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Look, I agree with you, but if you take that hope away from me I've got absolutely nothing.

It was a 10 goal defeat masquerading as a 4 goal defeat. Does any club in the league have slower or dumber footballers than the MFC ? They were terrible all over the ground. A few genuine A grade mids will make the world of difference to this club over the next few years.

What the [censored] is the point of a video review system if they're just going to make the wrong decision anyway? #burndownaflhouse

Using Trengove v Dangerfield as a guide, he will get approximately 4,136 weeks.

Which one of Tapscotts 4 kicks did you enjoy the most?

I'd read a bit about him on forums leading up to the championships, so kept an eye on him, but was a little underwhelmed. He looks a solid player, but he didn't seem to have any stand-out attributes. That said, I agree that a sample of only a couple of games isn't nearly enough. You look at Toumpas and he just reeks of class. He's already got a strong body, his endurance is excellent, he reads the play well, he has good outside speed, he moves with the type of poise that the classy players have, and he's really smart with his decision making. That kick into the forward 50 where he made his teammate run forward to a hole, as opposed to kicking it to where he was, told you that he makes great decisions under pressure. Toumpas will play virtually all of 2013 as a 19 year old, where as Trengove played his entire first year as an 18 year old. Toumpas would impact our side immediately. Imagine Toumpas, Stringer, Mayes and Viney walking into the club over summer. Or if we could trade for Boak using pick 12/13 you may have Toumpas, Stringer, Boak and Viney wandering through the door. You start changing your club's on-field prospects immediately.

Neeld has had 11 players missing every week. The skills (71% DE cf Richmond's 69%) were bad but are actually improving. I notice the Neeld knockers run and hide their thoughts on the odd winning occasion. When this team is going places in 2 - 3 years you'll all be clambouring on Neeld's wagon. Richmond have had 4 years of Hardwick and still aren't much. We'll be better after 4 years of MN. Collingwood had 10 years under MM, and Buck's hasn't changed the way they play much. 4 years ago everyone said WCE were rubbish and the chemist should be sacked. I'm glad none of you weak (censored) weren't around me 40 years ago backing me up.

Hate to say it, but Spencil looked 1000 times better today than last week. Tried hard, got in front, tacked hard. Considering how shite we were, he showed more effort than many on the list. Still has the appearance and coordination of a startled giraffe on the run. Can't see him making the cut. Not wanting to compare, but Big Cox's last quarter against the Roos shows how a champion ruck can win a game on his own, just about. Spencil would do well to watch that tape.

Poor buggers.

Absolutely insipid. That "chase" from Bennell through the middle of the ground was pathetic. 1st quarter and he's giving it the token jog.

So you thought Spencer's 8 possies 11 hitouts and no goals were better than Martin's 18 possies 20 hitouts and 2 goals?

I'm just about ready for them to pack it in and out us all out of our misery. When you continually see players give half hearted chases/tackles/efforts and continually see players who are paid professionals butcher the ball under no pressure, handball to players under pressure and kick it on top of teammates heads instead of to their advantage you just think what's the bloody point? That's without even mentioning the clearances. I've had enough of this utter rubbish and I don't care that Clark and Jamar weren't playing either that is no excuse. I don't even hold out any hope that we can get some decent players in through the draft look at Trengove, Watts and Morton all high draft picks but it means absolutely nothing if you can't develop them into A-grade players. So you can stick your Stringer/Toumpas/Wines/Viney talk because I want to see players do it once they're wearing an MFC jumper not when their still playing juniors FFS.

I'm going to trial a new method of frustration management: turning the TV off and spending time with my family instead. Never done it before so it'll be interesting.

What odds Eddie will "declare war on the MRP" if he gets 4 or more. He'll have their jobs he will. Read my mind TSFKA

You make a very good point. It is folly to assume the same approach will bear anything other than the same results. The only thing I might say to allay your fears is that the way Neeld is teaching us to play is different than the way Bailey taught us to play. Although we may have similar performance records, the statistics show that we are a significantly better contested football side than we ever were in Bailey's tenure. It is commonly understood that winning contested ball is a vital part of winning finals, and that in finals, kicking skills typically fall away considerably as the pressure mounts.While I'm concerned that our kicking is very poor, I'm comforted by the fact that the one aspect of the game that is held to be most vital (contested ball) is being well-looked after under Neeld's regime. Only further evidence will be able to tell whether we will continue to develop in the areas we need to.

Do you think if they replayed our matches at 4x speed and played some Benny Hill music we could make some money off DVD sales?

The have we improved question can be answered either way. Do I believe that we are building a way of playing and a level of accountability and discipline that is going to make us better in the long term? Yes Do I believe that we were further advanced with our old game plan than we are with our new game plan - meaning we played better last year? Yes Do I believe we were ever going anywhere with Bailey and his game style? No Do I believe we will with Neeld? Yes, absolutely. Is whether that is improvement, I don't know, but I can see more non-negotiables, more physicality and more accountability than before. I just think we are in the early stages of changing our way of playing, thinking, defending and moving the ball.

We've got some problems, the least of which is that we got within 10 goals today. That just tells me the Tigers have a long way to go. I've tried hard to defend Neeld but at some point the genuine lack of faith that his playing group inspires is starting to wear me down. If we don't have the cattle then come up with a way to compete. Roos and Lyon did it for years. I'm not asking for pretty, I'm just asking for respect and commitment. I'd hate to be looking for sponsors and members next year. We have shown nothing to inspire confidence and I think we might lose a few blokes over the off season who are sick of not competing. At what point do we stop the BS about building for a 'premiership window' and just aim for respect and to be taken seriously? I'm at that point today. I hate going to the footy and knowing the games over after 10 minutes.

I don't know how many are actually calling for a sacking, but I'm pretty worried by the fact we look just as disorganized after 15 rounds than we did at the start of the year.

I find it hard to fathom those calling for Neeld's head. He cannot be held responsible for a group of players who can't execute the most basic skills of the game. The game plan is impossible to implement if the majority of the team find it hard to hit a target from 20 metres away. And this is not his list, so he can't be blamed for the fact that these blokes are in the side in the first place. Whenever you replace a coach, unless you are in premiership contention and are just refreshing like Nathan Buckley, you have to be willing to give them 3 years at least to mould the list with players that suit his play and can execute his plan. Do any of you numb nuts think if Mick Malthouse was sitting in the box Rohan Bail would be all of a sudden hitting targets left, right and centre.

I can't believe the mild reaction. We essentially lost by 12-15 goals today. Yes we didn't 'give up', but since when is that not a given? We are one of the most highly disorganized and poorly skilled teams I have ever seen. Also the umpires today should be taken out the back and kicked in the balls. Pathetic display!

100% spot on

We are a crap football team..

That boundary umpire should be suspended.

Exactly not fair to compare them, lets try Cox and Jamar and give Jamar a hard time instead

This umpiring in B.S.

Maric might, he'd know a bit about our bench.

I'm off to get a plaque made...

The beauty of having three picks in the first 12 -13 is alot of clubs will not be able to risk a pick on a Stringer (returning from injury), Menzel (injury prone), Plowman (missed U18 champs) or Garlett (questionable attitude) when they only have one dart to throw. Assuming Viney goes second round and we retain all three picks give me Toumpas (clearly the best on what I saw), one of Mayes, Martin (MD), Wines, O'Rourke and then one of the questionables with our third.

Lol... You really work hard at trying to convince people you're smart and always right don't you Jose? Time better spent learning to listen instead of talking I would think.

And Green's still a chance to play next week . . .

Brocky playing well tonight.

Lovely sentiments. Should we have you on suicide watch when Dunn plays his 100th?

Wash your mouth out.EDIT :He didn't get them anything.

I've read elsewhere that the knock on Stringer is his pace. If so I may have to reconsider may recently acquired manlove for him, because there's very few slow players that dominate AFL footy. Yesterday was the first time I'd seen him play and he looked like a smart inside beast, but one showing on tv isn't enough to go on. He has been injured. Someone else said his pace is ok. I'll watch his 20 metre sprint test with interest at the combine, Nathan Wright also looked really good. As Axis mentioned Toumpas doesn't look dynamic, but he screams 250 game pro. Also, he's having hip surgery in two weeks, so that may be impacting his burst speed. Picks 3 and 4 look like they'll deliver a couple of quality players. It's a shame I'm once again excited by the upcoming draft.

Of itself, a torn labrum would not affect his speed but there are circumstances where it would such as if he feels pain or simply, the psychological aspect of fearing possible pain or additional damage. If the player did have good speed and/or endurance prior to the injury then it's reasonably certain that he will not lose these attributes once he recovers from surgery. Based on that I would not put him in the same category as Jack Trengove who also appears of late to be hampered by injury and who is not known anyway for his pace but has good endurance (like his sister who is an Olympic distance runner). Even with his injury, Toumpas appears to have better pace. However, in SA he is, like Trengove, renowned for his leadership capability.

Are caddy or prestia really what we need? Seems like we have plenty of one speeded inside/ semi inside midfielders and I think we could be better served drafting these types rather than settling for what other clubs would be willing to let go, just look at the swans 2009 draft: Pick 6 Gary Rohan Pick 14 Lewis jetta Pick 55 Trent Dennis-lane Fair enough Rohan did his ankle but look at what an injection of speed has done to the team we smashed by something like 14goals

You have summed up his career very well 'UTAH'. Sadly, he is a bit of a whipping boy for some on this forum. Not me however as I like his persistence and gutsy play. Have a good one tomorrow Matty.

Outside runner with pace ... Jimmy Toumpas (question mark is his hip injury) - if he has no probs, then obvious #3 pick Inside mid ball accumulator ... Oliver Wines (speed over 5 metres is key) Strong forward with midfield function (like a Pavlich model) ... Jake Stringer - how he ends TAC cup season. on 2010, under 16's, he is #1 material. Right now, not top 20 but watch in next 8-10 weeks. This draft is CRITICAL to our FUTURE. No pressure

No way, this type of hit was never considered a well executed shirt front. Simpson was in the air marking the ball and Wellingham made no effort to mark or hit the ball away. Gone and would have been in the 80's

Every now and again someone will bump an ancient thread like this one and it'll remind me of posters who used to be around a bit then just disappeared. Wonder what happened to demonfanjezza? Or Adzman - he was one of the originals that came across from the old site back in 2005 (used to be "Wrathchildlover")? I know deanox is around, just doesn't post anywhere near as much these days. Not sure how anyone can ever shed their addiction for this site TBH.

exactly what I was thinking

Like your point of view. It's your avatar that I find unsettling though........

Many of the comments above refer to the fact that Junior has not experienced a premieship or come from a successful side - that is fair enough. However, what we have is a bloke of limited natural ability who has made the most of his talents to play 250 + games of footy and earn respect everywhere. I reckon that is just the determination and desparation that our players need to learn.

I am concerned by reports that we're actively looking to trade for other clubs players; and I have heard that Neeld doesn't want to draft too many young players as he thinks the game is getting harder and harder for young players, but I'll be terribly disappointed if we give up picks 3 or 4. I reckon Viney will be drafted with our second round pick and I'd rather young gun mids at 3 and 4 than Boak. Like you, I just haven't seen enough of Toumpas, etc, but my gut tells me that I'd rather Toumpas than Boak. Martin looks like he'll be a freak, but I wouldn't want to give up 3 or 4 for him a year early. There will always be supporters that worry about getting another Morton at 4, but I don't roll like that. I assume we'll get it right and the top end talent in this draft looks terrific, even if the idea of it being a superdraft is being watered down. Having the choice of the entire field after the first two picks appeals greatly. I want A graders. Boak may become one, but right now he's a B grader and I find it unfathomable having now watched a few games of the champs that we'd give up pick 4 on a player that's presently B grade. I'd just about give up.

I can't wait for the return of Jordan Gysberts!!

I will be gutted if they trade pick 4. Tbh, I don't think they're that stupid.

Just because anyone says or infers anything means didly. its all talk and such. No one is held to anything . Any club can do what it likes on the day and Thats the only time anything out of a club official is actually accountable . Until then believe nothing.Its all a game within a game

Bradley...... Seriously....... I'd rather miller back if we are going down the path of recruiting hack forwards, at least he brings Mia along with him.

Kennett had an expiry date at the Hawks, if only McGuire had one at the Pies.