On 08/07/2023 at 15:37, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

14.12 in the last quarter, ANB burns Woewodin on the outside, dummies back on the inside, ignore Ben Brown on the lead alone and then kicks long to Charlie Spargo top of the goal square. He needs a serious lesson on decision making. Gives his all, but too often makes extremely poor decisions. Did it earlier in the game running inside 50 and had the whole goals open and went for a pass to the pocket that was easily defended. It’s been years of watching him do it. Last week, is inability to execute the 45 kick inside 50 probably cost us the game. Get it fixed Nibbler!

That was disappointing 

But in fairness, Q1 09:40 remaining, he broke out of the centre, demanded the lead, and laced a pass to leading BBB who goaled

My dad told me many years ago, good sides win when not playing well. We are far from GF form but we played a lot better last night than the previous couple. Gawn is not playing well at present honestly if he was not the captain and his  name was Joe Blow he would be dropped after last nights game and the previous couple. Our mid field plays a lot better when the bun is in the centre. It won't happen but imo Max needs a rest. 

Will need to watch the replay but having read some of the comments on the thread I'm not sure we should equate St Kilda down three players = Melbourne were poor for not putting them away. Both sides had their issues to deal with, theirs on the night and us coming into the game with another makeshift forward combination and a less experienced midfield due to pushing Trac forward. It felt a bit like the Suns game where they were really hard at it throughout but we did just enough during the periods where we were in the ascendency to keep them at bay by being better in front of goal. 

I was really flat after last week but it helps just to look at how a game plays out in isolation rather than what it does or doesn't do for our premiership chances. We're already into the back half of the year and a long summer without any football is just over the horizon. 

  On 08/07/2023 at 22:39, buck_nekkid said:

 i have to ask, what’s up with Max?  Hardly holds a mark and is rarely threatening.  He marks and we look so much better. Really worry that the whole ‘tap bros’ is not paying dividends yet.

Agree. I don't know if he's injured, out of form, getting pummelled in the ruck contest or a combo of all three. At the very least, he needs to work on his body language. It's poor and not a good look for a captain.

Edited July 8, 20231 yr by Roger Mellie
Fun

  On 08/07/2023 at 22:44, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Worth noting that we kicked 5 straight in the first Qrt. And after an initial 10 minutes period of high-pressure football from Saints we looked quite dominant

Unsure of any correlation to handballs, but we played some really good football in Q1

Quite true and good point. On reflection, I wonder if our handballs in the first were generally to targets a little further away from the immediate contest? It seemed as the game went on, our handballs were often to a player in or very close to the immediate contest which meant they were under pressure as soon as they received the ball.

  On 08/07/2023 at 20:41, rpfc said:

We relied heavily on stoppage goals early, so our turnover game was not there, our press was cut through early too. Quick teams will always do well against a press. Thankfully May is a great backstop.

It was hard to see on TV but we looked like we weren’t as aggressive with the high press and allowed more chains off half back - by definition it creates more spaces for forwards if you with it quick.

St Kilda did what most teams try against us, which is the chip game from half back. It got them to the wing, and then they had to go to the contest. So we've made adjustments there since last year.

We played quite a high line (to use a soccer analogy), often we were able to intercept or create a contest at their half forward to prevent an entry from there.

What I found interesting is that despite the luck of King going down early, which freed up May, we never played a goalkeeper in defensive 50 stoppages. We played one, usually Lever, at the back of those stoppages, but part of the contest, not a spare. This is definitely a tweak from earlier in the season, and I wonder if this is part of tightening up our goals conceded from defensive stoppage. And further, I wonder if this set up will change with the inclusion of Clarry.

Edited July 8, 20231 yr by A F

  On 08/07/2023 at 13:44, A F said:

Dreadful post, but good on you for your opinion.

Why was it a “Dreadful post” ?

  On 08/07/2023 at 12:04, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Are we in premiership form? No. But we kicked straight, we had space and movement in the forward line, we found some easier goals than we have in a long 5-6 weeks.

Trac forward worked, but without Clarry leaves us exposed in the midfield so Saints got some clearances they shouldn’t. 

Gawndy still worries me, Brodie isn’t a contested marking forward and Max isn’t 100% fit for mine. 

Kozzie quiet, doesn’t worry me. Effort is there. ANB did some good things, ain’t the problem either. 
 

edit: BBB good for mine, he’s past chasing half backs up the ground but he leads and creates space, good disposal and should’ve had 2 goals.

Is there a chance we have seen the best of Max?

  On 08/07/2023 at 12:45, spirit of norm smith said:

Goodys presser 
 

- Saints well coached and good defensive side 

- Efficiency was the difference in the game 

- Trac Brown and Melksham experience and worked well but not perfect 

- Trac plays key role in finding avenues to goal . Getting inside 50 in past weeks was ok but needed to hit scoreboard and Trac provided that 

- Importantly more midfield time for sparrow and jordon 

- Challenging conditions last few weeks and Choco will be happy with goalkicking tonight 

fairly ho hum presser 

 

Good, i think some of our connection issues are to do with our stars not actually being able to hit targets.

We need some class in teh middle to help them out or better balance.

As a fan base we pick a lot on role players like ANB who aer having a crack but don't hold stars to account for poor decision making and continued ball wasting.

Good to see Gus getting more midfeild time as well. He might not be the quickest but generally dosen't waste it.

Edited July 8, 20231 yr by Cheap Seats

Ross Lyon's teams rarely lose big. That was St.Kilda's 3rd biggest loss of the year, they've lost by more than 5 goals only once and their two biggest losses were to the two highest scoring teams Brisbane and Adelaide.

We held them to their 3rd lowest score of the year and we did it at their home ground.

St.Kilda played very high pressure football and are 5th for a reason. Yes we needed to win after they were down 2 rotations (not 3 as many have posted), but they were down two talls not 2 runners. Yes the talls play high gametime but that's because they don't run as much.

We're "defence first", the 2nd best defensive team, and we just out defended the 3rd best defensive team after beating the best defensive team on KBW.

Our game style wins big finals. We lost last year because we were too beaten up, not because of fundamental game style flaws. We're always in the game and have only lost by more than 3 goals only once this year.  

Someone is going to have to beat us to win the flag and that won't be easy.

Edited July 8, 20231 yr by old55

  On 08/07/2023 at 15:37, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

14.12 in the last quarter, ANB burns Woewodin on the outside, dummies back on the inside, ignore Ben Brown on the lead alone and then kicks long to Charlie Spargo top of the goal square. He needs a serious lesson on decision making. Gives his all, but too often makes extremely poor decisions. Did it earlier in the game running inside 50 and had the whole goals open and went for a pass to the pocket that was easily defended. It’s been years of watching him do it. Last week, is inability to execute the 45 kick inside 50 probably cost us the game. Get it fixed Nibbler!

And dont forget the crucial fumbles Unaceptable ,but Goody loves him sooo..

  On 08/07/2023 at 21:49, dino rover said:

Except that gawns ruck craft has become one dimensional at stoppages

its push the opponent under the ball grab it and hack it fwd

he can’t or won’t jump in the contest and we don’t see any palming to advantage or punches fwd 

I think his main game is marking in field play 

SO are you saying Max is cooked ??

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:05, Cheap Seats said:

Is there a chance we have seen the best of Max?

Yep!

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:25, old55 said:

Ross Lyon's teams rarely lose big. That was St.Kilda's 3rd biggest loss of the year, they've list by more than 5 goals only once and their two biggest losses were to the two highest scoring teams Brisbane and Adelaide.

We held them to their 3rd lowest score of the year and we did it at their home ground.

St.Kilda played very high pressure football and are 5th for a reason. Yes we needed to win after they were down 2 rotations (not 3 as many have posted), but they were down two talls not 2 runners. Yes the talls play high gametime but that's because they don't run as much.

We're "defence first", the 2nd best defensive team, and we just out defended the 3rd best defensive team after beating the best defensive team on KBW.

Our game style wins big finals. We lost last year because we were too beaten up, not because of fundamental game style flaws. We're always in the game and have only lost by more than 3 goals only once this year.  

Someone is going to have to beat us to win the flag and that won't be easy.

Yes, I do sometimes stop and think about that. No team relishes playing us, and as I said in another thread last week - we should always be in games and a chance to win, even with our known forward issues.

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:26, picket fence said:

Yep!

so we have built a whole game plan around two dominant ruck man neither of who are playing well

hope good win has a plan B

  On 08/07/2023 at 20:58, dazzledavey36 said:

Agree, [censored] comment.

People who live interstate and physically can't get to the games are now not allowed to give an opinions and observations on the game? Spare me alright.

 

Lol. Never said that.

I asked about attending the game because the first pages of these threads are so incredibly negative. I hate watching on the TV, as you get a very one dimensional perspective on the game - which is further influenced by mediocre commentary.

St Kilda brought a lot of heat and should be given credit, and that was very evident at the ground. I also thought our defensive running and structure was very good last night, and our ability to absorb pressure was outstanding. You can’t see that in a tight contest shot on the TV.

The first pages of this thread are a a lot of comments focussed on ‘fumbles, and mistakes’ when that’s the inside contest game we are literally trying to create with our hard running and team defensive work. None of that you can see on TV.

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:04, Abyssal said:

Why was it a “Dreadful post” ?

Because it laid blame at the feet of Grundy and Gawn. I've already talked about Grundy's game, our leading clearance winner, with strong score involvements. Grundy had 1 less clearance than Marshall who was arguably St Kilda's best, and Grundy played 67% TOG versus Marshall's 95%. Our rucks at the very least drew even with Marshall...

Marshall's stats were 8 clearances, 7 inside 50s, 3 contested marks, 299 metres gained, 30 disposals, 7 tackles, 15 hit outs.

Grundy and Gawn had 11 clearances, 6 inside 50s, 3 contested marks, 364m gained, 29 disposals, 6 tackles, 38 hit outs. 

Hard to mount an argument that Marshall 'dominated' them, but that's what you get when your 'analysis' is based on blind emotion.

Then the post claimed our second best pressure player playing close to 90% TOG should go to Casey.

That's not a good post, but I'm sure you'll disagree with absolutely nothing to back it up with except you're a bit annoyed and neggy.

  On 08/07/2023 at 15:21, picket fence said:

WCW I, and others would pay a Kings Ransome to see you running around relaying messages! You might well be like this guy...

More like this..

Steven May take a bow. 

I thought James Jordon played one of his  best games for the club. He is way too good for Casey and I really hope he gets a good crack it especially whilst Clarrie is out. Hope they can find a spot for him later in the season. 

  On 08/07/2023 at 16:07, binman said:

 

Marshall was awesome - he is a star. As is Sinclair.

And they have some real quality young players. 

Would love to steal Marshall. He’s the quintessential modern day ruckman. Really love how he plays. 

  On 08/07/2023 at 20:41, rpfc said:

We relied heavily on stoppage goals early, so our turnover game was not there, our press was cut through early too. Quick teams will always do well against a press. Thankfully May is a great backstop.

It was hard to see on TV but we looked like we weren’t as aggressive with the high press and allowed more chains off half back - by definition it creates more spaces for forwards if you with it quick.

I definitely felt like our press wasn’t as high. Its hard to tell if that was a result of a coaching adjustment, or if that’s how we want to defend on a dryer deck.

Those that have made reference to their 3 injuries and impact on their capacity to run out the game. Two of the injuries (King and Cordy) were to key talls that generally play high minutes with limited rotation and  dont play running roles. So it was basically Seb Ross for Byrnes so negligible impact to their running game. You could argue they had more run on the ground at any one time due to having to play smaller. 

It’s a quality win against a good defensive pressure side breathing down our neck for a top 4 spot at a ground we rarely play at. 

Kudo’s to JJ for a quality game in the pivot, May in boss mode and Trac showing the nightmare match up he could be forward at the pointy end of the season. 

Edited July 8, 20231 yr by Lil_red_fire_engine

  On 08/07/2023 at 13:33, A F said:

We'd forgotten how to win, so very glad to get over the line.

The biggest area of our game to improve is ground ball. We were smashed in that area. I'm sure @WheeloRatings will give us those numbers in the stats thread 🙏.

St Kilda's run for pretty much the entire game was incredible given they were down to one on the bench by the end.

Some of the commentary on the Facebook pages are deadset ridiculous. 

People constantly going Kozzy, when he's played another 87% TOG game (6th most for us) and had the third most pressure acts on the ground with 26, behind Gus on 27 and Steele with 30. 

Some nuffy called up 3AW and whinged about him as well. Tony Shaw stuck up for Kozzy. When Tony Shaw is speaking more sense than you, you know you're in trouble.

Meanwhile, people having a go at Grundy, who was probably one of our better players, and certainly not a long way behind May and Trac. 

FWIW, Grundy had the most clearances for us with 7, 4 tackles and 5 score involvements. 

Too many people have absolutely no idea about the modern game. I heard people still screaming out 'man up' like it was 1996.

We got the win, move on to Brisbane.

I have just posted the Stats Files update - we lost the ground ball gets by 8. Melbourne's season average differential is +3.6 (ranked 3rd) but St Kilda's is +4.1 (ranked 1st).

 

  On 08/07/2023 at 12:36, The heart beats true said:

I have a question…

How many of you criticising that game went to the ground?

Sorry, but I didn’t realise you actually had to have been to a game before you are allowed to offer an opinion on our teams performance.

  On 08/07/2023 at 23:33, A F said:

Because it laid blame at the feet of Grundy and Gawn. I've already talked about Grundy's game, our leading clearance winner, with strong score involvements. Grundy had 1 less clearance than Marshall who was arguably St Kilda's best, and Grundy played 67% TOG versus Marshall's 95%. Our rucks at the very least drew even with Marshall...

Marshall's stats were 8 clearances, 7 inside 50s, 3 contested marks, 299 metres gained, 30 disposals, 7 tackles, 15 hit outs.

Grundy and Gawn had 11 clearances, 6 inside 50s, 3 contested marks, 364m gained, 29 disposals, 6 tackles, 38 hit outs. 

Hard to mount an argument that Marshall 'dominated' them, but that's what you get when your 'analysis' is based on blind emotion.

Then the post claimed our second best pressure player playing close to 90% TOG should go to Casey.

That's not a good post, but I'm sure you'll disagree with absolutely nothing to back it up with except you're a bit annoyed and neggy.

Quote all the stats you like, 

Grundy was poor, Gawn was a long way from his best, Pickett was a passenger and MFC were unimpressive winning against a side who lost 3 players to injury early in the game.

If We lost in the same circumstances as StKilda, everyone on this Forum would be bemoaning how Unlucky we were.

GCDee’s original post was completely reasonable and certainly NOT Dreadful.

PS. Do you get “paid by the word” ?