PREGAME: Rd 18 vs Essendon

[binman 43,752]

3 minutes ago, dice said:

In your previous comment, you inferred Amiss hadn't improved.

And I brought up Petty as a side note to the relevance of this thread. My apologies

He hasn’t improved this season. His goal kicking accuracy has fallen off a cliff for example.

Agree he will improve. Plenty of upside.

Like jvr he's still a kid and development isn't linear. 

[beelzebub 23,383]

21 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I think Turner is a more capable player around the ground than Fullarton and Petty/JVR will compete harder in the centre bounces than Fullarton.

It is not that odd. Goodwin and the coaches would have considered the pros and cons. Fullarton has not shown himself to be an AFL standard player and has never played an AFL game as a first ruckman.

 

And yet hes an emergency which to me negates the notion he can't play at AFL 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

2 hours ago, Chook said:

Petty has had a lot of trouble getting into the game as a forward. Having him be a defensive ruck following Draper around the ground and helping out defensively could work very well in theory.

1. Gets him into the game
2. Utilises his defensive nous and knowledge of the backline structure
3. Potentially providing a good marking target down the ground
4. Keeps the forward line open for players who know what they're doing (Roo, Melk, Fritta, Kosi) to go to work

Better than Fullerton, who wouldn't really be able to do any of that

I suspect that this is the rationale Chook that SImon is using. My question is does Petty have the tank and can he contest the bounces. He is an ok leap

[rpfc 28,768]

18 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

Exactly how I would have gone and how I thought we'd go.

Petty, JVR and Disco 10 minutes each per quarter.

Happy with this and excited to see how we go with it.

Is that how we are going?

My guess is Petty and JVR sharing near half and half. 

My ‘dark horse pick’ is Petty back and TMac sharing ruck with JVR.

 

[dice 712]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

He hasn’t improved this season. His goal kicking accuracy has fallen off a cliff for example.

Agree he will improve. Plenty of upside.

Like jvr he's still a kid and development isn't linear. 

Hasn't improved? He has missed 1 game this season! Freo are 3rd on the ladder. He is integral to that team.

And there are 7 games to go. Currently tracking improvement on lots of stats from last year:
https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_player_profile.html?ID=140bfb2

[Abyssal 465]

13 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Yeah nah… I’ve NEVER taken a potshot at Tom Fullarton. In fact, I’ve never taken a potshot at any player. You must be thinking of another poster. 🤷‍♀️ 

 

The definition of a “pot shot” is quite subjective. My recollection is, I believe before WCE in Perth, you “potted” my suggestion of Fullarton coming in for the match with comments that were not complementary to the player.
That’s my recollection and no, I haven’t gone back to check, preferring not to spend anymore time on a forum than necessary, which on the contrary could lead to eventually becoming obsessive, prejudiced and perpetually wearing a “one eyed blinker”.

As I said “it’s subjective”, and all opinions are just that. That’s something, IMO, that is lost on a select clique in this place.

[Adam The God 30,407]

16 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Is that how we are going?

My guess is Petty and JVR sharing near half and half. 

My ‘dark horse pick’ is Petty back and TMac sharing ruck with JVR.

 

I think it'll more likely be 50/50 Petty and Turner tbh. Goody signalled in his presser that we have to balance JVRs dominance as a forward vs rucking him.

[binman 43,752]

17 minutes ago, dice said:

Hasn't improved? He has missed 1 game this season! Freo are 3rd on the ladder. He is integral to that team.

And there are 7 games to go. Currently tracking improvement on lots of stats from last year:
https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_player_profile.html?ID=140bfb2

For pete's sake, did you even read those stats?

Sheesh.

Last season his player rating was 7.21 and this season it is 4.73. 

And there is barely a single stat he had improved.

For example his numbers for marks, contested marks and goals - stats I assume you agree are kpis for a KPF - are all down this season.

In fact based on his numbers you could make a case that not only had he not improved, hes gone backwards 

Feels like you are arguing for arguing sakes. 

Edited July 12 by binman

[BangBnagBang 703]

18 hours ago, Jibroni said:

Sam Draper must be licking his chops. On face value it does make us more mobile but I anticipate clearance numbers will be down without a genuine ruck.

Winning center clearance hasn't been our strong suit this year

18 hours ago, seventyfour said:

A loss at the selection table is the worst kind of loss, as it's an avoidable one.

Let's hope that's not the case on Saturday, otherwise it adds to a long list with Goodwin.

 

18 hours ago, Dee*ceiving said:

I do agree we've lost more than a few at selection.  

Definitely a gamble...

Name a game we lost a selection????

18 hours ago, kozzyisalegend said:

Mabior chol was up for grabs and we didn't even talk to him....

600-700K vs 250-300

17 hours ago, picket fence said:

If he aint better than Petty as a forward ??! Please give me a break!!

You mean the CHF v bris that took 8 marks 5 contested.

 

1 hour ago, sue said:

A lot of furious hindsight being thrown around here about poor selection decisions in the past, the basis of which we don't know.  For example, Schache was an unused sub for 2023 semifinal. On the face of it seemed madness.

But do we have all the facts that guided the selection committee?  Maybe there was someone in the team who had a serious injury concern about whether they could run out the game. Club felt they were good enough to take the risk of playing him and Schache was insurance for that player. But it turned out he was not needed, so in hindsight a different player would have been a better sub.  Not saying there was and it wasn't a bungle, just saying we never know all the facts so we should temper our outrage.

Our cupboard is rather bare - how many teams could lose 3.5 of their best players and be confident of winning by putting in players who have not impressed at VFL level. And Essendon are full of confidence (hopefully over full).  If we lose we'll need deeper analysis of why, rather than just putting it down to selection mistakes.

You mean like Gawn who went into the game with a broken toe type on injury???

[dice 712]

17 minutes ago, binman said:

For pete's sake, did you even read those stats?

Sheesh.

Last season his player rating was 7.21 and this season it is 4.73. 

And there is barely a single stat he had improved.

For example his numbers for marks, contested marks and goals - stats I assume you agree are kpis for a KPF - are all down this season.

In fact based on his numbers you could make a case that not only had he not improved, hes gone backwards 

Feels like you are arguing for arguing sakes. 

Not sure what stats you are looking at. He is currently on track for more kicks, kicking efficiency, disposals inside 50, metres gained, ground ball gets, inside 50 marks, more shots on goal, goal assists, tackles, pressure acts, spoils, one percenters on last year's stats.

And again, 7 games to go plus finals. Sheesh

Edited July 12 by dice

[picket fence 17,497]

5 minutes ago, BangBnagBang said:

Winning center clearance hasn't been our strong suit this year

 

Name a game we lost a selection????

600-700K vs 250-300

You mean the CHF v bris that took 8 marks 5 contested.

 

You mean like Gawn who went into the game with a broken toe type on injury???

And Kicked like a schoolboy Back Pocket player you mean?? Have a close look at Jeffo's goals this year and you'll see the difference in accuracy and a no nonsense no nervous set shot routine

Edited July 12 by picket fence

[sue 9,140]

1 hour ago, middleagedemon said:

On what basis is it iffy? 

Please tell. 

He is an ex AFL player and assistant coach and he is knowledgeable only because of his access to champion data? 

Please stop with the comedy. 

I don't follow what King says so I won't get into a discussion about how good his opinions are or whether he makes controversial comments based on very little just to get attention as a lot of commentators seem to do.  I hope he does little of that.

But presumably you do realise that it is possible to disagree with someone else without being snarky and dismissing their (somewhat misquoted) opinions as 'comedy'.  

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,865]

1 hour ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Kingy, is that you? 

Is that you Harry? You there Harry? Can you hear me Harry?

Yes Tommy, I'm here.

[chook fowler 19,533]

14 hours ago, binman said:

Yep.

It's not rocket science.

Rocket surgery 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,865]

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

And Kicked like a schoolboy Back Pocket player you mean??

Turn it up @picket fence. Down at TH King oval the pockets are deep and wide. My best year was when I only kicked it out of bounds on the full an average of once a quarter. That sounds bad, but we were so [censored] the ball tended to be in my zone a fair bit of the time. Some games it was only me that stood between a 10 goal loss and a 17 goal one.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Bowey into the ruck please

Edited July 12 by Moonshadow

[binman 43,752]

Just now, dice said:

Not sure what stats you are looking at. He is currently on track for more kicks, kicking efficiency, disposals inside 50, metres gained, ground ball gets, inside 50 marks, more shots on goal, goal assists, tackles, pressure acts, spoils, one percenters.

And again, 7 games to go. Sheesh

I'm looking at the stats you provided a link to.

And from those stats the best you can provide of evidence he has improved is kicks, kicking efficiency, disposals inside 50, metres gained, ground ball gets, inside 50 marks, more shots on goal, goal assists, tackles, pressure acts, spoils, one percenters?

The player ratings are by far the best measure of a players performance level.

His player rating has dropped significantly.

By the by, JVRs rating has also dropped this season, albeit only slightly - 7.3 on 2023 and 6.99 this season.

Anyway, whether Amiss had improved or not this season, he is a good young player who will become an excellent one. 

So not sure why you are feeling the need to argue.

Let's leave it here.

[DubDee 26,117]

When are the school holidays over??

[binman 43,752]

2 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Hi Prodee! 🖐

Zero chance they are Prodee.

That's an insult to my old sparring partner (who by the by is now posting as gator).

[Moonshadow 17,677]

3 hours ago, Chook said:

Petty has had a lot of trouble getting into the game as a forward. Having him be a defensive ruck following Draper around the ground and helping out defensively could work very well in theory.

1. Gets him into the game
2. Utilises his defensive nous and knowledge of the backline structure
3. Potentially providing a good marking target down the ground
4. Keeps the forward line open for players who know what they're doing (Roo, Melk, Fritta, Kosi) to go to work

Better than Fullerton, who wouldn't really be able to do any of that

Could be.

But I doubt playing ruck will do Petty's foot the world of good. 

A risk worth taking?

As an aside, I noticed Disco took some of the ruck duties in the third and last quarter vs WCE. Maybe that's the thinking while Max is out

[titan_uranus 25,043]

2 hours ago, middleagedemon said:

For the record, I think King is clearly knowledgeable. Much more so than any poster on here given his experience as an AFL player and assistant coach at the level. 

The only problem I have is that AFL media is so ove-saturated and he is on so many programs that he is clearly going to be wrong often given the amount of opinions he needs to give on a weekly basis. 

But his stuff with Daniel Hoyne is great. And first crack generally has some interesting insights. Regardless of whether or not one 'likes' the personality. 

Being an ex-player obviously gives you knowledge that the rest of us don't have.

It doesn't make you a good commentator.

King is not a particularly good commentator, because he says stupid things and changes his opinion all the time.

For example:

1. A few years back he did a big thing about how the top 8 had the same W-L record against each other. Which was how maths works, not some sort of insight into the evenness of the top 8.
2. This year he said in April that only three sides could win the flag - Geelong, GWS and Carlton. Those three sides went something like 1-8 over the next three weeks, two of them fell away so much that the debate turned to whether they'd make finals, and his analysis obviously ignored the current flag favourite (Sydney) and the next best side (Fremantle).
3. Pre-season he said we weren't going to make finals until we beat Carlton in a pre-season match and then he said we would make finals. Which is stupid because pre-season matches shouldn't make that level of difference to your opinion on any side.

I give him plenty of credit for at least looking for the stats and using them when he can. That beats out a fair portion of other commentators who don't even look at the numbers. But that doesn't mean his opinions are good. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

5 hours ago, DemonOX said:

Looks like someone else has the same concerns as a few posters on here including myself. 
 

From sen article  

David King is concerned about this call, wondering if the Demons have already lost this game at the selection table.

Not that the scribes are always right, in fact often the reverse, but Sanderson also assumed we would be selecting Fullo as Gawn's replacement (y'day before the teams came out).

He also said he felt we looked better up forward against the Eagles without Petty.

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

23 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Turn it up @picket fence. Down at TH King oval the pockets are deep and wide. My best year was when I only kicked it out of bounds on the full an average of once a quarter. That sounds bad, but we were so [censored] the ball tended to be in my zone a fair bit of the time. Some games it was only me that stood between a 10 goal loss and a 17 goal one.

Copped plenty of floggings on that ground myself a long time ago. Carn the yarras

[Clintosaurus 7,861]

We are winning anyway.

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,963]

I don’t care who plays ruck as long as it is not JVR. Starting to hit his straps as that big bodied forward that we have been crying out for. Too important to risk him playing there. Happy for him to contest a few in the forward 50 as that is more a wrestle, further that the only time I want him to leave the forward 50 is at 1/4 time, 1/2 time, 3/4 time and at the end of the game.