Clayton Oliver

[binman 42,468]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The problem with this theory is it discounts the actions of the main players, ie the club and it's players and their public statements.

If there was nothing to the Petracca rumours, they could've been shut down in a split second with one public statement.

If there was nothing to the Oliver rumours they could've been shut down in a split second with a public statement.

The fact neither Petracca or Oliver spoke publicly until it was clear there was going to be no trade done and the story had been allowed to feed on itself for a week or more (especially so in Petracca's case) speaks volumes.

I don't doubt what you're saying about the media and especially these types who feed off the rumours and off field drama. That doesn't necessarily make them wrong though. Another part I think youre discounting in this dialectic is the club supporter who won't hear a bad word about the club and passionately defends them to the hilt. This feeds into the cycle you've mentioned because it invites continued debate/discussion (for want of a better term) particularly on social media. So these mongers as you've coined them throw fresh meat into the water and watch the two opposing groups of supporters go at it.

My position is I don't trust these new age media types and find them all pretty cretinous. I also don't discount everything they say just because they are the ones reporting on it. I consider their story and then look to see how the club/the other actors in whatever the story is react to it. If they let the story fester and refuse to publicly deny allegations, especially when they are as charged as a clubs best player who is signed to a long term deal wanting out of the club, then I conclude that yeah, there probably is something to the story.

I love the club, I don't always love it's administrators. They are human and prone to faults or sometimes just not up to the job. That doesn't make them bad people it just means they are not the right people to lead the club (or maybe they were but have overstayed their welcome). When things stack up over a period of time then you have to ask questions and hope those who are in positions to actually hold them accountable do so. Supporters should demand success and part of that is not accepting management that has presided over poor governance, culture or whatever otherwise the club is doomed to fail.

Edit - also I was never worried about Oliver leaving, I was about Petracca but quickly realised no club would satisfy a trade. These may come to fruition in 12 months they may not, but at the end of the day my concern was more with WHY they wanted out of the club rather than whether they would actually leave.

Good points, well made.

But I think you have misinterpreted what I was saying.

I wasn't making a case for the clarry situation all being a media creation, or that the mongers are the big bad wolf.

As I have previously noted, I don't blame the mongers for their nonsense, I blame the collective us - they are simply giving us what we want. A demand and supply equation. 

I never suggested there wasn't some veracity to the monger's gossip, or their narrative was created out of whole cloth. 

And because i didn't mention the club or the players doesn't mean I don't think they have contributed to the palaver. They have. 

Like you, i don't discount what the mongers say. Their is clearly some stuff to sort out.

But what that stuff is, where the truth lies, who is the problem etc etc isn't the point I was making. 

My point was about the Heisenberg observer effect's ("the act of observing a system will influence what is being observed") relevance for how dramas in footy is covered.

Perhaps it is a stretch, but the analogy I'm making is the mongers 'observe' a scenario or situation, like clarry's, and influence what is being observed - ie create a narrative.

Pull together theories, supposition and hearsay and bind them with some facts (eg clarry met with the cats).

Footy fans 'observe' that narrative, but always want more (just look at how the tracc and clarry threads exploded and grew as evidence of that).

And the mongers, keen for clicks are happy to give then more - even if it means less facts and more supposition and 'my sources say'.

So the fans influence what is being observed. And that feedback loop keeps looping.

For example "Pert unilaterally shopped clarry". True or false? Who knows.

But a monger suggests it is true, fans accept it and amplify it all over the place. It soon becomes accepted as fact, when there is zero hard evidence it happened (which doesn't mean it didn't of course).

Conjecture has matatisised into fact. Perception is reality. 

"Oliver hurt he was shopped and wants out" True or false? Who knows.

But lets say its true - logic suggests all the white noise would have played a part in clarry wanting out.

The observers have influenced what is being observed.

And we end up with a story that feels much bigger than in reality it actually is. I mean the proof is in the pudding - the bloke is staying.

Edited October 21 by binman

[von 1,559]

8 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Weird that Oliver never shut it down during the trade period, even liking a post on instagram saying he was keen to go to Geelong next year.

Weird that the club never denied that we had shopped him around.

Seems like those sorts of things would be easily done if it was just a run of the mill meeting that almost all players do in their career.

Yet public statements by him and the club suggest he’s fine, we’re fine. Etc. Everyone’s within their rights to explore options without it meaning the sky is falling. Remember when Brayshaw was weighing up his future at contract time. The sky was falling then for a brief moment. Clubs, players, managers do play games with each other, clearly. Doesn’t necessarily add up to much. Dusty was nearly gone. Now he’s the greatest tiger ever. A lot of things happen within teams and groups of people who work together for long periods of time in high performance, stressful environments. You can spin it a million ways and read tea leaves and join dots and come up with theories forever. The truth is none of us know exactly what is what. Only those who seem to believe the media have complete theories that conveniently fit their prior narratives about us being a [censored] of an organisation. Meanwhile players keep signing on and extending. Players who are forced to leave for personal reasons seem genuinely upset that they have to move on from a club they love. It is possible that we have both some internal issues and are at the same time doing a lot right. Like every other club in the land. Recent history suggests we’ve done plenty right in my view. No other club can boast two top four finishes after winning a flag recently. despite that I still think we have some glaring holes/problems as well. I’d be looking at Sydney’s under performance in grand finals and  collingwoods lack of follow up and their genuinely poor culture that keeps rearing its ugly head if I was the media. Not to mention Carlton’s constant underachieving given their amazing list and potential. What about west coasts constant mismanagement and weirdly poor performance recently. Maybe when looking at the league as a whole without taking cues from Bottom feeding scumbags we are just fine. 

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,205]

6 minutes ago, von said:

Yet public statements by him and the club suggest he’s fine, we’re fine. Etc. Everyone’s within their rights to explore options without it meaning the sky is falling. Remember when Brayshaw was weighing up his future at contract time. The sky was falling then for a brief moment. Clubs, players, managers do play games with each other, clearly. Doesn’t necessarily add up to much. Dusty was nearly gone. Now he’s the greatest tiger ever. A lot of things happen within teams and groups of people who work together for long periods of time in high performance, stressful environments. You can spin it a million ways and read tea leaves and join dots and come up with theories forever. The truth is none of us know exactly what is what. Only those who seem to believe the media have complete theories that conveniently fit their prior narratives about us being a [censored] of an organisation. Meanwhile players keep signing on and extending. Players who are forced to leave for personal reasons seem genuinely upset that they have to move on from a club they love. It is possible that we have both some internal issues and are at the same time doing a lot right. Like every other club in the land. Recent history suggests we’ve done plenty right in my view. No other club can boast two top four finishes after winning a flag recently. despite that I still think we have some glaring holes/problems as well. I’d be looking at Sydney’s under performance in grand finals and  collingwoods lack of follow up and their genuinely poor culture that keeps rearing its ugly head if I was the media. Not to mention Carlton’s constant underachieving given their amazing list and potential. What about west coasts constant mismanagement and weirdly poor performance recently. Maybe when looking at the league as a whole without taking cues from Bottom feeding scumbags we are just fine. 

Wow ... that's a seriously long paragraph.

[von 1,559]

Just now, At Least I Saw a Flag said:

Wow ... that's a seriously long paragraph.

Thank you. It’s late. My editor went to bed. 

[58er 6,335]

4 hours ago, Willmoy1947 said:

Correct

But you asked proof  all along and all I did was give you the info to follow up. 
This in this case is prime evidence from the horses mouth ( albeit a summary of the events from his perspective). 

That you obviously seem to ignore this information is mind blowing. Yes it’s different from parts of what happened but let’s be honest a friendly meeting of some players on a farm ( without the Club dynamo Mackie I believe)  is about as social as Geelong could  provide. At least they didn’t tour the first 30 kms of the Great Ocean Rd and show him a potential property!!

Let’s all accept that Clarry is now in his most certain phase and has parked as experience his Geelong adventure for now. As a Club we need  to move heaven and earth to ensure that our results are as good as possible ( Finals and deep into even a Flag) are attained. One year is not going to alter the money equation drastically. 

Important to note that Harry Petty was going to leave for Adelaide this time of the year and excited a Club extension after all. Let’s look at all the resignings this year. While our results and some mistakes both Board and football have been made we have succeeded in retaining only ANB hs left for genuine reasons.

Grest credit for the list to stop 
And think about our 2022 to 2024 follow up and while injuries have played significantly other things like game plan, selection and mind set on not to lose rather than to win ( complete opposite of Lions philosophy) it is changeable thank goodness as is the players inner most thoughts towards 2025. 

[Kent 2,905]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The problem with this theory is it discounts the actions of the main players, ie the club and it's players and their public statements.

If there was nothing to the Petracca rumours, they could've been shut down in a split second with one public statement.

If there was nothing to the Oliver rumours they could've been shut down in a split second with a public statement.

The fact neither Petracca or Oliver spoke publicly until it was clear there was going to be no trade done and the story had been allowed to feed on itself for a week or more (especially so in Petracca's case) speaks volumes.

I don't doubt what you're saying about the media and especially these types who feed off the rumours and off field drama. That doesn't necessarily make them wrong though. Another part I think youre discounting in this dialectic is the club supporter who won't hear a bad word about the club and passionately defends them to the hilt. This feeds into the cycle you've mentioned because it invites continued debate/discussion (for want of a better term) particularly on social media. So these mongers as you've coined them throw fresh meat into the water and watch the two opposing groups of supporters go at it.

My position is I don't trust these new age media types and find them all pretty cretinous. I also don't discount everything they say just because they are the ones reporting on it. I consider their story and then look to see how the club/the other actors in whatever the story is react to it. If they let the story fester and refuse to publicly deny allegations, especially when they are as charged as a clubs best player who is signed to a long term deal wanting out of the club, then I conclude that yeah, there probably is something to the story.

I love the club, I don't always love it's administrators. They are human and prone to faults or sometimes just not up to the job. That doesn't make them bad people it just means they are not the right people to lead the club (or maybe they were but have overstayed their welcome). When things stack up over a period of time then you have to ask questions and hope those who are in positions to actually hold them accountable do so. Supporters should demand success and part of that is not accepting management that has presided over poor governance, culture or whatever otherwise the club is doomed to fail.

Edit - also I was never worried about Oliver leaving, I was about Petracca but quickly realised no club would satisfy a trade. These may come to fruition in 12 months they may not, but at the end of the day my concern was more with WHY they wanted out of the club rather than whether they would actually leave.

exactly Dr

We all want to know the why! I have seen no satisfactory explanation

Perhaps the reviews or future plays will go some way to answering that vexing question

[Roost it far 8,104]

Edited October 21 by Roost it far

[picket fence 16,987]

16 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Go back and read properly. This was prior to the Pert sourcing our trade talk they were happy with the club support around Oliver especially dating back to last year when he went off the rails and Goodwin gave him some tough love but also wrapped his full support around him.

So of course Clayton and his family were completely blind sided and were pretty disappointed with how it all played out and still are.

Can i just remind you that this all comes back on Gary Perts decision to bypass the likes of Green, Goodwin and Clayton's management which had caused tensions internally.

I'll be incredibly shocked if Pert is with us come round 1 next year. That part is based off my own personal opinion and nothing else.

Agree Daz PERT needs to go!

[Tracca 838]

16 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Go back and read properly. This was prior to the Pert sourcing our trade talk they were happy with the club support around Oliver especially dating back to last year when he went off the rails and Goodwin gave him some tough love but also wrapped his full support around him.

So of course Clayton and his family were completely blind sided and were pretty disappointed with how it all played out and still are.

Can i just remind you that this all comes back on Gary Perts decision to bypass the likes of Green, Goodwin and Clayton's management which had caused tensions internally.

I'll be incredibly shocked if Pert is with us come round 1 next year. That part is based off my own personal opinion and nothing else.

I’m sorry Dazzle but you sound like Tom Morris here. Please don’t report things as fact and as if you are in the know here.

 

at no stage has Clayton’s family become disillusioned with the club, both Steve and Michelle Oliver have said quite the contrary. There was no blindsiding at all, Clayton’s management teed up the meeting with Stanley.

 

understand you have heard this third hand from some random guy in Shepparton which is not really near Echuca, but you are reporting this as if it’s fact.

Your knowledge around draft and u18s is outstanding, but you’ve missed the mark here. 
 

Said it before but the personal connection I have with the family, your source couldn’t be more wrong.

 

pert on the other hand I believe will be gone.

 

 

 

Edited October 21 by Tracca

[layzie 33,724]

Scoop’s in the stairwell making some new medicine
Morris pounds the pavement, looking for acknowledgment
Robbo in a trench coat, smokes out, laid off
Breakfast show with Harf, not as good a pay-off

Lookout tweets, it’s something you did
God knows when but you’re losing all your friends
You better duck to the US looking for the new Trac
The man in a big branded cap in a big pig pen
Wants 11 million followers, you only got 10.

Oh Purple, Ralphy, Caroline and Cleary
Gather round the ink well, quality is hard to tell
Try hard, get barred, get volkaneo’d, get railed
Get sacked, get mail, join Seven if you fail

Lookout tweets, it’s something you did
God knows when but you’re losing all your friends
You better duck down the alleyway looking for an ambulance
Don’t wanna look dumb, walk and chew gum
Don’t follow leakers, or forget to feed the meter.
 

Edited October 21 by layzie

[von 1,559]

7 minutes ago, layzie said:

Scoop’s in the stairwell making some new medicine
Morris pounds the pavement, looking for acknowledgment
Robbo in a trench coat, smokes out, laid off
Breakfast show with Harf, not as good a pay-off

Lookout tweets, it’s something you did
God knows when but you’re losing all your friends
You better duck to the US looking for the new Trac
The man in a big branded cap in a big pig pen
Wants 11 million followers, you only got 10.

Oh Purple, Ralphy, Caroline and Cleary
Gather round the ink well, quality is hard to tell
Try hard, get barred, get volkaneo’d, get railed
Get sacked, get mail, join Seven if you fail

Lookout tweets, it’s something you did
God knows when but you’re losing all your friends
You better duck down the alleyway looking for an ambulance
Don’t wanna look dumb, walk and chew gum
Don’t follow leakers, or forget to feed the meter.
 

Come you masters of spin.

You that build all the headlines.

you that build the big stories.

you that hide behind walls.

you that hide behind desks.

i just want you to know i can see through your masks.

you that never done nothin

but build to destroy.

 

 

 

[Young Blood 2,569]

This thread is so boring

[Clintosaurus 7,808]

4 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

This thread is so boring

Just like all the other ones where the 'club is a shambles' group trade barbs with everyone else, but especially the ones they consider to be putting a halo on the club.

[Young Blood 2,569]

1 minute ago, Clintosaurus said:

Just like all the other ones where the 'club is a shambles' group trade barbs with everyone else, but especially the ones they consider to be putting a halo on the club.

Yeah I don't participate in this anymore. I get that these forums are meant for the overly dramatic types but some of the infighting these days on here is getting to Carlton/Filth territory.

[dazzledavey36 54,090]

2 hours ago, Tracca said:

I’m sorry Dazzle but you sound like Tom Morris here. Please don’t report things as fact and as if you are in the know here.

 

at no stage has Clayton’s family become disillusioned with the club, both Steve and Michelle Oliver have said quite the contrary. There was no blindsiding at all, Clayton’s management teed up the meeting with Stanley.

 

understand you have heard this third hand from some random guy in Shepparton which is not really near Echuca, but you are reporting this as if it’s fact.

Your knowledge around draft and u18s is outstanding, but you’ve missed the mark here. 
 

Said it before but the personal connection I have with the family, your source couldn’t be more wrong.

 

pert on the other hand I believe will be gone.

 

 

 

You do realise Echuca to Shepparton is only a 50 minute drive right? There are hundreds of people that commute to and from for work, kids that travel to each for school and then there are country footballers that are based in Shepp who play footy in Echuca and vice versa.

You're making out that it's a few hours drive from each other and that people don't communicate with others from different town. Couldn't be more further from the truth, especially country town all close ro vicinity as your mum would know.

Your personal connection is no different to mine. Your mum works with his mother. The guy I spoke to is a close friend of Steve but also golfing buddy also 

At the end of the day I am only passing on info as you are and I certainly don't doubt the information being provided.

[Willmoy1947 4,070]

2 hours ago, Tracca said:

I’m sorry Dazzle but you sound like Tom Morris here. Please don’t report things as fact and as if you are in the know here.

 

at no stage has Clayton’s family become disillusioned with the club, both Steve and Michelle Oliver have said quite the contrary. There was no blindsiding at all, Clayton’s management teed up the meeting with Stanley.

 

understand you have heard this third hand from some random guy in Shepparton which is not really near Echuca, but you are reporting this as if it’s fact.

Your knowledge around draft and u18s is outstanding, but you’ve missed the mark here. 
 

Said it before but the personal connection I have with the family, your source couldn’t be more wrong.

 

pert on the other hand I believe will be gone.

 

 

 

I believe this post above what has been stated before. I do not know Pert personally, but that should not matter.

The circles that he presumably moves in would entertain pushing relevance and listening to the AFL (Media) hierarchy.

We believed our players to a GF victory, We should continue the ride as MAX would want.

[layzie 33,724]

31 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You do realise Echuca to Shepparton is only a 50 minute drive right? There are hundreds of people that commute to and from for work, kids that travel to each for school and then there are country footballers that are based in Shepp who play footy in Echuca and vice versa.

You're making out that it's a few hours drive from each other and that people don't communicate with others from different town. Couldn't be more further from the truth, especially country town all close ro vicinity as your mum would know.

Your personal connection is no different to mine. Your mum works with his mother. The guy I spoke to is a close friend of Steve but also golfing buddy also 

At the end of the day I am only passing on info as you are and I certainly don't doubt the information being provided.

Probably one of the shorter trips in the Goulburn Valley League really. 

The thing that is bothering me about this based on both accounts is Pert's involvement. If the Oliver camp were happy with how MFC were handling him and we'd just had the debacle with Trac, then why would Pert choose this moment to undermine everyone and shop Oliver around? We were firmly in the spotlight needing to not make any sudden movements and this was the moment to go rogue?

Can't get my head around it, even if Clayton wanted to test the waters this could have been done through the FD. If true then I can't see how Pert's position would be tenable. 

[monoccular 17,409]

On 19/10/2024 at 18:00, Jibroni said:

I just want Clarrie to make Damian Barrett, Mclure, Morris and every other d/head jounro eat it.

"and the Downlow medalist for 2025 is ----- joint winners Christian Petracca and Clayton Oliver" 🤔

10 hours ago, At Least I Saw a Flag said:

Wow ... that's a seriously long paragraph.

Almost as long as a life sentence 🙄

Edited October 22 by monoccular

[daisycutter 29,596]

5 minutes ago, layzie said:

 

Can't get my head around it, even if Clayton wanted to test the waters this could have been done through the FD. If true then I can't see how Pert's position would be tenable. 

does make one wonder if something re co13 happened around that time

all i'm aware of is something on brownlow night, but i've heard little detail and even that was on socials. msm crickets. 

[58er 6,335]

8 minutes ago, layzie said:

Probably one of the shorter trips in the Goulburn Valley League really. 

The thing that is bothering me about this based on both accounts is Pert's involvement. If the Oliver camp were happy with how MFC were handling him and we'd just had the debacle with Trac, then why would Pert choose this moment to undermine everyone and shop Oliver around? We were firmly in the spotlight needing to not make any sudden movements and this was the moment to go rogue?

Can't get my head around it, even if Clayton wanted to test the waters this could have been done through the FD. If true then I can't see how Pert's position would be tenable. 

While I understand they  Pert has done what he did in conjunction with the FD List Cttee. It was a search to test the waters as remember last pre season Clarry was warned that he had to tick s few boxes.

While I thought he had done a good job according to the FD advice publicly may be some cracks appeared. In the end it hopefully is alls well that ends well. Fitness is the key to Clarry in running and the clearing up of his hand leg and ribs for all the preseason. 

Regarding Perty I believe that he has some credits still and he is crucial to the success of the Caulfield Training base development till its completion. 

Let’s see what the Reviews bring up in the public domain before we throw too many babies out with the bath water. 

[Katrina Dee Fan 3,104]

On 19/10/2024 at 23:25, Willmoy1947 said:

I call all of this BS, until they put a reputable Media name to  it, and i see Oliver saying it. I think in view of recent media record, we are entitled to ask for that as a minimum.

He said it to camera on Channel 7.

[Ugottobekidding 1,143]

3 hours ago, Young Blood said:

This thread is so boring

Dominated by a few old bores as usual.

[DubDee 25,436]

Those few days when the the Oliver thread was locked were the best of times

[Sir Why You Little 36,899]

4 hours ago, layzie said:

Scoop’s in the stairwell making some new medicine
Morris pounds the pavement, looking for acknowledgment
Robbo in a trench coat, smokes out, laid off
Breakfast show with Harf, not as good a pay-off

Lookout tweets, it’s something you did
God knows when but you’re losing all your friends
You better duck to the US looking for the new Trac
The man in a big branded cap in a big pig pen
Wants 11 million followers, you only got 10.

Oh Purple, Ralphy, Caroline and Cleary
Gather round the ink well, quality is hard to tell
Try hard, get barred, get volkaneo’d, get railed
Get sacked, get mail, join Seven if you fail

Lookout tweets, it’s something you did
God knows when but you’re losing all your friends
You better duck down the alleyway looking for an ambulance
Don’t wanna look dumb, walk and chew gum
Don’t follow leakers, or forget to feed the meter.
 

His Bobness Lord Dylan might even be impressed by this ….

Outstanding 😊

[Willmoy1947 4,070]

4 hours ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

He said it to camera on Channel 7.

How did you interpretate it then?