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Losing picks 18 and 36 wouldn't be so bad.

• After the Jordan McMahon game in July, 2009 Wilson appeared on Footy Calcified and was particularly aggressive towards Dean Bailey and the Melbourne Football Club over what transpired during the game which Richmond won after McMahon's 50 metre kick after the siren. It must have irked her to write this piece on 5 August, 2009: AFL boss backs Dees after loss • Remember that final round game of 2009 against St. Kilda that Melbourne was supposed to have tanked? The odds for that game were: Melbourne to win $11.00 St. Kilda to win $1.02 And some people are surprised that Melbourne failed to win the game?

I really don't like the bit about the investigators reinterviewing witnesses that have different views to the ones they want to hear. There is clealry coercion going on and to be honest it is quite unsavoury. Carlton were rung up and asked did you tank, they said no and case closed. Ours however has become a witch hunt. It really is unsavoury. Now that the man in charge has said he didn't tank and didn't ask others to tank, that is the end. CC could have said anything he liked. The Coach has said he didn't do it and therefore the rule has not been breached and the AFL if it had any decency left should end this now. Melbourne should start calculating the damage it has suffered because of this investigation.

A more simple explanation could be that he's telling the truth.

I can't believe the positive response Dean Bailey's recent revelations have received on Demonland. Cleary he failed to follow the directives of the Board. It's pleasing to see the interest the Dodges Ferry Gazette now has in all things related to the Dees since Jeremy Howe's move to the big time. Their article yesterday takes a refreshing look at the tanking debate and also reveals that the club has been more active than we have been lead to believe: The Melbourne Demons have announced that they’ve launched their own internal investigations. The recent avalanche of media analysis centred on the 2009 season has prompted the club itself to re-visit tape of the second half of the season and they've discovered more evidence of strange moves coming from former coach Dean Bailey. After Port Adelaide defeated Melbourne by ten goals in round 3 of the season with Danyle Pearce one of the best on the ground with 28 disposals and a goal, the Dees coach incredibly decided to tag Pearce in the round 15 re-match keeping him to just 18 ineffective possessions in a turn-around 11 point victory. The win meant Melbourne moved to within just eight premiership points of eliminating their priority pick claims. With Carolyn Wilson's impeccably sourced and uncontested public claims that Melbourne management had directed Dean Bailey to lose football games, it is difficult to fathom why the coach would tag one of the opposition's most dangerous players and in the process place the much hyped priority pick in jeopardy. Melbourne investigators have also voiced internal concern regarding the accuracy of the team during their 20 - 7 - 127 to 9 - 10 - 64 demolition job of Fremantle in round 20. The final nail in Dean Bailey’s coffin appears to be the near 100% playing time given to game high goal kicker Russell Robertson in Melbourne’s round 14 victory over the West Coast Eagles. Robertson had kicked 4 wonderful goals and Bailey was seen to shift uncomfortably in his chair before refusing to reach for the phone to pull Robertson from the field. Melbourne officials are confident that these new revelations will provide their legal team with all the necessary evidence to ensure much of the payout given to Bailey upon his axing is returned. The club has received advice that confirms Bailey’s clear lack of adherence to the directives of the board breaks an important clause in his contract and it is expected Bailey’s payout refund will be welcomed by the current football department as they move quickly to bolster their ‘war chest’ with a big money move for recently delisted Bomber Kyle Reimers now expected.

I wouldn't be spending time and money on a defamation action against Wilson. Our major focus after this "tanking" issue plays itself out should be the team we put on the field and getting it to a point where it can compete with the better clubs and aim to play finals football again as soon as possible. Suing Wilson would be a distraction our club doesn't need.

It's kind of funny how to start with there was this top secret meeting called The Vault that was the result of months of planning, where Connolly told everyone they faced the sack if they didn't throw matches, and as the actual facts come to light, it was a regulation footy meeting in a building nicknamed The Vault, where Connolly made a wise crack in a 30 second aside. I wish I got paid to make up crap and have it published like Wilson and co.

I wrote this elsewhere but it's equally appropriate here. The entire investigation appears to be unravelling day by day with these revelations of Gestapo tactics used to frighten witnesses into changing their stories. My experience is that its rare for everyone who attended a meeting 3½ years ago to have identical impressions and versions of what went on at those meetings. I wonder if the UN interrogator hasn't considered the possibilty that the ones who provided the "vault" scenario of threats about their jobs are the wrong accounts embellished perhaps because they are being told by disgruntled ex employees who have it in for the club? The original "vault" stories spoke of the so-called dismissal threats as the major focus of the meeting. Now we learn that it was just an aside, a small part of a larger meeting making it even more plausible that it was all a part of Connolly being facetious - that's the man's sense of humour. In any event, after reading this latest story I'm convinced that no witness should go into a meeting with an interrogator who conducts investigations using these tactics without a lawyer in tow. Notwithstanding that, the interrogation is probably tainted already and these revelations and the leaks emanating apparently from the AFL have made the entire investigation problematic.

Well if there was systematic cheating, or "the fix" as Caroline Wilson has sensationally called i. thent I am sure Bailey would have been offered some sort of immuniuity if he implicated people above him into pressuring him to do so. FACTS Prob Are: That CC spoke glowingly about the prospect of 2 quality picks during the season. Who among us didnt? We had nothing else to look forward to. We wre all trying to scrape something positive from a black hole. Bailey played players in all sorts of experimental position, imitating the higlyh rotating flexible Geelong team type structure he was trying to foster. The players were never told not to try. NEVER. Almost all evidence seems to have come from those with an axe to grind. Media have become so unbalanced it is just sad. Dwayne Russell the worst. All of em. Simple: WE DIDN'T TANK WE WERE JUST HOPELESS!!! TRUST ME, I WAS THERE!

Almost every Melbourne supporter I saw after Round 18 cheered when Jordan McMahon's goal went through - and walked away happy. No supporter who applauded that day can reasonably turn around now and criticise the club for achieving the result they ( the supporters) wanted the club to achieve. Let's not be like those Carlton supporters who - after cheering when Fev was dragged in the Kreuzer Cup - and mocking us after the game for losing - are now saying that "tanking" is disgusting It is the hypocrisy that is the disgusting thing about this beat-up

The only thing recently that has been black and white in all of this, is the crap in the newspapers and the denials from Bailey and Junior. The Richmond bloke kicked one out of his clacker from 50 metres in time on. FMD and yet we have been largely savaged in isolation by the media for how long now? Tell me our brand and supporter base hasn't been hammered by this rubbery,destructive,discrimintory and myopic pursuit.

Vince Sorrenti must have been hosting

I'm with you Normie. When you consider the setbacks this kid has endured it's a credit to his perseverance and character. He is one player that I would really like to see succeed .

Will allow us to develop a culture where winning is everything and losing bares no reward. I'd almost welcome a loss of picks.

I don't think anything is being leaked by the AFL at all. They'd be happy for this to go away, so they don't need to get into a messy public to and fro with MFC over sanctions. There'd be no need to protect the AFL's image. And they would not want to penalise MFC, especially when they secretly know how unfair it would be to single out one club. Caroline Wilson's info is mainly coming from interviewees. Passing on what they know, and what they have been asked that indicates what others have said (or may not have, but the investigators are fishing). The media is driving this, not the AFL.

On the basis of the evidence I have seen to date, I would like Caroline Wilson stood down by The Age. There's more than a whiff of British tabloid style 'evidence gathering' and reporting to the way in which she has approached/written about this issue in recent weeks. It's been absolutely devoid of sophistication and balance, and the fact that, plainly, she cannot write makes it even more infuriating to deal with. Where are the standards Fairfax?! Your football editor seems to have lost his/her red pen.

Thanks Dean. You were just doing your job. The players welfare is important to you. Now Wilson go and investigate Wallace & Cotchin please... Do ya job and not make it personal.

Nothing to see here people. Move right along!

Touche. Disagree; if the board thinks/knows it is highly winnable, I say go for it. In the hands of lawyers, no distraction for the club. The Age will settle; more $s for club. I say: "don't get angry, get even". We as a club have had sand kicked in our face for far too long. Map out a plan, then slowly, determinedly put it into place and make them pay; leave the press out of it, just go after them quietly, methodically and ruthlessly. Time to be ruthless, but fair, on and off the ground.

It's a good and relevant thread. I had this exact conversation with my Brother as we watched training on Monday. His view was that we'd be stuffed, but to the contrary I thought we'd be fine. Of course it would be far from ideal, but I reckon our list is in better shape than many. We've turned over a third of our list, but the core is good and some of the improvements will hold us in good stead. Forwards - Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Pedersen is a very sound core of talls. Add rotations with Howe, Sylvia, Tynan and the basis is set up for 5 years at least. We'll add young crumbers. Defence - Frawley, McDonald, Watts, and Garland is also a solid group of plus 190cm defenders. Add Davis (who I like although I know many don't), Nicholson, Dunn and Strauss and I also reckon it's young with quality. Rucks - Jamar, Gawn, Spencer with help from Clark and it's OK. Much depends on Gawn and I we need to look to add to it, but it's sound. Mids - Jones, Grimes, Trengove, Blease, Viney, Pick 4, McKenzie, Bail, Evans, Taggert, Barry, plus rotations with Howe and Sylvia. It's no secret that we need to develop 4-5 'A' grade mids in a hurry. We're desperate for Trengove to become the player we thought he would, Blease to build his engine and provide some outside run, Viney and pick 4 to be quality, Grimes to continue his midfield journey and to unearth an unexpected top-liner, which may be a Taggert or Evans, etc. As we've discussed ad nauseum our midfield is the issue, but theoretically it should be the easiest part of the ground to improve. A couple of genuine gun mids make it easier for those around them to step up. Obviously not all of the players I've mentioned will make it, but I'm convinced the core will be solid and we have a sound group of "interchangeables". A lot of clubs would be very envious of our quality key position players all over the ground. I too want to point out that I'm becoming increasingly confident that we'll keep our picks, as the evidence against us seems flimsy and more so a groundswell of group think that's taken off in the football industry, but if we can delay any possible sanction past this draft then I'll be quietly confident in our ability to weather the storm. Finally, we're a completely different proposition to Carlton when they were sanctioned. At the end of 2002 when they were penalised their list was old. They had a few premiership players left from 1995, but they'd had it and there was a heap of crud. We're in a far better position. There's really no correlation. If you're not convinced have a look at their list at the end of 2002: http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?SeasonID=2002&TeamID=14

I don't think it would be as big a hit as if it happened when there was no Free Agency. A club can pick up very good ready made players without needing to trade, or develop players for years hoping they'll come good. That said i don't think we'll be punished at all.

Got to hand it to Dean Bailey . Loose lips sink ships. At least he left the club with a modicum of decency and has kept it intact . Old Deano-He's a fkn marine.

It would be a massive hit. Don't kid yourself. It's what the other clubs gain whilst we get nothing.

And yet we still won three more games in the second half than the first.

That's a sign of guilt when we're in fact declaring complete innocence. How about we wait until the AFL make their finding ?

Thus endeth the witch hunt. No player is going to intentionally throw a game, so that leaves bailey with the power to do so. That should be the end of it, though I expect Caro to rise from her death bed at some point to try to land the fatal bullet into the MFC

We're on to you Caroline.

Wow...what a load of drivel, give it a rest, smoke a joint or something!

There was a left footer there that I didn't recognise, so it looks like we've invited one person down to train - and no it wasn't Brynes who ran a few laps. Blease ran with Bail in the 150m sprints and was only getting dropped in the last few and even then by only 1.5 metres. He has already significantly improved his engine from last preseason.

THE TIMING OF THE SHREW by Whispering Jack "No shame but mine. I must, forsooth, be forced To give my hand, opposed against my heart Unto a mad-brain rudesby, full of spleen Who wooed in haste and means to wed at leisure" William Shakespeare The Taming of the Shrew Imagine if the Age newspaper published an opinion piece tomorrow on Adrian Bayley, accused killer of Jill Meagher, in which the author pronounced him guilty beyond any doubt of murder even though the trial is months away? What if it was suggested that the appropriate punishment for such a heinous crime was nothing less than life in prison to be served in solitary confinement for the next ten years? There are those who care little for the rights of the accused in such circumstances but in reality, it is the respect for those rights that is the very cornerstone of our democratic society. Without the rule of law, our society sinks into the realm of the uncivilised. Three years ago, the Council of the International Bar Association passed a resolution endorsing this definition of the rule of law: "An independent, impartial judiciary; the presumption of innocence; the right to a fair and public trial without undue delay; a rational and proportionate approach to punishment; a strong and independent legal profession; strict protection of confidential communications between lawyer and client; equality of all before the law; these are all fundamental principles of the Rule of Law." What this means is that in the context of the AFL's current investigation into the Melbourne Football Club's activities in the same year as the passing of the above resolution, there is no place for sensationalist opinion pieces such as that written by Caroline Wilson and published yesterday in the Age. Wilson may well know more than she's letting on but playing judge, jury and executioner based on the evidence presented by her this week is not helpful to her reputation as a journalist or to her readers' understanding of the matter. What she has done is to treat her readers to rumour, innuendo, supposition, double meaning, lack of context, smoke and mirrors and general palaver that may or may not stand scrutiny in a court of law. Most of it fails to address the basic fact that for a decade before 1999, the AFL and its leadership set a certain standard as to what defines "tanking", the loose word that's supposed to describe the offence being investigated. During that period, there was an almost annual outcry about one team or another deliberately trying to lose games to achieve a better outcome in the draft and the AFL condoned the practice as long as it didn't involve a direct order to the players to lose matches. After the infamous Kreuzer Cup in round 22, 2007 an employee of the "losing" team, Carlton spoke about his concern about how that game was played. The AFL's investigation lasted about 15 minutes after which the world was told there was nothing to see here; move along. The message was loud and clear. Once your season is over in terms of your capacity to make the finals, you can send players off for surgery, play them out of position, interchange them when they're firing and, if you're permitted to do that, then surely you're also allowed to meet and discuss such things among yourselves, joke about them and even brag to your sponsors that things are going to get better next year because you managed to pick up a priority pick? I was never comfortable with this but, as Patrick Smith pointed out in the Australian yesterday, the AFL's position has always been based on Andrew Demetriou's narrow definition of tanking. "Demetriou's understanding allows for only direct action taken on the field of play - instructing a player to deliberately kick a point when a goal would have won the match - as tanking. According to Demetriou, putting inferior players on the field, resting elite ones, playing others in unsuitable positions, taking influential players off the ground are all examples of list management and experimentation. They do not define tanking." So what is Wilson telling us when she describes Melbourne's conduct in 2009 as shocking and awful? That it was worse than those other clubs including West Coast, Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Hawthorn, the Western Bulldogs, St. Kilda and Fremantle that have lost sufficient games to qualify for priority picks but have (to date at least) not been investigated by the AFL? That the investigators have already found the club guilty even though it has yet been charged, has not seen the evidence against it or had the opportunity to put forward the case in its defence? I look at that definition of the rule of law above and I can only conclude that the Age and Wilson have trampled all over Melbourne's rights in the past week. If the AFL has been involved at all in supplying her with information/conclusions then they've created a fine mess for themselves and are about to help a lot of lawyers to educate their children at expensive private schools. Not only that, but Wilson has been disingenuous in the way in which she's gone about her business and in the timing of her articles. Her stories this week remind me of this famous scene from the Pink Panther - Inspector Clouseau was led by the concierge to believe that the dog on the floor in front on him didn't bite but he omitted an important fact - that it wasn't the concierge's dog. Who knows what manner of tanking Wilson's been writing about this week but is it the sort that would enable the AFL to apply sanctions against Melbourne without opening a Pandora's can of worms involving half the other clubs in the competition? Finally, what is it about Wilson and Demon CEO Cameron Schwab? Apart from a reference to him appearing "grim-faced" after Melbourne's third win of the season when the club was still two wins away from losing a priority pick (perhaps the chicken vindaloo at the president's lunch was off that day?), I don't quite see what he's done to deserve the gallows. Strangely enough, I've yet to find a Wilson article involving Schwab in which she has anything nice to say about him. It's almost as if there's a deep-seated rift between the Wilsons and the Schwabs going back centuries all the way to Shakespearean times, one that evokes visions of a shrewish Liz Taylor, mouth frothing and begging to be tamed. Taylor, of course, was acting.

It wont break us (as others said don't see it happening) if it's only for one draft that being 2013. Despite what the hand ringers say in Hogan we already have a first round pick so if they take our first two picks in next years draft we wont be as bad off as we would had we not taken Hogan. Carlton were crippled for a few years because they were banned from two drafts but also had a very aging list while we are in the opposite position. So IMO if we lose our first two picks in next years draft not by being scapegoated but with a smoking gun appearing, we just take our whack and move on. We are just starting to build our new culture and will be stronger in another twelve months. We must however maintain pick 4 this year to assist us should we lose picks next year

If anyone resigned it is tantamount to being guilty. The press would have a field day and the AFL would be forced into giving santions. Stick fat, deny everything and say very little.

Come on, quit this hypocrisy. Chasing these parasites legally? What does that mean--chasing Schwab and Connolly? This site howled down anyone who protested that a decision not to pursue every game would be damaging to morale and particularly for the players. I wrote that notto attempt to win every match would be destructive of the fibre of the club In response Beelzebub wrote a most persuasive piece designed to show how the acquisition of guns-as opposed to merely good players-- was absolutely vital to the future of the club. And he had overwhelming support. For people on this site to look for scapegoats would be outrageous.

Did you watch rd 11 v the pies we smashed them in the third quarter by putting preesuer on the ball carrier Tehn we allowed them to roam free and had multiple goals kicked against us I have watched the whole season once on fox and i will watch again I am left wuith a few impressions 1) We were better than i thought in some quarters and games 2) We were no where fit enough 3) stupid turnovers by Morton Gimes tapscott McDonald eta l cost us momentum thatw e could recover from 4) Davey is completely cooked 5)Jack Watts belongs on the halfback flank 6)Tom McDonald is a star

A person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match – or in relation to any aspect of that match, for any reason whatsoever. Last time I check, neither Schwab or COnnolly are a player, coach or assistant coach. We know the players tried to win. We know Bailey never told them to lose. The AFL have absolutely nothing they can ping us on, and if they do then they are operating 0utside their own rules, and the law. This whole investigation is a joke.

Caroline Wilson, Dwayne Russell, Neil Mitchell, Jeff Kennett, ............... morons and potential future sponsors of the MFC.

who gives a shyte why he left, he's a [censored] and glad he's gone, good riddance to bad rubbish and slow turtles

Starting to get the feeling that the terms of reference for the investigation are implicitly 'keep going until you find something'. But the actual case for an organised rorting of the system, outsde the spirit of usual 'we're cooked, next year's preseason starts now' routine, seems to be getting weaker and weaker. I really do hope this blows up in Caroline Wilson's face, I'd hate to see such excessive aggression be rewarded, especially in a media figure.

Nothing to do with protecting the MFC Canplay. Im sure he despises the joint. But if he were to admit that his name would be posion in the football world and his coaching / media / football career at ANY level would be finished. regardless of any assurance or amnesty the AFL gave him. Im also sure that he would never have been stupid enough to instruct any body to lose.

Good boy DB. Mind you, wouldn't have expected much different, since he's the one they'd be gunning for above all.

Don't just put it down to his being a great team man....................... put it down to a man who quite simply - tells the truth ( even when the media is desperately trying to trick him into lying)

To me he is the Farren Ray type we wanted but missed out on in the trade period. Mid 20s, 100 game player who can add some run off half back. Meets the same criteria, but is free.

So america, I'm sensing your a half glass empty kinda a guy.

I'd like the Club to come out and state why he wasn't appointed; maybe something like "we didn't think he was up to it anymore and we only interviewed him as a courtesy in the first place because of his senility seniority". It really is beyond the pale to see all these monkeys come out and have a free hit at the club, fight back boys.

A couple that are non-sports related.. The midget psychic that escaped from jail had the headline, "Small Medium at Large". Or the article about the lunatic that escaped from the asylum, was alledged to have sexually assulted a lady at a laundromat, but is still on the run. Headline read "Nut Screws Washer and Bolts".

But...hang on...we'd better decide whether he is forward or back, because if he's a defender and we play him at FF, then that's tanking.

It's highly unlikely that before the AFL Commission has even met to make a decision, that the penalty has been decided and then leaked to an assistant coach at another club. All this tells us is something we should already know - people within AFL clubs gossip and make up stories too.

To anyone on Demonland or anywhere else who have personal agenda's with board members, ex board members or alleged board members grow up and move on. Your childish actions are hurting my god damn club. I know nothing about board members or if Schwabb is doing a good job or not. I'm just a bloke who pays up and goes to games. Leaking info to try to over throw a board hurts my club whilst you try to pursue your agenda's. You don't love the club you love yourself.

Once again I will reiterate that the fact is the club will definitely pick Oliver Wines at 4 if available. Fact. If he's not available the club will pick up a mid and not a ruckman. Fact. Source: The Mighty Melbourne Football Club. Cheers, Hells Gates.

If ADC's a former board member, then I'm Bon Jovi. Note: I am not Bon Jovi.