POSTGAME: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

2 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

You're kidding aren't you? You didn't manage to notice he was the better ruckman tonight?

He certainly isn't a forward, but neither is Gawn

I’m so conflicted about Grundy.

I agree he’s a very good ruck and helped a lot on the last when we couldn’t buy a centre clearance.

But he isn’t a forWard and he seemingly makes Gawn worse.

But he also makes JVR better (gets worn out in the ruck) and we still need another tall forward.

The only obvious out is Jordon, so it’s a tough one.

[Macca 17,113]

We're capable of playing at 8 or 9 out of 10 standard ... tonight we were barely 6.5 out of 10 and that's why we lost (the main reason)

We couldn't deal with Carlton's all over pressure and we were rushed with our disposals all night

Effectively, the Blues did what we normally do (all over the field pressure)

Up forward, it just didn't work for us so we've got a bit to sort out in that area

But kudos to the Blues.  They outplayed us but we very nearly won

So there's hope and on the flipside we might slip to the valued 4th position where we'd effectively get a home final for the QF

So it's not all bad and it's not as if we got thrashed.  We didn't play very well but we very nearly won the game

Looked at another way ... if we play like we did tonight in a final, can we expect to win?  I doubt it

Edited August 12, 2023 by Macca

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Just now, dazzledavey36 said:

You're actually right. 

Was watching vision just then. I only saw the initial vision which showed the vision coming behind Marchbank. That's where it looked like his finger deviate.

I just saw your screenshot angle in full version and he didn't even tough it and there's clearly a gap. Massive [censored] up there, but again, doesn't change my opinion that it was that one instance why we lost the game.

Rightio, I'll put my hand up and own this one. Apologies to everyone else.

The worst part is the Arch rushed it, I’ve seen them take longer over out on the full decisions.

Carlton we’re better most of the night, just annoying as it could cost us a home final.

[Sir Why You Little 37,296]

Don’t blame Grundy. He was great in the last Quarter 

We were robbed of 4 points 

[dazzledavey36 55,853]

Just now, Clint Bizkit said:

The worst part is the Arch rushed it, I’ve seen them take longer over out on the full decisions.

Carlton we’re better most of the night, just annoying as it could cost us a home final.

Wasn't there once upon a time you could actually zoom right in?

Does that not exist anymore???

[layzie 34,326]

I saw all angles, still think inconclusive. 

Maybe I need to watch it on a 4K TV, point is you couldn't overturn based on what I've seen so far.

No sorry, point is we lost.

Edited August 12, 2023 by layzie

[BoBo 2,953]

Ball wasn't touched by the Carlton defenders hands, that's for sure.

Kicking was woeful at times tonight and Carlton looked like they were playing in difference conditions to us, by how good their field kicking was.

Easy to say our kicking was affected by the conditions but it didn't look like Carlton was that affected by the conditions, so why were we?

Smith over Hibbo in the backline seemed a mistake. Hibbo should've played the whole game and Smith in the forward line. 

JJ needs a rest.

Salem can't make a 45 meter kick? Seriously?

[ANG13 2,086]

That hurts. Carlton supporters have every right to be up and about eight in a row with three of those against top four sides. It makes me feel sick though. 
 

I am staggered how often in slippery or wet conditions we just over handball under pressure and not use a chaos ball to gain territory particularly into our forward line. 
 

Salems form is a worry, how did he not make the distance from inside fifty with no physical pressure on him. 
 

Seriously confused how playing Grundy of the back of an average game at Casey in wet and slippery conditions was a good idea. 

I personally didn’t think that ball was touched and if it was called a goal I doubt it would have been overturned. But there were other issues that cost us just as much. 
 

[Adam The God 30,602]

We looked at sea behind the ball with Smith there. As soon as he moved forward, both ends of the ground looked better.

I've changed my view based on Petty's injury and tonight's performance.

I think we'll go two talls at the back (May and Lever) with Hibbo from now on.

Smith into the sub role and Tmac or Brown in to support JVR, JVR into second ruck spot.

If Tmac or BB aren't fit, Smith stays and bring in Harmes. He could not be any worse than JJ was.

I can't recall a game in the last three years where we've been so comprehensively beaten as we were tonight.

It's hard not to knee-jerk to a result like tonight. Carlton were awesome, but we were on the backfoot the entire night and were never able to properly sustain a counter punch or even offer one at all.

I don't wanna say we're done, but I expected to win, we should have won, they had a lot out and they controlled the game, stifled us with pressure and held us off all night.

The funny thing is season's can hinge on very small moments and you need the luck going your way. If that Trac goal at the end was an umpire's call of goal (if you watch the hands on the head's of Carlton defenders directly after the ball crosses the line - it didn't look touched to me), all of a sudden the narrative completely shifts. Melbourne have won 6 in a row, top 2 is pretty much secured, Carlton's 8 game streak is broken and everyone goes here come Melbourne. 

The response the next fortnight will be instructive, and I hope we use tonight (a finals like game) to make bold selection moves to give ourselves the best chance of winning our 14th flag.

[Brownie 6,066]

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The ball did not deviate. Nobody touched it. 
The AFL need to get 4K Cameras. It is amateur hour right now 

 

I hope the entire Club is very angry 

Yeah, I'm angry.

Such a lost opportunity. The lions fall over the line by a goal and we get ripped off.

Sometimes the better team loses the game. That should have been Carlton tonight.

Clear free kicks to us in the last 5 minutes ignored. A ridiculous goal line review.

Sometimes good teams win when they haven't played their best. That should have been us. 

I really detest the AFL. 

[wisedog 352]

One would think if you have two angles available to you then you would be able to synchronise the footage as is done in the cricket: stop the front on angle at the point the ball appears to be touched, then go to the other footage to see where the ball is at that moment. Do they match? Or has the ball passed the player?

It could have been done tonight but the reviewer rushed the decision and fell back on the soft call.

Edited August 12, 2023 by wisedog

[Sir Why You Little 37,296]

1 minute ago, Brownie said:

Yeah, I'm angry.

Such a lost opportunity. The lions fall over the line by a goal and we get ripped off.

Sometimes the better team loses the game. That should have been Carlton tonight.

Clear free kicks to us in the last 5 minutes ignored. A ridiculous goal line review.

Sometimes good teams win when they haven't played their best. That should have been us. 

I really detest the AFL. 

Yep. We just have to suck it up

but it was wrong 

[praha 11,253]

Carlton maybe deserved to win that but we were undoubtedly robbed.

Confident we beat them in finals. They would be filthy with that loss. Hopefully it motivates them.

Brown is done but he's a better inclusion than Grundy because he doesn't infringe on Gawn. We'd have been better without Grundy tonight. 

Carlton were desperate to play finals. That was always a loss in the books. They needed to tick that box.

Felt like tonight was similar to Melb v West Coast circa round 22 in 2018. If we meet them in finals we'll bury them. They won a 50/50 H&A game tonight. Not threatened by a team that loses 6 in a row during the year.

 

[cookieboc 780]

4 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

We did go away from the system, last 5min was everyone trying to win the game off their own boot. Need to stick to the plans and not panic. 

yeah, felt like we wanted to move it too quick, went back to bombing to packs in the pocket. no one moving into space, almost the opposite to how the system worked against Brisbane. 

 

[kev martin 10,670]

They were the most ungracious supporters on my walk home.

I sat above the Demon Army. There were a few blues wanting to fight them, pointing, abusing (I think), the security step in and the bad people run away. 

Imagine if Tracc's kick goes through, maybe I wouldn't get home.

The constant calls by Le blue, for htb, throws, in the back amazed me, considering how we tackled well and didn't get reward. Also looked like plenty of scragging against our players. 

Forward area marking goes astray with Petty out. 

When we mark we are a better team.

May and Lever have something going.

Need Max firing when playing with Grundy.

Viney in and under everything.

Cannot let the other team get goals from their kick ins. Something to work on, I guess.

Not too unhappy, though would have like to be still winning on the "G".

Again, no sportsmanship from the winners, entitled lot and lacking any humility.

 

[Seraph 1,824]

55 minutes ago, Maldonboy38 said:

I have major issues with Salem running into an open goal, unpressured, and not making the distance from about 42 metres. I just don't get it. Furious with that.

Honestly, he needs time in the VFL. Has looked a shadow of himself for the past month. Disposal (his main strength) has been shocking.

[layzie 34,326]

Must say I'm a lot more worried about the Salem kick than the Trac kick. What the hell was that?

[deegirl 1,584]

50 minutes ago, Demon_spurs said:

Really the video is a sham, grainy footage, no clear angles, for a multi million dollar sport its a joke, and please dont cofuse my statement with my level of disappointment, I would love to have pipped the blues again on the siren. 

If you want to see VAR done properly watch the soccer. AFL is a tight fisted joke

THIS 👏👏👏

In soccer they can tell to the millimetre if someone is offside yet the AFL won’t pay for a goal line camera. 
 

If the technology was there & we’d lost so be it. But in this case we’re left wondering. 
 

The AFL bang on how how professional it is but are ok with games being decided using footage grainier than the Zapruder film…it’s a joke. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by deegirl

[Redleg 41,933]

You can see why we lost in one passage of play.

The Docherty goal came from 4 Dees fumbling the ball and he picks it up and kicks the goal.

We fumbled and mis kicked and mis handballed and dropped marks all night.

[The heart beats true 18,183]

Just got home from the ground. I had a rubbish seat, which meant I was right on the line of that goal at the end. That was clearly a goal. I’m still livid. I don’t think I can get over it.

[Adam The God 30,602]

The other thing that seemed obvious tonight was the lack of midfield cohesion, which was undoubtedly thrown off by the return of Clarry.

It's no one's fault, we just have to find better cohesion. Multiple players going for the same ground ball and lacking trust in team mates to win it. Happened at the back too.

This was then exacerbated by Carlton's pressure.

[Clintosaurus 7,926]

10 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Wasn't there once upon a time you could actually zoom right in?

Does that not exist anymore???

Only when they want to. Like if it helps Geelong or Collingwood.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

8 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

We looked at sea behind the ball with Smith there. As soon as he moved forward, both ends of the ground looked better.

I've changed my view based on Petty's injury and tonight's performance.

I think we'll go two talls at the back (May and Lever) with Hibbo from now on.

Smith into the sub role and Tmac or Brown in to support JVR, JVR into second ruck spot.

If Tmac or BB aren't fit, Smith stays and bring in Harmes. He could not be any worse than JJ was.

I can't recall a game in the last three years where we've been so comprehensively beaten as we were tonight.

It's hard not to knee-jerk to a result like tonight. Carlton were awesome, but we were on the backfoot the entire night and were never able to properly sustain a counter punch or even offer one at all.

I don't wanna say we're done, but I expected to win, we should have won, they had a lot out and they controlled the game, stifled us with pressure and held us off all night.

The funny thing is season's can hinge on very small moments and you need the luck going your way. If that Trac goal at the end was an umpire's call of goal (if you watch the hands on the head's of Carlton defenders directly after the ball crosses the line - it didn't look touched to me), all of a sudden the narrative completely shifts. Melbourne have won 6 in a row, top 2 is pretty much secured, Carlton's 8 game streak is broken and everyone goes here come Melbourne. 

The response the next fortnight will be instructive, and I hope we use tonight (a finals like game) to make bold selection moves to give ourselves the best chance of winning our 14th flag.

Spot on about one the sub was made.

Do you think Grundy stays? I’m conflicted.

 

[DEE fence 5,045]

Carlton can carry on all they like, they played hard and worked their butt's off, and won by the width of a Bee's phallus, truth is they were lucky and we didn't have an even performance. We were so close, it hurts, has ruined my week etc, but when I watch the contested effort to get back from 3 goals down in the fourth I am amazed by how hard the players were. Brayshaw, Rivers, Viney, were stone cold killers at the contest and were the reason why we had a chance to win, just the execution was off with goal kicking. But that contested game will win 9/10 games of football. We are winning the flag with that pressure and two more games to get fwd 50 right. 

[danielE288 779]

Ungracious winners. Nearly came to blows in the MCC, unsure how some of those people even managed to get in. Hurts that result