lack of specifics from here... Ron Barrasi spoke of the lack of executive level leadership at the club. When asked since when, basically said since they sacked Norm. Didn't believe in hoodoo's but believed this has been our downfall. Made no regrets for leaving the club after the way they treated Norm. Said Norm asked him to stay after to take over his job for one more year but he'd already committed to Carlton and that he wouldn't go back on his word. He appeared very emotional (good red). Cheers, Jono.

A good night, thanks to OPSM for the facilities, they were great hosts. Jones was a bit late, traffic was horrendous in the average weather last night. So started off with Robbo questioning Neeld and then Craig. Inexperience was obviously a topic covered by Neeld, Trengove and Grimes being captains came up (and was quizzed again in questions), Neeld explained how last years preseason, they had a number of categories relating to elite preparation and all players and coaches rated the players from 1-7, this exercise found the two Jacks head and shoulders above everyone else. It also found only 2 of the previous years leadership group to be in the top 15. This year, after the Darwin camp (maybe in it), the exercise was done again, the two Jacks again clearly up the top, but gap was much smaller to others, with Jones third in rankings. Neeld also spoke of how he had been given specific directives when he got the job about changes to be made (took this to mean mainly cultural type issues) and how he has gone about making such changes and seems happy with how he is doing this. It is the first time I have heard him speak about such a mandate for change and he says he was under no illusions as to just how hard the task would be. Craig talked a bit about his role before the first question. This was to Mark and about the older players bought into the club, how Rodhan wasn't recruited to play week by week, but to fill holes when kids needed a rest and for his influence around the club, Byrnes to bring his Geelong experience and help lead around the club, Sellar bought up by Craig, quizzed on Pedo by questioner and how seemingly little done at Casey, 49 marks and 25 marks in defence last 2 games was Neelds reaction. The next question was from a feisty bloke who really got stuck into Neeld about his continual use of the word "inexperience" and for making 2 obviously very young and "inexperienced" players as co-captains. Neeld had only just started answering before the guy decided to continue on. Mark again talked about the process of selecting captains and where our players are at, talking about the implications of having so few games into our players and how inexperience does not mean they lack talent and how in his opinion GWS and the Suns are the most talented lists. Jonesy had arrived and talked about his football experiences so far and Craig recalled his interview with Nathan in 2005 and how he had hoped to draft him to Adelaide. I got the next question in and asked Neeld what he wishes he had done differently (the others had covered what I had planned to ask), his response was pretty much nothing, how he'd been given a job to do and was doing it. I followed it up with mentioning that at training before Freo he was much more active than I had ever seen before, he said he hadn't noticed it. Peter then let Nathan know that despite the criticism, the bulk of supporters were right behind the boys, something I backed up to Nathan after the presentations. There were a couple more questions I have forgotten the bulk of, though they talked about how they try and stop other teams when they get a run on. The final question was about how Nathan is handling being tagged this year, something he has hardly experienced before but has happened a lot this year. He mentioned how he investigates the opponent he is expecting to be tagged by, watching footage of them and watching footage of other players who have been tagged by said player to get some ideas on what they did differently to beat the tag. Afterwards, had a quick chat with Neeld, asking about Sam Blease, who I'm a fan of, he mentioned that while devastating in attack, that Sam needs to continue to improve his defensive efforts and how he is hoping Sam plays in at least 8 of our remaining games, though probably not till after the bye. I then asked Jonesy to show me the tatt of his Grandfather, as my bro had told me its great and he wasn't exaggerating. We had a chat about training and how it is frustrating that what they are doing on the track is not really showing itself in games. That about covers it as best as I can recall. Thanks again to OPSM and the club, was an enjoyable night.

Actually, Geelong have been very good at the early introduction of their young blood who have had it much easier being introduced into the game with plenty of seasoned, experienced players around them to make the transition so much smoother. And let's not forget that all three who you've mentioned and several other young early draft prospects have had injury problems plaguing them in the early stages of their careers. For those detractors of the club who think we have no future, I reckon there were seven or eight young blokes out there today who will, in 12 months time, be important members of a much improved Melbourne team. Names like Gawn, Blease, Toumpas, Hogan, Taggert etc.

I think it needs to be clarified that there's a difference between the objective of embracing the wider and fast developing Casey/Cardinia region and gaining a toehold there for future membership growth and the current relationship between the MFC and the Casey Scorpions. Nobody doubts the difficulties in an AFL-VFL alignment but you can't call ours dysfunctional. It's not much different to the others and in fact, better than many of the others which have crumbled or are crumbling. The Blues and the Hawks have completely swallowed up their aligned clubs, the Bulldogs are splitting with Williamstown, Essendon's departure from Bendigo decimated that club and the Sandy/St. Kilda combination isn't looking all that healthy, not to mention that there are significant problems with the quality and size of TBBO. Casey itself is virtually broke after issues with pokie licences (I'm sure the cost of Fevola didn't help) and is having its own debt demolition campaign soon. It understands the issues involved with AFL player list management/surgeries and other matters that have plagued the end of their seasons. It's not ideal but against the bigger picture of what benefits can be attained by the partnership in the long run, the Casey venture needs to be looked at above and beyond petty club politics.

Went to the game today to see hogan. A couple of good pack marks and seems to love throwing his weight around, very exciting. He is going to be good but i hope someone teaches him a better set shot approach. He does this stutter/skip thing about 3 steps before kicking it. Should have kicked a few more today, but loved his marking ability and attack, wish he could play now. My thoughts on some players:- Taggert was really good today I'd give him a game next week. Took some good marks and I think showed a bit of class with his disposal in the wet Blease was really good in the first half, I didn't see him get too many touches in the 3rd but at the 3 qtr time huddle the coach made special mention of the forwards defense pressure and noted that blease had 22 DI's(no idea what DI stands for but I'm presuming something to do with defense acts) so he must have been follow the coaches instructions. Couch and Magner were good as always. Magner back in next week. Clsiby was good coming off half back, has a good kick. Spencer and Gawn switched between ruck and forward and both could have kicked a few more as missed a few set shots. maybe a bit harsh as it was wet. They had to play on Kosi in the ruck and jason blake when they went forward, both these saints boys are passed it. Dom barry provided some really good outside run. Nev Jetta i didn't notice to much but popped up with a goal in the last Sellar played down back and was lucky sandy kept bombing it long as he got a lot of intercept marks. I saw he was mentioned in the best players but he really didn't have to do too much defending today so got a lot of easy touches. It was good to see a lot of the boys there to support casey, I saw watts, frawley, grimes, trengove, tappy, T mac, Nico, Pickles. All the coaches were there as well

Enough please. I reckon it's only a matter of time that someone's going to say "because Mark Neeld" if the toilets don't flush at Casey Fields. Get a grip, people. Meanwhile at beautiful Trevor Barker Beach Road Oval by the bay, it's a low scoring development league game with Sandringham leading 3.3.21 to Casey 2.1.13.

there's no answer to how long..... How long is a piece of string? Who knows......We'll only know when we get to the end.... I agree that what we are producing just isn't good enough.... But again.... I don't think moving Neeld on is going to change this..... It's a thing only time will change..... Clarkson didn't turn the hawks around in 1.5 years..... More like 4 years (which is really fast).... And we all know that west coast where tanking..... It must be super hard to change the culture of a club, without the support of the supporters..... Considering that the supporter are the ones that drive the culture..... We have an overly conservative and analytical supporter base, that are he'll bend on keeping the norm.... If we want change, then we need to change..... It's the only way.... Otherwise we'll continue to just make up the numbers until our dyeing day.... I couldn't care less whether we move Neeld on.... But he has my support until we do.....

Your wrong because the stuff you describe in game focuses on what the players are doing wrong at times within in a game. The team does not do those wrong things throughout the whole game. There are times when the team does all the things its supposed to do, we get confidence but when challenged the inexperienced players fall back into the wrong routines. This as Neeld has said in numerous Pressers is because the team is inexperienced. Every anti-Neeld poster hear like to blame all the team losses on MN Coaching. But we never acknowledge that the teams we lose to are much more improved then we are. for example we lost to the Bummers by a large margin, but this season they have dismantled some pretty good sides , they were an okay side last year but are further along in their development this year, Gold Coast they are a side who are full of really good young players and now that they are into their third year they are gaining some ground. Apart from Port who jumped us early (and we did not recover) we have played Brisbane (NAB Cup Winners) Carlton, Richmond, Fremantle and West Coast all who are clubs a lot further developed then us. I like many others was buoyant at the season start thinking we would be a lot further along. I was wrong and my expectations were unrealistic. So now as I have said previously I just keep waiting for the mental aspect of the game to change with the players and how they attack the game. I am hoping to be presently surprised. The second part of you post is conjecture, how do you know how Mark Neeld coaches his players. I see the persona you talk about in your post when he is talking to the press, but that is a reaction to the press and not necessarily how he would coach his players. If you ever hear the questions being asked by the media you can understand why you would get annoyed as an AFL coach because they are the most purile questions "how does that loss sit with you?" is probably my most favourite. I don't think he is about discipline but more about being clear on expectations with players which other have said about him. As a coach and motivator that's what you want. Clear instructions about what is required so you can go out an get it done. Finallly Buy in is wonderful but execution and maintaining mental fortitude still needs to happen, it's going to take little time to learn which has been the message for a while now from the coach. The media continue to make the agenda about MN and Mark continues to ignore the them.

Just for the record as haven't expressed an opinion on Mark, I really like what he has tried to do, he inherited a club with a shocking culture and has tried to fix it. He's rattled some cages and put noses out of joint. I want him to coach until round 20, give him the free air Peter Jackson rightfully talked about, if things aren't changed by then, we would have to look at a new coach. I do think though that if we have back to back hidings over the next fortnight, I can't help but wonder if we can afford not to make a change, as we will be bleeding money from the lost gate receipts if things don't turn around soon.

I like these two but I feel it will have the same effect as brining in kent and Toumpas did. Until we get the core of a hard working team these young but under prepared types will continue to struggle

Yeah, I know. Sorry. I'm keen to know about a couple and KC is always a good read.

Good work KC, thanks for the updates & thanks for putting some of these imbeciles in their place.

Just shows why junior deserved 1 more year. Also shows why the jacks were appointed, there was such a gulf in leadership, we didn't even have that "stop gap" option. Not one with the same credentials as vandenberg, or even Kane Johnson/Chris Newman. That reason, that's why I'm comfortable about the long term position on field. We've finally got structures to deal with development and leadership, guys who will build to that expectation of how "elite" teams train and play. Jeez it's frustrating watching now though!

so "Neeld is not the problem" - more to the point is whether he's the solution. According to some, he may be so long as we can wait several years; no-one else can solve the problem any quicker, runs the argument, so suck it up and fill in your time rubbishing the players etc. Some of us barrack for the team, which means the players, and we don't think they are that lousy. Didn't think Jurrah was either. Liked his attack on the ball, and his instinct for finding team-mates and the goals. Imagine that Moloney had more to offer than we got from him. Really liked Green's presence, as an older and still skilful member of the team. Remember commentators saying we would be the next big thing, and loved the attacking game when it clicked. Etc. Some of us don't think waiting several years is an acceptable time-frame for evaluating our rookie coach - especially when by everyone's opinion we are going steadily, astonishingly, backwards. We don't want to comply with the argument that insists we are now powerless to advocate any alternatives, and stupid if we try to anyway. Maybe Neeld is not the solution we want. It is, obviously, only speculation for any of us to say what would happen if Neeld was replaced by someone else - but a new coach would be hard pressed to make us any worse than we are currently. If the five year time-frame is not an acceptable solution, then Neeld by his revised promises is simply not our man. Just as he cast his eye over our leadership group, and a big percentage of our players, and said "they are not what I want"... Raises the next question, though - who? Which is another thread. But as to this thread, whether you call him the problem or just not the solution, I think Neeld's time-frame is a game-changer. Not what a lot of us supporters, or sponsors or broadcasters, are up for at all. what we all need is players and a team we can get behind. We need some x-factor, some hope; something more than just slow grinding resignation of the "it is what it is" variety. That's no solution.

We go around in circles. No it is not heresy about the inherent problems of our club .... They are well documented & my comment does not need defending . You could not possibly in all honesty equate the problems of the mfc with the on field performance of the players & the coaching of mark neeld. I also agree with Jackson's comment that these problems can definitely be fixed but will take time. Time....that cliched word that no-one wants to hear.. It is somewhat symptomatic of our society ....instant gratification ....instant results! I am as despondent as you with our on field performances but until you can give me a viable solution to neeld's sacking & the benefits of a caretaker coach then I am prepared to back the coach. Jon Ralph, robbo etc arguments make no impression on me. They do not know....follow my club as I do ......they have papers to fill & readers to entertain !

On the upside I will have a moon boot on shortly, which is almost official MFC merchandise these days!

After reading the thread from the beginning it's interesting to see how it's gone from a fluff article about some positive comments from Robbo to a strong, pro Neeld thread. Masterstroke by the marketing department.

But the numbers here were quite telling.As I said, the surveys were in various categories to do with training, preparation etc, how much a player works to get the best of himself. only 2 of the previous leadership group were in the top 15 at the club. That tells me just how much our leadership at the time stank. Drastic changes needed to be made. Neeld talked about how nervous he was choosing these two and recalled having a conversation with Nathan Buckley who was considering Pendels as captain but wasn't sure he was experienced enough and how Neeld mentioned he had no problems compared to him, as Neeld was looking at co-captains with less than 60 games of experience. I didn't get the impression it was a decision taken lightly or decided by the numbers, but rather a decision forced upon them as they realised that they had to take drastic steps as the leadership there was not leading as they should.

Well I didn't expect much goodwill from you so obviously I can tick you off the list.

A good night, thanks to OPSM for the facilities, they were great hosts. Jones was a bit late, traffic was horrendous in the average weather last night. So started off with Robbo questioning Neeld and then Craig. Inexperience was obviously a topic covered by Neeld, Trengove and Grimes being captains came up (and was quizzed again in questions), Neeld explained how last years preseason, they had a number of categories relating to elite preparation and all players and coaches rated the players from 1-7, this exercise found the two Jacks head and shoulders above everyone else. It also found only 2 of the previous years leadership group to be in the top 15. This year, after the Darwin camp (maybe in it), the exercise was done again, the two Jacks again clearly up the top, but gap was much smaller to others, with Jones third in rankings. Neeld also spoke of how he had been given specific directives when he got the job about changes to be made (took this to mean mainly cultural type issues) and how he has gone about making such changes and seems happy with how he is doing this. It is the first time I have heard him speak about such a mandate for change and he says he was under no illusions as to just how hard the task would be. Craig talked a bit about his role before the first question. This was to Mark and about the older players bought into the club, how Rodhan wasn't recruited to play week by week, but to fill holes when kids needed a rest and for his influence around the club, Byrnes to bring his Geelong experience and help lead around the club, Sellar bought up by Craig, quizzed on Pedo by questioner and how seemingly little done at Casey, 49 marks and 25 marks in defence last 2 games was Neelds reaction. The next question was from a feisty bloke who really got stuck into Neeld about his continual use of the word "inexperience" and for making 2 obviously very young and "inexperienced" players as co-captains. Neeld had only just started answering before the guy decided to continue on. Mark again talked about the process of selecting captains and where our players are at, talking about the implications of having so few games into our players and how inexperience does not mean they lack talent and how in his opinion GWS and the Suns are the most talented lists. Jonesy had arrived and talked about his football experiences so far and Craig recalled his interview with Nathan in 2005 and how he had hoped to draft him to Adelaide. I got the next question in and asked Neeld what he wishes he had done differently (the others had covered what I had planned to ask), his response was pretty much nothing, how he'd been given a job to do and was doing it. I followed it up with mentioning that at training before Freo he was much more active than I had ever seen before, he said he hadn't noticed it. Peter then let Nathan know that despite the criticism, the bulk of supporters were right behind the boys, something I backed up to Nathan after the presentations. There were a couple more questions I have forgotten the bulk of, though they talked about how they try and stop other teams when they get a run on. The final question was about how Nathan is handling being tagged this year, something he has hardly experienced before but has happened a lot this year. He mentioned how he investigates the opponent he is expecting to be tagged by, watching footage of them and watching footage of other players who have been tagged by said player to get some ideas on what they did differently to beat the tag. Afterwards, had a quick chat with Neeld, asking about Sam Blease, who I'm a fan of, he mentioned that while devastating in attack, that Sam needs to continue to improve his defensive efforts and how he is hoping Sam plays in at least 8 of our remaining games, though probably not till after the bye. I then asked Jonesy to show me the tatt of his Grandfather, as my bro had told me its great and he wasn't exaggerating. We had a chat about training and how it is frustrating that what they are doing on the track is not really showing itself in games. That about covers it as best as I can recall. Thanks again to OPSM and the club, was an enjoyable night.

I have the answer, but I'm not telling you. I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW DOO DAAAAA. Spare us, please.

At least you know what you're getting with Joel Mac, and that is 100% effort for 4 quarters. We could do a lot worse than playing him.

Thank so much for thoughtfully starting yet another tedious thread on how much we will lose by, how many goals player x will kick, how big a loss to we need to justify sacking Neeld tomorrow night etc etc etc. It seems that there are a growing number here who would actually hate us to turn up a surprise against a big scalp lest the pressure to sack Neeld immediately may wane.

Develop Gawn, Taggert, Tynan, Toumpas, Kent (and of course Hogan) all at Casey this year. They will get a winning feel and play alongside each other.

You will never get Scarlett out of Geelong,Black out of Qld or Lloyd out of his own arse.

I tend to think bring them in against the weaker sides and see if they can make a difference at all. Much better that trying to blood new players against the Hawks or Pies.

Deanox, I think people need to stop bringing up Junior's retirement, as at best he would have played one more year with us and that would have been in Bailey's last year. We are now under a new Coach and Junior has no relevance to this situation. PS. I agreed at the time with Junior retiring as he was 34 and constantly injured.

Rory has had stress fractures in his back and played virtually no footy last year. He did a limited pre-season this year. As you would expect his fitness is not at AFL level yet. But he will get there, and he has all the tools to be an 150 AFL game onballer/high half-forward.

Taggert goals again. He's having a good day in front of goal.

I think perhaps the relationship with the City of Casey has been more harmonious than that with the football club.

One of the good things about the MFC/Scorps relationship is that a lot of the young and fringe MFC players are getting game time together in a successful side. Will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow as the 6 inclusions have been playing a lot of footy together recently.

I am a footy tragic but I cannot believe the truckloads of bull shyte that fox footy serves up after and during games with the David King segments. King and his techno Garbo loses me after the first 10 seconds! If bullpoo was 10 cents a kilo then King and fox footy would be billionaires...fair [censored] dinkum.

That's the French side. Naturalement.

The bloke makes that many predictions that he'd have to get a few of them right.

I often wonder if, in the context of the MFC, there is such a thing as a "normal football supporter". I think Satyriconhome has dealt with your question and most posters here have dealt with the subject in a fairly positive manner. Can we please keep the thread going in that vein?

I hear you all, but I see the games too. Great talk, [censored] walk, I say - a plain as day naked Emperor. For me, what's happening on the field undermines any explanations and arguments you put up. So that telling me how impressed you were by listening to Neeld speak just isn't going to outweigh my impression of how the team is playing under his coaching. You claim that good foundations are being laid - but this will of course only be verified (if it is verified) in the future; likewise, my claim that we can't afford to wait will only be verified (if it is) in the future. Where I think I have you is, what it is all about - going to the footy to watch our team. That is a present and unambiguous horror show. Missing the most basic fundamentals of manning up and tackling, spreading and shepherding - nothing to do with experience or skill. Without these things, there is no winning. I don't know how to enjoy the game when I spend three out of every four quarters groaning in frustration at the vacant centre and the 10 metre policy in minding your man. We lose every game in uncontested possession, so we focus everything on contested possession. I tell myself, this rubbish cannot be a sound foundation for the future, no matter who says what. Tell me how I'm wrong. I'll tell you something I haven't read here yet: there is a type of belittling teacher who uses sarcasm and autocratic means to secure intense loyalty from his students; students commonly learn to embrace his every little signal, knowing that there are rewards for those who please. Compliance is his yardstick and he stands firm on "walk, don't run". It's true that a regime of discipline does bring some reward, and this teacher's students may have a degree of success (if they don't rebel). But it's also true that others taught differently will go further, both at the time, and even more so in subsequent education. So I ask myself, when is all this buy-in going to produce results other than players (and supporters) declaring loyalty to Neeld? And when will the agenda stop being about this man and become about the team?

I think this is a problem that someone else mentioned. A good coach is across the art as well as the science of football, Neeld and Craig seem a bit too enamoured with the science. Surveys and all are great but in the end you take that in have a look at the situation in front of you and make a decision based on what you think works not some number crunching tells you.

David King predicted 12 months ago the predicament that we would be in today. King has also stuck solid in his assessment on Neeld, which has proven to be absolutely spot on. Personally I can't stand King, but he's been spot on about Melbourne and Neeld.

Wouldn't mind seeing Black as a Midfield coach and part time player next year, similar to Junior at GWS, still got some games in the legs.

If you asked me two days ago about neeld I would have said time to go. A conversation I had yesterday has completely changed my view. He has at least some player support and perhaps he is just feeling the effects of a culmination of bad decisions and cultural problems.

In regard players leaving clubs, I loved Bob Murphy's take on it. When asked if he would leave the Bulldogs to play finals he said what was important to him was that the Bulldogs won a premiership not for him to play in one. Although he knows his premiership window has closed, he wanted to stay and help. Robbie Flower springs to mind here. I hope we have some present players that prove to be of that calibre. I'm sure we will.

Who [censored] cares how many "Bloody" Franklin kicks this week ?? What a farkin pointless thread to be placed on any Forum connected with the Melbourne Football Club !!! I do not give a shyte if he kicks 20... I will only be caring whether or not our boys have a red hot go or not.. So we don't have the cattle at the moment. Why don't we admit that and get over it and maybe stop ripping the crap out of Mark Neeld , the whole FD and those players that simply are not up to AFL senior standard.. Until we are able to MOVE ON those players who are not going to make it and try and replace them with more talented personnel, we will NOT be competitive !! Simple as that !! Whether we like it or not... THIS WILL TAKE MORE TIME !! We just need the people that have been put in positions at the Club to pull their fingers out and show us they are putting in the effort to get us back into an acceptable position... !! Dwelling on past history (the good and the bad) will never get us out of this hole we are in... !!

I was also at the meeting last night and had prior to the meeting come to the conclusion that Neeld should go in the shorter term. I now after listening to both Neeld and Craig believe that he should at least be given to the end of the season. Both spoke honestly and both openly passionate about the Club and where it is and where it is going. Nate is well grounded and definitely a "leader" but I don't believe he is Captain material and I am not sure he would want it anyway. With regard to the appointing of the two Jacks, there were two rounds of surveying of players choice of captain, the second being after the Darwin expedition. Again the two Jacks could not be separated and were well in front of the next couple but also after Darwin there were six players who definitely stood above the rest. How could they not appoint them after going through that lengthy process otherwise why bother. FD Just appoint who they like. What would the players have felt then. Also how could they have known what crap would be thrown up over the last season and half. All very well to have hindsight. As to how the players are dealing with the year, Nate did say that the players were absolutely blown away when the supporters all came down to training that Thursday morning. He said that that support meant so much to the players (I took from that that are devastated when they get booed). Another comment that Nate made about how the team has played was that being such a young side in terms of games played, was about momentum change within a game. As an older player he could feel momentum change but the younger players don't sense that because they are concentrating on their own games and it was difficult during a game to get that message across. He said they have to be better at getting that through to the other players. Last night was a fantastic step for the Club to take and I commend them for taking the initiative. I believe the Club has plans to take their message to the supporters more in the future. We, like the players have to stop listening to the "noise" coming from the media. They are in a feeding frenzy when it comes to Melbourne. They are whipping up a perfect storm if we let them.

David King is stating the bleeding obvious. The hiring of Neeld as I have said since round 5, last year is the single biggest error this club has made since the dismissal of Norm Smith. The evidence for this is overwhelming. He continues to do untold damage, he may not have started the rot but he has brought this club to its knees. On Monday our board meets, it is my view that the board have no choice but to dismiss Neeld. It is true we are now in a no win situation. Due to our quickly deteriorating financial position which is a direct result of our appalling on-field performances since Neeld became coach, the cost of dismissing him will be a parting, painful, sting and final insult. It will put Melbourne deep into the red. However, let me make this very clear, the cost of maintaining him will be 10 fold that of paying out his contract. In just 18 months under Neeld our club has gone from an exciting up and coming team, a club with no debt, a club with an expanding supporter base and genuine belief in future success, a club on the up. It is now a club that is the embarrassment of the league, a team that is measured against the worst teams in AFL/VFL history, a team that plays without spirit, confidence or self belief, a club battling to stay solvent with rapidly increasing debt, a club that is battling for its very survival. Neeld must be dismissed ASAP so as we can start to heal, so a new coach with a modern game plan that suits the strengths and weakness of our list, who can install self belief and confidence can be appointed. At this point just about any stand in coach that can motivate and create confidence would be a massive improvement. Failure to remove Neeld will result in the loss of a significant number of quality players come season end and this could be a nail in the coffin of our once great club. Changing coaches now may not save us but at least it gives us some hope, some chance of holding oour players, some chance of survival. I simply cannot understand those on hear who come out in support of Neeld....... it is too illogical for me....... I don't get it. Are these people actually watching what is going on both on and off the field? I am sure the board are aware of their fiduciary duties to the club and its members. I cannot see how they have any choice but to dismiss Neeld. I hope that this tread can die with the imminent dismissal of Neeld and that we can once again start to look forward rather than back on what has been an complete and absolute disaster, I again call on the board to uphold its fiduciary duty and dismiss Neeld. Not doing so could well be considered in a court as negligent.

Racism is not only about words but is also about power and how the words remove any feeling of worth. Posters who say that words meaning change, we are being overly sensitive and white people get called all sorts of names and its should be okay because its all fun and games/larrikinism don't seem to get this. As an Indigenous male I have lived all my life as a minority in my own country so I roll my eyes to the heavens whenever I hear a member of the dominant majority say I should stop being sensitive. I have lived with constant barrage of racism both open forms and subtle forms pretty much all my life. You become conditioned to ignore the subtle digs and jibes because I learnt long ago that fighting each one just makes you very angry person and the reality is, the issue is not one I have, but the uneducated views of the person perpetuating the racism. The last few days have been an interesting time for the sport and I think it has been a good to have discussion about this issue. It's a sad way to have to address this issue but often with racial vilification it's only going to be discussed when something negative happens. Some may think the media have blown the issue out to be more then it should but I would rather have peoples comments and opinions as it means there is robust discussions about it. The worst thing Australians can do is sweep it under the rug again issues like these need to be always discussed. What would be interesting is to see discussion occuring when there are no flare ups of racial vilification going on. The discussion has been a very interesting one and its been good to hear all your views on this except for yours DeeinWa having lived and worked in WA I am all to familiar with the attitudes of Rural WA towards the Nyoongar people comments like your mirror my own experiences in that part of the country. I wonder if you would have the audacity to call Buddy Franklin, Neville Jetta, Harly Bennell, Marley Williams, Louis Jetta, Jeff Farmer, Jamie Bennell, Ashley Mcgrath, Leon Davis, Chance Bateman and any of the other great Indigenous Footballers, who have come from Rural WA, an APE or monkey and then see if they think your funny. But I guess that's a bit harsh and I do apologise for that outburst as I certainly can understand that it must be hard living in rural WA as white male.

My experience ( going back a long time ago) is you need to start with very good Scotch or Cognac. The Very Good stuff is more like a liqueur. Poor quality tastes like kerosene. Not that I have drunk much kerosene!

I have always rated both Neeld and Craig as I have spoken to both of them on a number of occasions.One of the points both made last night was they were originally given a mandate by the Club (assume this was Board and CEO) and this mandate has not changed, and they are sticking to that mandate. Neeld stressed strongly ie he repeated he was told "culture, culture, culture" and this is what they are attempting to implement, neither are overjoyed where we are at the moment they both regard themselves because of the inexperience of the list as 'development coaches', a point Nathan Jones agreed with. My lovely lady has become increasingly frustrated watching the games and the players 'supposedly' giving up, so she made a point of asking Mark Neeld directly after the talk for his take on why this is happening, he made the point that no matter how the players are coached, if they go into their 'shell' in a game, he only has the breaks to try and rectify, and after the first quarter against Fremantle there wasn't much he could do, so he and Craig used half time to try and show the players that if they went back to the structures and game plan they had started the game with it would work and the players responded and we won the 3rd quarter....it is 'convincing' (his word not mine coz I can't remember exactly what he said) to stick fast with the structures He made a point of telling me he was disappointed with Mark Jamar against Fremantle and he had told him so, he expected a guy of his experience to lead the team from the funk they get in and not just get 1 possession in a game against two young ruckmen. He also made a point that if the ladder was based on pure football 'talent' it would be GWS 1st and Gold Coast 2nd, but because of GWS' inexperience it isn't, and we are the second most inexperienced so this is what you get

Cognac. Might as well go out in style.