Are we struggling under the weight of scrutiny?

[Kozzie4PM 765]

These blokes sometimes aren't the cleanest going forward but I tell you what, they never bloody give up. They are the toughest, most talented, most big-hearted team I've ever seen wear red and blue. They are a credit to our club and we're lucky to have them.

[John Demonic 5,796]

2 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Jury still out until we beat a big 4 team in a final at the G.

2024 5th v 8th Melbourne v Essendon; the grandest final for the ages 🤦‍♂️

Edited September 13, 2023 by John Demonic

[Demons1858 1,760]

15 hours ago, praha said:

This is the first time in the modern era with social media and fast information that we are so prevalent in the news cycle. We are consistently playing in front of big crowds, during prime time, against big clubs in big games. We are in the news almost daily.

Our supporter base seems tired. Our players lack composure. Even after a flag we still lack respect from the football community. 

The way teams like Collingwood deal with adversity is to ride the wave and hold on. We seem to struggle. I feel like we are still dealing with the challenge of expectation, of wanting to be a big club, being let into the big boys club, but not actually being a big club. We almost seem out of place here.

It's just an observation -- maybe I'll be proven wrong on Friday but it's never been harder for me to imagine us winning a final or even a flag in front of 100k at the MCG. Let alone against a powerhouse club. There's a sense of being "spooked" and it was evident on Thursday night for mine. And now with what's happened with Maynard... I almost feel like Melbourne people are spitting the dummy more than I've ever seen a fanbase do before. 

We struggle to let go of both the good and the bad and it's to our detriment as a club and fanbase. I struggle with it myself. But I wonder when we'll genuinely put to bed the spooks and silent our critics once and for all. 2021 wasn't enough, we felt like it was, the pressure gauge was tightened and now here we are.

We just didn't kick straight and bombed away ... no more no less ... now we have quite a fresh injuries and reports ... 1 week is a longer time in football

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

16 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

I'm quite comfortable with how we carry ourselves on the big stage - and the respect we've earned from the football world in return.

Yes we went out in straight sets last year, but you don't finish top 4 three years in a row without 'stepping up' multiple times.  

I saw the OP made a similar post in another thread, implying that the flag was diminished because it was played at a neutral venue away from a hostile crowd; if you want to put an asterisk next to one of our greatest premiership wins, that's your call. 

Not me. We were on the precipice of one of football's biggest ever chokes in 2021. 

We were easily the best team of the H&A season, and the finals, and we'd let a dominant four-goal GF lead turn into a 19-point deficit midway through the third term. Our decades-long reputation as a soft club that couldn't deliver when the heat is on was about to be signed and sealed forever in front of the entire nation. 

But we didn't fold. We produced 45 minutes of the most devastating football in finals history - close to perfection. When it counted most. With a heavy 57-year old monkey on our back. 

To pretend there wasn't scrutiny or pressure is just plain wrong - there will never be more pressure than there was in 2021 when we were trying to break the curse. 

[beelzebub 23,376]

Are we struggling under the weight of scrutiny  ?

No...not imo

We're just struggling plain and simple.

[The Jackson FIX 3,114]

16 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

The reality is that winning flags is bloody hard. Winning multiple flags in a short period of time is even harder, it's why so few teams have done it. 

This is spot on. Only 1 team can win each year and we’ve been one of the two most recent teams to achieve that (and remain in the hunt this year).

I honestly think the ‘dynasty’ discussion from some at the end of ‘21 has shifted the expectations of many to an unfair territory. 
 

as you say, winning flags is bloody hard and a LOT has to go right (and not much has gone right for us last 18 months).

[58er 6,440]

15 hours ago, praha said:

My reference to 2021 keeps coming up -- I'm not diminishing it. We were far and away the best team. But let's also not pretend that playing in neutral stadiums in front of neutral crowds didn't make it slightly easier. 

None of those Finals games would have changed the results whether played where they were, in Adelaide or Perth, on our beloved G, or even in Mars.

The final margins of 5 goals (10 scoring shots) 14 goals (15+) and 12 goals ( 19) indicate our total dominance in a very much almost record domination on our opponents.

Not sure that Praha was at any of the venues and while I was only at the Grand Final live all Melb supporters had their hearts in their mouths all around the world ( My nephew in Geneva ) at the game at Optus Stadium or in lockdown in Melbourne when the Bont kicked THAT goal, to lead by 19 points halfway through the third quarter. 

The Doggies had kicked the only 2 goals in 15 mins. of total forward domination of territory and we couldn't penetrate their defence. But we had saved any potential goal onslaught in that time in fact SAVED THE GAME by keeping the margin to only 3 goals and a behind. Our championship defence the envy of all other teams then ( and now) set the base for the next 16 out of 17 goals with probably the most superb display of attacking footy in a GF or even H and A games that ANY club has played under the the ultimate pressure in a Finals game.

I don't think any Dees supporter that night ( and 99.99% since ) thought that it was easier to do at Optus rather than at the G, let alone cared about the details of venue etc. And I don't think that is at all fair in any way at all on our magnificent heroes who responded on a different premiership stage under the curse of the 57years  previous.

Since then we have been tested high and low on the AFL stage as a team that has topped the mountain ( not that it was thrown like a bridal posy ) and we happened to catch it. 

2022 we all now know that we had half the team playing with injuries of different nature by Finals time and could not play with any freedom for all the game. Indeed I have heard 11 players had scans ( not just Trac ) after the Qualifying Final and before the Lions overran us. In the last quarter in the Semi. As we now "know" if Harry had been sent forward at 3/4 time instead of a cursory 7/8 minutes that result most likely would have changed. No we wouldn't have beaten the Cats for the Flag but our Coach could have emulated " we were banged up" just like Scotty pulled the "we were ill" card 12 months previous.

To 2023 and our start promised a new dawn for our attack but gradually each pillar of that portion of our team has suffered and half our potential match winners are now merely spectators. Yes our forward results on the scoreboard have raised their ugly head plus our tactics and lack of cohesion and we now find ourselves with our biggest challenge for the last 3 years to proceed meaningfully to a second prelim and grand final.

This result is partly injury based plus a mysterious game plan forward of centre that has self inflicted ourselves ( last year it was kicking to the forward pocket ) and this is let's just bomb to full forward and get at least 10/12 players contest the ball for a mark/scrum/half a snapshot if we are lucky but it will generally mean there won't be a swift or clear breakaway and our forwards can reset within the square/arc to wear our opponents down. Who cares if we don't score but our opponents won't either just that we are 3 goals plus behind and majorly need to out score our opponents to WIN the game.

In last Melb vs C'wood podcast Binman ( I think him if not George ) seemed to agree as he didn't challenge these tactics. In fact it was stated Goodie had won us a flag with these tactics and why should we query them now???

It is his assessment of our list snd best way to "attack" for another flag was the defence. !!  Trouble is there is no attack per say and why we do often finish up with dodgy stats in narrow losses that mirror over the one thing sport is all about PLAYING TO WIN and using your knowledge to out wit and outplay ( not bore everyone) in the attempt. How else is that reflected that only 20,000 last week and about 15,000 Dees fans ( other than 15,000 MCC rusted on) this week are buying tickets to watch our greatest three generational players try to  conjure up and stem the ignominy of a second straight sets loss not done this century in the AFL Finals.

I not sure where that leads us in the respect of the AFL chatter but it sure resonates in our very fickle and not so smart at times fan base. We have had many more than half D/Lers say our season is over etc.

Despite what I have posted so far we are not dead in the water we have produced many times a great team effort to win under duress snd only once in3 years have never been in the game for the whole match realistically ( Bombers in Gather Round 5 this season ) and was that I believe in 73 games since 2021.

I think that deserves plenty of respect from all of us and the AFL but we are not attacking meaningfully IMO it's like a cricket team waiting for a wicket but not really trying to just waiting for a mistake. Don't get confused with the defence stopping goals Thats what defences do( refer '21 GF) but once out of defence attack is the best means of defence in any game.

We can because of our ability stop the Blues to say 10/11 goals but will we chance a win with sayTurner up forward or Trac in attack all day if we are being overtaken on ball?

Lets get there and be louder and longer in our efforts because those 60,000 plus Blues will be just as loud snd cocky ( not quite as feral) as the Pies were. We owe it to Angus and our injured forwards and for further self respect to our reputation in this elite and toughest of competitions.

Go you mighty Dees

PS Don't  hear Tigers fans diminishing their 2020 Flag at the Gabba snd it took far less time to accomplish with 17 minute quarters. So let's not even go there and there are no asterisks on Flags, never has and never will and 2023 is still waiting. Pies have only won the first set of three games, win Friday snd we are on equal footing ie 2 wins away from immortality our 14th Flag and fourth best in the AFL on our own.

[drysdale demon 4,836]

8 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Jury still out until we beat a big 4 team in a final at the G.

Intimidation has got nothing to do with it.

[layzie 33,805]

I see it as yes, there is a weight of expectation and we've had some serious curve balls thrown our way this year. It's something that might have crushed other sides but I'm very impressed with how we've managed to hold up.

The events of this week could go either way for me, we could bind together or let the air go right out of the balloon. Either way would be understandable but I hope like hell our boys can do the former and stay focussed on the job as much as possible. 

[Roost it far 8,276]

8 hours ago, John Demonic said:

2024 5th v 8th Melbourne v Essendon; the grandest final for the ages 🤦‍♂️

I’m very bullish about 24-26, Petty and JVR, some clever recruiting and drafting and we should remain very very strong through those years. There’s a flag or 2 more on the way. 

[praha 11,240]

8 hours ago, John Demonic said:

2024 5th v 8th Melbourne v Essendon; the grandest final for the ages 🤦‍♂️

you just know that essendon will end their finals streak against us.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Worried we could become stuck in a kind of limbo where we are good enough to be a top four team but unable to progress any further. If we go out in straight set two years in a row will be hard to take and do little for future confidence.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

I know the club,  coach  and players have media comittments but sometimes I wish we would just go quiet before big games.

[Deebauched 1,220]

18 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I know the club,  coach  and players have media comittments but sometimes I wish we would just go quiet before big games.

Media will also try and disrupt our preparation during the lead up to a big game. Been doing it for years.

We're probably not winning it this year because our fwd line is mangled with injuries and outs. Its been an unsettled mess all year. Losing Petty and then Melksham recently was the last straw.

I dont buy the bias crowd arguement. Pies have won 2 flags in 64 years !   Weve almost done as well as that mob.

What about GWS.  Perfect game this Saturday to test the massive bias crowd advantage.

Port   49000

GWS   1000 - 2000 maybe

GWS didnt have much trouble beating Aints infront of 68000 mostly tragic Aints folks.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Deebauched

[leave it to deever 17,511]

3 minutes ago, Deebauched said:

bias crowd arguement. Pies have won 2 flags in 64 years !   Weve almost done as well as that mob.

What about GWS.  Perfect game this Saturday to test the massive bias crowd advantage

I have always thought the crowds influence umpires but I thought we had a good run v the pies.

But you make a good point.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

22 hours ago, praha said:

My reference to 2021 keeps coming up -- I'm not diminishing it. We were far and away the best team. But let's also not pretend that playing in neutral stadiums in front of neutral crowds didn't make it slightly easier. 

Yes you are.

Every time you or @Bring-Back-Powell or anyone else post about "it was at the Adelaide Oval/Optus Stadium" or "neutral crowds" or "rent-a-crowds" or "not at the MCG", you are diminishing our efforts in 2021. 

I don't get why any MFC supporter would want to do that. 

You talk in your OP about how Collingwood approach things. Do you think Collingwood supporters would take the same view if they were the 2021 premiers? No [censored] way. They'd own it proudly and loudly. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by titan_uranus

[Jaded No More 68,916]

4 hours ago, John Crow Batty said:

Worried we could become stuck in a kind of limbo where we are good enough to be a top four team but unable to progress any further. If we go out in straight set two years in a row will be hard to take and do little for future confidence.

You have to ask yourself how much better off would we be if we hadn't lost Petty and Melksham to season ending injuries.

A single injury to a key player could be the difference between winning and losing a flag when the competition is so tight, especially when that injury occurs later in the year, and is added onto a host of injuries within the same part of the ground.

We did so well to cover Clarry, because the rest of our mids were fit and healthy and we were able to push Gus into the midfield because we had a plethora of half backs in good form and fit. 

Losing Petty would have been fine if BB and Tmac were not both battling. Losing Melksham on top of that in round 24 just threw everything off even more, and gave us no time to adjust.

Now JVR is out, and we need to replace his role and the cupboard is completely bare to the point where we might need to play Schache, who has proven over many years that he is not a great option. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jaded No More

[Guest]

We win Friday we will beat the Bears and be in a GF.

[Deemania since 56 6,639]

22 hours ago, Webber said:

like Collingwood deal with adversity is to ride the wave and hold on

...trusting the complicit loyalty on umpires of the day... the AFL itself for bums on seats profits, and the sheltered hub of the match review processes.

[John Demonic 5,796]

6 hours ago, Roost it far said:

I’m very bullish about 24-26, Petty and JVR, some clever recruiting and drafting and we should remain very very strong through those years. There’s a flag or 2 more on the way. 

Me too. Just mocking the "need to beat a BIG4 club in a final" talk. We're only getting that opportunity now for the 2nd time, after many a year. It's quite obvious we need to win this week to dispense with the Spooked talk. No matter who is our opponent.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by John Demonic

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,828]

4 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Me too. Just mocking the "need to beat a BIG4 club in a final" talk. We're only getting that opportunity now for the 2nd time, after many a year. It's quite obvious we need to win this week to dispense with the Spooked talk. No matter who is our opponent.

 

If I recall correctly, we were the team to knock off Collingwood mid season when they were riding high, everyone was suggesting they were undefeatable and we were struggling for consistent form.

I think we're just as capable of beating Carlton now with our backs somewhat to the wall now as we were Collingwood mid season.

This team has grit, determination and ability.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,828]

20 hours ago, Kozzie4PM said:

These blokes sometimes aren't the cleanest going forward but I tell you what, they never bloody give up. They are the toughest, most talented, most big-hearted team I've ever seen wear red and blue. They are a credit to our club and we're lucky to have them.

Add to that a defense that keeps us in games and gives us the opportunity to win games alot wouldn't still be in.