On 15/06/2025 at 19:17, The Taciturn Demon said:

...it also seems like the draft is one you wouldn't want to trade into.

And I think we knew this last year, so we traded this years pick to Essendon.

All we’ll need this year is points to take Kalani White, if/when he nominates us!

Perhaps there’s a madness to our method

3 hours ago, bing181 said:

OK. Now, across the same time period:

a) list all of the examples where changes of coach didn't bring about substantial or lasting improvement. You're cherry picking.

b) add in the changes in personnel/players and/or list development for those clubs/coaches for the years in question. You're ignoring other factors than just the change in coach.

If changing coaches was the panacea, how come with the Dees from the end of Daniher (2007) until the arrival of Goodwin (2017) when we had 3 coaches and 3 interim coaches, we never managed to finish higher than 11th - though most of those years we were lower than that?

What's your point? That changing coaches must be always successful to be worth it?

All you need to do is ask whether our team should be performing better than they are, if not why not?

In my view many of our issues are system based. Issues that have been present for a while and that Goodwin has not been able to fix. Therefore, changing coach is the correct call.

On your list management point. Teams make list changes every single year. But a senior coach has a major say in their vision for the list. So Goodwin has had a massive say in our list build.

10 hours ago, Demonland said:

Oh look..

Echo...echo... echo..

Been saying this for how 🤔 long.

There comes a time....

And that time is now

Where have all the happy clappers gone from the threads ??

Time to wake up and smell the ...... well the aroma around Melbourne isn't Roses that's for sure.

I have absolutely nothing against Simon. I think he and Ooze did a wonderful job 👏 🏆

I think he's an intelligent kind of bloke with well meaning intentions. I simply think he has run his race. Does he possibly know this 🤔 🤷‍♂️

If he reads the room correctly and indeed sees a bigger picture he might garner even greater respect by bowing out on his terms. He could do well to negotiate a deal to leave. Everyone's a winner and we move on.

Or .. ??

21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Where have all the happy clappers gone from the threads ??

Time to wake up and smell the ...... well the aroma around Melbourne isn't Roses that's for sure.

The “happy clappers” read the room/thread. When the usual doomsayers (who by the way weren’t too unhappy last week) have reason to vent no point in trying to post any other view. So go for it …have fun pointing every negative you can think of …not one positive in the club you follow …

21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I have absolutely nothing against Simon. I think he and Ooze did a wonderful job 👏 🏆

I think he's an intelligent kind of bloke with well meaning intentions. I simply think he has run his race. Does he possibly know this 🤔 🤷‍♂️

If he reads the room correctly and indeed sees a bigger picture he might garner even greater respect by bowing out on his terms. He could do well to negotiate a deal to leave. Everyone's a winner and we move on.

Or .. ??

I don't think he would do this, delusions of granduer pervade and send intoxicating messages which become a persons reality, even though the reality is that you are failing.

Edited Monday at 21:582 days by picket fence

2 minutes ago, Deestar9 said:

The “happy clappers” read the room/thread. When the usual doomsayers (who by the way weren’t too unhappy last week) have reason to vent no point in trying to post any other view. So go for it …have fun pointing every negative you can think of …not one positive in the club you follow …

I have been getting zero fun or enjoyment watching us. When it's patently obvious to those that see ( not just look ) what is wrong and yet all we get is spin ( a lot of bloody spin !! ) and repeat with only the settings on the machine changing a bit now and then but the results are damn near the same. Where are these positives ??

The most damning fact of this Club is that more often than not it isn't even the opposition that beats us.. We manage that quite nicely all by ourselves by kicking us out of wins !!

How bloody clever are we ??

Btw... it's not up to me to provide these positives. There are folk paid, and paid extremely handsomely to do that. Not thinking it's much bang for buck atm.

Edited Monday at 22:052 days by beelzebub

The Club will do what it thinks best Re the coaching position. All the talk in the world here ain’t gonna change that, especially this year. So instead of all the destructive chat about sacking Goody, how about we put our thinking hats on and find some constructive ways we can improve this year. Here’s my take:

1. Solve our forward connection and we become a good side.

2. Why is our forward connection so bad? I believe at least 80% of the issue is delivery, and probably 20% forward line personnel.

3. How do we fix our delivery? Don’t play Tracc, Oliver or Viney as mids. Get players in the middle who can deliver. Kossie, Langford, Bowie, Laurie for example.

4. Let Tracc, Oliver, And Viney earn the right to play as a mid by improving their delivery skills. If they can’t then they play up forward or warm the bench, or go to Casey.

That’s my 2 cents worth.

17 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

The Club will do what it thinks best Re the coaching position. All the talk in the world here ain’t gonna change that, especially this year. So instead of all the destructive chat about sacking Goody, how about we put our thinking hats on and find some constructive ways we can improve this year. Here’s my take:

1. Solve our forward connection and we become a good side.

2. Why is our forward connection so bad? I believe at least 80% of the issue is delivery, and probably 20% forward line personnel.

3. How do we fix our delivery? Don’t play Tracc, Oliver or Viney as mids. Get players in the middle who can deliver. Kossie, Langford, Bowie, Laurie for example.

4. Let Tracc, Oliver, And Viney earn the right to play as a mid by improving their delivery skills. If they can’t then they play up forward or warm the bench, or go to Casey.

That’s my 2 cents worth.

Youv'e got the gig if you want it!

How quickly people turn haha, Goody has done a great job changing the game plan and preparing us for a new style.

2 weeks ago we were great against the clear #1 team. These young guys have dropped off which is to be expected, which means our older guys are back to doing the bulk of the work, unfortunately the game plan of the past 6 years is inbedded in them and they revert back to muscle memory.

The bye has come at a good time, about to his the hard slog of the season, so a refresh will be good.

15 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Plenty of good examples.

Craig Macrae took Collingwood from second last to a prelim and a flag the following year.

Luke Beveridge took the Dogs from bottom 6 to finals in his first year and a flag the following year.

Ken Hinkley took Port from a bottom four side to finals in his first year and a Prelim the year after.

Adam Simpson took West Coast from 13th to 9th and then a Grand Final in the following year.

Coaches aren't everything but they're a pretty important piece of the puzzle.

And one of the key observations here is that it didn't matter whether the previous coach had been there a short time or a long time, a new coach gave an instant lift.

I don't think Bing is necessarily wrong, it's easy to want to change a coach for the sake of it. The results from here on out are going to dictate terms unfortunately.

I'm still completely undecided on what should happen. I know the buck stops with the coach but I also can't help but feel that the club has failed to produce a good supporting cast around him these last couple of seasons. Chocco was such an amazing get in 2021 and his new ideas were taken to instantly. Luring someone like a Bartel could have had this exact same effect when the team was craving some change.

And it has been obvious that Goodwin needs his right hand strategist like Yze and Jennings. I believe we've found a good fit since then.

Whatever decision is made, you don't always have to be happy with it as a fan to accept that it may well be the right one.

2 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

What's your point? That changing coaches must be always successful to be worth it?

All you need to do is ask whether our team should be performing better than they are, if not why not?

In my view many of our issues are system based. Issues that have been present for a while and that Goodwin has not been able to fix. Therefore, changing coach is the correct call.

On your list management point. Teams make list changes every single year. But a senior coach has a major say in their vision for the list. So Goodwin has had a massive say in our list build.

Yep the system.

As mentioned above. Port had a better system not better players.

Dump it into your f50 and try and hold it in is not a good system.

I don't really watch enough AFL anymore to know who the up and comers are, but I think we need a younger bloke that focusses on a fast transition game style.

We should be looking for a good assistant (like Yze was. Geez I wish we'd put him in as coach but the timing probably wasn't appropriate) and promoting them in.

Goody has tried to make the change in system and it's failed. Continuously

He's acknowledged our shortcomings going forward for over 6 years now and hasn't resolved it.

Get the broom out

Edited Monday at 23:392 days by Brownie

9 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

The Club will do what it thinks best Re the coaching position. All the talk in the world here ain’t gonna change that, especially this year. So instead of all the destructive chat about sacking Goody, how about we put our thinking hats on and find some constructive ways we can improve this year. Here’s my take:

1. Solve our forward connection and we become a good side.

2. Why is our forward connection so bad? I believe at least 80% of the issue is delivery, and probably 20% forward line personnel.

3. How do we fix our delivery? Don’t play Tracc, Oliver or Viney as mids. Get players in the middle who can deliver. Kossie, Langford, Bowie, Laurie for example.

4. Let Tracc, Oliver, And Viney earn the right to play as a mid by improving their delivery skills. If they can’t then they play up forward or warm the bench, or go to Casey.

That’s my 2 cents worth.

There’s a bit in that, in terms of Trac being a very useful forward and moving forward as a group the midfield needs changing, Lindsay, Langford and Windsor would be worth giving cameo roles through the middle but a tank needs to be built for them to go through there.

Kossie is a massive point of difference through the middle and even giving Bowie a run through there would be worth looking at. Whatever the magnets Viney, Oliver and Trac can never be put in there unless it’s pouring rain and we need to just get it in deep

Dave calling SEN

Goodwin has to go he’s done nothing in 4 years

He won us a flag but that was in bloody Perth.

I think we know who Dave is

I think he has to go. Gameplay has slightly changed, but I wouldn’t say for the better. The issues have remained, ie long bombs and forward line. I think if they’re considering his contract, maybe make him an assist and promote someone else or get another new head coach.

10 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Goody has tried to make the change in system and it's failed. Continuously

He's acknowledged our shortcomings going forward for over 6 years now and hasn't resolved it.

Get the broom out

The senior coach ultimately has to take responsibility for sustained poor performance. Yes, the coach doesn’t manipulate the ball on the field but that person designs the strategy, oversees the coaching of that strategy, and picks the team that is intended to implement the strategy.

Hats off to our coach for identifying major problems like forward connection etc. But then it was not as if these were not visible to all, accredited senior coaches and the rest of us.

The problem though has been repetitive. Remember Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity (Google if you cannot remember it). So the repetition then marks him badly.

Either:

1. The strategy is flawed - possibly.

2. The coaching of the strategy is flawed - possibly.

3. The players selected to implement the strategy are flawed - definitely.

All of which come back to the senior coach and some of it (point 3) comes back to a shared responsibility between coach and recruiters.

Either way, the senior coach is responsible.

He keep persisting with players that do the same things.

1. Viney has consumed his own kool aid - thinking he is a brute force tank and does silly things repetitively. Why is he selected every week when he keeps kicking to the opposition?

2. Spargo is slow and cannot kick it far enough. He does tackle but that isn’t enough.

3. Petty is not a forward and should be in defence although his speed is a concern.

4. JVR is neither a forward or a ruck - he is a major liability in the forward line. I know all the arguments - youth, confidence, etc - but they do not explain his running patterns each week and his failure to mark. Look at Sam Darcy - similar age, games etc - he is a forward. Some say don’t play him in the ruck so he can concentrate on being a forward. For most of the last 20 or 25 games that has been the case and his performance has been dismal. Why keep selecting him?

5. Windsor - being wrecked by pushing him out of position.

I could go on.

We really haven’t been in contention since 2023 and even then.

So why has the senior coach insisted on trying some of the contenders that we have acquired from the draft?

For all those reasons, and some more, 9 years is enough and a dignified exit should be encouraged by the MFC management.

The costs of inaction will be continued mediocrity, lost memberships, lost sponsors, and a dismal period for those who stay loyal to the red and blue.

It doesn’t matter if the game plan has been changed because it doesn’t matter what the game plan is if we keep bombing it in the f50, forwards don’t lead and we keep kicking points!!

Like I have said previously Goodwin can’t seem to fix it and has had ample time to do so. I’s time to move him on.

1 hour ago, Neil Crompton said:

The Club will do what it thinks best Re the coaching position. All the talk in the world here ain’t gonna change that, especially this year. So instead of all the destructive chat about sacking Goody, how about we put our thinking hats on and find some constructive ways we can improve this year. Here’s my take:

1. Solve our forward connection and we become a good side.

2. Why is our forward connection so bad? I believe at least 80% of the issue is delivery, and probably 20% forward line personnel.

3. How do we fix our delivery? Don’t play Tracc, Oliver or Viney as mids. Get players in the middle who can deliver. Kossie, Langford, Bowie, Laurie for example.

4. Let Tracc, Oliver, And Viney earn the right to play as a mid by improving their delivery skills. If they can’t then they play up forward or warm the bench, or go to Casey.

That’s my 2 cents worth.

Completely agree. I think we need to see if anything improves with different people playing more midfield time. Let's give Kozzy, Windsor, Riv, Langford and maybe even Xav Lindsay and Chin a go, even Laurie as well. Better service would help us get more constructive looks at goal, maybe not accuracy but it's a good start.

6 hours ago, bing181 said:

OK. Now, across the same time period:

a) list all of the examples where changes of coach didn't bring about substantial or lasting improvement. You're cherry picking.

b) add in the changes in personnel/players and/or list development for those clubs/coaches for the years in question. You're ignoring other factors than just the change in coach.

If changing coaches was the panacea, how come with the Dees from the end of Daniher (2007) until the arrival of Goodwin (2017) when we had 3 coaches and 3 interim coaches, we never managed to finish higher than 11th - though most of those years we were lower than that?

Goodwin got handed over a strong list from Roos.

He then proceeded to underachiever with said list. Flag aside and 2018 aside, I can't feel anything but like wasted opportunity for more success between 2017-2024.

2 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

The Club will do what it thinks best Re the coaching position. All the talk in the world here ain’t gonna change that, especially this year. So instead of all the destructive chat about sacking Goody, how about we put our thinking hats on and find some constructive ways we can improve this year. Here’s my take:

1. Solve our forward connection and we become a good side.

That’s my 2 cents worth.

go watch the second half. our forward connection was much better. our biggest problem by far this year is kicking for goal. by far.

41 minutes ago, William said:

The senior coach ultimately has to take responsibility for sustained poor performance. Yes, the coach doesn’t manipulate the ball on the field but that person designs the strategy, oversees the coaching of that strategy, and picks the team that is intended to implement the strategy.

Hats off to our coach for identifying major problems like forward connection etc. But then it was not as if these were not visible to all, accredited senior coaches and the rest of us.

The problem though has been repetitive. Remember Einstein’s Parable of Quantum Insanity (Google if you cannot remember it). So the repetition then marks him badly.

Either:

1. The strategy is flawed - possibly.

2. The coaching of the strategy is flawed - possibly.

3. The players selected to implement the strategy are flawed - definitely.

All of which come back to the senior coach and some of it (point 3) comes back to a shared responsibility between coach and recruiters.

Either way, the senior coach is responsible.

He keep persisting with players that do the same things.

1. Viney has consumed his own kool aid - thinking he is a brute force tank and does silly things repetitively. Why is he selected every week when he keeps kicking to the opposition?

2. Spargo is slow and cannot kick it far enough. He does tackle but that isn’t enough.

3. Petty is not a forward and should be in defence although his speed is a concern.

4. JVR is neither a forward or a ruck - he is a major liability in the forward line. I know all the arguments - youth, confidence, etc - but they do not explain his running patterns each week and his failure to mark. Look at Sam Darcy - similar age, games etc - he is a forward. Some say don’t play him in the ruck so he can concentrate on being a forward. For most of the last 20 or 25 games that has been the case and his performance has been dismal. Why keep selecting him?

5. Windsor - being wrecked by pushing him out of position.

I could go on.

We really haven’t been in contention since 2023 and even then.

So why has the senior coach insisted on trying some of the contenders that we have acquired from the draft?

For all those reasons, and some more, 9 years is enough and a dignified exit should be encouraged by the MFC management.

The costs of inaction will be continued mediocrity, lost memberships, lost sponsors, and a dismal period for those who stay loyal to the red and blue.

Um, agree a zillion %

12 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Dateline 2036:

I'd like to begin by thanking our sponsors... surprisingly still here.. yes Hertz to be Melbourne

..and anything resembling a game plan is just a Furphy !!

Thanks to Haymes.... no better for painting over cracks than Haymes.

Want Learnings and Insights then IG are your people. We certainly rate Learnings here at Melbourne.

We've identified some of our problems with scoring effectively. We've traced it to some guys out there who can't kick for [censored] !! We've implemented some changes to strategies to compensate for this as we've no real ideas as to how to teach anyone to kick. We're also disbanding our forward line as it really hasn't worked too well these past 15 years and we need to move with the game. We'll now add players to the midfield and stack the backline as we concentrate more on defence.

Whilst you're all here I'd like to address rumours of Max Gawn’s retirement... totally unfounded and we expect him to go around next year. You can take that to the bank. We recommend Beyond.

We also have Max's golden boots insured by Zurich..

Go ... ummm... go.... umm... just Go you good team.

Nap time

Edited Tuesday at 00:592 days by beelzebub

23 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Goodwin got handed over a strong list from Roos.

He then proceeded to underachiever with said list. Flag aside and 2018 aside, I can't feel anything but like wasted opportunity for more success between 2017-2024.

What an utterly bonkers post.

Our 2016 list included Dawes, Lumumba, Stretch, Kent, Ben Newton, Garland, Pederson, Michie, JKH, Weideman, Hulett, Bugg, Mitch King, Ben Kennedy, Mitch White, Josh Wagner, Dean Jones, Terlich and Max King. Plus poor old Grimes and Trengove whose careers and bodies were shot.

In what world was that a “strong list”?

But then I love “flag aside”. He’s underachieved so long as you just ignore the [censored] premiership we won.

[censored] me.