PREGAME: Rd 18 vs Brisbane

[buck_nekkid 5,874]

Just now, Roost it far said:

Bombers stretched us because Grundy was poor defensively that day. Gawn can play the drop back ruck much better than Grundy, whose strength is post ruck clearance work. We also have a really settled back half and should be able to comfortably cover Brisbane playing 2 rucks. This game will be won at contest. Beat them there and it’s all over.

True, it was reg’s lack of defensive nous that made this a problem….

[Lucifers Hero 39,856]

25 minutes ago, binman said:

I'm not doing that all luci.

I could not agree more that there are a myriad of other possibilities behind individual club decisions/team performance.

I have not ONCE argued otherwise.

And to be frank, I'm wholly sick of the inference that i have (not you, generally).

And please, the idea I subscribe to some loading 'dogma' is both inaccurate and insulting.

I had started typing a reply to this, as is.  But now that a whole swag of additional thoughts have been added to the post I figure it is time to bow out.

I respect your views and have said previously, your commitment to the cause.

[Jaded No More 68,949]

14 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Wach Fagan bring in Darcy Fort, to stretch us like last time/and like the bombers did.

If Fagan thinks they'll win at the MCG with more slow lumbering players, then all power to him.

[dl4e 5,851]

Geelong are now going to chase Grundy🙃

[Guest]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I wonder what your ex's version of events might be? Would he argue that he was just exercising his free agency rights? 

No, quite the opposite, LDvA. He wanted to be a one-club player. Around the middle of last year (mid-season trade period) I suggested he shop around because I couldn’t guarantee him another year at my club. With my blessing he checked out another club’s facilities but signing on would’ve meant he’d have to remain in Victoria and he had decided it was either remain in Victoria but only if it was in my club, or return to Western Australia to live with his mum (sound familiar? 😆)

[titan_uranus 25,020]

I suspect we are taking an opportunity to rest Grundy and to play a slightly more mobile side against Brisbane on the G.

This IMO doesn’t necessarily signal the end of the two ruck strategy. However, if we beat Brisbane, it’s going to create an awkward situation trying to get Brodie back in. 

Whatever the reason or outcome, those who have bagged Goodwin for “playing favourites” or “being stubborn” or for not rotating players in 2022 should be happy with this and should support it. 

[HBDee 364]

Grundy's fumbling of the ball is infuriating. Conditions in Alice Springs we're obviously bad, but it looked like he brought a wet ball to Docklands last week as well!

[DeeSpencer 25,716]

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

I may have missed some good conversation on this, and it's not specifically relevant to this game. I do wonder why we see less of Max dropping back in defence anymore. As strong as our defence is, I still think it's his best role. Does him doing that negate the effectiveness of our defence?

Does anyone (everyone) who is smarter than me, have some thoughts, on why there appears to be a shift away from this?

How’s he meant to drop back in defence if he’s playing forward?

If he’s only rucking half as much as he used to then he can only be in the backline half as much too.

 

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,736]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Petracca play a bit more mid time with JVR back, given the Lions midfield is a key strength.

Gawn will probably ruck 70% of the game also.

[Older demon 2,741]

Not unusual to rest someone with minor niggles on a 6 day break. The plan may be deeper than we thinks. JVR stood out of the last quarter on Sunday possibly with the plan to play Friday. Scache played the whole game

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

How’s he meant to drop back in defence if he’s playing forward?

If he’s only rucking half as much as he used to then he can only be in the backline half as much too.

 

My point is - he is playing forward now more often - why has this changed? When it seemed so useful in the premiership year.

[DeeSpencer 25,716]

There’s 3 factors with Grundy being Drested this week that haven’t been mentioned:

1. He went missing in the Cats game for a chunk of time that’s yet to be explained, he might’ve been carrying something since then and they’ve been eyeing an opportunity for a week off OR scared of being further damaged on 2 short breaks.

2. McInerney is very much a Gawn match up. Head to head its 2 bean pole marking type rucks. He also rucks 80% by himself and the remaining 20% is done by Daniher who can be very dangerous but kind of suits JVR (hopefully) as mostly a threat around the ground.

3. Grundy still makes a lot of odd positional decisions that don’t really show up on the stat sheet. Whilst I’m worried we’ll miss his follow up at stoppages and I’m worried Gawn’s about hacking of the ball I still have more confidence in Gawn getting to the right spots. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by DeeSpencer

[DeeSpencer 25,716]

3 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

My point is - he is playing forward now more often - why has this changed? When it seemed so useful in the premiership year.

Umm because Grundy is not a good forward where as Jackson in 2021 at least was really underrated as a mobile forward and not ready to ruck big minutes.

[Stu 925]

This could probably go in about 3 or 4 other threads, but I thought it was relevant to Grundy's omission/management/dumping/divorce/separation. Given that he had a low fitness base due to his long-term injury last year, I imagine what is stated below has probably impacted him a lot more than others (although you could see Max looked laboured in the Saints game as well). 

This is taken verbatim from an interview with Adam Yze taken earlier this week. The question was framed around the media's general perception that our position in 4th is really tenuous:

"We're really mindful of the way we finished last year. We really struggled and ran out of gas late last year. We feel this year in the end our goal was to make top 4, it always is. We finished in the top 4 last year and went out in straight sets, just by losing a lot of momentum and a lot of gas by the end of the year. We're really mindful of that. We had three really solid weeks of training - we had three 10-day breaks in a row. We were able to get a fair bit of training into our players, which we haven't had the opportunity to do that before (during this season). Our fitness staff set a really strong plan, and a really clear plan on getting an advantage with those three 10-day breaks in a row. It was like a little mini pre-season, they got a bit more volume... we're hoping that will give us a bit of a spike later in the year, so we don't have the same issues as last year."

Edited July 13, 2023 by Stu

[Roost it far 8,283]

3 minutes ago, Stu said:

This could probably go in about 3 or 4 other threads, but I thought it was relevant to Grundy's omission/management/dumping/divorce/separation. Given that he had a low fitness base due to his long-term injury last year, I imagine what is stated below has probably impacted him a lot more than others (although you could see Max looked laboured in the Saints game as well). 

This is taken verbatim from an interview with Adam Yze taken earlier this week. The question was framed around the media's general perception that our position in 4th is really tenuous:

"We're really mindful of the way we finished last year. We really struggled and ran out of gas late last year. We feel this year in the end our goal was to make top 4, it always is. We finished in the top 4 last year and we out in straight sets, just by losing a lot of momentum and a lot of gas by the end of the year. We're really mindful of that. We had three really solid weeks of training - we had three 10-day breaks in a row. We were able to get a fair bit of training into our players, which we haven't had the opportunity to do that before (during this season). Our fitness staff set a really strong plan, and a really clear plan on getting an advantage with those three 10-day breaks in a row. It was like a little mini pre-season, they got a bit more volume... we're hoping that will give us a bit of a spike later in the year, so we don't have the same issues as last year."

I knew binman was actually Yze.......

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, MrFreeze said:

It might be that the plan was to get as much forward line presence from both big men during the year, then let Gawn rip with full minutes in the late part of the year. We absolutely have a lot to gain with a KPF or extra runner replacing Grundy. But we need to get the timing juuuuust right. 

Could be MF.  Might have intended something like this all along

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,799]

If we're going into the game with one ruckman and JvR as backup, I expect one of Smith or Schache to be the sub.

Edit: Or Tomlinson

Edited July 13, 2023 by La Dee-vina Comedia

[Adam The God 30,261]

3 hours ago, MrFreeze said:

The ideal would have been Gawn or Grundy playing complete forward 50 role, but that just hasn't happened. Hopefully this shows some promising flexibility from Goody. It's also likely Grundy has some more years left compared to Gawn (just by my eye test), so we have a back up AA ruck if/when Gawn retires. 

The point of having two recognised elite ruckman in the 22 would surely be to have them both play 40-60 and 60-40 right? Or even 30-70 or whatever break down works, but it was about utilising both of them as rucks at different points of games.

[beelzebub 23,378]

21 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I suspect we are taking an opportunity to rest Grundy and to play a slightly more mobile side against Brisbane on the G.

This IMO doesn’t necessarily signal the end of the two ruck strategy. However, if we beat Brisbane, it’s going to create an awkward situation trying to get Brodie back in. 

Whatever the reason or outcome, those who have bagged Goodwin for “playing favourites” or “being stubborn” or for not rotating players in 2022 should be happy with this and should support it. 

Hmm.. I've been struggling with what this actually suggests ( i know some would add nothing new..boom tish...whatever )... but as you suggest TU it is far more likely about what it may BRING  to our game than about any "dropping"...

The FD are , to me, definitely trying to do something here thats a bit 5 into 4 and so something had to give. Theyve tried ( not altogether successfully imo ) to recreate some connection and straightness going in. It strikes me thar there may be a concious decision to ramp that up and the only way to really tell is to make these calls... revise the magnets...see what happens...not at traing but under fire.

Think we'll have a clearer understanding when the team selection comes out.

Im intrigued. 

 

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

25 minutes ago, Stu said:

This could probably go in about 3 or 4 other threads, but I thought it was relevant to Grundy's omission/management/dumping/divorce/separation. Given that he had a low fitness base due to his long-term injury last year, I imagine what is stated below has probably impacted him a lot more than others (although you could see Max looked laboured in the Saints game as well). 

This is taken verbatim from an interview with Adam Yze taken earlier this week. The question was framed around the media's general perception that our position in 4th is really tenuous:

"We're really mindful of the way we finished last year. We really struggled and ran out of gas late last year. We feel this year in the end our goal was to make top 4, it always is. We finished in the top 4 last year and we out in straight sets, just by losing a lot of momentum and a lot of gas by the end of the year. We're really mindful of that. We had three really solid weeks of training - we had three 10-day breaks in a row. We were able to get a fair bit of training into our players, which we haven't had the opportunity to do that before (during this season). Our fitness staff set a really strong plan, and a really clear plan on getting an advantage with those three 10-day breaks in a row. It was like a little mini pre-season, they got a bit more volume... we're hoping that will give us a bit of a spike later in the year, so we don't have the same issues as last year."

Well that’s put me back in my box, here’s hoping it works!

[titan_uranus 25,020]

25 minutes ago, Stu said:

This could probably go in about 3 or 4 other threads, but I thought it was relevant to Grundy's omission/management/dumping/divorce/separation. Given that he had a low fitness base due to his long-term injury last year, I imagine what is stated below has probably impacted him a lot more than others (although you could see Max looked laboured in the Saints game as well). 

This is taken verbatim from an interview with Adam Yze taken earlier this week. The question was framed around the media's general perception that our position in 4th is really tenuous:

"We're really mindful of the way we finished last year. We really struggled and ran out of gas late last year. We feel this year in the end our goal was to make top 4, it always is. We finished in the top 4 last year and went out in straight sets, just by losing a lot of momentum and a lot of gas by the end of the year. We're really mindful of that. We had three really solid weeks of training - we had three 10-day breaks in a row. We were able to get a fair bit of training into our players, which we haven't had the opportunity to do that before (during this season). Our fitness staff set a really strong plan, and a really clear plan on getting an advantage with those three 10-day breaks in a row. It was like a little mini pre-season, they got a bit more volume... we're hoping that will give us a bit of a spike later in the year, so we don't have the same issues as last year."

@binman @A F - this is what I've been crying out for. I have wanted to see someone from the club say something to support your theories that we added training volume through the middle of the year. Here it is.

Interestingly though, this reads to me as though Yze is suggesting we didn't do this last year.

[Adam The God 30,261]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

If Fagan thinks they'll win at the MCG with more slow lumbering players, then all power to him.

Yep, I hope they select Fort too.

[Pulp Fritschon 740]

Brave by the club and I applaud them. Can’t remember the last time either Gawn or Grundy took a mark inside 50 and Grundy was bog ordinary last week. 

Our year is meandering along as if it is 2022 need to do something. 

JVR and Brown forward with JVR second ruck. Maybe try Schache for a month as 3rd forward. Gawn to ruck and drift back not forward. Melksham can stay in as Fritsch is out.  Tracc more forward. Kossie to get some midfield minutes. 
 

[Adam The God 30,261]

14 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

@binman @A F - this is what I've been crying out for. I have wanted to see someone from the club say something to support your theories that we added training volume through the middle of the year. Here it is.

Interestingly though, this reads to me as though Yze is suggesting we didn't do this last year.

I interpreted his quote to mean him saying we hadn't had 3 10 day breaks in a row before, which is true. 

[Adam The God 30,261]

4 minutes ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

Brave by the club and I applaud them. Can’t remember the last time either Gawn or Grundy took a mark inside 50 and Grundy was bog ordinary last week. 

Our year is meandering along as if it is 2022 need to do something. 

JVR and Brown forward with JVR second ruck. Maybe try Schache for a month as 3rd forward. Gawn to ruck and drift back not forward. Melksham can stay in as Fritsch is out.  Tracc more forward. Kossie to get some midfield minutes. 
 

7 clearances is BOG ordinary? Righto, Pulpy.