On 20/09/2024 at 12:51, fr_ap said:

The criticism isn't always about shortened quarters...it's also about doing it away from the cauldron of the MCG and without the distraction and pressure that the normal week brings. 

Even though we absolutely [censored] it in, I do wonder whether we would have got it done at the G. We'll never know but there's enough fragility about this group to suggest to me the forced relocation and togetherness was actually an advantage rather than a hurdle.

Your that person who wants to be different for the sake of it aren’t you 

I rate it as the best I've seen.

I've seen 1.

  On 20/09/2024 at 12:40, fr_ap said:

I agree mate. 

It was both one of the best and saddest days I've had.

Obviously very thankful and grateful it happened and I was well and healthy to see it (on the box...in lockdown), but not being able to have the week - the special, quintessential Melbourne week - that I've seen others have just sucked. 

I just want that week - that the pies had, the tigers x2, the dogs, so many cats fans, so many older Hawks fans - and to attend the game with my brother in the flesh. 

These are separate things. 

We all want the true MCG GF experience. We all want the GF parade and the day itself (and prelim weekend too).

I get the sense though that many cannot separate that desire from the 2021 flag being in lockdown and so start saying things like “it was a fluke” or “we hit a purple patch in the finals” (neither of which are remotely true - we finished 1st with a 17-1-4 record and beat every other club at least once except Collingwood), or that we wouldn’t have won it in a “normal” season, or whatever. Any such commentary IMO cheapens the flag and IMO is unwarranted. 

As for the argument that we might/would not have won it at if the finals were at the G, yes it’s true that in 2022-23 we flopped four times over, but I’d argue that in 2021 we were fitter and healthier, and in the best form going into September of those three years, and didn’t have any baggage or expectation as we did in 2022-23. I’m confident that we’d have won it anywhere that year. Obviously we’ll never know. 

  On 20/09/2024 at 23:05, Fromgotowoewodin said:

It was Weightman, grabbed Pickett’s arm and tried to milk a high contact/holding the man free - correctly not paid to the little con artist

Ah yeah, it was too. I knew it was a weasel of some sort, just didn't remember the correct one hehe 

We would've won anywhere in 2021, and in fact proved it.  We actually played in front of crowds most of the season.  It was in fact as late a round 18 when crowds couldn't attend when we played Hawthorn in the drawn game. We the dropped one against the Dogs in front of nobody in round 19, then the bizarre game against Gold Coast where we flew up, sat on the tarmac and flew back again to play the GC at Marvel the next day (and [censored] them). Then over to Perth in front of a pretty hostile 32k crowd to play one of the longest games in league history with the lightning strike which forced the delay, then back to an empty G again to play Adelaide and then the final game against Geelong at the empty stadium.  Then began the finals series firstly at Adelaide, in front of 14k people, then over to Perth for back to back wins in front of full houses both games. I would argue it was perhaps the most hard won premiership of all time.  And the fact we did it so comprehensively in all finals shows just how good we were. Anywhere, anytime - that was the 21 Demons.

Why would any Melbourne supporter question how good a win it was.  We were awesome!

  On 21/09/2024 at 01:06, titan_uranus said:

We all want the true MCG GF experience. We all want the GF parade and the day itself

I don't get the idea that because the premiership wasn't won at the MCG that some people feel short-changed.  This is how the supporters of all the non-Victorian teams experience a premiership and they don't feel short-changed.  Same goes for the NRL, A League, netball etc.  In the NFL and NBA this is the norm.  It's not the little VFL anymore.  

  On 20/09/2024 at 12:25, Demonised said:

From halfway through the third quarter until the end of the game was the best, purest most exciting football I have ever seen.

  On 20/09/2024 at 10:30, Jack Vineys Anger Manager said:

Our 3rd quarter burst was the purest football I've ever seen. 3 goals in 47 seconds to end the quarter. We were away from home for 70 + days. Its the hardest premiership ever won.
 

  On 20/09/2024 at 23:15, picket fence said:

Hnmm Jethro Tulls "Living in the Past" I seldom indulge!

To succeed in a covid year after 20,819 days in the football wilderness. Simply enhances the shine on  premiership cup.

Picket from the Jethro Tull Living in the Past double album "Life is a Long Song" resonates for me.

Edited September 21, 2024Sep 21 by Tarax Club

I was there in person 

The single most amazing experience ever. (Sorry wife and kid...) 

That 3rd quarter was just epic. Went from oh [censored] it's looking like we're done to game over in the blink of an eye. The dogs and the supporters were all shellshocked. 

Could not believe what I was witnessing there 

Never ever downplay it - anyone who says it's not real because it wasn't at the G can get stuffed. The 60k crowd there was louder than any 100k crowd i have ever been in.  Purely magical day

Our Premiership win in 2021 was absolutely breathtakingly brilliant, once we broke their momentum when they lead us by 19 points early in the 3rd we kicked 16 goals to their 1.

I have never seen football like it before or since, that last 47 seconds in the 3rd where we slammed on 3 goals was superb. I have watched the Granny numerous times just to reassure myself just how good we were. I have also watched “Sound The Alarm” numerous times to get a handle on what was happening behind the scenes during the game. We would have won it anywhere in ‘21, that team had that something special about it that made them invincible on the day…Sigh…!!!

Our 2021 campaign was as dominant or more dominant than the Cats in 22, the Pies in 23 or the Swans in 24. 

We were clearly the best team all season, i don't think any other coach would have felt they'd have beaten us, especially in the form we found in the finals. I don't believe it would have mattered if it was full length quarters, or played in Melbourne or whatever else, 

You could perhaps argue that given the difficulty of the circumstances it's possibly the most impressive Premiership campaign in a really long time. 

If you can over summer watch each game of the 2021 season. (Most games are on youtube)

From a scratchy error filled game in Round 1 against Freo you can see the gameplan evolve. Even the kick to the forward pocket. Cannot quite remember when we hit our straps but IIRC it's around mid season.

The final H&A game in the empty Geelong stadium is unreal. Kind of sorry they used the fake crowd noise as it was almost other worldly that year.
There's a version of the G&F with Denis Commeti commentating. My favourite.

BTW I trace the turnaround from Mitch Hannan's failed disposal into the Dog's forward line. It happens about 30 seconds before Caleb Daniels dumps Max Gawn and the rest is history.

  On 20/09/2024 at 12:51, fr_ap said:

The criticism isn't always about shortened quarters...it's also about doing it away from the cauldron of the MCG and without the distraction and pressure that the normal week brings. 

Even though we absolutely [censored] it in, I do wonder whether we would have got it done at the G. We'll never know but there's enough fragility about this group to suggest to me the forced relocation and togetherness was actually an advantage rather than a hurdle.

That’s a fair question re the MCG.

Our form at the G was quite ordinary in the second half of the season.

1) Ordinary low scoring scrappy win over Essendon 

2) Shock loss to GWS

3) Even more of a SHOCK draw to Hawthorn

4) Beaten by a fellow flag contender Dogs from start to finish in what was considered a litmus test at the time

5) A “meh” win over a mediocre Adelaide where we allowed a big run of opposition goals in the mid part of the game.

We’ll never know if we would’ve handled the MCG for a September campaign, but our interstate form for most of 2021 was tremendous. 

  On 21/09/2024 at 06:18, Bring-Back-Powell said:

That’s a fair question re the MCG.

Our form at the G was quite ordinary in the second half of the season.

1) Ordinary low scoring scrappy win over Essendon 

2) Shock loss to GWS

3) Even more of a SHOCK draw to Hawthorn

4) Beaten by a fellow flag contender Dogs from start to finish in what was considered a litmus test at the time

5) A “meh” win over a mediocre Adelaide where we allowed a big run of opposition goals in the mid part of the game.

We’ll never know if we would’ve handled the MCG for a September campaign, but our interstate form for most of 2021 was tremendous. 

I’d argue that given the Dogs form at the MCG, and given we would have had far more support on the day given the MCC is so heavily stacked with Melbourne supporters, we would have won comprehensively against the Dogs at the G too. 
 

To suggest 2021 was a Covid flag is just wrong. It was full games, full quarters, not one single game was shortened or missed. But we had to play multiples games interstate and hub for weeks prior to the grand final, and needed to win 3 straight away finals to win it all. It was and always will be the single hardest premiership to win for a Victorian side. It was a golden opportunity for the interstate sides and they [censored] the bed. Too bad so sad. 

  On 21/09/2024 at 06:18, Bring-Back-Powell said:

That’s a fair question re the MCG.

Our form at the G was quite ordinary in the second half of the season.

1) Ordinary low scoring scrappy win over Essendon 

2) Shock loss to GWS

3) Even more of a SHOCK draw to Hawthorn

4) Beaten by a fellow flag contender Dogs from start to finish in what was considered a litmus test at the time

5) A “meh” win over a mediocre Adelaide where we allowed a big run of opposition goals in the mid part of the game.

We’ll never know if we would’ve handled the MCG for a September campaign, but our interstate form for most of 2021 was tremendous. 

Essendon and GWS made the finals in 2021, and the Dogs obviously were the Dogs that year. They might have been "shock" losses, but the "shock" was because of how good we were, not because they were awful sides.

We beat Adelaide by 41 points in that game, not sure how "meh" that was.

But regardless, FFS Sydney lost in Round 21 this year by 112 points to the side they just beat in the prelim and are now the favourites in the Grand Final. Premiers can have bad games in the second half of the season without it being a sign of a problem or trend.

At any rate, last year Collingwood played their two worst games of the year, both at the G, in the final five weeks (losing to Carlton and Hawthorn). Didn't stop them.

Looking for ways to suggest we might not have won finals at the G in 2021 is a bit like how you have in the past used the phrase "rent-a-crowds" - it undermines our achievement.

  On 21/09/2024 at 11:52, titan_uranus said:

Looking for ways to suggest we might not have won finals at the G in 2021 is a bit like how you have in the past used the phrase "rent-a-crowds" - it undermines our achievement.

If you read my earlier post:

1) I praised our 2021 finals series achievement by stating we were the third most dominant team since 1990 in terms of cumulative margin.

2) I defended the COVID claim by stating the 2021 season (as opposed to 2020) was just like any other in terms of match and season length.

If you think that’s undermining our achievement then good for you.

As for the “rent a crowd” claim, I have no recollection of posting it, but if I did was I wrong? How many West Coast and Freo supporters logged on to scab membership codes all the while pretending to be MFC supporters?

  On 20/09/2024 at 10:41, Dr. Gonzo said:

Even way back then 🙄

This is not an argument we need to be having. 

Sometimes I think that people underrate, or overlook, the last quarter of our GF triumph. The last part of the third quarter gets all the accolades but we shouldn't forget that the last quarter was a sensational, relentless display of breathtaking, classic football where we utterly dominated the opposition and didn't stop until AFTER the final siren.

  On 21/09/2024 at 03:23, greenwaves said:

I don't get the idea that because the premiership wasn't won at the MCG that some people feel short-changed.  This is how the supporters of all the non-Victorian teams experience a premiership and they don't feel short-changed.  Same goes for the NRL, A League, netball etc.  In the NFL and NBA this is the norm.  It's not the little VFL anymore.  

For sure however there's one difference, a lot of us would have moved heaven and Earth to be in WA if we were allowed to.

When you buy a high level membership for years with a GF guarantee and go to games most weeks, you sort of do feel short-changed when the once in a lifetime day comes and you're essentially banned from attending.

Swans and Lions fans are at least able to try and get tickets and get on a plane down here, all the best to them.

Best flag win ever.

 

  On 21/09/2024 at 21:56, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If you read my earlier post:

1) I praised our 2021 finals series achievement by stating we were the third most dominant team since 1990 in terms of cumulative margin.

2) I defended the COVID claim by stating the 2021 season (as opposed to 2020) was just like any other in terms of match and season length.

If you think that’s undermining our achievement then good for you.

As for the “rent a crowd” claim, I have no recollection of posting it, but if I did was I wrong? How many West Coast and Freo supporters logged on to scab membership codes all the while pretending to be MFC supporters?

Don't even bother.

Yours was a good post.

 

  On 21/09/2024 at 22:06, Roost it far said:

This is not an argument we need to be having. 

Exactly my grandmother always told me not to argue with 1di0t$ as it’s a pointless exercise.

Anyone who thinks the 2021 Premiership (or any Premiership)was a fluke or underrated is in my book an 1d10t 

Edited September 22, 2024Sep 22 by Pennant St Dee

Oliver would have stopped Bont dead in his tracks in the premiership quater anywhere.

I was so happy for all the long suffering WA Dees fans who got to see it. Living in Perth and not supporting one of their two clubs is so tough, it must have been so, so sweet.