Everyone Saying We Will Drop

[WalkingCivilWar 31,451]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Well, unless WCW is actually Brodie Grundy, or Brodie has talked to her directly, how could it be anything else? 

Dagnabbit. The jig’s up. 

[biggestred 4,296]

Please excuse the screenshot, was just the easiest way to get our fixture in one place.

 

Our first 6 games are very tough. Syd adelaide and port all away and brisbane. The hawks and dogs will be no pushovers either. I'll be very happy if we are 4-2.

3-3 is no disaster but going 2-4 which is very possible is.

[Macca 16,173]

@WalkingCivilWar

Let's not put aside the ego factor with a player who is on a $Million a year running around at Casey

And he didn't get dropped because of any other reason that he wasn't a forward and we needed to get Gawn back into the ruck

And that was our choice and our directive, not Brodie's (playing as a forward)

At the same time, Gawn was really struggling up forward

Something had to give

So he gets dumped and then Gawn remarks, "He took it like a man" ... that sounds like a statement that finalises things (in my view)

His manager then starts shopping Grundy around 'before' the end of the season seemingly with our blessing (the elephant in the room being the $3Million contract that we now need to offload)

So given all that, as well as both party's (Swans & Demons) not really wanting him to get injured, it's any wonder he wasn't under consideration

And if he was under consideration, he's an infinitely better option as a back up ruckman, than Schache

Again, does ego play a part for someone like Grundy if the only option is as the sub? 

It's not like we were going to use him up forward ... that ship had sailed

 

Edited February 10 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

25 minutes ago, Macca said:

I can see why they took a chance on T-Mac but we probably needed to play some sort of other big-bodied key forward as well

But if that other KPF was needed to play in front, put his body on the line and take the punishment, I'm not sure it would have been Schache

We could have thrown Tomlinson forward and brought Turner into the 22 (in the backline)

I'm a big believer in having 2 KPF's who can do the hard yards (especially in finals)

Even Collingwood were prepared to bring in a big body like Frampton even though he's a fairly ordinary footballer

But big bodied forwards require match-ups and attention.  If you don't play them close they can take grabs and become more than nuisance value

And if they can take the front position and bring the ball to ground, the smalls can capitalise

3rd & 4th forwards such as Fritsch & Smith can't be expected to play that sort of role.  They haven't got the body strength to carry out such a task

Unfit Players get shown up very quickly in September and TMac was way off Match Fit, he was a liability. For him to be selected 2 weeks running….

You cannot defend that. I have lost a lot of Faith in Goodwin because of it. 
 

[P-man 13,168]

Read an article on Brereton’s tips for the top four.

I’d have put my house on us not being in it, and yep, my house would’ve been safe.

His tip is GWS, Pies, Carlton and Brisbane.

Oh and the filth are about to embark on a dynasty, according to peroxide head.

Last year still sickens me. Of ALL the teams to basically hand a flag to.

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Unfit Players get shown up very quickly in September and TMac was way off Match Fit, he was a liability. For him to be selected 2 weeks running….

You cannot defend that. I have lost a lot of Faith in Goodwin because of it. 
 

Sure, but who are the other 2 experienced key forwards that we could have picked?

Brown & Petty were both out injured and JVR was suspended

Come up with 2 names, Wyl

You can't just talk about the problem without offering up alternates

I'll help you out though, we had no other experienced KPF's so we would have had to play 2 novice KF's

Give us 2 names

 

[BrisbaneDemon 1,494]

I think we’ll slide this year because we weren’t ruthless and moved on BBB and TMAC and addressed our forward line.  We gambled with Pettys foot and it could blow up in our face, a lot rides of JVR who is so young.

the only way we’ll be a top 4 team is if we shift our game plan forward of the ball, we’re a team that floods back and we never get the cherry picker goals over the top, if we can counter our defence and have the likes of Kozzy, Chandler, ANB, Fritsch out the back, we can kick a winning score.

We need to dominate the centre bounce, we have 1-2 good years of our captain left and we need to capitalise on his dominance.

2024 will be the year to slightly tweak for 2025 or we’ll need to blow the list up with Multiple changes for us to challenge again.

 

ill be their round 0 live, hoping i absolutely love what I see…..

[WalkingCivilWar 31,451]

31 minutes ago, Macca said:

So given all that, as well as both party's (Swans & Demons) not really wanting him to get injured, it's any wonder he wasn't under consideration

Awesome to see such open-mindedness. Thanks, Macca. 

[Macca 16,173]

8 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Awesome to see such open-mindedness. Thanks, Macca. 

Thanks Civ but mine is still just a guess based on the initial dropping of Grundy (you probably know more, haha) 

I can't recall the last player dispensed with who was actually doing well at his stock-in-trade (rucking)

The circumstances were absolutely unique

Normally I'd be proclaiming for Brodie to act like a professional but we as a club contributed to his undoing.  It's a 2-way street

And I don't believe the relationship ended in a bad way so there ends up being bad blood ... more so that we tried something and it didn't work

Brodie gets to be a starter at another club and still gets all the money.  We save all that money and continue our search for another forward-ruck

And that ruckman may well be Fullarton as all the lad might need is an opportunity

[Macca 16,173]

1 hour ago, P-man said:

Read an article on Brereton’s tips for the top four.

I’d have put my house on us not being in it, and yep, my house would’ve been safe.

His tip is GWS, Pies, Carlton and Brisbane.

Oh and the filth are about to embark on a dynasty, according to peroxide head.

Last year still sickens me. Of ALL the teams to basically hand a flag to.

Hey P-man, when are you going to put forward your predictions thread? 

Right now, it could make for some interesting reading!!

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Sure, but who are the other 2 experienced key forwards that we could have picked?

Brown & Petty were both out injured and JVR was suspended

Come up with 2 names, Wyl

You can't just talk about the problem without offering up alternates

I'll help you out though, we had no other experienced KPF's so we would have had to play 2 novice KF's

Give us 2 names

 

Schache should have played. 
at least he could move and compete. 
For him to be a fresh player in the 2nd half and not be rotated once was unforgivable in my opinion 

[Macca 16,173]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Schache should have played. 
at least he could move and compete. 
For him to be a fresh player in the 2nd half and not be rotated once was unforgivable in my opinion 

Ok but as far back as can be remembered, we go in with at least 2 KPF's (and sometimes with the 2nd ruck deep forward)

To only go with a player like Schache who is yet to prove himself as a KPF is going to leave us short (no pun intended)

Have you got another KPF to combine with Schache? 

Need 2, not 1

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

Ok but as far back as can be remembered, we go in with at least 2 KPF's (and sometimes with the 2nd ruck deep forward)

To only go with a player like Schache who is yet to prove himself as a KPF is going to leave us short (no pun intended)

Have you got another KPF to combine with Schache? 

Need 2, not 1

Schache should have played instead of TMac. 1 for 1

TMac was unable to combine with anyone 

[Macca 16,173]

54 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Schache should have played instead of TMac. 1 for 1

TMac was unable to combine with anyone 

In September, the pressure is immense and when the ball is rushed forward under pressure, you need big bodied forwards who can compete, take a grab and bring the ball to ground

Look at Ben Brown's role in the 2021 GF.  He continually worked his way to the front position even though he knew he wasn't going to take a mark every time.  He played the percentages and played a mighty role for his team

In the Carlton game I'd have gone with T-Mac (but deep forward)  and tried someone like Tomlinson at CHF (Turner could have taken Tomlinson's spot down back)

And no Schache at all as Tomlinson, Turner or T-Mac can cover for 15% of ruck time

However, It's important to note that I'm using hindsight as my friend and that's not keeping it real

Edited February 10 by Macca

[P-man 13,168]

2 hours ago, Macca said:

Hey P-man, when are you going to put forward your predictions thread? 

Right now, it could make for some interesting reading!!

Still getting the sour taste out of my mouth tbh 😁 I’ll pop it up shortly. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

3 hours ago, Macca said:

In September, the pressure is immense and when the ball is rushed forward under pressure, you need big bodied forwards who can compete, take a grab and bring the ball to ground

Look at Ben Brown's role in the 2021 GF.  He continually worked his way to the front position even though he knew he wasn't going to take a mark every time.  He played the percentages and played a mighty role for his team

In the Carlton game I'd have gone with T-Mac (but deep forward)  and tried someone like Tomlinson at CHF (Turner could have taken Tomlinson's spot down back)

And no Schache at all as Tomlinson, Turner or T-Mac can cover for 15% of ruck time

However, It's important to note that I'm using hindsight as my friend and that's not keeping it real

How many times do i have to say it. 
TMac was INJURED and no matter where you put him on the ground, We were a man down. 
Schache is a solid unit who could have competed, but was denied completely. 
TMac did nothing 2 weeks in a row (8 Quarters). I am not blaming him, but he couldn’t compete.
Goodwin being stubborn again cost us a huge amount 

Watch both Games again. Tom was nowhere near fit enough 

[rjay 23,907]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Schache should have played. 
at least he could move and compete. 
For him to be a fresh player in the 2nd half and not be rotated once was unforgivable in my opinion 

That's been the issue...

Yes, he would have been fit to compete

...but he hasn't been competitive

Would he have come good in a big final?

I guess those that should know thought not

[58er 5,608]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Schache should have played. 
at least he could move and compete. 
For him to be a fresh player in the 2nd half and not be rotated once was unforgivable in my opinion 

At last some sense SWYL .

Where are all the vultures criticising me now. All I wanted is a move during the game to help us. ie Tmac off in 3rd quarter and Schache on. 

This is  a variation of starting with Josh  instead and the whole Gawn issue ( non issue IMO) has just been ignored now. 

And to think we had closed this book about 2 days ago. 

The Grundy issue was unfortunately a fail and there were no winners in 2023 but now in 2024 let’s see how things play out. 

Also to worry about Dermott Brereton tips of Pies and GWS in top 4 he has always  favoured GWS as was an Assistant Coach there for 3/4 years in earlier days and also played a cameo year or two at Pies. He had never liked us sat all.
We simply have to stand up and again start with injuries up forward incredibly so P- Man who would have you got on the off season other than Fullarton to  bolster our attack and ruck to also help Gawny. 

Like you P-Man I will be there in Sydney on Zero Round still believing that Billingsand McAdams will help and JVR and Fritta who is flying can get us over the line.

I think our system will be better this year also. Let’s hope Petts BBB and Tmac and Fullarton can all get back and give us some depth for our attack in 2024. We deserve some luck after last years Finals  but it’s up to us to rectify. 
Go Dees 

 

[Macca 16,173]

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

How many times do I have to say it

If you were able to look at things in a calm, considered & rational manner, you'd be able to see the logic in us not using Schache (who was the reserve ruck for Gawn) 

T-Mac was also the 2nd ruck so he had to play.  Every other KPF was unavailable

And even a 3/4 fit T-Mac is a better bet than Schache.  And we couldn't take T-Mac off as Gawn might have had to come off soon after

Gawn was carrying a broken toe so Schache was the sub in reserve

Schache up until now hasn't proven himself to be a contested beast and that includes how he is as a ruckman (non physical)

And lose all that anger, calm down

10 hours ago, 58er said:

At last some sense SWYL 

I've heard everything now

You and Wyl make a good pair as both your football knowledge is highly questionable

You and he won't accept that we had a  forward line that was decimated 

But maybe the result will miraculously change with the avalanche of complaining

In my view, bringing Schache on wouldn't have made much difference at all

And if we did bring Schache on for T-Mac, we ran the risk of not being able to replace Gawn if he broke down

Has anyone here ever played high level sport with a lot of running, clashes & jumping involved with a broken toe? For a month long period?  

So, we did need Schache as the sub if Gawn had to pull the pin

We just used the sub in a different way to how a sub is often used

So in reply, can you at least try and be calm & rational?

A question for you

Do you believe Neale Daniher was making excuses when he referenced all our injuries early in 2007? (Neitz & Robbo amongst others were out injured at the time)

 

Edited February 11 by Macca

[WalkingCivilWar 31,451]

10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Goodwin being stubborn again cost us a huge amount 

Do you seriously believe that Goody made decisions which he knew might not be in our best interest? And this was due to stubbornness? Why would he do that? Serious question. 

[WalkingCivilWar 31,451]

Methinks some people are letting their ever-present disdain for our coach colour their opinions about that semi. 

[leave it to deever 15,339]

16 hours ago, Macca said:

Sure, but who are the other 2 experienced key forwards that we could have picked?

Brown & Petty were both out injured and JVR was suspended

Come up with 2 names, Wyl

You can't just talk about the problem without offering up alternates

I'll help you out though, we had no other experienced KPF's so we would have had to play 2 novice KF's

Give us 2 names

 

Tomlinson was a possibility but probably a bigger risk than Tmac.

The cupboard was bare, I'm afraid.

Let's hope it's not at this year's end as well.

Edited February 11 by leave it to deever

[Macca 16,173]

22 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Tomlinson was a possibility but probably a bigger risk than Tmac.

The cupboard was bare, I'm afraid.

Let's hope it's not at this year's end as well.

Yes, we need our starting forwards back as we could drop any given game until at least a few return

We can still win any of the games as well as we might be able to cover their loss (our lack of forwards) 

I'd take a 5 & 3 start to the season right now as our class elsewhere is going to help us win games.  But that could end up being 4 & 4 or even as good as 7 & 1 if augers well.  Right now a long shot (7 & 1) but you never know

And if our forward line is fit & firing from that point, we can go on a run

For the record, here are our first 8 games

(A) Sydney

(H) Bulldogs

(A) Hawthorn (MCG)

(A) Port Adelaide

(A) Crows

(H) Brisbane) 

(A) Richmond (MCG)

(H) Geelong

But you'd imagine our forward line will start getting stronger by the Port game at least ... maybe earlier but maybe later

We just don't know about what the state of forward line is going to look like (game to game)

Compare that to the backline & midfield where things are quite stable

Edited February 11 by Macca

[Roost it far 6,055]

37 minutes ago, Macca said:

Yes, we need our starting forwards back as we could drop any given game until at least a few return

We can still win any of the games as well as we might be able to cover their loss (our lack of forwards) 

I'd take a 5 & 3 start to the season right now as our class elsewhere is going to help us win games.  But that could end up being 4 & 4 or even as good as 7 & 1 if augers well.  Right now a long shot (7 & 1) but you never know

And if our forward line is fit & firing from that point, we can go on a run

For the record, here are our first 8 games

(A) Sydney

(H) Bulldogs

(A) Hawthorn (MCG)

(A) Port Adelaide

(A) Crows

(H) Brisbane) 

(A) Richmond (MCG)

(H) Geelong

But you'd imagine our forward line will start getting stronger by the Port game at least ... maybe earlier but maybe later

We just don't know about what the state of forward line is going to look like (game to game)

Compare that to the backline & midfield where things are quite stable

There's every chance that Petty won't play for 3 Months. At the very least he's probably 8 - 10 weeks away from being fit enough to impact, that's if his foot/toe are ready to start serious training.  I'm not sure why people are hanging our forward line hopes on a defender with a serious Lisfranc injury who's played a handful of games forward who's had no preseason. You're setting yourselves for disappointment. TMac and Brown are pipe dreams. Then there's Schache, Tomlinson, Turner and Fullarton. If Fritsch or JVR go down it's season over. We're going to have to either play Schache or hope McAdam can actually get on the park for the bulk of the season, something I also think is wishful thinking. Then there's Oliver's absence robbing our forward half of Petracca unless Sparrow can step it up a gear.......2024 is going to be the toughest challenge for awhile. It's what makes it so interesting for mine, we're right up against it. So do we have that real burning inner strength and desire to climb the mountain again? The drive is going to have to come from the likes of Rivers, Bowey, Sparrow, Chandler and also from guys pushing hard like Woewodin, Howes, Turner and hopefully Windsor. One thing's for sure it's going to be entertaining.

[Macca 16,173]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

There's every chance that Petty won't play for 3 Months. At the very least he's probably 8 - 10 weeks away from being fit enough to impact, that's if his foot/toe are ready to start serious training.  I'm not sure why people are hanging our forward line hopes on a defender with a serious Lisfranc injury who's played a handful of games forward who's had no preseason. You're setting yourselves for disappointment. TMac and Brown are pipe dreams. Then there's Schache, Tomlinson, Turner and Fullarton. If Fritsch or JVR go down it's season over. We're going to have to either play Schache or hope McAdam can actually get on the park for the bulk of the season, something I also think is wishful thinking. Then there's Oliver's absence robbing our forward half of Petracca unless Sparrow can step it up a gear.......2024 is going to be the toughest challenge for awhile. It's what makes it so interesting for mine, we're right up against it. So do we have that real burning inner strength and desire to climb the mountain again? The drive is going to have to come from the likes of Rivers, Bowey, Sparrow, Chandler and also from guys pushing hard like Woewodin, Howes, Turner and hopefully Windsor. One thing's for sure it's going to be entertaining.

It is going to be tough and Petty is one of the vital cogs (in terms of the team being able to win 3 finals)

I'm not sure we can win 3 finals with T-Mac or Brown as a KPF.  Not impossible if surrounded by class but nonetheless, a big ask given their injury history.  We can always use one as a decoy leading a defender away from the contest

But if we can get Petty back at some stage, we're a chance.  The X-factor players are Melksham and maybe McAdam

We just need to be slightly better than break even in the W/L stakes until we get somewhere close to full strength in the forward line 

And we need Clarrie to play more games than he misses and definitely be available at the business end

The forward line below allows us to be a proper contender

HF   Fritsch      JVR     ANB/Petracca

F      Kozzie     Petty      Melksham

Chandler as the 7th forward rotating

Petracca & ANB to share the role on one HFF

But that forward line can't happen until Melksham returns 

And Melksham had found his niche as a defensive forward type and by the looks of it, is very determined to get back

I'll back him in to get back to his best even though age is also a factor with Jake.  He was a revelation late last season before he did his knee ... and as the 5th or 6th forward, he can be very dangerous.  In his absence, it's probably McAdam

Edited February 11 by Macca