3 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Mind you in 2023 they extended him before finals. Should have let him earn the extension by delivering in September.

We aren't a clever club are we

1 hour ago, KozzyCan said:

Are you basing this on expected score? With the exception of the Giants game that argument only works if our opponents also don't kick above average in those games.

Too much being left too small margins either way.

I’m just pointing out that it’s not all bad. Incredibly disappointing that we have gone backwards at goal kicking and the same problems still exist but they are absolutely fixable. I’m leaning toward new coach but think that’s unlikely this year.

Edited June 16Jun 16 by Roost it far

What’s even more damning for Goodwin is that we’ve barely got an injury.

Aside from Spargo and McAdam (who never plays anyway) we had a full list to choose from on Sunday and still delivered that slop. There’s a lot of clubs that would kill for our injury list at the moment.

27 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Doesn't even need to be elite kicking Sir Why. Converting at average AFL standard would paint a much different picture

Yes you are right, but Goodwin like the wide entries, so the Goal Kicking does require more skill. I have never understood why it is not Top Priority at Training

Look at how Powerful our Midfield was in the GF, once the Dogs were out of gas

Imagine if we had kicked 15 points rather than goals

The difference in accuracy is massive

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes you are right, but Goodwin like the wide entries, so the Goal Kicking does require more skill. I have never understood why it is not Top Priority at Training

Look at how Powerful our Midfield was in the GF, once the Dogs were out of gas

Imagine if we had kicked 15 points rather than goals

The difference in accuracy is massive

Sobering

5 hours ago, VNightCityLegend said:

Round 3, 2017 v Geelong:

"It was frustrating. Clearly you've got to kick goals to win games of footy and we didn't do that today,"

Round 5, 2018 v richmond

"We didn't connect well forward of centre. It's been a little bit of a tale of some of our games this year where we've struggled to connect and have efficiency inside forward 50.”

Round 21, 2018 v Sydney

"We didn't connect well forward of centre. It's been a little bit of a tale of some of our games this year where we've struggled to connect and have efficiency inside forward 50.”

Round 6, 2019 v Richmond

"We had our opportunities through the middle of the ground, but we couldn't connect with our handball and our kicking,"

Round 15 and 16, 2020 against lowly Sydney and Freo were the same. Inefficiency cost us finals.

Now 2022 onwards, the same old BS keep repeating! Even after a flag, this club finds new ways of disappointing fans.

Inefficiency, moving the ball inside 50 and goal kicking has been an issue ever since Goodwin took over. 2021 was better, but we were still 10th overall for inside 50 to goal conversion.

Simply unsustainable. So much energy finding the ball only to squander chance after chance, it is little wonder why we have experienced severe mental and physical burnout. Idiotic coaching and man management from the entire football department in general.

I envy the likes of Collingwood and Geelong, I really do.. they just find answers to problems and often than not solve them in quick time.

Brilliant summary. I'd forgotten how long this has been an obvious problem

19 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

We aren't a clever club are we

Hell no and to top it off we play dumb dumb dumb footy.

Our list is good but a bit overrated now, it’s not 2021.

We need to remember the age of two of our champs in Gawn & May coming towards the end (even though Max is defying logic).

Pertracca Clarry Lever Salem Fritsch & Petty have gone backwards, Rivers & Sparrow have stalled

Vineys body has taken a pummeling

We’re getting plenty of game time into some very good kids which is exciting

The forward line is a disaster & Tmac was in our TOP 5 players & can't get a game????

Of this list, Bowey, Turner, Kozzie & Chandler have improved

Surely this is all on the coach now, the midfield & forward line have not changed, we would have to be the easiest team to coach against

We need to act now, there’s two premiership coaches out there & Buckley, surely one of these three can get more out of this goof but not great list

Edited June 16Jun 16 by Billy

39 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

It's a little Schroedinger and at same time not. Does that make it Schroedinger-Schroedinger ??

Changing coaches guarantees nothing other than different. Goody goes, Someone comes ... what changes ?? Well that's the $64 question though probability and logic suggests it won't be the same. Better ?? Who the ..... knows. Ideally you have ( that is club has ) chosen someone displaying a new direction.

Or... do nothing...get nowhere.

Nowhere ?? Well the same b.s. has been rolled out year after year. ( refer post above somwhere references Goodwin press conferences.. same,same , same ... and...................yep )

The Brickwall needs a rest !

Edit.. credit Vnightcitylegend for highlighting how Goody has been espousing the same [censored] for years !!!

Edited June 16Jun 16 by beelzebub

This club constantly makes poor decisions. Oliver ,Tracc long term contracts,now Kozzie . Goodwin gets an extension based on poor team performance i.e 2 straight set exits from finals.

The recruitment of Grundy and the fact we did not play him in the finals . The recruitment of Jones as a midfield coach. Constantly trying to get Petty or Turner to become decent forwards, the decline of JVR etc. It is time for Goody to go along with the rest of the coaching staff .... they are all gone stale.

Personally I think we will win another 2 - 3 games . Essendon are rubbing their hands together as they are going to get our first round pick.

There won't be many changes next match , you can bet you bottom dollar on it.

2 minutes ago, junk said:

This club constantly makes poor decisions. Oliver ,Tracc long term contracts,now Kozzie . Goodwin gets an extension based on poor team performance i.e 2 straight set exits from finals.

The recruitment of Grundy and the fact we did not play him in the finals . The recruitment of Jones as a midfield coach. Constantly trying to get Petty or Turner to become decent forwards, the decline of JVR etc. It is time for Goody to go along with the rest of the coaching staff .... they are all gone stale.

Personally I think we will win another 2 - 3 games . Essendon are rubbing their hands together as they are going to get our first round pick.

There won't be many changes next match , you can bet you bottom dollar on it.

Well outlined. I agree with that. Its the club that continues to make poor decisions. Therefore it should come as little surprise that we are stuck with a low IQ coach like Goodwin.

6 hours ago, VNightCityLegend said:

Round 3, 2017 v Geelong:

"It was frustrating. Clearly you've got to kick goals to win games of footy and we didn't do that today,"

Round 5, 2018 v richmond

"We didn't connect well forward of centre. It's been a little bit of a tale of some of our games this year where we've struggled to connect and have efficiency inside forward 50.”

Round 21, 2018 v Sydney

"We didn't connect well forward of centre. It's been a little bit of a tale of some of our games this year where we've struggled to connect and have efficiency inside forward 50.”

Round 6, 2019 v Richmond

"We had our opportunities through the middle of the ground, but we couldn't connect with our handball and our kicking,"

Round 15 and 16, 2020 against lowly Sydney and Freo were the same. Inefficiency cost us finals.

Now 2022 onwards, the same old BS keep repeating! Even after a flag, this club finds new ways of disappointing fans.

Inefficiency, moving the ball inside 50 and goal kicking has been an issue ever since Goodwin took over. 2021 was better, but we were still 10th overall for inside 50 to goal conversion.

Simply unsustainable. So much energy finding the ball only to squander chance after chance, it is little wonder why we have experienced severe mental and physical burnout. Idiotic coaching and man management from the entire football department in general.

I envy the likes of Collingwood and Geelong, I really do.. they just find answers to problems and often than not solve them in quick time.

Man, if someone from the media could take this to a presser of his and read it out to him. It would be all time.

Sometimes I genuinely can't tell if he's just taking the [censored] at pressers or if he just struggles to expand on questions and freezes up/gets anxious in a public forum.

I always hope it's the latter.

Whilst we're on the topic, I'd take Buckley and an overhaul of some assistant coaches in a heartbeat at the end of the year if it Goody's payout wasn't crazy big. I don't know the details, but I just get the feeling Goody's messaging regardless of the 'progress' we're seeing, (are we though?), is getting so very stale around the playing group.

From a business perspective, membership is way down and I’d expect it to drop significantly, again, for 2026.

Contest and defence does not hold supporters hearts for very long, especially when it’s losing more than it’s winning.

If we lose another 10k members at $600+ each, that’s a much greater sum than Goody’s payout.

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

What’s even more damning for Goodwin is that we’ve barely got an injury.

Aside from Spargo and McAdam (who never plays anyway) we had a full list to choose from on Sunday and still delivered that slop. There’s a lot of clubs that would kill for our injury list at the moment.

Unfortunately, this is correct (although right now I’d love to see if AMW could make a bit of a difference to our ball movement).

We’ve had a comparatively smooth run with injuries this year.

Yet we’re bottom 4 at the bye.

6 minutes ago, Demonland said:

The Velvet Sledgehammer is RIGHT ON THE MONEY!

30 minutes ago, Howard_Grimes said:

Man, if someone from the media could take this to a presser of his and read it out to him. It would be all time.

Sometimes I genuinely can't tell if he's just taking the [censored] at pressers or if he just struggles to expand on questions and freezes up/gets anxious in a public forum.

I always hope it's the latter.

Whilst we're on the topic, I'd take Buckley and an overhaul of some assistant coaches in a heartbeat at the end of the year if it Goody's payout wasn't crazy big. I don't know the details, but I just get the feeling Goody's messaging regardless of the 'progress' we're seeing, (are we though?), is getting so very stale around the playing group.

Wth did Buckley ever achieve? Game has gone past him. Honestly don’t know who you’d go after though. Someone who values system and the modern game with skills is a must though.

4 hours ago, picket fence said:

Except the one where he kicked straight to the port player who duly goaled, or was that Mc Vee?

Bowie

Jeez the jungle drums are cranking

Not sure if it’s Danny Carey, Matt Cameron or Brad Wilk, but they’re being hammered.

44 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Goody coach for life!

We have had the same problem forever with rubbish inside 50's, not kicking straight no key forward targets. Goodwin has to go at year's end for Longmire 2 years of rubbish. Time to go Goody!

6 hours ago, Adam The God said:

There is definitely a middle ground, bing.

A different coach could change things, but Goody is also coaching to the list that won a flag and finished top 4 with the old game style.

IMV, our best approach is to be super aggressive with list management, make some tough decisions at the end of 2025 and let Goody coach for his Melbourne career in 2026.

I’d like to see new line coaches, Goody has the players and I’ve said many times you can see the changes but we would have periods where old habits such as bombing into F50 would happen. Some fresh voices and Choco needs to go IMO

Edited June 16Jun 16 by Pennant St Dee

What’s the go with Brendon McCarteny ? Is he still around - he did wonders for the group in the early days.

9 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Plenty of good examples.

Craig Macrae took Collingwood from second last to a prelim and a flag the following year.

Luke Beveridge took the Dogs from bottom 6 to finals in his first year and a flag the following year.

Ken Hinkley took Port from a bottom four side to finals in his first year and a Prelim the year after.

Adam Simpson took West Coast from 13th to 9th and then a Grand Final in the following year.

OK. Now, across the same time period:

a) list all of the examples where changes of coach didn't bring about substantial or lasting improvement. You're cherry picking.

b) add in the changes in personnel/players and/or list development for those clubs/coaches for the years in question. You're ignoring other factors than just the change in coach.

If changing coaches was the panacea, how come with the Dees from the end of Daniher (2007) until the arrival of Goodwin (2017) when we had 3 coaches and 3 interim coaches, we never managed to finish higher than 11th - though most of those years we were lower than that?

4 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I’d like to see new line coaches

Effectively, we have new line coaches. Every line changed from last year and the only line coach in the same position is Chaplin. Radford, Jones and Bassett are all new.

You can only work with the material at your disposal.