Dan Houston is top 5 in the league at the moment in damaging use of the footy. Hayden Young is #1.

Any wonder we're interested in him given the slop we've been dishing in week in week out.

Giving up a top 10 pick and potentially more is a valid argument against trading for Houston, but it doesn't take away the fact that he'd be instantly our best user of the footy, and easily top 10 in the league. Better than peak Salem.

4 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Lots to consider. Where is the list at, where is our window at?

I personally believe in the next 4-5 years we can rebound and have a couple of goes at a flag.  Trac, Clarry especially  are generational players that you can't replace. If the club agrees with this, then we can't just top up with draft picks, we need senior players to come in especially with Gus gone, and May and others getting over the hill. This was Hawthorn's approach before their 3 in a row.

Top up with senior bodies in 25-28yo range. We lack leadership and depth across the ground. 

So if not Houston, then who?  And yes, you have to give up good picks for good contracted players.

Pick 7 from 2020-2022- Josh Ward, Cameron MacKenzie, Elijah Hollands

So do we think Pick 7 or an experienced AA defender would better help us win a flag?  How many AA defenders have we had in the past 10 years, 1 in May maybe?  No doubt his kicking and experience would be huge for us. We have gone to the draft a lot in the past 3-4 years with plenty of youth coming through

My opinion, Pick 7 for Houston would be a good deal for us.  Pick 7 + F1? = hell no

Agree that people overrate early picks, especially once they fall out of the top high end range of a particular draft. And the strange thing about this draft is it might be even between 5-15. So whilst 7 is a great pick it might not be much better than 15.

But I also think you need an elite midfield to contend for flags as well as talls with an advantage somewhere on the ground.

May, Max and to a lesser level Lever were our advantage in talls. It's fair to say May and Max aren't at that level anymore, even if Gawn is All Australian he's finished the last 3 years hobbling along with injuries. And Lever worries me too, he was in great form before injury this year but has regressed badly since and whether he will have the agility and fitness to go with smalls so he can dominate as an interceptor off them is hard to know.

There's optimism with Petty, JVR, Jeffo, Disco that we have a solid platform of talls but its not exactly a strength anywhere.

Midfield - well that's even more up in the air. Oliver - who knows. Viney - looks pretty spent as a dominant inside force. Tracc - I have my doubts on his midfield longevity especially at his pre injury size. Sparrow - barely AFL standard as a mid. Pickett - not a mid. Kolt and Windsor - promising but probably going to have some second year blues and ups and downs on their way to 70 games like most kids before becoming consistent.

Does Rivers play mid? Does Houston come in and play mid? Nothing is going to compare to the Tracc-Oliver-Viney 2021 combo but it's getting hard to see just how we produce a midfield big 3 plus quality role players even if those big 3 are still on the list.

The Hawks went all in on Roughy, Buddy/Gunston, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Rioli, Isaac Smith, Birchall because that's a group you could just ride with. Especially when they added Gibson, Lake and Frawley so they had backline tall dominance as well as forwards and mids.

The price has to be right for Houston and we need some associated moves to find other missing pieces to pull off this retool on the run. 

 

On 05/08/2024 at 11:47, DeeSpencer said:

I’m not going to speculate on Oliver but the footy he’s currently serving up is horrendous.

Petracca, Pickett and ANB are better overall forwards than Fritsch. JVR should be soon. Heck I wouldn’t be surprised if Chandler finishes higher in the B+F.

We are playing with 17 on the field when one guy constantly tries to get out the back, never chases, tackles with no intent or technique so consistently gives away free kicks and can’t play in any other role. 

Getting out the back is a time-honoured profession. Fritsch got out the back in the 2021 GF and won us the premiership. Barry Vagg was a goal-sneak, Teddy Hopkins the same. You don't want these lightly-framed players getting exhausted racking up the K's and then being unable to perform their magic.

11 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

He would have been perfect maybe 2021/2022 but for the now and the future, no thanks.

Give me a Sid Draper or a Sam Lalor who are going to be bona fide midfield stars for the next 10-12 years.

 

I really like Langford and the dream of he and Petracca being goal kicking mids who go forward and make an impact, but i get the feeling he'll go in the top 5 and be just out of reach unfortunately. 

9 minutes ago, bush demon said:

Getting out the back is a time-honoured profession. Fritsch got out the back in the 2021 GF and won us the premiership. Barry Vagg was a goal-sneak, Teddy Hopkins the same. You don't want these lightly-framed players getting exhausted racking up the K's and then being unable to perform their magic.

Fritsch's most noticeable grand final goals came from leading up at the footy, jumping over opponents or on the back of great pressure from the likes of Kossie and Spargo.

It's great there were goal sneaks in 1963 or whenever those guys played but Fritsch has been dining out on the grand final for 3 years now. 

9 minutes ago, Ted Lasso said:

I really like Langford and the dream of he and Petracca being goal kicking mids who go forward and make an impact, but i get the feeling he'll go in the top 5 and be just out of reach unfortunately. 

Langford is a beauty. Bigger bodied mid too at around the 191cm mark. 

The type of player that would be a round 1 starter without hesitation. 

14 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Agree that people overrate early picks, especially once they fall out of the top high end range of a particular draft. And the strange thing about this draft is it might be even between 5-15. So whilst 7 is a great pick it might not be much better than 15.

But I also think you need an elite midfield to contend for flags as well as talls with an advantage somewhere on the ground.

May, Max and to a lesser level Lever were our advantage in talls. It's fair to say May and Max aren't at that level anymore, even if Gawn is All Australian he's finished the last 3 years hobbling along with injuries. And Lever worries me too, he was in great form before injury this year but has regressed badly since and whether he will have the agility and fitness to go with smalls so he can dominate as an interceptor off them is hard to know.

There's optimism with Petty, JVR, Jeffo, Disco that we have a solid platform of talls but its not exactly a strength anywhere.

Midfield - well that's even more up in the air. Oliver - who knows. Viney - looks pretty spent as a dominant inside force. Tracc - I have my doubts on his midfield longevity especially at his pre injury size. Sparrow - barely AFL standard as a mid. Pickett - not a mid. Kolt and Windsor - promising but probably going to have some second year blues and ups and downs on their way to 70 games like most kids before becoming consistent.

Does Rivers play mid? Does Houston come in and play mid? Nothing is going to compare to the Tracc-Oliver-Viney 2021 combo but it's getting hard to see just how we produce a midfield big 3 plus quality role players even if those big 3 are still on the list.

The Hawks went all in on Roughy, Buddy/Gunston, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Rioli, Isaac Smith, Birchall because that's a group you could just ride with. Especially when they added Gibson, Lake and Frawley so they had backline tall dominance as well as forwards and mids.

The price has to be right for Houston and we need some associated moves to find other missing pieces to pull off this retool on the run. 

 

Some good points

I personally think Clarry will back to his best next year. You don't lose talent overnight.  And Trac will be back to his best. So with these 2 you have to go all-in while they are in their prime imo. Clarry just turned 27 last month.

If we go all in with the draft, we will regret it in 5 years when there is no Trac, Clarry, Lever, Langdon, Viney etc. What are the odds of us drafting anyone close to as good to Trac or Clarry? But of course we need more mids to come in.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic!

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Langford is a beauty. Bigger bodied mid too at around the 191cm mark. 

The type of player that would be a round 1 starter without hesitation. 

He’s my pick if we keep our first rounder - although not sure if he would slide to pick 6 or 7

Sam Lalor the next cab off the rank if available 

There is a difference between good drafting and having good draft picks.

The advantages of trading picks for good established AFL players are several. Firstly, it takes away the risk of blowing up your draft capital. Secondly, it helps to finish higher up the ladder, which in turn enables you to retain talent without overpaying for players and it helps to recruit free agents and players from other clubs when they come out of contract in future years.

The draft is highly compromised now with the academies/father sons and it is still very inefficient because the gap between under 18 football and the AFL is enormous. This means that players like Turner, McVee and Chandler (and Houston ironically) completely slip through the net.

Managing the salary cap is much more important given the compromised and inefficient draft and because player movement is almost entirely dictated by the players.

On 05/08/2024 at 23:56, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Essendon would.

So would Geelong if my source is correct!

Sparrow and a future first sounds about right to me. I'll be dirty if we trade our way out of the first round this year for a 28 year old half back (as good as he is) 

I'd be surprised if Houston isn't a dee next year. 2 firsts is very steep for me but I don't think the club are worried about firsts right now with the picks they would get for Clarry, and dare I say a certain new converted midfielder who wants to go back home to WA

I disagree however, the draft is steep this year and look at the impact Windsor has had at the club. We could stay in our premiership window and rebuild at the same time like good clubs do, and like we did getting in Jackson and Pickett

 

I'd hate for the club to discard 2 first picks for a 28 year old 

1 minute ago, Deez21 said:

I'd be surprised if Houston isn't a dee next year. 2 firsts is very steep for me but I don't think the club are worried about firsts right now with the picks they would get for Clarry, and dare I say a certain new converted midfielder who wants to go back home to WA

I disagree however, the draft is steep this year and look at the impact Windsor has had at the club. We could stay in our premiership window and rebuild at the same time like good clubs do, and like we did getting in Jackson and Pickett

 

I'd hate for the club to discard 2 first picks for a 28 year old 

Losing one of Clarry or Rivers (or both), then still going for Houston would make no sense

51 minutes ago, demoncat said:

He’s my pick if we keep our first rounder - although not sure if he would slide to pick 6 or 7

Sam Lalor the next cab off the rank if available 

Reminds me of Gulden and Blakey, but with a tougher edge.

Lalor looks great too. Still like Draper's burst from stoppage, but Langford has the burst from stoppage and ball use.

13 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Do you expect FacePalm emojies because the player in question is Fritta? What about posts in this thread suggesting trading Spaz? Or Chin Chandler? None of these posts should expect FacePalms because none of them are insulting.

I'd be trading all of Sparrow, Spargo and Chandler before letting Fritsch go. He kicks more goals than all combined. All 4 dont get much of the ball, so keep the one with the most bang for buck.

20 minutes ago, Deez21 said:

I'd be surprised if Houston isn't a dee next year. 2 firsts is very steep for me but I don't think the club are worried about firsts right now with the picks they would get for Clarry, and dare I say a certain new converted midfielder who wants to go back home to WA
 

Do you have any inside info that Clarry and Rivers will be traded or are you just speculating?

We would be full rebuild mode if they both leave

22 minutes ago, Deez21 said:

I'd be surprised if Houston isn't a dee next year. 2 firsts is very steep for me but I don't think the club are worried about firsts right now with the picks they would get for Clarry, and dare I say a certain new converted midfielder who wants to go back home to WA

I disagree however, the draft is steep this year and look at the impact Windsor has had at the club. We could stay in our premiership window and rebuild at the same time like good clubs do, and like we did getting in Jackson and Pickett

 

I'd hate for the club to discard 2 first picks for a 28 year old 

Rivers wants to go home?

Fritsch, Rivers, Oliver.... Hell some are in a counter universe

42 minutes ago, Deez21 said:

I'd be surprised if Houston isn't a dee next year. 2 firsts is very steep for me but I don't think the club are worried about firsts right now with the picks they would get for Clarry, and dare I say a certain new converted midfielder who wants to go back home to WA

I disagree however, the draft is steep this year and look at the impact Windsor has had at the club. We could stay in our premiership window and rebuild at the same time like good clubs do, and like we did getting in Jackson and Pickett

 

I'd hate for the club to discard 2 first picks for a 28 year old 

You're becoming my new favourite poster with all this inside info of late..

Keep it up. The Rivers one certainly catches me by surprise considering how settled he is in Melbourne with his supermodel Melbourne based girlfriend.

Very big off season coming up for the dees.

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You're becoming my new favourite poster with all this inside info of late..

Keep it up. The Rivers one certainly catches me by surprise considering how settled he is in Melbourne with his supermodel Melbourne based girlfriend.

Very big off season coming up for the dees.

She moved from Brisbane to be with him, don’t think she’s fully entrenched here.

if true though, this news is a surprise I agree. 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Fritsch's most noticeable grand final goals came from leading up at the footy, jumping over opponents or on the back of great pressure from the likes of Kossie and Spargo.

It's great there were goal sneaks in 1963 or whenever those guys played but Fritsch has been dining out on the grand final for 3 years now. 

i'd say he's dined out on defences for the last several years...

brilliant 2021 culminating in being second on the goalkickers list and 6 goals in a premiership

excellent 2022, finishing 5th on the goalkickers list

injury hit year in 2023, but was right in the mix when he broke his foot

currently 12th on it in 2024

your disdain for him is clear, but why you feel the need to denigrate his performances i simply do not understand

I feel for Dan, he seems to be aging at an incredible rate

He doesn't turn 28 for another 9 months!

35 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Rivers wants to go home?

First I’ve heard of it. Maybe @Deez21 could back up this assertion with source/facts etc (?)

As for Clarrie… folks need to get used to it that he’s NOT going anywhere. He won’t be traded. It can and probs will still be debated but it’s moot.

Fritsch? Also not going anywhere. Rumours are exactly that… rumours. He and Nat wouldn’t even entertain the thought of leaving Coldstream let alone moving to another state. 

21 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You're becoming my new favourite poster with all this inside info of late..

Keep it up. The Rivers one certainly catches me by surprise considering how settled he is in Melbourne with his supermodel Melbourne based girlfriend.

Very big off season coming up for the dees.

Is this necessary?

Were she was a hairdresser would you have felt the need to describe her as such?

 

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

So would Geelong if my source is correct!

Maybe Essendon and Geelong would be interested in having Clarrie but it matters not coz CLAZ AIN’T GOIN ANYWHERE!

Those on here who’d like to see Clarrie traded out need to build a bridge etc.

Never fear, PF. You’ll be goin’ all Clarrie Choo Choo on us for a loooong time. 😁