Just by going off statistics and what we've seen so far, we're clearly the worst 4th qtr team which can often point to fitness. I wonder if the re-arrangement of our training sessions this year is contributing to this? Why are we one of the few teams the AFL that does this? I assume it got changed after the review as it was different to last year.

"The Dees have been deploying a different lead-in to games than many clubs, holding a main training session two days out from matches, then a captain's run the day before games. Across the competition most clubs hold their main training session, then have a day off, then their captain's run the day before matches."

Anyone have any insight as to why we've changed things around this year?

Edited April 7Apr 7 by At the break of Gawn

6 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Just by going off statistics and what we've seen so far, we're clearly the worst 4th qtr team which can often point to fitness. I wonder if the re-arrangement of our training sessions this year is contributing to this? Why are we one of the few teams the AFL that does this? I assume it got changed after the review as it was different to last year.

"The Dees have been deploying a different lead-in to games than many clubs, holding a main training session two days out from matches, then a captain's run the day before games. Across the competition most clubs hold their main training session, then have a day off, then their captain's run the day before matches."

Anyone have any insight as to why we've changed things around this year?

Just one of the numerous things that needs looking at.

But when you play a game that allows 150 uncontested marks to the opposition that means our players are chasing tail all day. That is incredibly tiring

Geelong denied us the ball and we were forced to defend all night.

When we finally get the ball back we are knackered.

We don't play well against teams that move the ball around. And to me it seems we are very reluctant to switch - something we did a lot in pre season. Switching means a lot of running to space to allow the kicker an outlet. On the rare occasion we switch the play kinda stops because we don't run hard enough to provide an outlet

Our pressure rating has been terrible meaning we aren't forcing opp'n teams to make mistakes/turnovers.

When we do get a t/o we are not capitalising on it because we have such an outnumbered forward line.

Our coach refuses to change the setup despite the entire AFL industry calling him out. Maybe he's a genius and it will come good but I doubt it.

He stubbornly sticks with the way he wants us to play regardless of what the opp'n does.

A Geelong player even said that in an interview I heard. 'We knew if we controlled the ball an opening would come up because they don't pressure us' (I am paraphrasing but that was the essence of what he said

Interesting, for as long as we’ve had Goody the main sesh has always been 3 days before a game, not two.

The age article this refers too was implying that fitness is not the issue, more that the contest central game that both Melbourne and Carlton play is a slog that leaves you exhausted at the end of a game. In addition, it doesn't match with the fast, handball central game that is being played by other teams.

18 minutes ago, Flowergirl said:

The age article this refers too was implying that fitness is not the issue, more that the contest central game that both Melbourne and Carlton play is a slog that leaves you exhausted at the end of a game. In addition, it doesn't match with the fast, handball central game that is being played by other teams.

This was an AFL.com.au article, if I recall, our fitness also looked off last year.

19 minutes ago, Flowergirl said:

The age article this refers too was implying that fitness is not the issue, more that the contest central game that both Melbourne and Carlton play is a slog that leaves you exhausted at the end of a game. In addition, it doesn't match with the fast, handball central game that is being played by other teams.

I haven't read the article, but if that's an accurate summary they're wrong.

Fitness is def an issue for us - it's a major worry.

I wish the cause of our fade outs was because of our contest, pressure and how hard at it we have been.

We have been woeful in those aspects of the game (which by the by are acritical for all teams no matter what their method) in the last two matches and whilst out contest and pressure were good in round one the Giants ran over the top of us despite being just as hard at it.

And in case the article's author hasn't got the memo we ARE move away from the model that won and are trying to implement the fast, handball central game that is being played by other teams.

And yet to win a tackle count in a game this season.

Pup Brown 28 tackles in 3 games for Casey....

3 minutes ago, binman said:

I haven't read the article, but if that's an accurate summary they're wrong.

Fitness is def an issue for us - it's a major worry.

I wish the cause of our fade outs was because of our contest, pressure and how hard at it we have been.

We have been woeful in those aspects of the game (which by the by are acritical for all teams no matter what their method) in the last two matches and whilst out contest and pressure were good in round one the Giants ran over the top of us despite being just as hard at it.

And in case the article's author hasn't got the memo we ARE move away from the model that won and are trying to implement the fast, handball central game that is being played by other teams.

We keep saying we're moving to this fast transition football but then watch us time and again kick it long to a contest. We also ignored players in the corridor all night. I'm not convinced the players even know what it is they're supposed to be doing. We've got senior players clearly playing as individuals. If The Brand was serious about us improving he'd be driving the change, sorry but I see a petulant child more than I see an experienced leader of men. I'm shocked how bad we are this year. Bar Chandler there's not a player that has improved on their previous best, That's a terrible indictment. If it turns out we're also not fit enough then we are truly cooked. I still think it's the way we play that's killing us but maybe it's fitness as well.

Edited April 7Apr 7 by Roost it far

2 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

We keep saying we're moving to this fast transition football but then watch us time and again kick it long to a contest. We also ignored players in the corridor all night. I'm not convinced the players even know what it is they're supposed to be doing. We've got senior players clearly playing as individuals. If The Brand was serious about us improving he'd be driving the change, sorry but I see a petulant child more than I see an experienced leader of men. I'm shocked how bad we are this year. Bar Chandler there's not a player that has improved on their previous best, That's a terrible indictment. If it turns out we're also not fit enough then we are truly cooked. I still think it's the way we play that's killing us but maybe it's fitness as well.

Q4s are either 'giving up' or 'running out legs'. Which do you prefer?

36 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Q4s are either 'giving up' or 'running out legs'. Which do you prefer?

We’re not giving up we just don’t play with any fluidity or flair, we’re grinding. Playing the way we are would wear even the fittest sides out, out least that’s my hope. For if we actually aren’t fit enough then seriously, wtf!!

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

if we actually aren’t fit enough then seriously, wtf!!

Surely Goodwin needs to go back and change the training schedule based on these results though? Maybe it was player driven to change it this way, but it makes no sense to me that you'd do your main training session 2 days before a game. Absolute madness.

I can't believe in all the threads I have read in the first 4 rounds no one has called out Selwyn Griffiths for the way we have presented ourselves in 2025.

In each year our fitness levels have declined by 2 or 3 percent from 2021 and this is where we find ourselves.

Chasing tail, unable to close down and pressure in the right areas of the ground and playing an outdated brand of footy.

We look weak, slow and have lost our power.

15 hours ago, jnrmac said:

But when you play a game that allows 150 uncontested marks to the opposition that means our players are chasing tail all day. That is incredibly tiring

Geelong denied us the ball and we were forced to defend all night.

When we finally get the ball back we are knackered.

We don't play well against teams that move the ball around. And to me it seems we are very reluctant to switch - something we did a lot in pre season. Switching means a lot of running to space to allow the kicker an outlet. On the rare occasion we switch the play kinda stops because we don't run hard enough to provide an outlet

Our pressure rating has been terrible meaning we aren't forcing opp'n teams to make mistakes/turnovers.

When we do get a t/o we are not capitalising on it because we have such an outnumbered forward line.

Our coach refuses to change the setup despite the entire AFL industry calling him out. Maybe he's a genius and it will come good but I doubt it.

He stubbornly sticks with the way he wants us to play regardless of what the opp'n does.

A Geelong player even said that in an interview I heard. 'We knew if we controlled the ball an opening would come up because they don't pressure us' (I am paraphrasing but that was the essence of what he said

Fantastic post ..

Highlighting all of our brilliance.

We're our own worst enemy.

On 07/04/2025 at 15:35, At the break of Gawn said:

Just by going off statistics and what we've seen so far, we're clearly the worst 4th qtr team which can often point to fitness. I wonder if the re-arrangement of our training sessions this year is contributing to this? Why are we one of the few teams the AFL that does this? I assume it got changed after the review as it was different to last year.

"The Dees have been deploying a different lead-in to games than many clubs, holding a main training session two days out from matches, then a captain's run the day before games. Across the competition most clubs hold their main training session, then have a day off, then their captain's run the day before matches."

Anyone have any insight as to why we've changed things around this year?

Maybe the fitness team have paced us to be at our best late September?? 🙄🙄🙄

On 07/04/2025 at 16:41, Roost it far said:

We keep saying we're moving to this fast transition football but then watch us time and again kick it long to a contest. We also ignored players in the corridor all night. I'm not convinced the players even know what it is they're supposed to be doing. We've got senior players clearly playing as individuals. If The Brand was serious about us improving he'd be driving the change, sorry but I see a petulant child more than I see an experienced leader of men. I'm shocked how bad we are this year. Bar Chandler there's not a player that has improved on their previous best, That's a terrible indictment. If it turns out we're also not fit enough then we are truly cooked. I still think it's the way we play that's killing us but maybe it's fitness as well.

The players being in two minds about where to move the ball says to me they're getting conflicting information rather than straightforward instructions. Was similar under Neeld, we'd always hear about how the players were still learning the gameplan. I think it's [censored], it's footy not rocket surgery. Keep it simple so players know what they're doing and what to expect from their teammates.

On 07/04/2025 at 23:02, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

I can't believe in all the threads I have read in the first 4 rounds no one has called out Selwyn Griffiths for the way we have presented ourselves in 2025.

In each year our fitness levels have declined by 2 or 3 percent from 2021 and this is where we find ourselves.

Chasing tail, unable to close down and pressure in the right areas of the ground and playing an outdated brand of footy.

We look weak, slow and have lost our power.

Reckon the whole 'choose your own adventure' training regime deserves a bit of blame here.

On 07/04/2025 at 15:02, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

In each year our fitness levels have declined by 2 or 3 percent from 2021

You have figures to back that up?

23 minutes ago, bing181 said:

You have figures to back that up?

I reckon afltables.com would be a pretty good start

On 07/04/2025 at 16:37, dice said:

And yet to win a tackle count in a game this season.

Pup Brown 28 tackles in 3 games for Casey....

He should be straight in and have him play in a similar pocket role to Nibbler

His second half pressure & work rate against the Cats was superb.

On 07/04/2025 at 16:44, GS_1905 said:

Q4s are either 'giving up' or 'running out legs'. Which do you prefer?

Probably giving up. Unless we're 50% fitter than every other team for the last half or so of the year (and somehow the current alleged lack of fitness is in preparation for this) the current fitness won't change much till next year. Whereas technically if it's attitude it's possible that all turns around quickly.

The main session 2 days before a game is utter stupidity. Anyone who's been for a run will tell you DOMS is at its highest 48 hours afterwards. Not that I expect these guys to be too sore but that would definitely slow them down 48 hours later. They need 3 sleeps not 2!

On 07/04/2025 at 15:35, At the break of Gawn said:

Just by going off statistics and what we've seen so far, we're clearly the worst 4th qtr team which can often point to fitness. I wonder if the re-arrangement of our training sessions this year is contributing to this? Why are we one of the few teams the AFL that does this? I assume it got changed after the review as it was different to last year.

"The Dees have been deploying a different lead-in to games than many clubs, holding a main training session two days out from matches, then a captain's run the day before games. Across the competition most clubs hold their main training session, then have a day off, then their captain's run the day before matches."

Anyone have any insight as to why we've changed things around this year?

We have been well below AFL average (185) on the pressure front now since 2024. We occasionally reached that level or slightly above in some quarters but drop away badly in others.

Add to that our clearance issues and as Bin says, no game style will probably hold up or be very effective.

You'll be chasing tail all day.

I believe the clearance side has alot to do with the drop away of Viney & Max's involvements and form in terms of first use (extraction) in 2025 (so far).

Last year it was also impacted by the absence of Clarry (in a form and first us sense where we pretty much left extraction solely to Vines and to a lessor degree Max) and Tracc from Rnd 12.

We would have also expected Kolt and Rivers to be somewhat involved with first use assists this season but alas, Kolt hasn't played yet and Rivers was moved back to cover the loss of McVee.

How effecrive we are (disposal efficiency) from clearances probably has deteriorated (from an already low base) with the drop in form of Viney from 2024 (player Rating down 27% so far on average this season) and the fact we haven't had Kozzy in the middle for the first three rounds. But regardless it was probably never that good even with Kozzy there in 24.

Add the woeful forward line output to the big drop in Viney & Tracc's output (Tracc's Player Rating -29% vs 2024 average) and to a lessor extent Max (-14% vs 2024). Plus Kozzy only returning last week and that will help to explain our clearance / efficiency and conversion woes somewhat.

Of course then there are our poor methods of transition off HB and connection coming inside. Highlighted by so many against the Cats.

We look like a poor VFL team trying to play AFL with alot of amateurish moments. Such a hard watch.

Add to all that the fact that we just mostly guard grass, do that pretty poorly as well, and allow oppos to so easily move the ball through our zones now and you have a recipe for a potential wooden spoon looming if not addressed / rectified quickly.

On 07/04/2025 at 16:33, binman said:

I haven't read the article, but if that's an accurate summary they're wrong.

Fitness is def an issue for us - it's a major worry.

I wish the cause of our fade outs was because of our contest, pressure and how hard at it we have been.

We have been woeful in those aspects of the game (which by the by are acritical for all teams no matter what their method) in the last two matches and whilst out contest and pressure were good in round one the Giants ran over the top of us despite being just as hard at it.

And in case the article's author hasn't got the memo we ARE move away from the model that won and are trying to implement the fast, handball central game that is being played by other teams.

If that is truly the case (moving to slick handball side and/or more use of handball?) then we were (are) coming from a long way back as i'm pretty sure we were rated the least accurate team by hand (handball efficiency) at one point during mid to latish season in 2024.

At the same time i believe Freo were rated No.1 in terms of HB efficiency.

In the first four matches this year, Freo are the slowest team in terms of retaining the ball prior to giving a handball off, but they are also the most direct and efficient.

That is, they are gaining the most yards forward (meters gained) on average vs any team so far with each handball. Mostly via forward handballs of course.

Not dissimilar to Geelong's premiership year in 22 if my memory serves me correctly?

Edited April 8Apr 8 by Demon Dynasty

On 07/04/2025 at 15:35, At the break of Gawn said:

Just by going off statistics and what we've seen so far, we're clearly the worst 4th qtr team which can often point to fitness. I wonder if the re-arrangement of our training sessions this year is contributing to this? Why are we one of the few teams the AFL that does this? I assume it got changed after the review as it was different to last year.

"The Dees have been deploying a different lead-in to games than many clubs, holding a main training session two days out from matches, then a captain's run the day before games. Across the competition most clubs hold their main training session, then have a day off, then their captain's run the day before matches."

Anyone have any insight as to why we've changed things around this year?

Thank you for asking this question ATBOG because it was the first thing I thought after Friday night. How can a team, historically very fit and able to run out games, allow so many uncontested possessions and marks on a smaller ground?

The gameplan is being pointed to and fair enough, but this wouldn't be the first time in history that a team as screwed up their fitness preparations.

Not saying it's the reason for our poor form but I think all areas need to be questioned.

47 minutes ago, layzie said:

Thank you for asking this question ATBOG because it was the first thing I thought after Friday night. How can a team, historically very fit and able to run out games, allow so many uncontested possessions and marks on a smaller ground?

The gameplan is being pointed to and fair enough, but this wouldn't be the first time in history that a team as screwed up their fitness preparations.

Not saying it's the reason for our poor form but I think all areas need to be questioned.

I'm not convinced it is fitness.

As the captain (surprisingly) admitted: Our spirit was broken (and to me looks like it still is). When the spirit is broken some players will unconsciously ease back on effort.

This spreads to other players and before we know it they drop easy marks, don't run hard enough for teammates, don't chase with intent, find it easier to bomb the ball than try and pinpoint a short kick or HB, don't show care to a struggling teammate etc etc. All of these have been ever present the last 3 weeks and more obvious live at the games.

So what looks like lack of fitness could easily be disenchantment and lack of effort.