In our build up to the Premiership, the Dees recruited strongly. The recruits were players who playing AFL (not VFL) and at the standard. We were attracting players who either came home to Victoria or saw opportunities.

Hibberd

Lewis

Melksham

May

Lever

Langdon

Brown

All were players who were regulars.

But since 2021 premiership… VFL grade only

Dunstan

Hunter

Schache

Billings

McAdam

Fullarton

Sharp

Campbell

Enough evidence!!!

As we watch the Hawks rise, they followed the recruiting blueprint. Don’t bring in players who are below par. Attract the players who are at the standard and make your team better.

Memo. Cc Tim Lamb, Simon Goodwin.

I can’t think of any player we have traded in that’s improved our team since the flag.

Maybe I'm in the minority but guys like Hunter, Billings, Sharp were worth the punt when you consider how little we pay/paid for them, maybe errors in hindsight but if all you're risking is a 3rd or 4th rounder in a trade then sobeit

McAdam & Grundy were major errors, not sure how we ended up paying a 2nd rounder for McAdam but whatever. I reckon Henderson his SSP replacement is actually a player so maybe there's a silver lining.

Campbell & Dunstan were fine as depth options we got for free.

Not being in the market for Chol or Massimo d'Ambrosio recently was something I never really understood. Chol is far from perfect but would have been handy at least for the medium term. MDA would have been perfect but I acknowledge he didn't really have many clubs beyond Hawthorn keen on him.

Jason Taylor has carried us these last few years. Lindsay, Langford, Windsor, Tholstrup should all be long term players - whether Kolt was worth trading up for is debatable at this point but he should be handy at worst.

It might sound weird but our biggest issue has been not taking 2nd/3rd round picks to the draft most years so we could refresh the list a bit more aggressively and grab a more mixed group of players. Again you can't have it both ways though as you'd probably miss out on Lindsay last year if we took this approach.

Edited April 5Apr 5 by adonski

At our best we had big BBB playing well as a legitimate target and lead up very tall forward. He made it easier for others.

After he finished up we tried Petty up forward and for various reasons including injury, lack of form, confidence it just did not work.

I think that huge quality KPF is what we lack.

Whether JVR, Jeffo or Turner can evolve into that role?

They do not grow on trees.

@adonski Not bemoaning our recruiting by JT through the draft. It was the recruiting of recycling failed players what was the issue. I guess we tried to go back to our successful ways with getting in Dan Houston that ended as a clusterf@&@k.

What happened?

All the earlier names you mentioned were long term lures by Mahoney and Todd Viney.

All those since the flag are Tim Lamb.

31 minutes ago, adonski said:

Maybe I'm in the minority but guys like Hunter, Billings, Sharp were worth the punt when you consider how little we pay/paid for them, maybe errors in hindsight but if all you're risking is a 3rd or 4th rounder in a trade then sobeit

McAdam & Grundy were major errors, not sure how we ended up paying a 2nd rounder for McAdam but whatever. I reckon Henderson his SSP replacement is actually a player so maybe there's a silver lining.

Campbell & Dunstan were fine as depth options we got for free.

Not being in the market for Chol or Massimo d'Ambrosio recently was something I never really understood. Chol is far from perfect but would have been handy at least for the medium term. MDA would have been perfect but I acknowledge he didn't really have many clubs beyond Hawthorn keen on him.

Jason Taylor has carried us these last few years. Lindsay, Langford, Windsor, Tholstrup should all be long term players - whether Kolt was worth trading up for is debatable at this point but he should be handy at worst.

It might sound weird but our biggest issue has been not taking 2nd/3rd round picks to the draft most years so we could refresh the list a bit more aggressively and grab a more mixed group of players. Again you can't have it both ways though as you'd probably miss out on Lindsay last year if we took this approach.

I can't believe we weren't in the discussion for Chol, exactly what we needed a big guy who can play forward to help relieve the pressure on JVR and give Max a chop out

Edited April 5Apr 5 by Dr. Gonzo

We kept our draft picks for JVR, Jefferson, Windsor, Tholstrup, Langford and Lindsay. On top of this we paid our stars big money as any club would have done. You can’t do either of these things and recruit the big names you seem to think were available. You seem to conveniently forget this. Our recruiting has been good and our drafting has been for stop gaps.

Edited April 5Apr 5 by Roost it far

1 minute ago, Roost it far said:

We kept our draft picks for JVR, Jefferson, Windsor, Tholstrup, Langford and Lindsay. On top of this we paid our stars big money as any club would have done. You can’t do either of these things and recruit the big names you seem to think were available. You seem to conveniently forget this. Our recruiting has been good and our drafting has been for stop gaps.

Our trading of Senior Players has been deplorable.

Some didn’t even play Senior Football

Definitely a big part of our present situation

Cannot knock our drafting.

Jason Taylor does a brilliant job.

However, since our Premiership in 2021 we have definitely not traded very well for established AFL players.

Brodie Grundy was unfortunately a massive mistake. At the time, I thought it would work. But many of us (including Simon Goodwin and the football department) were wrong.

In hindsight, we should have thrown the kitchen sink at luring Nick Larkey from the Kangaroos or another AFL tall forward who is in his prime at the end of 2021 or in 2022.

Would definitely consider giving Peter Wright from Essendon a call at the end of this season. But we shall see how the rest of 2025 unfolds.

Lamb can go

30 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

What happened?

All the earlier names you mentioned were long term lures by Mahoney and Todd Viney.

All those since the flag are Tim Lamb.

I stand to be corrected, but isn't Tim lamb in charge of the List, in respect of TPP and player contracts?

I understand It is JT and his Recruiting people, who are in charge of recruiting, being the selection of both draftees and traded in players.

Put simply, it is Lamb's job to keep players we want to keep and balance the books and it is Taylor's job to select players we go after.

hawks have followed our model and they haven't won a premiership doing it as yet

once that first clutch of players recruited 2017-2020 were part of a premiership, we had to keep the likes of oliver, petracca, brayshaw, as WELL as still paying significant contracts for may, lever, brown

let's see how hawks go with maintaining a red hot recruiting drive in the wake of a premiership

it MAY be easier as the tpp has gone up so much and they are an attractive destination; it may not

don't forget we came very close to recruiting cerra and houston since 2021, as well as bringing in grundy for a year before working out it wasn't going to work for us

recruiting and retention go hand in hand, but often robs peter to pay paul - the recruits we brought in that the op highlighted post-2021 premiership were not highly priced recruits but instead last chance saloon bargain basement types

we pivoted our recruiting to focus on the draft; since the premiership we've picked up 6 first round picks in 3 years

It is really dispiriting to see ANB, Bedford, Jordan and Jackson all thriving in other Clubs. Makes me sick.

Just now, chook fowler said:

It is really dispiriting to see ANB, Bedford, Jordan and Jackson all thriving in other Clubs. Makes me sick.

Even Hunt, Baker and Harmes would be handy.

Spot on failure I have been on this for the last 2 years our inability to attract quality free agents or trade when you compare what the last 3 premiers have brought in .. who’s responsible for this????

We lost Jackson, harms & AnB

3 below have been delisted 1 traded & rest list cloggers

Dunstan

Hunter

Schache

Grundy

Billings

McAdam

Fullarton

Sharp

Campbell

Edited April 5Apr 5 by Demonsone

Salary cap.

Draft-first strategy to accelerate a succession and minimise bottoming out.

Also, comparisons to Hawthorn are strait up onerous. They struggled along for five season after their pair of strait-sets exits.

4 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Spot on failure compare to what the last 3 premiers have brought in .. who’s responsible for this???? We lost Jackson, harms & AnB

Dunstan

Hunter

Schache

Grundy

Billings

McAdam

Fullarton

Sharp

Campbell

PTSD

2 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Salary cap.

Draft-first strategy to accelerate a succession and minimise bottoming out.

Also, comparisons to Hawthorn are strait up onerous. They struggled along for five season after their pair of strait-sets exits.

They also won three flags in a row before a pair of straight sets exits.

Edited April 5Apr 5 by Dr. Gonzo

5 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

PTSD

Not sure what this means but hey Swans, lions , pies & Cats are not bottoming out our cliff has arrived

Edited April 5Apr 5 by Demonsone

Ah yes hit the draft when you’re in a premiership window, re build the forward line through the draft when you’re in a premiership window, genius

18 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Also, comparisons to Hawthorn are strait up onerous. They struggled along for five season after their pair of strait-sets exits.

Spot on mate.

1 hour ago, adonski said:

Maybe I'm in the minority but guys like Hunter, Billings, Sharp were worth the punt when you consider how little we pay/paid for them, maybe errors in hindsight but if all you're risking is a 3rd or 4th rounder in a trade then sobeit

McAdam & Grundy were major errors, not sure how we ended up paying a 2nd rounder for McAdam but whatever. I reckon Henderson his SSP replacement is actually a player so maybe there's a silver lining.

Campbell & Dunstan were fine as depth options we got for free.

Not being in the market for Chol or Massimo d'Ambrosio recently was something I never really understood. Chol is far from perfect but would have been handy at least for the medium term. MDA would have been perfect but I acknowledge he didn't really have many clubs beyond Hawthorn keen on him.

Jason Taylor has carried us these last few years. Lindsay, Langford, Windsor, Tholstrup should all be long term players - whether Kolt was worth trading up for is debatable at this point but he should be handy at worst.

It might sound weird but our biggest issue has been not taking 2nd/3rd round picks to the draft most years so we could refresh the list a bit more aggressively and grab a more mixed group of players. Again you can't have it both ways though as you'd probably miss out on Lindsay last year if we took this approach.

Mate that's where the issue is. Stop being cheap, you are in the premiership window (were).

Throw the kitchen sink to bring that coveted KPF we so desperately needed.

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

In our build up to the Premiership, the Dees recruited strongly. The recruits were players who playing AFL (not VFL) and at the standard. We were attracting players who either came home to Victoria or saw opportunities.

Hibberd

Lewis

Melksham

May

Lever

Langdon

Brown

All were players who were regulars.

But since 2021 premiership… VFL grade only

Dunstan

Hunter

Schache

Billings

McAdam

Fullarton

Sharp

Campbell

Enough evidence!!!

As we watch the Hawks rise, they followed the recruiting blueprint. Don’t bring in players who are below par. Attract the players who are at the standard and make your team better.

Memo. Cc Tim Lamb, Simon Goodwin.

I think it’s over simplistic to look at it this way

When a team is on the up like us pre flag and hawks now you want to fill gaps and have salary cap. After success you generally have to work to keep your team together and players leave who don’t get a game like Jordon and Bedford.

Then you don’t have salary for big trades and most of the average trades since the flag are players ranked 30-42 on our list

The Hawks and Cats have obviously been good enough to get around this and we haven’t but looking at the two lists in isolation is unfair to the MFC i reckon

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

What happened?

All the earlier names you mentioned were long term lures by Mahoney and Todd Viney.

All those since the flag are Tim Lamb.

Another one that needs to go. Pathetic recruiting for a premiership side.