1 hour ago, KozzyCan said:

Been living under a rock the last twelve months?

Head in sand stuff with Wayne. Always has been, always will be.

You'd have Raygun dish up the same performance in the next Olympics and he'd still tell you it's a 10/10 performance. 

13 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

You can shoot the messenger all you want but the media don't go after clubs when their house is in order and they have no issues, they chase stories. You are mad if you think this is simply about ladder position. Look at the last two premiers after us, Geelong finished 12th last year and it wasn't a story, Collingwood are two rungs above us this year and it isn't a story.

You seem to think the club is in tip-top shape so I would ask you why you are so afraid of a review? Surely you would love to see yourself and the leaders at the club vindicated.

I think it is wiser to trust the results than it is to trust the media.  The media are motivated by creating outrage to get eyeballs on them.

 

2 hours ago, waynewussell said:

Just a reminder... In seasons 2022 & 2023 MFC slipped out of the top 4 for a total of two rounds. That's post our Premiership year. Even in 2024 we have been in the top 4 for 7 rounds. This record has been the envy of every other club. Compare this to the records of Collingwood, Geelong, Richmond, West Coast & Bulldogs, post recent Premierships. Our recent slip from grace is hardly a matter for a 'Royal Commission'. I also note that at least 21 of the current list are signed beyond 2025, add another 9 if you include 2025.

Well said.And as for the allegation that we have a “culture “ problem ,then why are players like Langdon and Petty re-signing new contracts?

Geez, what is the down side to having some experts from the footy industry come in, have a look at how we're doing things and giving us some recommendations on how we can improve? 

Why not go out and pick 4-5 of the best footy people we can, Brendan Gale, Peter Jackson, Luke Hodge, Joel Selwood, whoever it is and say, can you take a look at our structure, give us some insight into how your great clubs have done it and help us bounce back in 2025 and win another flag. 

 

Honestly this would be a very reasonable step to take given the smoke around the club for the better part of 18 months now with several concerning incidents. 

Noone at the club should be immune from the review, all positions looked at and we make sure we have things right to the best of our ability heading into 2025. 

 

1 minute ago, D Rev said:

I think it is wiser to trust the results than it is to trust the media.  The media are motivated by creating outrage to get eyeballs on them.

 

Personally think it's good to have eyes across everything and make up your own mind actually. But it's another reason to do a review, having an independent body audit the club would be a way to inform the supporters, address issues and reassure outside talent that we're a worthy club to join.

External reviews are fraught with danger. We particularly don't want an external review at this time given the litigation we are facing.

I always said the 2024 was our "Last Chance Saloon" with this premiership tilt and that we needed everything to go right this year.

Our performance has been ok in 2024 with not much going right. We are 10-11, with 0-4 in games less than 6 points. (Better to look at the win loss rather than the ladder position.) We were always a low chance to win the flag after our best player was put out for the year.

Off the field we have a had a lot of different issues, but they do not seem to be all interconnected. And even if many of them are connected to Oliver, we can't just fix them easily.

I am pretty balanced with regards to Goodwin but I think he is a good coach who has developed the right game plan for our list. We are also tied to him for the next three years and it is not a smart decision to sack good coaches given the impact on the soft cap.

 

7 minutes ago, Dingo said:

Well said.And as for the allegation that we have a “culture “ problem ,then why are players like Langdon and Petty re-signing new contracts?

This is like saying the Eagles didn't have a culture problem in 2007 because Mark LeCras stuck around.

33 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

You can shoot the messenger all you want but the media don't go after clubs when their house is in order and they have no issues, they chase stories. You are mad if you think this is simply about ladder position. Look at the last two premiers after us, Geelong finished 12th last year and it wasn't a story, Collingwood are two rungs above us this year and it isn't a story.

You seem to think the club is in tip-top shape so I would ask you why you are so afraid of a review? Surely you would love to see yourself and the leaders at the club vindicated.

I'd argue they do, but not all clubs all of the time. 

We are definitely a soft target and beacuse of recent success and a raft of high profile players we're in a sweet spot where the general public has some interest and we're not big enough that the media are concerned about [censored] off the club/members. 

The Collingwood salary cap dump (which I am convinced was a breach papered over), JDG legal issues, racism scandals etc. Didn't get anywhere near the attention we seem to for even minor things like Clayton firing up at Selwyn. 

Likewise Geelong and Richmond seem to skate along without a lot of media attention. Are there zero fires there? No f'n way...

1 hour ago, waynewussell said:

In round 22 we lost by 2 points to PA. In round 20 we lost by two points to GWS. In round 16 we lost by 5 points to Brisbane. You will have to rely on your own memory regarding how those results hinged on flip of the coin moments in the final seconds of the game. Reverse those three losses and MFC would currently be equal 3rd on the ladder! I'm not against the type of review that every team conducts post season and agree wholeheartedly that change is required. I simply aren't buying in to the Culture, Shock-Jock scenario!

Such a 'Melbourne' statement. 

9 minutes ago, Dee*ceiving said:

I'd argue they do, but not all clubs all of the time. 

We are definitely a soft target and beacuse of recent success and a raft of high profile players we're in a sweet spot where the general public has some interest and we're not big enough that the media are concerned about [censored] off the club/members. 

The Collingwood salary cap dump (which I am convinced was a breach papered over), JDG allged sexual/physical assaults, racism scandals etc. Didn't get anywhere near the attention we seem to for even minor things like Clayton firing up at Selwyn. 

Likewise Geelong and Richmond seem to skate along without a lot of media attention. Are there zero fires there? No f'n way...

Collingwood were a massive story over the 2020-21 period. It ended with them sacking their coach, president, CEO and footy boss and winning a flag two years later.

Richmond were also in the crosshairs between 2014-16. They even had an outside faction trying to instigate a board spill, They scrapped their whole footy department apart from their coach and won a flag 12 months later.

Edited August 16, 2024Aug 16 by KozzyCan

3 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Collingwood were a massive story over the 2020-21 period. It ended with them sacking their coach, president, CEO and footy boss and winning a flag two years later.

Richmond were also in the crosshairs between 2014-16. They even had an outside faction trying to instigate a board spill, They scrapped their whole footy department apart from their coach and won a flag 12 months later.

Absolutely valid points, but often there's little point in making such balanced points as the victim mentality of many Melbourne supporters is just insufferable and ingrained. It's never the entity's fault, always someone else; the AFL, the media, other clubs, Maynard, etc, etc. 

7 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

Such a 'Melbourne' statement. 

By the goings on and rantings around here, I’m thinking we are akin to Collingwood and Essendon supporters/statement types. 
 

2 hours ago, waynewussell said:

In round 22 we lost by 2 points to PA. In round 20 we lost by two points to GWS. In round 16 we lost by 5 points to Brisbane. You will have to rely on your own memory regarding how those results hinged on flip of the coin moments in the final seconds of the game. Reverse those three losses and MFC would currently be equal 3rd on the ladder! I'm not against the type of review that every team conducts post season and agree wholeheartedly that change is required. I simply aren't buying in to the Culture, Shock-Jock scenario!

Every club has had narrow losses. Our ladder position is a true reflection of our performance this year.

If Trac's comments are true, and Dan Houston has had a change of heart about joining us, then you can't just sweep things under the carpet. The perception of the club from the outside will impact our onfield performances if not addressed.

Imagine thinking it was just about wins and losses. Just incredible. Only over 12 months of off field distractions and the clubs best player saying they'd request a trade if the club would allow it. Happens at every club! 

I'm not buying into the "we'd be 5th on the ladder if we won all the close games."

Firstly, unless you're Collingwood of 2022 and 2023, you're simply not winning all games decided by 6 points or less.

Secondly, the Carlton and GWS losses were false economies and realistically we were never winning. Carlton spanked us for the majority of the game and lead for basically 100% of the game. and it took a hail Mary chance to snatch it with 30 seconds left. The GWS game was over when they kicked 4 very quick unanswered goals, and you're simply not overcoming a 26 point last quarter lead to a quality outfit.

On the matter of external reviews, Phil Davis on SEN mentioned that they are far more worthwhile than an internal review. Internal reviews can be hopelessly conflicted.

 

3 hours ago, waynewussell said:

KNEE JERK!

I agree, two weeks out of the top 4 in 22/23, if we had kicked straight we win both

4 or 5 under a goal losses, win these & we are top 4 again 

Some serious injuries to our top 6 players & the retirement of our heart & soul.

These aren’t the efforts of a fractured club, the media has massacred us for 12 months.

Petracca can Nick off if he hasn’t got the mettle to help the club after he’s poured petrol on the fire since his injury 

Get some new assistants to help Goodwin, a key forward a classy outside mid & go again

Ban Tom Morris & Swartz from the club

Oh & a bit of bums on seats by our fickle supporter base

2 hours ago, waynewussell said:

I'll have to answer for you...

"Sideshow" - a minor or diverting incident or issue, especially one which distracts attention from something more important. 

Do you think there would be calls for an external review if we were currently sitting 3rd on the ladder? And yet, it is quite clear that we have slipped to our current position because of on-field lapses in the final moments of the games I have referred to previously.

For me, the modus operandi of mainstream media is to create an outrage over some individual, event or issue that will attract an audience. Then, to fan the flames with a series of possible connecting factors or public opinions, not always supported by the facts or more in-depth research. The aim is to sell the specific media product; to keep the 'clicks' coming for as long as possible, before moving on to some other 'outrage', some other individual, event or issue that will draw a crowd. Global ridicule of Raygun's Olympic performance is another current example.

I was asking whether you were simply fanning the flames!

As supporters it is easy to forget that there are 17 other teams with access to the same level of talent, coaching, fitness and conditioning, facilities and other things that result in a very fine margin between success (Premiership) and failure. Often games are decided by marginal differences in how teams structure up against each other, player form and fitness, injuries, and even a lucky or unlucky bounce or umpiring decision.

Collingwood have done well in the past few seasons to maximise their comparative advantage in the noise and energy generated by their supporters. In 2018 we leaned on such energy to win finals vs Hawthorn and Geelong, as a Melbourne support I have never been to a game where our supporters were as vocal as they were in those two games.

Outside of the media reporting we have achieved alot more this year than our ladder position suggests:

1. Played alot of young players who have performed well.

2. Resigned key players including Petty, Windsor, Tholstrup, Langdon, and Turner.

3. Supported Clarry to the extent that he played almost every game and is happy and in a really good space to get back to his best in 2025.

4. Worked Petty and Melksham back into the side from serious injuries where they are playing some really good footy.

5. Building synergy with our forward line that will only get better on 2025.

6. Added speed and ball use to our midfield through playing Rivers and at times McVee through the middle.

Now is probably a good time to get the negative media reporting out of the way where the focus will shift to Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood if they do not make the finals.

Edited August 16, 2024Aug 16 by george_on_the_outer

We don't need a review because Demonlanders know exactly what the problems are and how to fix them.  All the football experts are right here.

Edited August 16, 2024Aug 16 by greenwaves

Surely any Demonland review needs to begin with the most obvious of questions, delivered by you know who…

‘WHY IS JEFFO NOT GETTING A BLOODY GAME???!?!????’

20 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I'm not buying into the "we'd be 5th on the ladder if we won all the close games."

Firstly, unless you're Collingwood of 2022 and 2023, you're simply not winning all games decided by 6 points or less.

Secondly, the Carlton and GWS losses were false economies and realistically we were never winning. Carlton spanked us for the majority of the game and lead for basically 100% of the game. and it took a hail Mary chance to snatch it with 30 seconds left. The GWS game was over when they kicked 4 very quick unanswered goals, and you're simply not overcoming a 26 point last quarter lead to a quality outfit.

On the matter of external reviews, Phil Davis on SEN mentioned that they are far more worthwhile than an internal review. Internal reviews can be hopelessly conflicted.

 

The last time I watched a game, it was played over 4 quarters. Losing by a point after conceding the first 6 goals and with us having all the momentum for the next 3 quarters, it never crossed your mind that we had a realistic chance to win this? In the GWS game, when we were 6 goals up, were you saying to yourself, we are not going to win this? If true, it won't matter how we play; you will always think we will lose. That is sad.

53 minutes ago, Billy said:

Oh & a bit of bums on seats by our fickle supporter base

Just the one cheek?

20 minutes ago, djr said:

The last time I watched a game, it was played over 4 quarters. Losing by a point after conceding the first 6 goals and with us having all the momentum for the next 3 quarters, it never crossed your mind that we had a realistic chance to win this? In the GWS game, when we were 6 goals up, were you saying to yourself, we are not going to win this? If true, it won't matter how we play; you will always think we will lose. That is sad.

I didn’t think we would win either of those games. 
You cannot switch off for large slabs of time

we do it regularly 

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Every club has had narrow losses. Our ladder position is a true reflection of our performance this year.

If Trac's comments are true, and Dan Houston has had a change of heart about joining us, then you can't just sweep things under the carpet. The perception of the club from the outside will impact our onfield performances if not addressed.

We have the 5th worst percentage in the league. That is indicative of our performance in 2024.

Yes we have performed well across 22-23 post flag, but that is all it was. We didn't excel, we didn't dominate, we didnt win a final and didn't finish top 4 (preliminary finalists). If we had a better culture and standards amongst the playing group we may have won another flag.

7 minutes ago, djr said:

The last time I watched a game, it was played over 4 quarters. Losing by a point after conceding the first 6 goals and with us having all the momentum for the next 3 quarters, it never crossed your mind that we had a realistic chance to win this? In the GWS game, when we were 6 goals up, were you saying to yourself, we are not going to win this? If true, it won't matter how we play; you will always think we will lose. That is sad.

In the Carlton game we absolutely did not have all the momentum in the next 3 quarters. We outscored them by 8 points between quarter time and three quarter time. Then yes, we came home with a wet sail but left our run far too late. What are the odds of a team winning a game from behind from a centre bounce with 40 seconds on the clock (after Gawn's goal). I bet it hardly ever happens.

The GWS game we conceded 12 of the next 15 goals after quarter time. That's not paying the bills and highlights everything wrong with us this year in terms of putting together 4 quarters. Did I think we would win when were 5 goals up? Sure? Did I think we would win when were 2 points down with 70 seconds left? No, and therefore I don't see this GWS game and the Carlton game as ones that got away.

 

36 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Surely any Demonland review needs to begin with the most obvious of questions, delivered by you know who…

‘WHY IS JEFFO NOT GETTING A BLOODY GAME???!?!????’

The fact this question keeps surfacing might suggest that the demonland experts aren’t experts or are just too lazy to watch Casey matches

Btw for the record I’d probably give the kid a couple of games now that our season is done - it will make him understand how much work he has ahead this pre season and beyond