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Hi everyone, I hope you all had a good Christmas and I wish you all a happy and prosperous New Year. I flew down from FNQ and attended training today. It was a beautiful day in Melbourne and the training was intense and very productive. AFL Induction New recruits, Mark Neeld. Rehab group (Indoors on bikes) - Clark, Trengove and Magner Rehab group (outdoors running drills) Gawn, Garland, Watts, Taggert, Dunn and Dawes Main Group Everyone else I spoke at length with everyone in the rehab group and they gave me some insight to what was happening with the players. AFL Induction the new recruits were at AFL Induction with Mark Neeld and did train at 0600 to-day. They told me the new recruits are fitting in very well and training very hard. Rehab group (Indoors on bikes) (Clark), his foot is progressing better than expected however they are sticking to the program as advised by the doctors and physio. He did make an appearance on the ground near the end of training and he looked very happy and was kicking the ball beautifully. (Trengove), Is still on crutches and not putting pressure on his foot. He did not come out the whole session. (Magner), was going very hard on the bike, he was on the bike because he pulled up a little sore after Darwin and Christmas. Rehab group (outdoors running drills) (Gawn), he said he was feeling 100% and it is now a decision for the physio team to get him back in the main group. He is looking forward to the intra-club match, (Garland), precautionary as he has the flu, (Watts & Taggert), both joined the rehab group after the first training drill. They both pulled up with a slight calf strain after Darwin, however both feeling 100% now and will resume full training after their scans to-day. (Dunn & Dawes), both joined the rehab group after warm ups and the first training drill. Both pulled up sore after Darwin. Dawes has trimmed down big time and moves very nicely to the ball. Main Group The session started with warm-ups; (stretching, run throughs, kick to kick). They then broke of into random groups and did some triangular kicking drill. Three (stationary) players kicking to each other and three other (mobile) players applying pressured to the three kickers. It was good for fitness and kicking under pressure. Standouts Davey and Watts (Sublime kicking), Nicholson (Missing targets on a number of occasions) They then moved into groups and conducted individual skills with each of their coaches. Backs Split into two groups and conducted clearing drills by foot and punching the ball away from the pack. Standouts T McDonald kicking was outstanding. Mids Split into two groups and conducted centre bounce clearance drills. Standouts Grimes, Rodan. All activities are strictly timed by DM and his support staff. After hydration they then moved into a sprint session conducted by DM. Four groups, two groups running at one time and the other two groups resting. The drill consisted of full length sprints of the oval and back around the boundary back to the same goal square. This consisted of about 8 sprints each. Very Intense. They then split into Fwds, Mids and Backs for more of the same sprints. Fwds Pederson, Blease, Howe, Davey, Byrnes, & Bail. Mids Grimes, Jamar, Rodan, Spencer, McKenzie, Evans (Very quick), Couch, & Sylvia. Backs Strauss, Seller, Frawley, Nicolson, MacDonald, McDonald, Jetta, Gillies, Davis & Nicholson Training then finished after these last sprint drills. The whole session was split into short team drills, individual skills and fitness training. Most noticeable The amount of talk and positive feedback to each other was fantastic. Not one negative word was said. There was some funny one liners at the end of training directed at Howe about a trip to the G to watch the cricket. It was very funny and very relaxed. Dawes and Dunn had a kick off at goal from 50m on the boundary and all I can say is I am glad Dunn has found his position in the back line and we recruited someone that can kick goals Nice to watch Dawes kick at goal, he had no problem kicking from 50 with the ball soaring over the goal posts and he was very accurate. The boys then went inside for stretching, massage, lunch (Recovery session) and then off to AAMI for a weights session. FNQ Demon

The following is an opposition supporters view that I thought was worth sharing. I reckon that in the main it's an excellent post. "Any Barrister worth his salt should be able to get up in court and demonstrate that tanking is not only rife in the AFL but is an accepted and condoned practice by all clubs and the AFL governing body. The NAB pre-season cup is an officially sanctioned AFL competition. Therefore, every club (ie all) that has ever rested a senior player even though fit to play, and played some inexperienced rookie in his place in a NAB cup game, has not played that game to the best capability of the club - ie has tanked. Melbourne, and certainly other clubs before it, has merely manipulated the rules set by the AFL to gain some longer term gain. If the AFL doesn't like it, it has the power to change the rules to dissuade this. In the case of draft tampering, all it has to do is do away with the reverse-ladder draft priorities and introduce a draft lottery for the teams finishing out of the final eight. I can't see some team deliberately trying to finish ninth instead of eighth (and missing out on playing finals) in order to maybe get a slightly higher draft pick. The AFL has made this situation with a set of conflicting and confusing rules. It is in its power to clear up the mess without resorting to the cowardly bullying of a select few club employees instead of even having the guts to take on the responsible club."

This canting and recanting , then re-recanting proves that Mclean is just a cant.

We have dispensed with most (if not all) of those who didn't 'buy in' to the Neeld way, as well as some who were either past their UBD, or were unlikely to ever cut it at the top level. We seem to have gained some forward structure, some mid-field (and other) depth, and (hopefully) a smattering of class. Most importantly, we seem to have added significantly to our stocks of: leadership and experience; and team players who will not die wondering. We are currently in the process of ramping up fitness levels to something much closer to the required level. It bodes well, and I'm chomping at the bit for Sunday, 31 March. I'm sick of eating sh!t sandwiches week- in, week-out ........ salad will make a very pleasant change.

You've pushed me over the edge. Next paycheck, i'm buying a membership!

The board has a please explain? That's what Fan got from today's news?! The whole club, and a nervous former coach, is being hunted. Some on here need to get over the individuals they usually see through this lens: There will be no escape for the club unless the individuals escape with us. You want to see the end of these individuals at the club? Pick another time because I think we are headed to war and the generals will be Schwab, Connolly, McLardy and the board in general. Their mission is to lead us through this unscathed. And, yes, it will mean they are unscathed too. GET. OVER. IT.

They're on holidays. It's as simple as that.

I disagree with this how many quality tall key defenders are there in the league compared with quality key forwards?

I'm seriously considering buying an armchair membership for this year. I really love this club, and want to support them in some way. Plus i'd get a big discount for the online store, which is another real perk.

I am not aligned to anyone. In fact, I do not actually know another person who posts on this site. I just get sick of reading the personal attacks. They are basic in the extreme. And boring.

you ommitted to mention Collingwood and Freo in 1999 when it all started!

Try buy a pack of smokes. Freaky .

Nev Jetta will do the family proud. Cale Morton will not.

In Vino Veritas. You'll notice us demons put the sanguine drop ahead of the fodder.

it would be hard to stop at one. They are so healthy!

Tom McDonald is more suited to be a damaging player as a defender that quickly turns defence into attack. He has already showcased this creative ability, and with better kicking skills he will hurt his opponents and have them worrying about his influence. He can only do this from behind the ball.

I refuse to believe that this is all the AFL have... I know they can't have much, but really... that's just embarrassing!

Just reported on Ch 7 news......Melb has been asked to explain Melb vs Rich......Why so few interchange moves Melb Vs St Kilda.......Why Frawley was moved off Roo and Dunn put on him when Frawley was on top....Why was Jurrah taken from the ground after kicking 3 goals and not come on again....There were a couple of others but I've forgotten....Old age I suppose I guess it will come to a stage where the coach must get AFL approval to make any moves that are not considered "normal" then the media will have to approve the moves as well or all teams will be investigated......What a world...What a world.

Well I do like a banana daiquiri and must try the 'Hummingbird' at some stage . The 'fritter' can't be good for the ticker so a big no on that one Here's a few more deeelectible beverage's .... just right for the summer .... or a cruise .... Banana drinks

Today was our last day in Adelaide and Redleg and I were determined to track down the man who held the key to the tanking conundrum, Dean Bailey. However, we weren't going to make the same mistake as yesterday so we looked up the telephone number for the Crows and dialled ... "Welcome to the Adelaide Football Club. Home of the Camry Crows. If you are enquiring about club membership packages, press one ... if you wish to make a purchase from our range of club merchandise, press two ... if you want to contribute to our special Kurt Tippett clawback fund to help us pay the AFL's disgraceful salary cap breach fine (all donations are tax deductible), press three." We finally reached a number that allowed us to speak with a human being and I asked the young lady at the other end to put me through to Stephen Trigg. There was hesitation before the voice responded, "Mr. Trigg isn't working here at the present time ... " "But it says here in the AFL Guide 2012 that he's the CEO; we need to speak with him urgently about one of your coaches ... " "Oh, that's OK sir, they should all be in their offices this morning. To which of our coaches do you wish to speak?" I gave her the name and thought I could hear her rifling through a long list of numbers before she finally got back to me. "Mr. Bailey. That would be extension one, eight, six ... I'll put you through now ... A familiar voice responded but it wasn't that of the former Demon coach. "Clarrie, is that you? We're the two blokes you met at Alberton yesterday. What are you doing at Crows HQ? "Ah, on Tuesdays, I'm working at the Adelaide Football Club. Mr. Bailey's not here but perhaps there's something I can do to help you?" "Clarrie, there is. You can empty the contents of every bin in his office and hold it for us. Don't throw anything away. We'll meet you at the club in 15 minutes ..." We spent the better part of another hot Adelaide day sifting through the contents of Dean Bailey's garbage but alas, we found nothing. Not a single scrap of evidence to suggest that Bailey was planning to impart any of the tactics and strategies he used with the Demons in 2009 on the Crows in 2013. We did find the remnants of two folders containing 800 pages of fol de rol over which someone had scribbled child-like cartoon characters resembling Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck but there was nothing of substance in either volume and given where their custodian had dumped them, he thought so as well. The closest we came to finding anything suspicious was a banana peel but we quickly dismissed that as a red herring. So for the second day running, we had come up against a dead end. Our investigation was going nowhere ...

I would have thought if anything, it might relate to any disciplinary action they might be taking against the Boxing Day Test transgressors.

I think the commuting to and from London during the BBL has taken it's toll and fried his brain (not that it required that much..). Found speeding in excess of 160km/h, fined for swearing, suspended for his petulant and appalling behaviour. Perhaps he has felt the rigours of weekly botox injections? I'm no expert.... Stick with Liz, Warnie. You're looking more and more like your wax work at Maddam Tussauds in London each day.

Have another look at the Kruezer Cup game and then read Wallace talking about securing Cotchin. It's all there. As for the Eagles. Have a listen to the Lynard Skynard track "The Needle & The Spoon" I am not exonerating the MFC at all, but i will always believe these other 3 clubs were far better tankers than us. Imagine if Wilson had written about Wallace's admissions in that first article? Richmond would be completely screwed. The Coach HAS admitted it.

In fact this is a direct admission of guilt to precisely the charges purported to be levelled against Bailey. Draft tampering & not coaching to the best of your ability.And this commission expects to be taken seriously. They are becoming more of a joke with every day that passes.

Don't forget to stop using terms like "Carltank" and " Meth Coast" when you do.

This is not a good analogy at all. ...it's more like the banks lending money to all and sundry when credit policy is relaxed and then complaining about being unable to recover funds when things get tight and they change their rules. Our club and many others have taken advantage of the AFL's relaxed credit policy and now the AFL with a dose of hindsight after being forced to take their heads out of their........ don't like the results.

I hope the lawyers who have to learn their briefs "verbatum" are across all the detales.

This ridiculous charge of 'not coaching to one's utmost' laid against Bailey is a load of crap. If Bailey did anything in 2009, he coached to his utmost. He knew that the best thing for the club in that year was to make us more competitive in the long run, so he played kids and developed strategies and tactics that he believed would be the best thing to make us better from 2010 onwards. Bailey's goal was to make the MFC a stronger club. That, with no doubt, is coaching to one's utmost. The AFL should be embarrassed to have even come up with such a ridiculous charge.

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall Neitz started up forward, didn't achieve much and was moved into the backline... he was then moved forward again out of necessity when we were lacking a strong forward line-up.

You're missing the point. The barristers will argue much of their case around the definition of tanking. They'll be able to give examples of tanking that are considered to be acceptable within the guidelines. They'll be able to correctly ask where does tanking start and stop ? What constitutes list management ? They'll easily be able to blur the lines. They won't say, "yes Melbourne tanked". They'll asking "what is tanking ?". And "how did Melbourne contravene any rules when players were never asked to perform beneath their capabilities ?".

If we lost in a court of law I'll eat my hat

At this point, it's been decided to temporarily close this thread because there's a fair amount of duplication with the AFL investigation thread. We'll reopen it when we feel it's appropriate - perhaps when Ms. Wilson next rears her head. Could posters also please familiarise themselves with the Demonland code of conduct. There's no need for abuse of other posters. Critical responses are fine but outright abuse and bullying are not accepted. Please try avoiding the derailing of threads and try not to post too often or go on tangents in threads. There's too much of that going on and warnings will be issued and if that doesn't work, we'll reluctantly adopt AFL tactics and apply bans. Thank you.

How inaccurate is the last paragraph of the article? McLean was never asked if Melbourne tanked? In fact he specifically denied it was called tanking but rather he used the word "experimentation" which was the same word Andrew Demetriou used in a Wilson article in 2009 about the Jordan McMahon game and which was considered by the AFL to be an acceptable practice. Pierik is a Wilson lackey doing her job whilst she's away.

I don't doubt we 'list-managed' and were happy to lose that match. But you just pop me in a box and blast away as usual and didn't respond to the point I was making other than putting me down as someone whose opinion are of low or no value. I was making the point that is was not sufficient for you to say Richmond played like 'sh!t' to explain how we almost won that game. I suggested serious tanking would have got us 'under the line' that day. I asked 'Did I miss something', ie where is the evidence of dramatic moves to lose in the last few minutes. Ie. maybe I was wrong. I don't recall you covering that in any of your previous posts. Please 'waste some more of your time' and point us to those posts if they exist.

800 pages, to me, says that they have submitted all and sundry as evidence because they are clutching at straws. Surely if they had something substantial, something clearly incriminating, there wouldn't be any need for such fluff? Instead we've been handed an encyclopaedia of fluff that could be perceived as tanking, if you choose to see it that way. And the end of that article is terribly lazy on behalf of someone, be it Pierik or a sub-ed. Just embarrassing for them.

I'm not so sure it is a lot of print. Roughly 6 pages of transcripts of interviews etc per day would produce that much. A civil case in the Supreme Court can easily have 800 pages of documents disclosed before things get started - and neither side keen to actually go the distance in a trial. What does it suggest, that the AFL has put the matter to the MFC in this way, I wonder? If there was straightforward evidence of an actual transgression, you would presume that the matter could be stated in a lot less than 800 pages. There presumably has to be a huge amount of dross in the 800 pages, and I expect MFC's lawyers will be repeating a few points over and over in their responses to much of it. Perhaps there is learned argument about the laws of the game - which argument would prompt the obvious counter-attacks, I imagine, about precedents and public statements from Vlad that provided interpretations of the rules, intention and effect of the laws and the obvious inducement written into the rules, plus comment on the legitimacy of the AFL's investigating procedures, etc. All the things that have been canvassed in posts on this site will come into play and do their thing now that the AFL has committed itself to paper. WYL, in the space of 12 minutes this morning you went from posting "From that i get the feeling our lawyers are pretty confident thus far" to "Our legal boys will need to know it all verbatum". I think you have let the loud-sounding process get at you a bit. Relax... I find it interesting that the MFC has apparently not felt any need to connect with public sympathy for their victimisation in all this. Since they have been shown the AFL's hand, there have been opportunities to pick up on public comment about the process and feed the growing public disenchantment with the AFL's behaviour, but we remain entirely poker-faced. Very encouraging, I think. And, I still think that bringing the game into disrepute falls over if the tanking charge cannot be proven. Nobody publicly [censored] on Vlad's statue.

The last passage is flat wrong and has been revealed as such since Wilson brought it up. There was no 'secret meeting' nor was it code named, and the threat from CC is hardly substantiated. If this isn't a lazy subeditor adding some 'context' then Haddad has nothing.

Because I couldn't call you stupid if I was. You'd be pretty stupid not to understand that.

Of course we then realised that Bailey's at the Crows so we might venture out there tomorrow.

It's quite possible we could but we certainly didn't in the previous years before Jim came on board; some of the previous Presidents and CEO's were just incompetent or didn't really have their heart in it. If you can suggest someone that's better than either of the incumbents then let's hear it? I'm on record as saying that I think Cam's a bit slick, but he seems to be doing the job, the club's turning a profit and the balance sheet is improving. As you know it's a different thing, running a Footy Club, as opposed to a normal business, and you need to have specific skills to do the job properly; as someone once said you give a football club $10m and they'll spend $11m. McLardy was there by default and seems to be growing in to the job, he may prove to be an excellent President or may fall by the wayside but at the moment he's handling a difficult job with little fuss and his telling moment will come when he responds to the allegations made against us. There are those that are [censored] because the current board seem to have grabbed the limelight and have taken the credit for initiatives commenced by the previous boards but that always happens in this type of situation; how many Liberal projects did the incoming Labor Government open and take credit for and vice versa? I have no doubt that there have been toes trod on and egos bruised but at the end of the day it's the club that we all care about and petty arguments between parties about who did this and who did that are irrelevant to the vast majority of the members. We all want the club to be successful, you're no orphan there, it's just your posting in the Wilson thread was at least inflammatory and at worst baiting and vindictive. I'm sure you're better than that and it was a lapse.

I went down there today, got there about 9.50, so a little late. Bear in mind this was the first time I've attended training, so I have nothing to compare on. I'll just jot some points down of things I noticed: Tapscott looks as fit as I've seen him, and has good disposal. Tom McDonald's disposal looked good in a few backline drills that were run, in which there was a significant emphasis on hitting targets (good to see as this area hurts us). At one point he asked Neil Craig whether what he'd just done was better, and Craigy relayed a couple of tips, mainly to make sure he's hitting targets between their eyes, rather than at their feet. I was pleasantly surprised with Josh Tynan's kicking disposal, which I thought was scratchy, however it looked very good in a couple of drills. He looks fit and a great size too. Although Grimes has had some niggles, he looks in great nick. Dunn and Watts (both in some sort of rehab group, although no apparent injuries were noticeable as the drills they were completing still required full body movement) were constantly yelling encouragement to the boys in the main group. It was impressive as they had their own drills to complete. Watts has great disposal, let's hope his competitiveness is getting better as he matures. Blease and Davey were putting in with the running drills. I don't expect these boys to eventually be better than the others at the endurance stuff as I would hope the others are also improving. Blease and Davey are not physically gifted at the endurance stuff, and are unlikely to become better at it than James Magner for instance who in turn is unlikely to become faster at the short stuff than these two. I only expect them to work hard to improve their own PB's. I could not fault their attitude on today. Troy Davis lacks confidence with his kicking. Evans looked pretty fit as well. Does anybody know if they are training at Gosch's paddock on Wednesday? I live close and wouldn't mind having a look.

Hi All, I went down to have a look today, and as we should expect, they were all in pretty good condition. Pretty light session on the whole, they split into FWD's, Mid's/Rucks and Back's. Taggert and J Watts trained away from the group, focussing on playing on after a marking situation. No newbies at all, they were in the Induction. No Mark Neeld either. T-Mac and Nicholson lead the running as always, Gawn was running 800's (recovering from hamstring issues), and Big Mitch was on the bike the whole time. Positives: Lynden Dunn, Col Sylvia, Nathan Jones and Luke Tapscott look in really good nick. Negatives: Chris Dawes was 2-grabbing everything (not competitive either), seems like he is still having wrist/thumb issues. Knee heavily strapped and he has slimmed down, looks too light. Backline kicking drill, Troy Davis could not hit the side of a barn.

No, of course not...just adding some bs to this ridiculous topic that's citing CM a champion and WC as premiers.

Some players are far better behind the ball and I suspect that McDonald is one of those. Reacting and negating is far easier than creating. I hope McDonald stays as a backman and is a pillar of defence for a decade. Besides, with Clark and Hogan up front, along with Dawes and Pedersen, he's of far more value down back.

AFL commissioners, investigators and senior management held a meeting in what has been code-named 'the panic room'. Vlad heard to say that 'if this goes to court, more heads to roll'. Awaiting more reports.

Cale had ample opportunities under Neeld. Listen to the interview he gave early last season to Matt Burgan. Cale was pumped. The only person who shot Cales confidence was himself.

I agree with your point . As an example - Pie fans play victim and suffer from persecution complex's but it's their own fault - they bring it on themselves with their own unrealistic expectations . We, on the other hand, have been blindsided and attacked for what ? We've already yapped about the 'What' so I won't go down that track again . It could be an easy thing to have a 'Guilt trip' about the events of 2009 but did any of us feel guilty back then ? Many people's attitude back then was "Everyone else has done this so why not us?" . The 'Done this' bit is also open to interpretation . 'Vague' is not a strong enough word to describe all this If we threw games then where are the betting plunges ? Why haven't the bookies come forward ? Not even a $5 Heath Shaw type bet - nothing . The AFL 'Rubber stamped' our behavior at the time - fact . Unless there is a 'Smoking gun' then all they have is the same circumstantial stuff they had back in 2009 . Oh , and a couple of 'gags' from Connolly and some idiotic utterances from an ex-player .

I just happen to think its just as relevant and important to win the off field battles as well. it goes to the whole. Just ask Eddie !!

bleating & screaming?No shallow one i am looking at this issue objectively. The larger picture of what todays AFL really wants. You may want the club to fight like there is no tomorrow, but ultimately you will roll over when the price is to your liking. I would not count on you in the trenches when the heat ramps up. Your knack of being rude at the end of each post is quite humorous. Get of ya soap box Ben. Your poo smells just the same as mine.

I suppose this is where the teach them to be nice to girls, avoid racist slurs and keep away from drugs i wonder if they will teach them not to make inflammatory comments about other clubs or players unless they have the proof to back it up (a'la Mr UnClean)?