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Having watched the GWS win today it is clear that draft picks, if used correctly, are the gold of AFL football. GWS have a sensational bunch of young kids and they have clearly drafted well. We haven't. If we use our draft picks well this year, get JV as a second round pick, do a couple of good trades, we could be back in business a lot sooner than many think. GWS have shown that young mids can play well in their first year, so we have to pick a few good ones.

Well we're not Geelong, we're pure rubbish. Beating Gold Coast and GWS by 1 billion points wouldn't change the fact that we're pure garbage and it wouldn't change the team's attitude about anything. We're rubbish, as if having absolute prime position in this draft wouldn't give you a woody. I'm not saying tank, we'd probably even fail at that, but I'd rather the spoon and the picks than some meaningless, sloppy win over the noobs. Places 9 - 18 mean nothing to me.

I don't know if I can be bothered with this if we win the spoon this year. We will move a couple of positions up the draft order but will lose 5,000 in membership and many could have been members will simply stop caring. No kid will want to barrack for Melbourne and we will lose another generation of supporters.

Like many, I have tremendous reservations about a former president coming out and commenting about specific allegations against his club which might result in damaging sanctions being enforced against it, particularly at a time when the club is already against substantial threat and attacks in the media, some of it justified, most of it not. Like Paul, I felt most uncomfortable about that period in the club's history. The moral dilemma of knowing that defeat was more important than victory and the consequences which that entailed was probably the most bitter feeling I have tasted personally in all of my days as a supporter of this club. For that I blame the AFL and the collective leadership of all of the AFL clubs (including Paul Gardner). The dilemma of the priority pick and the temptation to tank or to experiment or to skillfully manage your list to take advantage of the draft rules didn't emerge overnight in the latter half of the 2009 season. It was around in the late 1990s when Fremantle disintegrated at a time when Paul Haselby was the next best thing. After that we had St. Kilda, Carlton (on several occasions), the Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn and Collingwood all exposed to the dilemma and then us and later, the Eagles. You could write an interesting book on some of the positional moves, team changes, early surgeries, disciplining of players and other tactics and strategies employed that can be pointed out and attributed to clubs that strangely enough, all just happened to end up with priority draft picks. So where was the AFL on this issue for the best part of a decade? Where were club presidents like Paul Gardner and others in 2007 when Carlton was pulling off the biggest draft rort in history right in front of all us in the Kreuzer Cup game. I accept that his team wasn't tanking that evening but if we're now taking a highly principled moral stand about wiping out tanking (and I agree that we should) then where were Andrew Demetriou and where was Paul Gardner and all of others who frown on the practice in September 2007 when Fevola was placed safely out of sight so that Lance Whitnall could miss shots from 20 metres out and Travis Johnstone was free to roam and accumulate 42 possessions? If a policy of "no comment" publicly was good enough then, then surely it's more than good enough now.

They're fickle anyway and will come back on board once Viney, Cloke, Whitfield & Stringer (or whoever goes 1 & 2) are ripping it up for us. Do you really think if they're going to jump off they wouldn't have done so already or that they'll refuse to buy a membership just because we finish 18th instead of 16th?

And me.

Hahahaha. "So Travis, what do you say, 1 million per season for 6 years, you in?" "Did you beat Gold Coast?" "Yes!" "I'm in"

I would prefer a club with Geelongs attitude, who just hate losing, regardless of who plays on the day.

I'm astounded that there are still fans who want to see us lose games after witnessing what that mentality has done to this club. It actually amazes me.

So not coming last will be ok in the minds of the lot of people you speak about? If I was one of those fickle types that is looking for a final straw, I'd be long gone already. Success will cement members, finishing 16th is far from success obviously. Being able to do whatever you want with this draft, as well as Viney in the 2nd round would set us up for years, Mr Fickle and his kids will be back wearing shiny new jumpers with picks 1 and 2 on the back in no time. We're in a good spot draft wise anyway, but I fail to see how anyone wouldn't want to be in the BEST spot.

I love Grimes but it's easier said then done to become Lenny. While we are at it can we make Morton into Rioli, Cook into Darling, Gawn into Cox and so on and so on.

What an exclusive I can break to you all on demonland. Andrew Demetriou's email addressing all things tanking to Adrian Anderson. Major news. Here we go: Yo Adrian, How's it going? Things are pretty sweet up here at the Olympics in London. I went to the badminton last night - awesome. Got some autographs at the basketball. But I could go on and on about the awesome time I'm having. I hear there have been some dramas around tanking in the last couple of days. Boy, thought we'd heard the last of this one. Oh well, I wrote this letter during the men's 100m freestyle final, so if you could put this out as a press release that'd be just great. Just edit where necessary. Try to make me look funny. "Dear media members, AFL fans and employees who are back home enjoying our great game while I conduct important business in London. It is with great sadness that I must inform you that the AFL has today decided to administer some penalties in light of public comments made recently by Northern Bullants player Rock McLean. As a consequence, we have decided to harshly penalise the Melbourne Football Club for their flagrant tanking in, well, pretty much any game between 2007 and 2012. But more on that later. Sadly, while strenuously digging around for evidence of Melbourne's foul play, we have discovered that they were not alone. It is with a heavy heart that the AFL hands down the following penalties to various clubs for breaches of the newly created Tanking Act: Carlton: The Blues appear to have been the trailblazer for Melbourne's rorting. You can't tell me the Cruiser (look, I can't spell his name - you don't think having to deal with the pronunciation of bloody R Nahas on Brownlw night is enough?) Cup wasn't a little fishy. I seem to remember T Johnstone having something like 67 possessions and 6 Brownlow votes on the night. Total debacle. Where was Fev? No, not literally - I couldn't care less what he was doing at Crown that night - why was he dropped for the last 9 games? As a penalty, Carlton will be forced to swap their #1 pick from 2007, the aforementioned Cruiser, with Melbourne's #4 pick, Cale Morton. My apologies to Cruiser and his family. Collingwood: It's very sad (but hilarious when considering what Eddie's reaction will be) to acknowledge, but Collingwood have been found guilty of some shenanigans of their own. Hmm, losing the last 9 games of 2005 while stuck on 5 wins eh? Didn't think we'd pick up on that one, did you? And just two years removed from back to back grand final chokes no less. Collecting Thomas at 2 and Pendlebury at 5 was a hefty return. Given that Pendlebury won the 2010 Norm Smith, and no one was fooled by calling him Embleberry up there on the stage, we've decided to strip the Pies of the 2010 premiership. (Adrian, let me know when it's safe to come home. PS. Don't read that last bit out.) Hawthorn: Like Collingwood, the Hawks will have to surrender their most recent premiership triumph. Such was their willingness to send players off for season-ending operations in 2004 in great number, numerous children missed out on hospital beds for life-saving operations. Please note, steel reinforcement has been added to the walls of the MCG coaches boxes. West Coast: See the last two. 2006 premiership cup: gone. Blatant malarkey required to get into position to draft Chris Judd, let alone NicNat. Couldn't get em for 'recreational reasons' in 2006, nailed em here. Adelaide: the Crows will be forfeiting the 1997 premiership. Before half of SA chokes on a Farmers Union iced coffee, squealing about not doing anything wrong, ask yourselves - how many times has Shane Ellen played in the forwardline before or since the '97 Grand Final? Positional experimentation is for after hours, not grand finals, thank you very much. St. Kilda and the Bulldogs: One premiership each? Really? Nice try. You now have zero each. Richmond: like the last two, you are an embarrassment to the competition, and not just for introducing the roar-o-meter to the AFL. Two finals appearances since 1982, and this in an era when we've rigged it so half the teams make the finals. We punish Richmond and its supporters by allowing the club to continue as is. Brisbane: You weren't fooling anyone with the 'we only want 8 Fitzroy players' shtick. What, couldn't find a spot for Jason Ramsey or Brent Frewen? Could have been a five-peat (we would have bankrolled it too). You lose the 2001 premiership. Well, no, we need the game in Queensland. Just change your logo, would you? It makes me hungry. Essendon: since 2008, only Richmond and Essendon have disgraced the stae of Victoria by losing to Melbourne. You want to debate that Michael Hurley s better than Jack Watts? Fine, he's a Melbourne player now. Fremantle: LOL! All the advantages afforded to an interstate club in an AFL-mad city and you've made the finals thrice? For being the perennial skidmarks on the AFL's underpants for 18 years and without any accomplishments to remove the Dockers must revert to their original clown suit uniform. Port Adelaide: playing the kids eh? Hmm, Chad Cornes and Dean Brogan excelling at GWS - clearly flogging players off before their use by date. AFL license is hereby revoked. (Adrian: phew, that was easy - I've been wanting to do that for a while). Geelong: one of the more I sickening cases of tanking I've seen. The corruption not only of the sport, but of the female womb. How long did it take to establish this "father-son academy"? How many women tanked themselves out of regular relationships to take part in this production line of prodigies? All three premierships from the modern era are hereby removed. Sydney: (just leave this bit out, Adrian. No one will count the teams anyway). And so we come to Melbourne. This hotbed of treachery and tanking is met with the swift hand of the law. All premiership points for 2012 to be stripped, and their #1 pick from 2009 taken away. They will however be given an additional priority pick at the start of the first round in consequence of their third wooden spoon in five years. We hope this is a warning to all teams, not just Melbourne, of the seriousness of tanking. Yours sincerely, Sir Andrew Demetriou (just watched the equestrian with the Queen - think I talked her into it)" Thanks Adrian -AD

Let's agree to disagree. True MFC people are those who seek to sacrifice themselves for the good of the club. Anyone who is party to a faction that is not seeking to unite the club is in fact then working against the club and for themselves.

Could people please refrain from any criticism or animosity towards members of the media. It might lead them to saying nasty things about our club in return. Thank you.

Surprised there's not more comment about us only picking 1 ruckman... What if Spencer gets injured? Who will be backup ruck? Who will ruck the stoppages Spencil can't get to? Sounds like a pretty ordinary plan to me. And why not pick Fitzy and play him forward? Either we're playing funny buggars and we'll pull a late change (Fitz is an emergency), or we're playing funny buggars and this is one of those "experimenting" games..... Both ways, all we get is funny buggars....

The fact that Cook hasn't got a game when practically everyone else has says to me that Neeld and co are not just blindly playing players "just to get games into them," which can only be a good thing.

Godwin Grech has the e-mail.

Whatever the situation, if we perform poorly (which is a good chance given the make up of the side), you can bet that Paul Roos will be On the Couch pontificating that our plight is solely as a result of the fact that we blatantly tanked in 2009. There will be no mention of the fact that our top goalkicker of this year and last are both out injured, that our AA ruckman and our next best ruckman are out injured, that Jack Watts whose form this year has been excellent is out injured, that about a dozen others are out injured, that more still have had their seasons interrupted, that the MFC has had numerous disruptions in a year when the coach was introducing a new style of play. Of course, Roos has no evidence that the club tanked in 2009 (his guest even denied it and called it "experimenting") and there is no empirical evidence supporting his claim. My definition of tanking is when a club is doing nothing else but trying to lose a game. The only time I can recall an AFL coach coming close to that is during a pre season game involving the Sydney Swans. Perhaps the coach of the Swans of the time would be prepared to answer some questions a particualr viewer would like put to him about instructions given by that coach during the game in question. It would make riveting viewing.

Will the sky fall?

I see your point, Utah, but not convinced you're right. There are many criteria that dictate whether supporters do, or don't, sign on. Poor results are a turn off, for sure, but high draft picks and prospective future stars are a huge turn on for many fans. Most people will be making their decisions on buying memberships starting around pre-xmas (not long after the draft), then again during the NAB Cup and the first few rounds of the real thing. What's more likely to be on fans' minds at those times? - The distant memory of a couple of embarrassing losses at the end of an embarrassing season, or the onslaught of media coverage we will be receiving when there is little else to talk about other than our draft pickups (1, 2, 12 and Jack Viney)? - That we lost to the franchise sides (just like RIchmond and Port), or Jack Viney (and maybe some of our other high picks) showing glimpses of future stardom in the NAB Cup? Sure, our bad results this season will be a turn off for some, but those people have probably already lost faith after the year we've had so far. A couple of wins against the franchise sides is hardly going to be much of a fillip for those types of supporters. Luckily, they will be more that offset by those signing on to see the development of Watts, Trengove, Grimes, Howe, McDonald etc, the return of Clark to dominating at FF, and the debuts of 1, 2, 12 and Viney.

Significantly less than it would be worth at the draft table.

The difference is a different recruitment dept, and a coaching/development structure designed to bring players on. We also have a fitness guru who can help develop individuals fitness. This is why players like Trengove have struggled this year. With the amount of work being put into past high draft picks and the possibiity of 1,2 11 and Viney I have more faith the club will develop a few stars and some excellent A grade players The issues of the past with recruitment and development cannot be compared. We are a different club to last year

And we get Viney for pick 23 instead of pick 3.

I can't believe that we should, in anyway or for any purpose, accept defeat. We have been down that track before. It maybe that a win over the expansion clubs doesn't count for much but it's a hell of a lot better than a loss. Strong clubs play their guts out to win every time, regardless of who is on the paddock. We must build a culture of strength. Talking defeat, thinking defeat, not caring about defeat just enhances the poor culture we have. We as members must demand and expect 100%.

Picks 1, 2, about 9 or 10, and Viney. Winning.

Because MFC has been going for 150 years and GWS is in its first year and therefore everything in respect to GWS is forgiven.

I would prefer to see my team win the next 5 games and make a statement! I don't give a [censored] about high draft picks! I would rather use a high pick on Viney then lose to expansion clubs that we should easily beat. IMO Viney is worth pick 1 because he will bring something to the club that it is lacking in spades....MONGREL!! Having a crack 100% of the time week in and week out! You tell me the last time the MFC or any AFL club has hd a 17 yr old has gone up against a 200 game premiership player and made him look 2nd rate? End Rant.

Winning = players wanting to play for us, players wanting to be traded to us, members signing up with us, sponsors signing on with us and kids going to school in an MFC jumper. It would also really help my tipping at work. It's what we all want.... at least I hope you all want it as much as I do.

Great, so when so many people like myself take their kids to the footy tomorrow and we roll over again I then have to plead with my own children to stick with the club. Even my kids ask why should I barrack for a team that always loses? I couldn't care less about top draft picks I care about winning.

Who cares if we win meaningless games vs GC AND GWS.. it won't improve our culture one bit... imagine if we didn't have to use a high pick on Viney.. this draft would set us up for years to come if we nail the picks:) or even blow one and nail the rest: haha i am happy to lose sorry to be honest here

A great run from Pickles involving two bounces ends in a great goal.

We're not climbing anywhere this season, we'll be 16th no matter what, so the climb still hasn't begun. When it does begin, I'd rather do it with a team that can make it to the top.

I think a lot of peoples support for this club hangs by a thread. I doubt any one on this message board would give up on this club. We are all 100% devoted. But what about all the semi supporters? We need them on board. If you think the difference between 18th and 16th is nothing then good for you. I think pride means a lot. I think we need to hold onto the very, very, small amount that we have got and try to build on it.

We might still be rubbish but I would love to win be I billion points, would put 186 to rest.

At least after the game the kids get to have a kick on the G. I wonder if our players will join in for some tips from my 6 year old daughter?

Casey must be tanking.

Chapman has been a battering ram and is getting slower and slower. I love the guy's character, but he's one calf injury away from not playing again.. And I disagree with you on more kids not being the answer. The right kids are most definitely the answer. There will be players in this draft that will be the equivalent of Selwood, Judd, Hodge, Murphy, etc. History shows this to be the case. Is the following your position ? That we only have so many spots on the list, so rather than getting a couple of kids at pick 60+, that in all likelihood won't impact our list, why not get some character builders onto the list even if it's for only a year, or two. Sav Rocca thought Brereton was a great help to his footy even though he was only at Collingwood for one year. But I'd rather go down the youth path and try and get a Rockliff, Dylan Grimes, Hibberd, or Hardingham onto the list that were all drafted in the Preseason Draft. They'll be on their club's list for 10 years, rather than one or two. Hawthorn got Savage in the ND at pick 75, Puopolo was in the 60's, and Collingwood got Sinclair at 62. Suckling came off a rookie list. So did Hanley and Broughton. Pods was a rookie. So was Blair and Garlett. Michael Barlow too. And the list goes on and on. Sure the last few were rookies and we have rookie spots too, but my point is that they could have been drafted anywhere, save for Hanley. Talent identification is crucial. We've gone down the youth path and we need to stick with it. We just need to get the right kids. We've got strong young leaders who'll only grow and people such as Neil Craig, Rawlings, Neeld and Brown are already instilling the required values. There's no quick fix and a thirty year old for a year or two won't add much to what is already in place.

Yeah, but according to the media he should be reducing his post count to better prepare for next years threads.

It's amazing to watch players work hard for each other.

Thanks DC sounds like a job for another day. I did a list of all the players who have been recruited since 2008 Just to see how they have played as a group. Staggering how many have played so few games due in a lot of cases to injury. I thought it might be of interest but looks like it is difficult to get it on without it scrambling. Interesting that two guys with large numbers and seem to be able to get the ball Cannot kick i.e. Mckenzie and Trengove Four guys drafted in 2008 Bail, Blease, Jetta, and Strauss have played a collective total of 93 out of a possible 336. All of them have had serious long term injuries, The lack of games from these guys is IMO really hurting us all are in their fourth year. They are averaging less than 6 games per person per year. Now I know you can make stat's say anything you like but we have got very little from this group

If you have a problem then address it to the club because, like you, I don't give a rat's what you think, and I reckon that goes for a lot of other posters on here. You're typical of the whingers that never tell the people that they have the problem with and prefer to scream at the wind; which by the way couldn't give a rat's either.

I tend to agree. Ins of players with upside like Gysberts, Strauss and Tapscott certainly feels better than when the Ins read, Bate, Petterd, Dunn

I'm sorry but does anyone listen to Neeld and Misson about Cook? they have said repeatedly said that his body is not ready to play AFL at this stage.

We need to draft for the future - Dustin Fletcher- has 10 good years left in him

Whilst we had a few teething problems with Casey things are going very well at the moment. The addition of the extra development caoches at Melbourne have had a lot to do with that. Brett Lovett is not a full-time coach, which is why he was given the flick fron Sandy. His impact on Casey has been immense. If you bothered to go and watch Casey play, you would see a game plan that is exactly the same as the one Melbourne is trying to play. All of the Melbourne listed players are being played in the positions that they would most probably play in should they get a call up to Melbourne. As the development coaches spend a lot of time at Casey, it is their input that accounts for much of that. We should not just slavishly follow what the other clubs are doing. We should look into the reasons why they are making their decisions and examine our own situation accordingly. If these reasons do not apply in our situation, note them and move on. In short, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

There is no law that any player must play in any particular position. It becomes farcial.

Yeah, I really don't understand why the most obvious explanation isn't being trotted around... McLean is a goddamn dumbass!

Can't stand Hawthorn anyone who was at the games in '87 & '88 knows exactly what I mean.

I only have the one block, though i have to say posts like this certainly make me consider doubling the blocks. I tend to not read your posts in full thaiman but this being unusually short and sharp i got to the end of it before skipping it. How on gods earth can you say with such confidence that no 'other club wanted him including Collingwood'. If you have evidence of this please share. If not and it is just your opinion then give us a spell - i mean 'try to understand this concept'? Pleeeease!

West Coast went from winning a premiership - to tailing out - to being top 4 all within the space of a few years. I've watched sides who I've thought were tanking closely over the years and other than Carlton - who actually threw a game, West Coast were the other side I thought came under serious question. The WA media are so one eyed that WC would never be thrown up as a side that tanked - the media barrack for them, why would the WA media go hard on them? But, like Carlton, they actually tanked and I seen it with my own eyes. Did the Melbourne football club throw games? No! Show me a game we thrown. The Richmond game is in question and we were in front at the siren! Those who suggest we should be investigated based on that game just HATE our club. Haters gonna hate.