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I'll reserve some seats. This club/team has already sent me around the bend. Im doing laps !!

You've been putting up some rather ridiculous material lately WYL.

I don't blame Melb for keeping him. It's not unusual for a new coach to want a look at all of the players at his disposal. He's given him every opportunity, but he's simply not good enough. He's not good enough in the midfield and he's not good enough on a forward flank. There's no point hoarding players that won't take you to the next level.

I've also always taken the view that I don't care about the money. Afterall, I'm only a supporter who wants to improve the team. How about I just let the club worry about whether they can afford player 'x', or not ? But I've shifted my position. Firstly, I don't overly rate Boak, he's a B grader that may become A, or may not, and secondly, I want this club to become a great club. Presently it's a [censored] poor club. The great clubs won't compromise their playing list, or culture by overpaying a B grader just to get him. No-one wants to leave a great club. They take less money to stay. And great clubs don't overpay B graders to lure them. I've said before, I know it's the chicken or the egg. I know we need to get good players to get better and I know that to get good players we need to overpay, or develop from within. I want to build through the draft. I'll be patient if I know the success we'll attain will be sustained. Just make some good effing draft choices and develop them ! Old, I've said plenty of times over the years that just playing finals gives me no jollies. Nothing has changed. The next time we play finals I want to know that we're embarking on a genuine flag tilt and not just making up the numbers. But first we need to become a great club. A great club with great culture. Winning a pissing contest by paying Boak and Port too much won't make us great. And he won't make that much difference to our playing stocks. Give me Jimmy Toumpas at pick 4 and the chance he'll be a star over Boak any day. So I'll say that I completely understand your view and it's one I've previously held. I'd even sway if we were overpaying for Trent Cotchin, but it's Boak. He's suddenly become far better than his reality because he's available. That said, I think you're right and the club won't hold its nerve. We've been down for too long and that will effect the club's decision making. They'll be spooked into making decisions that please supporters. It's called instant gratification. You see, we're not a great club and I doubt we'll be one any time soon.

I was introduced to both sites by Whispering Jack in early 2004 and chose to post on Demonology as I found it much easier on the eyes and to navigate although I have read Demonland quite often. I have made many friends around Australia through Demonology meeting up with them around the country. I see no point in bagging any Demon supporter or either site and IMO those who choose to do so need to have a rethink. I rang Tim Stanes today and he spoke positively about the meeting tomorrow although he will not attend due to ill health. Thanks to Jack and George for their efforts and I hope the meeting produces some positive strategy which results in the revival of Demonology. In the meantime I will continue to read this site for which I am grateful.

Do you lose the right to express an opinion when you leave Australia?I would think travel broadens the mind. Don-you haven't earned the right to call WYL a tool yet . Even if he is a little sh!tty at being a long-suffering Demon . The man is a Demonland institution And God knows we all belong in one .

Excuse me, Fan, but I am not the one insinuating that because Neeld is asking for assurances over his future that he is dictating to the club. He is an employee who will shoulder much of what will happen over the next few years and doesn't want to be cast aside for delivering on process at the expense of performance when the process meant that performance was impossible. Our list is rough. There are a few gems there but the senior players are few and poor, the middle-aged 'peak' players are fewer still and NQR, and the vast array of young talent is unproven and/or NQR. If he asked the club to have his back if they want him to continue this descent into the 5th straight year of getting younger and less experienced then go for it! (if you lose more than 464 games of experience you lose an entire season's worth) Because if they baulk then he gets to say 'Good! Now upgrade Magner, Evans, and Nicholson, overpay for Boak, overpay for Cloke, risk Enright, Chapman, and Sewell, only take 4 kids in the draft, and let me get rid of the protected kids I don't think will make it.' If we can't do these things as a club, if we collectively fail to add some experience and proven talent to the list then the coach shouldn't be held solely responsible and we should take a good long hard look at those who couldn't help Neeld pull off a way of making a three contract for the coach relevant.

The fact that there's any argument over who is better out of Bate, Bennell, Dunn or Petterd is indicative of BH's point about forming an attachment to ordinary players. In the big picture none of these players have a role to play in our quest for glory and all should be gone at years end.

At least you might get some nice new sandstone bridges

19 Brownlow votes disagree with you...

Has everyone failed to learn their lesson from watching Jack Watts? He was torn to shreds as a complete flop by most on here despite the fact that he was(still is) very young, was physically under developed and inexperienced. Yet everyone jumped on him and proclaimed he was a basket case. Now with 50 odd games under his belt, some size he is playing consitently good footy. Yet everyone is doing the exact same thing with Cook. WYL will end up looking very stupid, which is saying something considering he already looks pretty stupid!

Disagree on both counts. The fact he won the B&F last year was indictment on the previous FD, who seemed to think very good performances against very ordinary sides and mediocre or poor performances against everyone else was worthy of the highest club honour. Neeld can't change the fact he is incredibly slow. Whichever club decides to pick him up, if he leaves and if anyone takes him, will be disappointed. A once decent player unable to keep up with the speed of the modern game.

I think it will be interesting to see excactly what Moloney is made of. Neelds obviously told him to go back to VFL and work on certain aspects of his game to improve. He could come back an even better player and add something to the side. Or he could just sulk and then leave the club. Either way I think the club will be better for it.

I have to agree with you Normy.Everyone has a bad year and since he won his Bluey he has had all the focus from other teams stoppers .Brent is a no-nonsense guy who has loved the club since he was a kid.We gain nothing by pouring sh!t on our servants .Neeld will get the most out of him and add strings to his bow .I think we may see a better Brent next year ,if he stays in Red and Blue.Misson is obviously working him pretty hard and his lack of pace can likely be attributed to the extra training for 2013.Form is temporary , class is pemanent .

Thank you for that clarification GV. So if I say "All lawyers are mendastic ,evil ,parasites who deseverve a slow and painful death for their manipulation of societies problems " then I will be OK . But if I said for example "John Smith of Scumstein ,Lieberg and Bullshyte is a fraudulent pedarist and so are his partners" then I may be in trouble .

On the same logic, does Bate not get a game because he's got red hair ?

I reckon referring to members as "ologists" or "landers" is forumist. Can't we all just be "Melbourne supporters"?

The AFL should introduce a pre-match women's league, where each team of the AFL fields a female team.... Much like in the old days, when the reserve's would play before the match, only it would be the women...... It could draw more women in to our sport....... The Olympics has women, the Tennis has women, why can't the AFL? What's the chance of have both teams at the bottom of the ladder? Might be nice to not lose complete interest in the AFL, because your team can't win.....

Round 17 omission. Can't keep a spot in one of the weakest sides on paper we've ever fielded. End of the line me-thinks.

God! Give it a rest, would you?

All of the above was said about Colin Sylvia earlier this year.......A lot of posters said that he should be moved on....delisted....traded to anyone who would have him......He has now found some form and it's very quiet all of a sudden....Moloney is out of form for whatever reason and I for one believe that he will turn his form around and should be kept on the list.....If he goes it will bite us on the bum....and every one here will be saying Why did we let him go?????....What were the FD thinking?????? Even when he won the B&F expert posters on here wre calling him a flat track bully......If you don't like him...fine...but this year was told to lose weight....be more defensive....and completely change your game....This is difficult for more senior players.

Ben Hur two attributes that you haven't listed for Gysberts which I think are real strenghts are an ability to accumulate a high number of possessions and the ability to read and get first hands on the ball at stoppages. I understand he lacks pace, but so do many good midfielders. He is a natural ball finder and ball accumulator in a team that has so few players capable of racking up high possession tallies. His role in the team would be to win first possession from a stoppage and to dish it out and I've seen enough poise and balance in his play to know that he can do this. Pace is not critical in this role, but I accept that he would need to improve his endurance. He has also had injuries and has struggled for continuity in his footy. And he is only a third year player. I would be shocked if the club delisted him, it would show a distinct lack of patience. He's a must keep for mine.

Answer... "Yes", indeed you are being cynical, and unnecessarily so in my opinion. Reason? Well, if you look at the pinned thread on last week's Casey game, you will see the following: Spencer is getting a game this week for obvious reasons, Moloney is not getting a game this week for equally obvious reasons (how many opportunities does he need?), Gysberts does not appear in that list of best players and is likely underdone as by all reports he was unable to play out the entire game well, so it is patently obvious that Jetta has earned a call up and has earned the right to prove his worth before the season is done with.

I agree. Bater tried real hard. Its more an indiction of how poor our previous training and FD have beeen.

He'll stay, and he'll bounce back next season. The guy loves the Dees and will continue to try his guts out. Is likely struggling under the increased training load (he's been in the MFC system for too long!), should be fresh for 2013.

Conditions and match ups would definitely have been a factor. Beamer & Bate would sweat 12kgs in that heat.

Laughable opinion. Staggering how people can arrive at conclusions like this.

Moloney has sulked all year, is not playing defensively and is not finding the ball. Got a rocket last week. Did not respond well enough in the magoos. Mediocrity would be to keep playing him. Boak to Melbourne, Moloney to Port and potentially a pick thrown in as well. Done deal.

The "race card" was pulled by the OP (and now by you) I, like Nasher, question the logic and thought process that took the OP from A to XenonB39. If you start a thread that suggest someones race is why they were selected that to me is sloppy thinking, AFL players work hard and train hard to get to play the game at the level most people on this site only dream of. To then say that they get selected into a team because they are indigenous is ignorant and a little sad really and as I have previously stated sloppy logic. I would have no issue if the OP had only said he got selected because of his, form, fitness or lack of discipline.

The writing is much bigger than the wall?

Here's a novel idea... Bring back the Reserves! From memory I think the AFL is very reluctant to have games played on the surface prior to the AFL games as the turf gets torn up due to rain.

He on't be alone with that fate.

Should've let him go last year. Whatever the role Neeld had him penned in for hasn't transpired (we can say that about most of the team) and he's only managed to show a couple of glimpses. Agreed that he will be on the march come seasons end.

A good honest goer but to me for his size looks a bit slow and skill level not solid enough for AFL. Pass

This beer is crap. Now that's cynicism! (because all beer is good). To sum up, I like beer

I like the idea of a Lingerie League before the match . As long as the chicks are all hotties. We dont want it to turn into some unsightly spectacle .

Cook not up to Casey and unlikely ever to be AFL standard. Tough calls are being made. Bad pick. Gysberts no tank, no pace. Fitz will be a judgement call. The footy dept know best. Mission and Neeld come from high standard clubs and know what the benchmarks are.

Heres a nice & brief, easy read. > http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/04/15/the-1965-dismissal-of-norm-smith/

Played half a game of football this year.

Simple. the thread was meant to be a bout people who are intersted in Re building "Ology... Not about if you thought it shouldn't exist. It was a message looking for support from interested parties. It wasn't looking for your cold water. The thread ended up being flooded by chat, rather than interested parties adding they're contact availabilities.

Enjoy life and regain our sanity OD B)

Yeah, and Scully hasn't spoken to GWS...

The 'within season' thing is a huge caveat for me. In my mind, players should be loyal to their clubs for 11 months of the year and loyal to themselves in October. Geelong shouldn't have done it, and Boak shouldn't have agreed.

I am more surprised that Geelong did what they did. I am not that comfortable with it. Teams meeting with opposition players in season with players in tow. Bad taste.

This is getting ridiculous. So the reining B&F winner, experienced, big bodied, good leader, still relatively young, should be let go of because he has been badly out of form this year? And us anonymous hacks somehow know better than the FD! And I thought only Tigers supporters ate their own!

Moloney was B&F in 2011, then as he has had a down period, the answer is "Delisted". Get a grip. Moloney is hard at the footy, physically mature (which is much more than others), and has the skills and smarts to be a key midfielder going forward. Kicks the ball 50+. Wake up. Davey, Green, Bennell, Bate, Spencer, Petterd, Jetta & a few others would have to go first.

Guys get dropped. He is in horrible form but I would like him to stick around. I think he will be here next year.

I disagree, and have faith in Liam's ability to continue performing for the MFC once his troubles in Alice are sorted.

Toumpas needs surgery on his hip: http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/140230/default.aspx I'd be surprised if it's not the sort of thing that's affected his burst speed, because he is known for having good pace. Without injury worries I rate him top 3, but I'd want to be convinced that the hip wont cause problems in the future before spending pick 3. Unfortunate for him (and recruiters) that he wont be able to play out the season. With Wines, I'd like to see what his 20m sprint times are like, because I don't know how quick he is on the burst/spread. It's the difference between him going top 5 or in the 8-15 range for mine. I hadn't seen Stringer before yesterday, and I still need to see more to decide where he sits. Still looks to be building into it after the broken leg. I hope he can finish the TAC Cup season strongly.

High draft picks haven't worked - debate the reasons elsewhere: poor picks, poor development, poor culture, poor leadership on and off field? What we need is to regain a winning culture -- and the best way to do that is to start winning, aiming to win every game by as big a margin as possible. Play 100 per cent for 100 minutes, or as Barassi says 6000 seconds. No respite for our players nor their opponents.