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I'm preparing for the worst possible news to come our way... Clark and Jones locked up... In a Bangcock prison, looking at life, for killing Tom McDonald and Jeremy Howe. Moloney knuckles down, signs 3 year deal.

The club should stop it this year seriously. I love a good drink. But these guys didn't get out of first gear in 2012. Round one was [censored] and nothing changed. The supporters deserve the mad monday.

Great players play well in great sides........ The club, the media and the supporters, expecting a teenager to carry this club to a premiership? That's the real joke....... Jack Watts has been carrying 50 years of desperation, on his shoulders since he's arrived at the club.... Without leaders this club is nothing..... Regardless of who we add.... Blame Jack Watts if you want too.... But the real problem is the fact that we expected him save us, instead of us saving ourselves...... He's a kid...... Nic Nat has champions around him to guide him through tough matches...... Who's Jack had? Moloney....McLean....hahaha what a joke...... Jack Watts could walk in to any other club in the league, and become a superstar of the AFL...... Because there he wouldn't have to carry the whole club....... For me Jack is one of the few Glimmers we have left....

58 - 25. That's our free kick count in WA this year. Seriously, if that discrepancy happened to Collingwood there would be a major inquiry. This isn't all our fault, we are the AFLs [censored] at the moment in so many ways. I think someone needs to cop a fine for the club and come out swinging. I have NEVER dropped the c bomb while watching the footy but when Tapscott had the ball taken from him right in front of goals for a perfectly legal (and awesome) bump I just lost it. Jones is held onto all night and gets nothing while managing to give away 4 frees. It's hard enough when your'e an inexperienced team in professional sport but having to deal with this sort of bullshyte just shouldn't happen at this level. The umps can go fornicate themselves after that performance, it was disgraceful. And so can Balantyne, just cause he's a squeaky voiced midget gong-beater. Phew. I feel a little bit better now.

Am I the only one who is only now getting excited about what Neeld might do? I've been saying all along that he planned on using this year to get a feel for the list and had pretty much written off the season in terms of competing on the ladder. I don't think he had planned on it being quite as bad as it turned out, but nobody can doubt that he now has the measure of the playing group. Obviously there are a few people thinking along similar lines given the threads showing up regarding who will be cut. I am really looking forward to the nest three months. This is the time when we're finally going to see what kind of stamp Neeld will put on the club. I expect us to see a serious cull on our playing list, at least an attempt to be very active in trade week, and the draft this year promises to be fascinating. In three months time our list will be almost unrecognisable. It may have been a shocking season to be a Melbourne supporter, but we are going to end with something to talk about if nothing else.

I know one player who wants to come to this club.....Jack Viney. You watch Jack, Jones, Clark, Howe, Tommy Mac, Grimes, Trengove lift the fitness intensity. There'll be no cancelling of time trials with these blokes leading.

That's a WYL-esque I've-Forgotten-What-My-Own-Point-Was---Oh-Wait-I-never-had-one style sidestep Rover. Here, I think you dropped this:

Jamar - one dimensional ruck man who has had one terrific season in 9 years at the club. He has struggled with injury this year and is already looking so slow. Doesn't offer anything once the ball hits the ground, and can't rest forward. McKenzie - an absolute battler who tries his heart out but can't kick over a jam tin and can't run out of sight - two pretty important elements in modern football. What on earth was our 'wonderful' new football department thinking giving these blokes three years each? I understand they're both great guys but surely 2 years would have been more than enough. When you combine these decisions with the FD's obsession with blokes like Bail, you really have to wonder what's going on at this club.

The cull is almost upon us. Wait until after the ND, the list will look very different. I firmly believe that non-performing players are going to be moving on.

I believe in Neeld.

FMD. I reckon this post and the issue highlighted is like an IQ test in disguise. This is not about neeld; it is about the way we got him. Think of it this way: EVERYTHING a footy club does is about people. The product is the quality of footy you play - dependent on the players, their coaches (the footy club culture is mainly a product of the interaction of these two variables) and the facilities. The facilities are dependent on the board and the footy admin (business side). So, every single thing that you need at a footy club is produced by a person or utterly depedent on a person (or team of them). This makes PEOPLE the most crucial resource of the club. In my mind this means that, if you want success, you need good people. Maybe great people. How do you get great people? Now, I would presume that this would be different for each area you looked at. However, at the heart of things is that you need an emphasis on how you find, attract and retain great people. The recruiting of the coach, the firing of DB, the selection of players are all examples of areas where we have failed to have a thorough and/or successful process. If we stuff up the basic business of footy - getting great people - then we are effed.

I think Neeld has been given the unenviable task of clearing out the shyte and ridding the joint of the stench that currently lingers. This as belz's said will take seasons. Already there are plenty of doomsayers crapping themselves silly at the thought of yet another rebuild but there is no other alternative. Once he's done the hard yards I hope we have the Kahunas to reward the guy. From an Industry point of view I think it's critical that we stay the course and demonstrate to the football world that we have a spine. Currently we are considered a basket case by most in the Industry because we jump at shadows and wet our selves every time someone criticises us or the going gets tough. The first couple of years will be the undoubtedly be the worst. I hope we don't treat Neeld as a "Spade work" coach, and for once show some intestinal fortitude and loyalty.

Heres the , to me, hole in the logic.. If Neeld and Craig do such a job that whomever folowed was to be successful as the legacy they left was sound. Why would you not let them continue as they were/are obviously on the right track ? So manyhere expect overnight turnarounds..This build and refinement WILL take seasons. It will take that long because we are coming from such a low base. Is that the fault of Craig and Nelld ? Hardly its the fault of successions of inept FD's and coaches. So many want to judge the abilities of these blokes on where we are right now. For miines thats ridiculous. A years time will give a much clearer indication of direction and progress.

Yep - you're right. How he took such a fantastically talented, super fit, experienced, physically hard AFL list to 16th on the table this year is beyond me. To think, following the superb performances towards the end of last season, I had thought we were a lock-in for the finals this year. If only we had a better process. Perhaps we could have landed Mick Malthouse or Allan Jeans or perhaps even Norm Smith. It's so good that we have you to straighten up everyone's thinking about Mark Neeld. Thank you Hardnut.

I missed the Freo game live so the first thing I did was get on to this site to learn what I had missed. The reports were very negative so rather than read on I flicked on the replay. The first quarter was better than expected after reading this site . The umpires got them off to a slightly undeserved flier. Dunn’s reflexes too quick for his own good in giving away a 50 metre penalty. Howe was pulled out of a contest by the serial cheat McPhee on the edge of the goal square. One goal gifted to them; one denied us. We backed ourselves with run and overlap once we were settled. The semblance of an attacking game is starting to emerge, Sylvia, Grimes and Tom Mac all worked hard and were effective. Nicholson won plenty of it but his disposal by hand and foot is dreadful. I kept thinking what a difference Mitch Clark would make to this line up. Watts much better than Demonland would have me believe, working both ends of the ground and attacking contests even though he did not get a lot of it. We played hard contested football, Nicholson’s second quarter spoils were strong. Grimes, Trengove and Sylvia all continued strongly but it is the simple lack of reliable marking targets that undermines our time in the forward 50. If there’s no one to rove to there’s not much the roving types can do. So far I have only watched the first half. Sandilands destroyed us but we had an underdone Jamar against him. POSITIVES: ,more contests, more run, Grimes looking more and more of a leader, Fitzpatrick might well be a player - interesting to have big Mitch around him, Nicholson’s attack on the ball, stronger bodies than we had in the first half of the season, Tom Mac, Blease continues to show some dash and self belief. NEGATIVES: nothing new here: too little support and run for Jones in the middle although Jordie Mac works hard in the contests; no consistent forward structure to speak of – Green’s absence was notable even though he was not the tall target Clark would be. If I can stand to watch the second half might add some more. FINAL COMMENT: Ross Lyon is a smug [censored] – glad now the Aints let him down and will enjoy Geelong kicking his butt back west next week. Oh, and Zac Dawson is a fraud of a footballer.

I don't think that's the case at all. We all know this thread is just an excuse for you to try and bash Watts again, so why don't you just start up a NikNat love thread mate.

without a doubt NN is the most overrated player in the comp by a country mile everybody knew at draft time that the kid would be an attention-getter and it has gotten quite out of hand the bloke averages 4.5 kicks over 75 games FCS

To add to this post, when first year players walk into a club they are given a player to mentor them through the process, at the least providing an example for the youngster to follow. This player usually comes in the form of somebody who plays in the same position, has a few years under his belt and has established themselves as a key player in the side. Michael Hurley would have been able to look up to Matthew Lloyd seeing the hard work he puts in, Naitanui could have followed Dean Cox around for his first year yet all the while, and I know this for a fact, our new hope Wattsy had none other than Juice Newton as his mentor. Imagine walking into a club and having Brad Miller and Michael Newton as the key forwards he's supposed to learn off, the kid never stood a chance.

Forgive me if I'm not in a positive mood. For all the 'progress' we've made we were smashed in just about every key stat last night. We've won 31 of our past 141 matches, effing Fitzroy were kicked out of the competition with a better strike rate than that during their last 6 years. How many quarters do we go through barely scoring? We've had 10 top 20 picks from 2006 to 2010 & effed up 80% of them. The talented players we have are generally soft & lazy. Our hardest & hardest working players (whom always end up on the chain of handballs) couldnt hit the backside of a barn from 1 metre by hand or foot. Watching Melbourne play is like a sick joke, it looks almost as if when we have the ball we man up, when we don't we spread. We don't block, chase, tackle or intimidate opponents. Where was the support for Jones last night when that maggot Crowley was mauling him & giggling all the while? Why don't our players hunt & attack the ball? Toby Greene from GWS is about 5'5 & 30kgs dripping wet, yet he has the confidence in his own game & support from his teammates to win the ball. This team is a joke to the word 'professional' - until coach & playing group take responsibility for our current shithouse state we are effed. Given past history I won't be holding my breath. So let's save the positivity until we see some tangible results ergo not meek 60 point losses in 4 win seasons.

Every year we come out and lose virtually every practice match and play like shiite. Everyone says 'ITS ONLY PRACTICE' but we are practicising to play like shiite. And we go into the season with zero momentum. We haven't won a 1st round game since 2000 and F**** 5 Next year I wanna see fire and I wanna see hardness and I want to see desire and effort. I can't watch any more of this crap.

I said when we drafted Watts that I didn't care about his first three years. KPPs take a few years and skinny under-age ones take even longer. I wanted to see some glimpses but ultimately we all knew he was a long way away when first drafted. So I have long been a defender of Watts because he simply wasn't ready for senior footy when drafted. This was his fourth year and so I expected to see some genuine improvement. After a slow start he showed signs when moved to half back that he was prepared to get involved more and influence games. He was probably our best player for 3 or 4 games in a row. It's really the few weeks before he got injured and the last few games where he has been really disappointing, especially given the progress he had made around about Rounds 8-11. So I'm not going to write off a player after four years when I didn't expect anything from him in the first three. However, at the same time, some of his efforts this year were below expectation and as he moves into his fifth year he needs to make a big improvement in a few areas. In 2013 he will not be a baby any more. He will have had enough pre-seasons to at least be able to compete physically at AFL level. I'm not expecting him to be a superstar next year, as he still has development in him, but I will be bloody disappointed if he's still losing one-on-one contests against 18 year olds and failing to go when it's his turn.

If Jack Watts finishes high in the Bluey.. Then it ia clear indication that this club is not up to AFL standard. Simple.

I'll invite Jones to my place for some well earned drinks. The rest can mow my lawns.

Agree Stuie. If it isnt already, the honeymoon is over for Neeld and many of the players. Excuses of new game plan etc etc will not wash in 2013. I will be watching closely what we trade/delist/draft and how we start off pre season. I think Neeld knows the bunson burners are on him. They should also be turned directed at those who appointed him. I am hoping for a miracle over the next six months that the team that runs out on the ground in March is completely improved from the carp that has soiled the MFC jumper this year.

Now you'll get a ridiculous amount of laughs - he's worth a chocolate teapot. People on this thread comparing him to Gibbs are wrong. On the Gibbs-Morton scale, Watts is somewhere in the middle. At least Gibbs & Morton have kicked more than 3 goals in a match before. Our last 3 number 1 picks have been Scully, Watts & Johnstone. Coupled with first round picks in the last decade including: Luke Molan, Nick Smith, Daniel Bell, Colin Sylvia, Brock McLean, Matthew Bate, Lynden Dunn, Cale Morton, Sam Blease, James Strauss, Jordan Gysberts & Lucas Cook. We'd have to be AFL recruiting's dirtiest joke.

my confidence on the on field for this club is shot.. i really dont know where the improvement is gunna come from.. i just dont know anymore where this club is going and what the future holds..

Ben Hur - if Watts does not dramatically improve his intensity and appetite for the contest then I will definitely blame BP. We're not talking about a speculative late rookie pick, we're talking about the number 1 pick in the draft. Given the importance of this selection, the resources put in to ensuring you make the right decision must be enormous. The recruiting manager must know these players inside out. Not just their foot skills, marking ability, pace, athleticism, etc. but also their character, mental strength, intensity, hunger, toughness and competitiveness. I believe that from watching and studying junior footballers you can make pretty accurate calls on their hunger and toughness. BP should have known everything about Watts including these mental traits. If Watts is not a star then it is absolutely BP's fault. Watts showed some signs earlier in the year of an increased appetite to get involved in the game and greater intensity. But just before his injury and since coming back he has been horrendous. Some of his efforts tonight were absolutely pathetic. The one where he dropped the chest mark because a Docker was closing on him was like watching a 10 year old. He has time on his side but gee I'd hope he gets a serious talking to about where he's at and what will happen if he doesn't pull his finger out.

You can add Garland to the 3 yr WTF list.

Why are people suprised that we sucked? We have always been a terrible interstate side, we were terrible when the season was on the line, we have nothing to play for, our fitness has been sited as bad all year, we are at the end of a long season, our key forward is out injured, Freo are tuning up for the finals while we are getting ready for another grueling preseason, this is the expected result. The only reason to expect any sort of performance is for those whose careers are on the line to try to regain their spot, and thank goodness none did, so the cull just got easier! And don't say pride or showing improvement, I think this coaching panel have decided whose bags are checked and are getting ready to load the NQR bus, the rest was about trying some stuff out. Seeya later 2012, bring on some trades and drafts and the hardest pre-season these players have ever known.Next year is make or break for the coach and quite a few highly touted talents, fail in 2013 and we're in deep deep trouble. JUST BE GLAD ITS OVER!

Okay then, what's the choice ? Do we just close up shop? I don't want to do that - do you ? You can't change the past. But at this stage changing coaches would do little more than speed up the demise of a great club. We signed him for more than one year - because there was a realization of those in the decision making process that a strong man with unwavering conviction in what they were doing was the only answer. I know we disagree but I think Mark Neeld has shown these qualities this year and has a proper plan as to what is required. It is is not pretty - but unless we want to go on as we have for far too long, nearly there, what's the choice? I say stick with the plan.

Yeah denying them holidays and a fun week off is a great way to get them keen for preseason!

I imagine many will be on permanent vacation.

Anyone who continues to whinge about this - GTFO. Range Rover can start. Go away. You clog up this forum with ridiculous threads, polls and posts. So sick of reading your drivel.

As I understand it, the club wanted Clarkson but he signed on with the Hawks and we moved on. Malthouse was a no go zone and Ross Lyons' manager passed on his client's instructions that he was still in talks with the Saints. Ross however, had already been approached via the back door by the Dockers who made him an offer that couldn't be refused (especially due to his financial circumstances). Leigh Matthews has been out of the game for far too long to be a head coach in today's game. Mark Williams had a contract with GWS. Once you've exhausted that lot, you're into the young up and comers and Neeld came highly recommended, had four impressive years as an understudy and by all reports interviewed well. The Neil Craig connection made the combination all the more impressive. I'm of the view that next year and the year after will be the time to judge them and whether the due diligence in the selection process was up to standard.

I wanted to re-visit the topic of China, I say re-visit as it was discussed at length in past on Demonology and assume it was here too. The last Melbourne administration did a lot of work to form ties in China, this included visits, donating equipment and inviting several members of a local AFL team to train with the club. They also held an exhibition game in Shanghai as part of the World Exposition, this was largely successful but was only really attended by expats were very few locals in the crowd. All of this is a good start; however, it seems that little has been done (publicly) to continue the push into the Chinese market. I wonder, if like the Irish experiment, that this will be another endeavor by the MFC which is then picked up by other clubs while we are left scratching our heads. The potential in China is mind blowing, the most popular sport in China is currently Basketball this is mainly due to the success of Yao Ming and as a result half of the country (yes, an exaggeration) follow the Houston Rockets and own at least one item of their official merchandise, this makes the Rockets one of the most attractive teams to sponsor in the world. I am not purporting that any push by the MFC would have the same effect or be comparable to the Rockets, however, it seems that this initiative is dead in the water or at least come to a stand still – I can’t for the life of me understand why. The Chinese are extremely nationalistic and as soon as a Chinese person enters a sporting stage that sport and subsequently that team get a huge amount of air play on the state owned (all) television stations, this has the obvious flow on affect of generating a lot local interest and support. I propose that instead of sitting on the sidelines that the MFC becomes more active in the World’s largest market and the current economic powerhouse. I have often thought about how this can be done. First, the MFC needs to continue to establish ties with local sports teams, for example Beijing Guoan (soccer team), this will do a lot to get the MFC brand out into the public. Secondly, the MFC need to give a great amount of support into growing the game within China. They should start this by being actively involved in the Chinese AFL teams, this could be done by reaching out to both the expat teams in Beijing and Shanghai. Thirdly, the MFC could be taking advantage of the Chinese social media systems such as weibo (Chinese twitter), Ren ren (Chinese Face book) and Chinese video streaming sites. Chinese live their lives online and by utilizing these tools the MFC would very quickly generate a lot of interest among the Neitzens. If they were to post highlights of each MFC game on video sharing websites then these would spread like wildfire. All of my Chinese friends love AFL they love the pace the skill and the hits. Finally, and perhaps most importantly the MFC should seek out a Chinese national who is a natural at sport and who could have the potential (with work) to play AFL football. Put said athlete on the rookie list and spend the time to develop him. This would generate enormous exposure in the Chinese market. If the athlete does not amount to anything, what have we lost? A rookie spot. However, think about what we have gained. We have gained a huge amount of free publicity in China – significantly raising our currency to potential sponsors. We would potentially gain million of supporters, albeit not members but people willing to buy official merchandise. Although as an aside the club could put together a $15 membership. We have regained credibility as a club that thinks outside of the box. I am sure that there are many other upsides that I have not written; I am very interested to hear what other posters feel about the topic.

The boys deserve a break - I have no problems with the 'Mad Monday' tradition. I hope they come back fresh ready to put in 100% to Neeld & Missions demands

You're absolutely right Scoop. I cut BP slack on Watts because many top-line recruiters have stated that they too would have taken him. I remember driving in to see him play in the championships at Etihad in 2008. Stephen Wells was being interviewed on SEN and he was asked who he'd take at 1 if he had that opportunity. Geelong were a mile off pick one, which he meant he hadn't given it a lot of thought, but he did utter the name "Jack Watts". And we all know he's the guru of recruiting. But in hindsight I doubt he would have. If he'd had pick one he would have put an enormous amount of effort into the selection and ultimately decided against it. When I was chatting with my Brother recently, who also went to the championships with me, we both agreed that indeed BP could and should be blamed. I said to him that I'd learnt a lot from those early days of going to Casey to watch the championships. Now, if I had to choose a key forward early in the draft I'd have to be convinced of their aggression, whether they embraced physical contact (like Barry Hall, Brereton, Carey, or Brown), their courage in the air (highly underrated), and their hunger to succeed. These parameters would be non-negotiable and at the top of my list. Watts fails in every one of them. I have these KPI's because I've put some effort into studying footy and players. But why didn't Prendergast have these parameters too ? Especially when you're being paid excellent money as a club's head recruiter. So yes, I've discussed this very point and agree with you entirely. I cut him slack because I always have. But it's wrong to.

A celebration suggests you actually have something to celebrate or have achieved something. On that basis, Nathan Jones and a couple of others should grab an esky and find a pnone booth to party in.

I was about to write a similar post but this sums it up for me also I have been arguing with my dad (a passionet dees man) who has been calling jack a dud for years and can't see anything special. Simply put he hasn't been developed properly and quite simply not many have in recent times not sure if it's coaching or support networks or simply leadership. In a side like Geelong, collingwood, Sydney, westcoast, hawthorn he would be a genuine star. Trade him sure but is that going to solve the problems of how we ever developed potential junior stars? I would say not. Why do you think Neeld and co selected Grimmes and Trengove as leaders, because they are the best we have. I feel the club is on the right track we just need more Jonesy's, Grimmes, trengoves and Clarkes Who from all reports work there asses off. Neeld, Craig, Rawlings and brown are all quality individuals that need to galvanize this club of individuals into a team and get the best out of them. Just remember this is there first year together at Melbourne and as expected there will be some big changes at the end of this season starting now lets judge this club again in 12 months and see if there is any improvement from this disastress 2012. Back I topic this includes Watts as he is a massive part of this club. And I can only hope they get the best out of him because his best will be as good as any in the game including NicNat.

I agree Tatu, the hate on here is amazing, who needs the press when we can turn on our own...... That being said, he sure as hell needs to toughen up and get himself more involved in the game. He has more pure skill than most anyone, but the physicality (and body strength) is a real concern. We need this to improve, he needs to want to be great, but he is not the only, or even our biggest concern.

The worst thing for me is how little passion I feel. It was a horrid season, and I should [censored] off or worried about where we're heading / excited about where we're heading... but nope, nothing. It's just meh, kick back and see what happens... Once upon a time I cared so much more.

Watts, Gysberts, Bate, Bennell, Morton, Blease, Strauss, Green, Garland, Cook, Jurrah, Nicholson, Martin, Davey, Fitzpatrick. A third of our list has no appetite for the contest and/or no c@#t. Just a team of nice guys. I'm not sure how you fix this but all I know is you wouldnt want to go to war with any of these blokes. I hope Neeld is absolutely brutal, because watching Crowley manhandle Jones all night with no support from any teammates was embarrassing.

There's no satisfaction with a disgraceful season like we've just had, but tonight is not the night for me to lose my noodle with our ineptitude. It's actually a night of relief that it's over, that we can clear out some NQRs and look forward to some stellar trading and drafting.

Just in case I don't see you again Lynden, I particularly appreciated your one punch spoil when you should have marked, but heard footsteps. Thanks for old times sake.

The whole problem is that mad Monday means more to these spuds than playing good footy

Positives: Really good attack on the ball shown by all players, second third and fourth efforts a real highlight. No player was ever caught flat-footed with or without the ball. Good skills and decision making, especially from Dunn and McDonald. Trengove was just too quick and sharp for his direct opponent all night, his progress has been amazing. Jack Watts laying his body on the line yet again (how is still able to walk is incredible), good to know West Coast are still upset he didn't slip down to number two in the draft. The team played as a tight unit all night, the structure held up well, there was good support offensively through their spread and defensively through blocks and shepherding. Well coached, especially around the stoppages and kick-outs. Melbourne looked to have an answer for every situation. The umpiring was as good as you are likely to see in a game of football. If anything Melbourne got the rub of the green, but you just have to take those opportunities when they come around. McKenzie's quick handpasses left Fremantle guessing as to where the ball would go next all night. Negatives Cale Morton was unavailable to play tonight. Heartbreaking to know that some players on the list have played their last ever game for the club. We don't get to see this team for another six months.

Soidee, can I suggest, instead of starting forum topics, if you really feel upset and need to talk to someone, they will always listen; Lifeline 13 11 14

Pretty slack not televising the minor premiers

Hardnut, is it not clear to you that this club has a problem with "senior" players being a) not as good as senior players at other clubs and B) no leadership skills? There is a reason why the group of well respected imported coaching staff (inc neeld and Craig) left him out of the leadership group. There is a reason why he isn't allowed to run around, puff his chest out and bark and point at other players anymore. You refer to neeld lovers as if the club has just fallen from glory days. We have had a serious problem within the club for decades. Young players that leave have flourished, senior players that leave play out their years at box hill. The club is trying to change that. Open your eyes, you aren't seeing anything except your favourite player not getting a game.