Deep Midfield Issues

[rpfc 27,678]

Our midfield is not 15 goals worse than Freos…

That was a whole team debacle. I don’t think we are that good this year. We lost depth, we are changing how we play in the defensive half when we have the ball, we still don’t have a reliable tall, our best midfielder was absent for preseason, some core players are out of form, and we spent the last two years trying to eke out another ‘prelim or better’ performance through dour dumping of the ball to protect the mids (2022) and focussing entirely on a front half game where we were dominated ‘territory’ except in crucial moments (2023).

We are rectifying some past mistakes with our onfield style of play and I hope we can rebalance our list and plug some easily foreseeable gaps.

For me, 2025 is a better show but we are running out of time.

[JJJ 603]

1 hour ago, kozzyisalegend said:

Fyfe is cooked

Brayshaw, serong are both gun players

We had the chance to draft young but elected to pick a WA boy who checked out half way through his stint at Melbourne

I don't understand why Goodwin let harmes Jordan and Grundy walk. Having those 3 in our squad now would be a big help

They were happy to see Harmes go. Grundy too. Different reasons at play. 
JJ left for $$$

[BW511 2,346]

11 minutes ago, JJJ said:

They were happy to see Harmes go. Grundy too. Different reasons at play. 
JJ left for $$$

The way JJ was used with us, it would be reasonable to think his career was hanging by a thread. I’d be concerned if he didn’t take the dollars.

 

[Docs Demons 1,682]

28 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Our midfield is not 15 goals worse than Freos…

That was a whole team debacle. I don’t think we are that good this year. We lost depth, we are changing how we play in the defensive half when we have the ball, we still don’t have a reliable tall, our best midfielder was absent for preseason, some core players are out of form, and we spent the last two years trying to eke out another ‘prelim or better’ performance through dour dumping of the ball to protect the mids (2022) and focussing entirely on a front half game where we were dominated ‘territory’ except in crucial moments (2023).

We are rectifying some past mistakes with our onfield style of play and I hope we can rebalance our list and plug some easily foreseeable gaps.

For me, 2025 is a better show but we are running out of time.

Sorry rpfc but I beg to differ a bit here. Maybe not 15 goals but maybe 10. Way back in 21 our midfield was young, quick and damaging plus the X factor in Jacko. Whilst they are still Ok other teams with young guns like Freo are just running past our guys and making our guys look slow and silly. Look at who went through their midfield today. Brayshaw, Serong, Jacko, Darcy, Clark (mainly Def but wandered through the mid), Fyfe (not so young), O'Meara, Sharp, Switkowski & Young. Have a VERY close look at these guys compared to what we dished up today. Chalk and Cheese.

[58er 5,704]

2 hours ago, kozzyisalegend said:

I'm just surprise the club opted for a project tall who will take a few years rather than a ready made mid who can play day dot and contribute to our midfield depth which is clearly lacking

Which mid would that be ? Pray tell. 

[kozzyisalegend 90]

4 minutes ago, 58er said:

Which mid would that be ? Pray tell. 

Flynn gentile

[KingDingAling 3,683]

58 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Our midfield is not 15 goals worse than Freos…

That was a whole team debacle. I don’t think we are that good this year. We lost depth, we are changing how we play in the defensive half when we have the ball, we still don’t have a reliable tall, our best midfielder was absent for preseason, some core players are out of form, and we spent the last two years trying to eke out another ‘prelim or better’ performance through dour dumping of the ball to protect the mids (2022) and focussing entirely on a front half game where we were dominated ‘territory’ except in crucial moments (2023).

We are rectifying some past mistakes with our onfield style of play and I hope we can rebalance our list and plug some easily foreseeable gaps.

For me, 2025 is a better show but we are running out of time.

I think a lot of what you said - is making excuses. But Freo did similar a couple years back. We play chaos football, and heavily rely on momentum. Longmuir simply deconstructs that, takes away our strength, and leaves us standing there with our pants down. Which is, our midfield do not defend, we don’t spread, man up, or play zone. The only bloke out there I saw today with half a clue, was Petracca, when he was imploring teammates to press up. 

[Sydee 3,755]

59 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Our midfield is not 15 goals worse than Freos…

That was a whole team debacle. I don’t think we are that good this year. We lost depth, we are changing how we play in the defensive half when we have the ball, we still don’t have a reliable tall, our best midfielder was absent for preseason, some core players are out of form, and we spent the last two years trying to eke out another ‘prelim or better’ performance through dour dumping of the ball to protect the mids (2022) and focussing entirely on a front half game where we were dominated ‘territory’ except in crucial moments (2023).

We are rectifying some past mistakes with our onfield style of play and I hope we can rebalance our list and plug some easily foreseeable gaps.

For me, 2025 is a better show but we are running out of time.

Our midfield depth is a major concern

If you watched Casey you’d agree we have nobody looking remotely likely to make it as an AFL midfielder coming through. 

Viney appears injured 

Trac is a gun but is needed in our F50 because we have a pretty weak forward line with the exception probably being Fritta and Pickett (sometimes) 

Sparrow looks like a player but produces little

Oliver - disposal by hand is usually good - disposal by foot is comical 

ANB - not an AFL midfielder imo he is a good pressure small forward 

Pickett - see ANB 

Max - a one man ruck band - unsustainable in all respects. JVR is not terrible as a backup but he’s supposed to be our big KPF. Our rucking depth is frankly non existent 

[KingDingAling 3,683]

4 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Our midfield depth is a major concern

If you watched Casey you’d agree we have nobody looking remotely likely to make it as an AFL midfielder coming through. 

Viney appears injured 

Trac is a gun but is needed in our F50 because we have a pretty weak forward line with the exception probably being Fritta and Pickett (sometimes) 

Sparrow looks like a player but produces little

Oliver - disposal by hand is usually good - disposal by foot is comical 

ANB - not an AFL midfielder imo he is a good pressure small forward 

Pickett - see ANB 

Max - a one man ruck band - unsustainable in all respects. JVR is not terrible as a backup but he’s supposed to be our big KPF. Our rucking depth is frankly non existent 

I don’t think we are lacking depth in our midfield. We have players who could run through there - who we don’t run through there. Rivers looks a likely candidate. McVee could be effective. ANB is a liability as a midfielder. We have too many of a similar type, and no one like Liam Baker - who is great by foot. We have bulls, but no polish. Unfortunately for us, even if they have polish, we have no forwards. Petty is a promising key back, Turner is an experiment gone wrong, who could be a promising key back, BBB is cooked, JVR is a target, and was missed today, but is unproven. 

[Sydee 3,755]

4 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

I don’t think we are lacking depth in our midfield. We have players who could run through there - who we don’t run through there. Rivers looks a likely candidate. McVee could be effective. ANB is a liability as a midfielder. We have too many of a similar type, and no one like Liam Baker - who is great by foot. We have bulls, but no polish. Unfortunately for us, even if they have polish, we have no forwards. Petty is a promising key back, Turner is an experiment gone wrong, who could be a promising key back, BBB is cooked, JVR is a target, and was missed today, but is unproven. 

Throwing HBFs into the midfield doesn’t mean they will be successful in that role and then who replaces them at HB ? Howes doesn’t deserve a recall he butchered the ball time and time again this weekend at Coburg and it seems the coaching group don’t think AMW has what it takes 

Our list is overrated imo - we have quite a few who don’t look that hungry and seem happy to take their paycheck and just show up when it suits 

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

1 hour ago, JJJ said:

They were happy to see Harmes go. Grundy too. Different reasons at play. 
JJ left for $$$

and replace them with….??

(Harmes was a different situation) but the other 2 I think the Club handled badly. 

[Garbo 1,373]

2 hours ago, kozzyisalegend said:

Fyfe is cooked

Brayshaw, serong are both gun players

We had the chance to draft young but elected to pick a WA boy who checked out half way through his stint at Melbourne

I don't understand why Goodwin let harmes Jordan and Grundy walk. Having those 3 in our squad now would be a big help

Grundy wanted out when Gawn wouldn’t let him have the number one ruck spot so that was just bad judgment by the club thinking they could play together.

Harmes could barely get a game last year and was clearly trending backwards and we drafted Windsor who had taken Jordan’s spot.

Brayshaw is the one that hurts and would have allowed more flexibility round the midfield mix without robbing the backline between him Rivers and Salem.

With Oliver having the preseason he did it’s no surprise he’s gone backwards and Viney been the wrong side of 30 it’s not surprising his output has dropped

If you look at most teams it’s rare they stay up more than 3 years in a row so think this step backwards was inevitable 

[monoccular 16,629]

8 hours ago, 1858 said:

It has been an issue for some time.

It is really coming home to roost now though.

12 months ago I said we were heading for a midfield cliff and got laughed at.

Now, James Jordon is no superstar, but he was at least a genuine developing midfielder. Im not suggesting he would have been a major difference for us but it's the mindset of our football brains trust that is the issue.

What in god's name was going through their mind in letting him go. Could they not see our ageing, one paced midfield needed all the help it could get going forward?

Pickett was severely under utilised in the guts last season to mix it up. Used only occasionally this year in light of Brayshaw.

Goodwin continually blind to the elephant in the room.

Wasnt JJ a free agent?

The timing of Angus’ retirement really hurt us - as I recall it was after trades and after draft day. So no possible replacement. 

[whatwhat say what 20,343]

29 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Wasnt JJ a free agent?

The timing of Angus’ retirement really hurt us - as I recall it was after trades and after draft day. So no possible replacement. 

from memory it was about a month opening round

shocking timing

[Jeremy 713]

Can anyone tell me why Laurie was given a 2 year deal? 

[JJJ 603]

58 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

and replace them with….??

(Harmes was a different situation) but the other 2 I think the Club handled badly. 

Who they replaced them with wasn’t my point. 
 

I’ve mentioned this before but we had a crack at Harry McKay last off season.

[Redleg 38,493]

4 hours ago, JJJ said:

LDU from North and Lukosius from GC 

Would love both and they would make a difference.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

19 minutes ago, JJJ said:

Who they replaced them with wasn’t my point. 
 

I’ve mentioned this before but we had a crack at Harry McKay last off season.

Yes i know. Other Clubs can make those big trades come off. We just cannot crack it 

[1858 269]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

Wasnt JJ a free agent?

The timing of Angus’ retirement really hurt us - as I recall it was after trades and after draft day. So no possible replacement. 

Yeah he walked.

From the outside looking in it doesn't seem like we did much to keep him though.

To think he is getting game time in Sydney's midfield, of all teams - kind of puts it into perspective.

Gus hurts but irrespective our midfield stocks are way too thin going forward IMO.

To my mind it is a biproduct of Gawn  Trac, Oliver being so dominant at the CB in years gone by and a football ideology which simply doesn't value quick transition between the arcs.

Listening to Nathan Brown (who I rate as a good football brain and impartial) on MMM he suggested McVee to the midfield. Not the worst suggestion I've heard.

[Gawndy the Great 8,013]

4 hours ago, rpfc said:

Our midfield is not 15 goals worse than Freos…

That was a whole team debacle. I don’t think we are that good this year. We lost depth, we are changing how we play in the defensive half when we have the ball, we still don’t have a reliable tall, our best midfielder was absent for preseason, some core players are out of form, and we spent the last two years trying to eke out another ‘prelim or better’ performance through dour dumping of the ball to protect the mids (2022) and focussing entirely on a front half game where we were dominated ‘territory’ except in crucial moments (2023).

We are rectifying some past mistakes with our onfield style of play and I hope we can rebalance our list and plug some easily foreseeable gaps.

For me, 2025 is a better show but we are running out of time.

I’d go a bit more and set up for a longer stint of success. Mini rebuild for me. 2-3 top 20 draft picks, one of LDU, McCluggage  (both would be awesome) and to reinforce our midfield. 

Id trade a few players too - Oliver and Petty would definitely get us at least 2 possibly 3 Round 1 picks. 

Sounds a bit over reactionary but this list cannot play the modern football style. It was built a decade ago by Roos and co in a style that has now changed and we didn’t.

 

 

[dees189227 11,264]

People go on about cripps and daicos, but you know what they give there team, consistency each week. 

Oliver isn't what he was & I think his lack of pressure season is catching up with him, sparrow isn't performing as well & trac when he's on he plays like the number 1 player in the comp but he doesn't do it consistently.  

Talent is being wasted here

[layzie 30,375]

2 hours ago, dees189227 said:

People go on about cripps and daicos, but you know what they give there team, consistency each week. 

Oliver isn't what he was & I think his lack of pressure season is catching up with him, sparrow isn't performing as well & trac when he's on he plays like the number 1 player in the comp but he doesn't do it consistently.  

Talent is being wasted here

That big bodied midfielder who can win you a clearance when the game is on the line is key and it really shows how much of a game changer it is when you see the drop off we're seeing with Oliver. Having what he gave us at the top of his game was a multiplier effect. 

 

[SPC 3,033]

Would love to see Taj given a run in the middle and Rivers as a defensive Mid. Viney is in such bad form he was almost standing on Maxys foot at every centre bounce and got torched on the spread. Oliver isn’t working hard enough so should go back to VFL in my eyes. Sparrow is a lost cause. Bowey over time could play midfield, but we need some big bodies in there at the moment. Cupboard is empty 

[Waltham33 422]

Cant keep reflecting on past decisions, no doubt some decisions look incorrect in hindsight.  The key now is recruiting real FA talent and trading in the right players, not top up.  I know every club is trying to do that however if we dont win well in October with trades and signings, 2025 will be another disappointing year

[kozzyisalegend 90]

Why not recruit someone like sharp instead of billings? He looked real good