We're probably paying the guy in buttons so if he's happy to stay and challenge for a senior spot fair play to him. After a year at the club they both know what they're getting. 

6 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

This.

Probably more likely than pick 109 in the draft.

And ready to go. Jefferson might be another year away yet

I like this, he will give cover in multiple positions without costing much and while he hasn’t been great this year, we have seen him do decent things and play decent games. I don’t expect him to come in and play much even next year but if we have multiple injuries again he can slot in and do a job.

5 hours ago, Demonland said:

I do not think this is something you can teach someone.

Yeah, you just don't feed them in a while.

6 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

I am under the impression that this contract extension for Josh Schache has happened because either Ben Brown and/or Jake Melksham maybe announcing their retirements.

All I can say to Josh Schache is to please learn to play with some AGGRESSION! Do anything! Take up boxing or go to the BJJ/MMA classes that Jack Viney and Christian Petracca are attending that Jack's brother is running. I said this many months ago and sadly Josh still seems lackadaisical. Anyway, I hope he works on this and improves his aggression and attack on the ball over the pre-season.

My opinion from watching and playing sport is that you either have that in you, or you don’t. You’ll never manufacture competitive instinct and a willingness for the contest if it’s not in you. 

This suggests that there will be no other key position players available to trade for this off season. 

3 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

A piece for the folk who bang on about Josh's 'lack of hunger'.

Cause it really [censored] me to tears.

It's lazy, myopic, set in the past and not even slightly nuanced at looking at at the attributes that need to come together to make up the myriad of humans that become AFL players.

A common narrative among spectators, both seasoned and amateur, is that a player who doesn't showcase an obvious burning desire is "not hungry" enough for the game. These players, by this definition, lack the aggression or motivation that the sport supposedly demands.  Let's dissect this notion and understand the myriad factors that shape an AFL player's disposition on the field.

1. Personality and Inclination
It's essential to recognize that every individual is unique. Just as two people might approach a problem differently in an office, two players might approach a ball or an opponent differently on the field. Some are naturally aggressive; some are calculative, and others might be more observant. Labeling someone as "not hungry" based on a single trait discounts their unique contributions and strategies, that you the pundit can't actually see.

2. The Pressures of Professionalism
When you're 16 and surrounded by peers who dream of sporting glory, the concept of professional AFL seems alluring. The fame, the fans, the fortune—it's easy to be blinded by the shimmer. However, the reality of professional sports is grueling. The intense scrutiny, the physical and emotional toll, the constant pressure—it's not always what they signed up for. Not everyone thrives in such an environment, no matter how "gifted" they are.

3. The Complexity of Motivation
Just because a player isn't the loudest on the field or isn't always gunning for a fight doesn't mean they aren't motivated. Some might be driven by the love of the game, others by the camaraderie with teammates, and some might find purpose in proving naysayers wrong. The spectrum of motivation is broad and intricate, and it diminishes as time progresses...

4. Changing Dynamics of the Game
AFL, like any other sport, evolves. Today's game emphasizes strategy, skill, and teamwork more than ever. Not every position or strategy requires raw aggression. The game needs thinkers, planners, and those who can keep a cool head under pressure just as much as it needs the fiercely combative.

I for one am glad Tom Boyd chose to be proactive, exit the game and look after his mental well being.

Hey @Engorged Onion. Thank you for your well articulated and thoughtful contribution. I agree with the notions expressed in your first four paragraphs.

What I would say is this.

The Love Shack and Jack Watts share the same characteristics, one of which is the inability to exert themselves physically on a game. This is not a lack of desire, but something that just isn't in their genetic make-up. I don't have it myself and this made me a very average footballer. 45 years after giving up on football, I know I definitely have 'hunger', but it expresses itself in a different way to that that is expected of footballers. Aussie Rules is a brutal game, and for some of us, so it is in life. Yet, somehow, hunger - expressed as resilience, tenacity and persistence, get us through the difficult encounters in the same way that toughness and brute strength are relied on by footballers.

Once again, thanks for your fine contribution. QD.

Edited August 31, 20231 yr by Queanbeyan Demon
Typo

13 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Hey @Engorged Onion. Thank you for your well articulated and thoughtful contribution. I agree with the notions expressed in your first four paragraphs.

What I would say is this.

The Love Shack and Jack Watts share the same characteristics, one of which is the inability to exert themselves physically on a game. This is not a lack of desire, but something that just isn't in their genetic make-up. I don't have it myself and this made me a very average footballer. 45 years after giving up on football, I know I definitely have 'hunger', but it expresses itself in a different way to that that is expected of footballers. Aussie Rules is a brutal game, and for some of us, so it is in life. Yet, somehow, hunger - expressed as resilience, tenacity and persistence, get us through the difficult encounters in the same way that toughness and brute strength are relied on by footballers.

Once again, thanks for your fine contribution. QD.

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to engage with the post. The comparisons and the insights are good.

I wholeheartedly concur with your sentiment regarding the Love Shack and Jack Watts. It's crucial to understand that passion, desire, and "hunger" don't always manifest in the traditional sense. Just as in life, not everyone expresses their dedication or resolve in overt, external ways.

Your analogy with your personal journey is particularly enlightening. 'Hunger', as you aptly noted, isn't always about physical aggression on a sports field. Resilience, tenacity, and persistence are forms of hunger that many individuals rely on daily, be it in professional settings, personal challenges, or the sporting arena. This kind of hunger often goes unnoticed because it isn't as flamboyant or evident as a footballer's tackle or sprint, but it's equally valuable, if not more so.

AFL, in many ways, mirrors life itself - filled with highs and lows, demanding various skills, and testing individuals in numerous ways. Just as a player's worth shouldn't be judged only by their perceived physical aggression on the field, individuals in the broader spectrum of life shouldn't be solely assessed based on overt expressions of resilience or passion. Sometimes, the silent warriors, those who grind it out quietly day in and day out, have the most substantial "hunger" of them all.

Thanks for broadening the discussion and emphasizing the multifaceted nature of motivation and resilience. Your perspective underscores that while footy is a microcosm of life, there are countless ways to tackle the challenges that come our way.

Great stuff 🙌

8 hours ago, Bystander said:

I don't want to be disrespectful but I have seen every Jefferson game at Casey and the only thing I have seen him split is a vanilla slice with his aunty. Certainly not a pack.

But, I think he will get there. Schache has had lots of chances, has ability and has to start imposing himself. I'm glad it is one year. 

Splitting packs ....not really

Taking plenty of contested marks in traffic or over the top of an opponent...absolutely

@Engorged Onion love your post and agree with the sentiments. My knock on Schache is not that he does not have Aggression/Hunger etc, but two fold from watching his games for us, I have seen hesitation to commit to an action and to my eye at least, does not maintain the fwd 50 defensive structures, I think he is easy to play off/through. This used to be my complaint about Melksham and why I was floored when he came back into the team and absolutely played his role, it was a stunning transformation. I know Schache has the technical skills, but the hesitation in a high octane game plan is a killer. By way of example, I don’t think McVee comes across as aggressive but his sense of timing and ability to act instantly either creates time for us or shuts down an opponents options. 

But lastly, if he has been given another year, I have every reason to trust the match committee. I just worry that we have to have a minimum turnover and I’m not sure who goes, and i think all of the kids have looked promising. 

6 hours ago, DEE fence said:

@Engorged Onion love your post and agree with the sentiments. My knock on Schache is not that he does not have Aggression/Hunger etc, but two fold from watching his games for us, I have seen hesitation to commit to an action and to my eye at least, does not maintain the fwd 50 defensive structures, I think he is easy to play off/through. This used to be my complaint about Melksham and why I was floored when he came back into the team and absolutely played his role, it was a stunning transformation. I know Schache has the technical skills, but the hesitation in a high octane game plan is a killer. By way of example, I don’t think McVee comes across as aggressive but his sense of timing and ability to act instantly either creates time for us or shuts down an opponents options. 

But lastly, if he has been given another year, I have every reason to trust the match committee. I just worry that we have to have a minimum turnover and I’m not sure who goes, and i think all of the kids have looked promising. 

Cheers mate!

First off, hats off to your observation on Schache!  You've hit the nail on the head with the point about hesitation. I mean, I saw that transformation with Melksham too - one minute I'm wondering what he's doing out there, the next he's shining and slotting perfectly into the game plan.

And your point about McVee? Spot on. The guy might not be smashing through opponents like a wrecking ball, but he's always in the right place, at the right time, doing the right thing. It's not always about being the loudest or toughest; sometimes it's just about being quick on your feet and thinking two steps ahead.

End of the day, if the match committee is keeping Schache on for another year, they've probably seen something we haven’t. But like you, I'm scratching my head wondering who'll make way for the next gen. Those young guns have some serious potential, and I can't wait to see them in action more.

If I get a bit nerdy -

I really get where you're coming from on the hesitation bit, and you've got me thinking. You know, when I'm running cognitive tests for clients, one of the key things I'm assessing is processing speed. It's fascinating how our brain's ability to quickly absorb, understand, and react to information can vary so much person to person, who are highly skilled professionals, leaders of industry etc etc... Now, when you port that idea onto the footy field, it provides some insights.

Imagine being in Schache's boots for a moment. Every time you get the ball or see it coming your way, there's this rapid scan happening in your brain: "Where are my teammates? What are my options? Do I pass, run, or go for goal?" And if someone's processing speed isn’t quite as lightning-fast as another player's (natural human variation ,not a flaw), that split-second delay can come off as hesitation. On the field, every millisecond counts, right? So, if Schache or anyone else is taking a moment longer to assess the play, they might seem a tad off pace or like they're second-guessing.

Also, think about attacking the ball. If a player is processing multiple options rapidly, they might sometimes be caught in that moment of indecision, which to us, looks like hesitance or lack of commitment, and the moment to act on that FIRST option, has genuinely passed.

Contrast that with Clarry, he is not amazing, but in this context he has a very high processing speed.. and the genetics, skills, commitment etc to back it up.

Cheers for the chat.

Edited August 31, 20231 yr by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Cheers mate!

First off, hats off to your observation on Schache!  You've hit the nail on the head with the point about hesitation. I mean, I saw that transformation with Melksham too - one minute I'm wondering what he's doing out there, the next he's shining and slotting perfectly into the game plan.

And your point about McVee? Spot on. The guy might not be smashing through opponents like a wrecking ball, but he's always in the right place, at the right time, doing the right thing. It's not always about being the loudest or toughest; sometimes it's just about being quick on your feet and thinking two steps ahead.

End of the day, if the match committee is keeping Schache on for another year, they've probably seen something we haven’t. But like you, I'm scratching my head wondering who'll make way for the next gen. Those young guns have some serious potential, and I can't wait to see them in action more.

If I get a bit nerdy -

I really get where you're coming from on the hesitation bit, and you've got me thinking. You know, when I'm running cognitive tests for clients, one of the key things I'm assessing is processing speed. It's fascinating how our brain's ability to quickly absorb, understand, and react to information can vary so much person to person, who are highly skilled professionals, leaders of industry etc etc... Now, when you port that idea onto the footy field, it provides some insights.

Imagine being in Schache's boots for a moment. Every time you get the ball or see it coming your way, there's this rapid scan happening in your brain: "Where are my teammates? What are my options? Do I pass, run, or go for goal?" And if someone's processing speed isn’t quite as lightning-fast as another player's (natural human variation ,not a flaw), that split-second delay can come off as hesitation. On the field, every millisecond counts, right? So, if Schache or anyone else is taking a moment longer to assess the play, they might seem a tad off pace or like they're second-guessing.

Also, think about attacking the ball. If a player is processing multiple options rapidly, they might sometimes be caught in that moment of indecision, which to us, looks like hesitance or lack of commitment, and the moment to act on that FIRST option, has genuinely passed.

Contrast that with Clarry, he is not amazing, but in this context he has a very high processing speed.. and the genetics, skills, commitment etc to back it up.

Cheers for the chat.

Great post. FWIW, another player who takes too long to process options is JJ. 

12 hours ago, Pipefitter said:

This suggests that there will be no other key position players available to trade for this off season. 

Not so sure. Chol only announced yesterday. Player managers spread the news out over the whole final series and beyond.

We have question marks over BBB, TMac and Tomlinson. We might be a player. 

@Engorged Onion, @Queanbeyan Demon, @DEE fence;

great stuff, folks (I felt like I was looking in a mirror, QD!)

 

15 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

We're probably paying the guy in buttons so if he's happy to stay and challenge for a senior spot fair play to him. After a year at the club they both know what they're getting. 

But can he play?...

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/patrick-jolly-the-pearly-king-of-crystal-palace-celebrates-news-photo/153113428

Can we fix his name on the title pls

Edited August 31, 20231 yr by Dee Zephyr

Good move

I look forward to watching him run into space and create opportunities for the other forwards

List management is elite atm

13 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Hey @Engorged Onion. Thank you for your well articulated and thoughtful contribution. I agree with the notions expressed in your first four paragraphs.

What I would say is this.

The Love Shack and Jack Watts share the same characteristics, one of which is the inability to 

Think its a bit unfair on Jack W.

Watching old Dees highlights of the last 10 years recently I was pleasantly surprised at how many times JW was instrumental at winning in close finishes.

His kicking was a weapon. Also apart from a form dip he established himself as a regular A grader whereas JS after several years & 3 clubs is still a B grader.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Think its a bit unfair on Jack W.

Watching old Dees highlights of the last 10 years recently I was pleasantly surprised at how many times JW was instrumental at winning in close finishes.

His kicking was a weapon. Also apart from a form dip he established himself as a regular A grader whereas JS after several years & 3 clubs is still a B grader.

 

 

Yes it's absolutely unfair and plain silly comparing Watts to Schache.

Watts was a clutch match winner in big games. Yes he had his weaknesses, but when it came to someone needing to stand up in big games, ball in hands Watts was the best of the lot.

People have short memories. 

15 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yes it's absolutely unfair and plain silly comparing Watts to Schache.

Watts was a clutch match winner in big games. Yes he had his weaknesses, but when it came to someone needing to stand up in big games, ball in hands Watts was the best of the lot.

People have short memories. 

I have said this before, but JW in our side now and our flag chances would increase significantly.

He would be ahead of JVR and Tom by a country mile.

Jack Watts was a star

Half on here have no idea about footy, so never saw his impact

Re Jack Watts, I must agree with latter posters. I think earlier posters were about 'appetite for the contest' as opposed to football skills, brain and game contribution?

Edited September 1, 20231 yr by Timothy Reddan-A'Blew

I really hope Schache finds some mongrel mojo and gets into form, would love to see him do well and if he did he'd be an asset to the club up forward.  C'mon Schack...ATTACK!!!

If Watts played in our current side, instead of the hell dumpster that our club was back then, he would be a best 22 player. 

Likewise if we had the conditioning and fitness staff and the common sense we do now, Grimes and Trengove's careers would have been a lot better, especially Trengove who we destroyed by mismanaging his body and making him captain when he was like 5 years old. Embarrasing stuff.