Why no key forward?

[DeeSpencer 25,627]

21 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

I haven't the time right now to read the whole thread - but YTF we didn't chase Darling and Parker is totally beyond me. So many pluses and so few downsides to both of them.

Parker some reports are saying got a 3 year deal. He's slowing down as a midfielder and we have a medium forward in Fritsch. He can play as a defacto key forward but at 183cm he's not exactly a great aerial threat.

Darling got a 2 year deal and has looked cooked for at least 2 years.

The best possible option of that sort of player was Membrey but even he is undersized and limited.

We have our version of that guy in Melksham.

We've junked up our list with enough top up players the last few years - Hunter, Billings, Fullarton, McAdam etc.

Any low cost addition had to be a guy with upside like Derksen  rather than desperate attempts at guys with no improvement in them.

Taking a step back and seeing what a forwards coach can do with the guys we have in the right option until we can find a proper solution.

[D Rev 629]

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

The biggest issue is that we haven't replaced Jackson. Fullarton was supposed to be the guy, but so far hasn't shown enough at VFL level.

If we can alleviate JVR of 2nd ruck duties, I'm more than happy with he, Petty, Turner and a developing Jefferson.

We've used 2 1st round picks on key forwards in 2 of the last 3 drafts. We need to top up on quality mids. So unless a quality key forward fell to us via free agency, I wouldn't blow our draft capital on a key forward.

Jackson is really not very easy to replace.

[D Rev 629]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

Parker some reports are saying got a 3 year deal. He's slowing down as a midfielder and we have a medium forward in Fritsch. He can play as a defacto key forward but at 183cm he's not exactly a great aerial threat.

Darling got a 2 year deal and has looked cooked for at least 2 years.

The best possible option of that sort of player was Membrey but even he is undersized and limited.

We have our version of that guy in Melksham.

We've junked up our list with enough top up players the last few years - Hunter, Billings, Fullarton, McAdam etc.

Any low cost addition had to be a guy with upside like Derksen  rather than desperate attempts at guys with no improvement in them.

Taking a step back and seeing what a forwards coach can do with the guys we have in the right option until we can find a proper solution.

I like this.  I'm actually quite happy with where we are at with our group, particularly with the restrictions of a salary cap.  Starting 3 of Petty, JVR and Turner is good, and all have upside.  I still believe Petty will move down back when May steps away to pursue a full-time career in customer service, but happy to be proven wrong.

We also have Jefferson to come in, which may still take a couple of years to be completely realised, but is exciting.

Relying on big forwards to kick a massive score isn't the go-to that it used to be, you need talls to compete, smalls to gather and everyone to contribute.  I think we really have this with the talls mentioned, Fritta and Milkshake (Im quite excited about him this season), Kozzy, Spargo (remember him!), plus contributions from those up the ground (Trac, Langers, Windsor etc).

 

 

 

[ChaserJ 5,083]

Our biggest issue here is connection from defence/midfield into the forward line. 

We lack polish and speed with ball movement (partially in order to preserve defence first focus), in trying to change the game plan last year it really exposed our lack of polish by foot. We tried to address at draft by bringing in Windsor (& trade by bringing in Billings), but it takes a couple of periods to reshape your list to facilitate that change in ball movement (when you don’t have the personnel already)

Clearly this was at play with our chase of Houston and will probably inform at least one of our selections at the draft.

We could have had Carey in his prime up forward and he would have battled with our entries.

[Pennant St Dee 13,165]

2 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Nope. We are backing in JVR, Petty, Turner. I'm also hoping we go with the two tall forwards and then the hybrids around them.

This is my thoughts too along with no key forwards being available. Jeffo has improved through the season although my basis on that is from minimal viewing of the VFL from afar and some track watchers who talk sense.

Kentfield is one I back based on coaching him and against him. I know his drive and desire and believe given a clean run at it he will do whatever it takes to seize the opportunity. Has a lot of natural hardness in him.

Beyond all of the above speed on the ball from D50 turnover and quicker ball movement overall will allow for greater separation and more dangerous F50 entries 

[Supreme_Demon 3,817]

15 minutes ago, ChaserJ said:

Our biggest issue here is connection from defence/midfield into the forward line. 

We lack polish and speed with ball movement (partially in order to preserve defence first focus), in trying to change the game plan last year it really exposed our lack of polish by foot. We tried to address at draft by bringing in Windsor (& trade by bringing in Billings), but it takes a couple of periods to reshape your list to facilitate that change in ball movement (when you don’t have the personnel already)

Clearly this was at play with our chase of Houston and will probably inform at least one of our selections at the draft.

We could have had Carey in his prime up forward and he would have battled with our entries.

Exactly!

We have too many poor kicks in our team.

We need more elite kicks.

Players the can land the ball with a beautiful kick "lace out" on the chests of our forwards.

That is why I am keen for the Demons to choose Xavier Lindsay with pick #9 in this year's draft. From all accounts he is an excellent kick.

Edited October 17 by Supreme_Demon

[Redleg 40,887]

16 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

 

Kentfield is one I back based on coaching him and against him. I know his drive and desire and believe given a clean run at it he will do whatever it takes to seize the opportunity. Has a lot of natural hardness in him.

 

I enjoyed reading that.

[DeeSpencer 25,627]

Nathan Kreuger we can fix you?

[jnrmac 20,055]

From memory the only recent Coleman medallists to play in a flag in the same year are Roughead 2013, Franklin in 2008 and Lloyd in 2000

McKay and Curnow won the Coleman 3 years running from 21, 22, 23 and it didn't help them win a flag

 

[Witches Hat 433]

Happy to back in what we already have. As others have said, it's the delivery that's the bigger problem.

No thanks to either Darling or Parker. I'd like to think we have learned our lesson in getting top up players who are on their way out. Much happier with Sharp who at least has an upside.

I'd have taken Membrey just to prevent him playing against us. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,813]

If we’re going with the JVR, Petty and Turner combo again (and Jefferson doesn’t come on) they simply need to kick more goals. We were AFL #14 for points which tells me that our 3 talls need give a fair bit more.

Particularly Petty who kicked 9.15 from 18/19 games as a forward and maybe 1/2 games as a defender. That is quite frankly atrocious. I don’t know how you spin it anyway.

JVR should aim for a minimum of 38 goals but ideally into the low 40’s next year.

Turner was probably the surprise packet of the year given we all assumed he’d be a defender this year. 17 goals from 15 games suggests to me that he’s capable of a 30 goals season. He’s a quality set shot.

So in answer to the question, the club must be satisfied with their forward stocks and didn’t see the need in recruiting B Graders in the form of Membrey, Day or Darling.

Edited October 17 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Pennant St Dee 13,165]

6 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we’re going with the JVR, Petty and Turner combo again (and Jefferson doesn’t come on) they simply need to kick more goals. We were AFL #14 for points which tells me that our 3 talls need give a fair bit more.

Particularly Petty who kicked 9.15 from 18/19 games as a forward and maybe 1/2 games as a defender. That is quite frankly atrocious. I don’t know how you spin it anyway.

JVR should aim for a minimum of 38 goals but ideally into the low 40’s next year.

Turner was probably the surprise packet of the year given we all assumed he’d be a defender this year. 17 goals from 15 games suggests to me that he’s capable of a 30 goals season. He’s a quality set shot.

So in answer to the question, the club must be satisfied with their forward stocks and didn’t see the need in recruiting B Graders in the form of Membrey, Day or Darling.

It’s all about the ball movement, as Chaser said Carey at his peak would struggle in our F50

[58er 6,419]

5 hours ago, Just Koz said:

Is anyone else a bit perplexed as to why another trade period has gone by and still we feel short a threatening key forward? Understand that we’re committing to Petty, JVR and Turner - and I see the potential in all of them - but they’re all still young and inexperienced in the role and surely don’t fill quality defensive units with much concern. 

Players like Darling or Lynch are clearly well past their best, but wouldn’t it be better to have one of those in your forward line group for added depth and experience? If they earn themselves a spot they demand a good defender, and pressure comes off one of our young developing forwards? 
 

We had this issue before ‘21 then went and got Brown. And he made a massive difference when fit and in form. Since then we’ve lost him, Jackson and Smith, who could all do that role effectively, and have only replaced them kids. I just think we need at least one old war horse in that area to help these guys out. 
 

The other point is, is one of P, JVR or T gets injured, which Petty and Turner often do, who comes in? Jefferson with even less experience? I think a lot of excuses around our results over the last couple of years is around injuries in these areas - as well as key backs - but why would we assume ‘25 would be any different? Injury isn’t all luck. 
 

Just think we’ve needed more depth and experience in that position for a while now. Hell I wouldn’t have hated Stringer or Membrey to at least give defenders something else to think about. 

You have started off with a KEY forward in this article and finish up with Membrey or Skinnner. So it proves you can’t come up with a true KPF. BTW I do think either probably Skinner would have need a hood choice for us ( despite our no DH policy ). Sometimes you have to back in your system but I guess our FD and Coaches are so sick of the media lasting and banging on about culture it would have resulted in another round of tirades from Cornes Barrett and Lloyd if we had snagged Jake. 
Personally I hope we draft Armstrong or Tauru preferably Tauru first at 5 and then a mid any of the first 6/7 would do. 

That may be your answer JK and hopefully it solves the problem. 

[Demonstone 22,456]

Collingwood have delisted ex-Cat Nathan Kreuger, whose one and only good game was against us on KB.

Extensive injury history and just a good ordinary player IMO and I hope we don't pick him up either as a DFA or in the Rookie Draft.

[DeeSpencer 25,627]

8 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

Collingwood have delisted ex-Cat Nathan Kreuger, whose one and only good game was against us on KB.

Extensive injury history and just a good ordinary player IMO and I hope we don't pick him up either as a DFA or in the Rookie Draft.

I’d be open to have him do a preseason with us, he has better than average talent if he was ever able to string games together. No way you could sign him in November though. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,813]

33 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

Collingwood have delisted ex-Cat Nathan Kreuger, whose one and only good game was against us on KB.

Extensive injury history and just a good ordinary player IMO and I hope we don't pick him up either as a DFA or in the Rookie Draft.

He beat May and co on Kings Bday this year.

Probably the only good game he’s ever played.

[D4Life 2,468]

Complete injury free pre seasons into Petty and Turner will make a big difference to them. 
tThen we can really judge how they go this year.

Personally I like how Turner attacks the ball and his aggressive leading at times. He is also a good kick for goal.

JVR will just keep getting better!

[Adam The God 30,209]

3 hours ago, Colm said:

Good call I think. Also the majority of mids we are linked to in the draft are good forward of the ball and may rotate with Trac. 

It's why I'll be very happy if we can land Langford and Hynes. Both dangerous forward of centre. 

Edited October 17 by Adam The God

[deejammin' 2,370]

2 hours ago, D Rev said:

Jackson is really not very easy to replace.

I think Verall is the one. His best play has been as a ruck/forward. Not a first ruck. He takes good marks, is athletic for a big man but not quite big crash and bash enough for the monster rucks. He was forced to play No 1 ruck more than he should’ve with Fullarton a bust, now with Cambell I can see him playing forward/ruck and earning an AFL place. 
We may well go JVR, Turner, Verall forward and send Petty back again. 
Then there’s the enigmatic Jeffo, who could be anything, or nothing.

Edited October 17 by deejammin'

[Herewecome2017 9]

2 hours ago, ChaserJ said:

Our biggest issue here is connection from defence/midfield into the forward line. 

We lack polish and speed with ball movement (partially in order to preserve defence first focus), in trying to change the game plan last year it really exposed our lack of polish by foot. We tried to address at draft by bringing in Windsor (& trade by bringing in Billings), but it takes a couple of periods to reshape your list to facilitate that change in ball movement (when you don’t have the personnel already)

Clearly this was at play with our chase of Houston and will probably inform at least one of our selections at the draft.

We could have had Carey in his prime up forward and he would have battled with our entries.

Houston would of helped this massively! 

[monoccular 17,418]

2 hours ago, D Rev said:

Jackson is really not very easy to replace.

A once in a generation player.  

[demon3165 2,717]

7 hours ago, Just Koz said:

Is anyone else a bit perplexed as to why another trade period has gone by and still we feel short a threatening key forward? Understand that we’re committing to Petty, JVR and Turner - and I see the potential in all of them - but they’re all still young and inexperienced in the role and surely don’t fill quality defensive units with much concern. 

Players like Darling or Lynch are clearly well past their best, but wouldn’t it be better to have one of those in your forward line group for added depth and experience? If they earn themselves a spot they demand a good defender, and pressure comes off one of our young developing forwards? 
 

We had this issue before ‘21 then went and got Brown. And he made a massive difference when fit and in form. Since then we’ve lost him, Jackson and Smith, who could all do that role effectively, and have only replaced them kids. I just think we need at least one old war horse in that area to help these guys out. 
 

The other point is, is one of P, JVR or T gets injured, which Petty and Turner often do, who comes in? Jefferson with even less experience? I think a lot of excuses around our results over the last couple of years is around injuries in these areas - as well as key backs - but why would we assume ‘25 would be any different? Injury isn’t all luck. 
 

Just think we’ve needed more depth and experience in that position for a while now. Hell I wouldn’t have hated Stringer or Membrey to at least give defenders something else to think about. 

How about we draft some midfield players with kicking skills and some decent pace, might help delivering the ball into the forward line a lot easier.

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

3 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

It’s all about the ball movement, as Chaser said Carey at his peak would struggle in our F50

A key forward like Carey lifts and straightens up a midfield 

[Pennant St Dee 13,165]

1 hour ago, Dee*ceiving said:

A key forward like Carey lifts and straightens up a midfield 

He does but an average defender can nullify a great forward when delivery is regularly on top of his head

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,383]

5 hours ago, ChaserJ said:

Our biggest issue here is connection from defence/midfield into the forward line. 

We lack polish and speed with ball movement (partially in order to preserve defence first focus), in trying to change the game plan last year it really exposed our lack of polish by foot. We tried to address at draft by bringing in Windsor (& trade by bringing in Billings), but it takes a couple of periods to reshape your list to facilitate that change in ball movement (when you don’t have the personnel already)

Clearly this was at play with our chase of Houston and will probably inform at least one of our selections at the draft.

We could have had Carey in his prime up forward and he would have battled with our entries.

This plus we need separation from our fwds and our smalls to learn what it is to play as a small fwd. Kosi can have a game where he kicks 3 goals in a qtr then will go missing for 5 weeks or take unrealistic marking attempts leaving the opposition to run the ball straight back out.