NON-MFC: Rd 17 2023

[McQueen 17,864]

Just now, Roost it far said:

That didn’t last long

Context…..

[The heart beats true 16,485]

Collingwood memberships are still available for those of you who seem so keen.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

2 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Collingwood memberships are still available for those of you who seem so keen.

Clearly not. 

But it'd be nice to be able to take some inspiration from what Fly has achieved with that group. 

How positive and proactive game-plans can reinforce the idea that footy is fun. Providing the perfect environment for players to be 'up' for every game. Giving your supporters and members no option but to want to come and watch the style of football you play. 

The reasons are many. And it's just consistent positive feedback loop after loop. 

Goodwin is burning out players and supporters with his rigidity and sameness. Few list changes, few change-ups to positions. All little too late. 

And now we're coming to the pointy end of the season and we have a completely dysfunctional forward half and have two 'elite' ruckman who are just completely ineffective forward of the ball. Mids who just refuse to use the ball well. A full back who is instructed to kick to the same spot every kick out. It's a snore-fest. 

Give me some excitement!

 

[spirit of norm smith 13,427]

Hmmmm. Fast attacking footy with overlap running.  Not secret sauce.  

[layzie 29,771]

Escaped the pits of hell for another day 

[John Demonic 4,902]

3 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Clearly not. 

But it'd be nice to be able to take some inspiration from what Fly has achieved with that group. 

How positive and proactive game-plans can reinforce the idea that footy is fun. Providing the perfect environment for players to be 'up' for every game. Giving your supporters and members no option but to want to come and watch the style of football you play. 

The reasons are many. And it's just consistent positive feedback loop after loop. 

Goodwin is burning out players and supporters with his rigidity and sameness. Few list changes, few change-ups to positions. All little too late. 

And now we're coming to the pointy end of the season and we have a completely dysfunctional forward half and have two 'elite' ruckman who are just completely ineffective forward of the ball. Mids who just refuse to use the ball well. A full back who is instructed to kick to the same spot every kick out. It's a snore-fest. 

Give me some excitement!

 

Kings Birthday must've been a tough watch for you

[Dee Zephyr 18,022]

Collingwood Bots are back

[sue 8,477]

8 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Collingwood like every side have their weak areas. 

But they're streets ahead of us right now in almost all facets. And we are well behind Port and Brisbane. 

...

How the hell did we beat them then?

[Roost it far 6,241]

1 minute ago, sue said:

How the hell did we beat them then?

Don’t worry about him, he’s having a difficult time travelling through Europe. 😂

[Macca 16,173]

1 hour ago, sue said:

How the hell did we beat them then?

We haven't played as well as we played that day in any other game this season

Played some good games, some ok games and a number of mediocre efforts

At least we know that we have a high ceiling but can we play that way on a consistent basis?  Hope so

And unless we get our season back on track we may not get to play the Pies again anyway

Edited July 7, 2023 by Macca

[buck_nekkid 5,577]

After the game Leppitsch spoke about the fatigue of the players being a big part of the last quarter fade out. @binman, I think this supports your oft-maligned theory that teams Load during the mid part of the year.  He also spoke about th e8 day break in front of them allowing them to freshen up.

BTW - Leppitsch looks like a cartoon character, maybe from that Disney elemental movie…

[sue 8,477]

16 minutes ago, Macca said:

We haven't played as well as we played that day in any other game this season

Played some good games, some ok games and a number of mediocre efforts

At least we know that we have a high ceiling but can we play that way on a consistent basis?  Hope so

And unless we get our season back on track we may not get to play the Pies again anyway

All true.  Let's hope we get back on track.  But let's not over-estimate the strength of our adversaries and be intimidated, which was the point I was vaguely trying to make. 

[whatwhat say what 19,719]

12 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Not to wish ill on anyone but Jack Crisp needs to miss a game someway or another sometime soon. He’s creeping closer to Jimmy’s record. 😡

meh, played during the 'bye' era

doesn't count

[Pipefitter 2,042]

13 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Ugal-hagen is slowly emerging as a star of the comp.

Fabulous work ethic. Multiple leads high up the ground and doubling back occasionaly for a few inside 50.

2nd efforts and some great passes inside.

The kid is a freak. Would kill to have someone of his skill in our forward line.

[whatwhat say what 19,719]

10 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

But it'd be nice to be able to take some inspiration from what Fly has achieved with that group.

what...nothing?

they've made one prelim so far and are raging premiership favourites in his third year; he's a good coach but he's not the messiah

they play a fantastic brand of footy that's seen them sneak a few wins that they probably should have lost

let's see how many premierships they've got in seven years time

[BW511 2,287]

5 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

what...nothing?

they've made one prelim so far and are raging premiership favourites in his third year; he's a good coach but he's not the messiah

they play a fantastic brand of footy that's seen them sneak a few wins that they probably should have lost

let's see how many premierships they've got in seven years time

If you are talking from a fans perspective, he’s achieved so much.

Their membership and crowd numbers would be through the roof. They are in every game until the final siren. When on song they play brilliant, spectator friendly football.

Their game is based around a 19 year old kid, so they have plenty to be excited about for the future too. In 7 years time, Nick Daicos will be 26. I think they’ll be just fine

Edited July 8, 2023 by BW511

[Macca 16,173]

23 minutes ago, sue said:

All true.  Let's hope we get back on track.  But let's not over-estimate the strength of our adversaries and be intimidated, which was the point I was vaguely trying to make. 

We haven't got Collingwood's measure so in my case, I'm not hanging my hat on that win.  We didn't see their best in the QB clash (I'm still calling it that)

We also defeated Hawthorn during the 1988 season so even though they smashed us in the GF, there was a reasonable amount of optimism from Demon supporters going into that GF

We also ran Essendon close in 2000 (2 goal loss) so they made sure of things with their thuggery in the GF.  Sheedy with his paranoia was almost certainly worried about us stealing their chance to win the cup

So to challenge the Pies again we need to play against them again (in the finals)

So beat St Kilda is the first assignment but then it's the Lions next week (without Fritsch & probably Oliver)

 

[binman 39,089]

11 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Collingwood like every side have their weak areas. 

But they're streets ahead of us right now in almost all facets. And we are well behind Port and Brisbane. 

They way they play is so exciting and attractive to watch. And they're just always in games, no matter how much they're down by. 

Tomorrow is a true test for where we sit compared to teams 5th-8th.

Can Goodwin inspire us to a comfortable win against a less talented side who have some significant outs? 

I have little confidence. 

A serious question jimmy - not trying a gotcha. Two in fact.

Other than 'any team can be beaten on their day' how do you reconcile your assessment of the pies as the dominant team and 'streets ahead of us' with the fact we beat them three games back.

I mean that was no lucky win. The scoreboard well and truly flattered them. We were clearly the better team on the day. Goody out coached mcrae, we took away their strengths and smashed them in the contest. 

The second question is, the lions also beat them, and in much the same manner - deny them space, take away the corridor and smash them in the contest.

Yes that game was at the gabba, but like us, the lions also dominated them. 

Do you not think it is a concern that, added to the fact they lost two of three finals last year, the pies been soundly beaten by 2 of 3 of their key serious rivals tgia season and with the same strategy (and pretty easily too I might add)?

On a related note, if we were talking about the dees with a similarly poor record against other genuine contenders and in big games, plenty of dl posters would be highlighting that record and warning we aren't that good (in fact IIRC,  variations of that theme were frequently pssted in dl in 2021 and 2022). 

[Jaded No More 59,146]

Port vs Pies in two weeks will be a fascinating watch 

[binman 39,089]

56 minutes ago, BW511 said:

If you are talking from a fans perspective, he’s achieved so much.

Their membership and crowd numbers would be through the roof. They are in every game until the final siren. When on song they play brilliant, spectator friendly football.

Their game is based around a 19 year old kid, so they have plenty to be excited about for the future too. In 7 years time, Nick Daicos will be 26. I think they’ll be just fine

Great.

Fans gets the warm and fuzzies.

Footy is about winning flags not selling badges.

Mcrae had achieved nothing. Zilch.

A bunch of home and away wins. Three finals. Two losses - including a preliminary final to a team who proceeded to get flogged by 15 goals in the gf.

Meanwhile we have a coach who has actually achieved something - he has won a flag, breaking a 57 year drought. 

He has coached 150 afl games, with a 58% win loss ratio. Won 5 of 8 finals he has coached, including 50 50 in prelims.

By way of contrast, clarkson, often hailed as the best coach of the modern era, had a win loss ratio at the hawks of 60%. 

Get back to me when mcrae can boast a record anywhere near as impressive as goodys.

Mcrae is on a hiding to nothing this year.

The pies are a fantastic team. But given the fact they have no record of success, other than some home and away wins, the expectations on them are just ridiculous.

People just seem to be accepting they will win the flag and are streets ahead of their rivals. The last time I can recall such expectation is the tigers in 2018. The big difference is the tigers wete coming off aligning a flag, not getting bundled put of the final in a prelim.

What happens if they don't win the flag? It will be viewed by most as a failure. Team and coach fail. Which is just ridiculous.

What does that do to the optimism and postive energy everyone seems to love about the pies? How does the team rebound?

Say it continues to dominate the 2024 home and away season. Two failed finals campaigns will hang over the club like a huge question mark shaped shadow.

Edited July 8, 2023 by binman

[Binmans PA 26,501]

11 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Collingwood like every side have their weak areas. 

But they're streets ahead of us right now in almost all facets. And we are well behind Port and Brisbane. 

They way they play is so exciting and attractive to watch. And they're just always in games, no matter how much they're down by. 

Tomorrow is a true test for where we sit compared to teams 5th-8th.

Can Goodwin inspire us to a comfortable win against a less talented side who have some significant outs? 

I have little confidence. 

St Kilda have 'significant' outs? You're an A grade hedger, Steve. Already laying the ground work for a lose-lose situation for the MFC.

Binners has responded in a kinder, less inflammatory manner than I would have managed, but he lays out my thinking.

There's a huge contradiction in your constant complaints and criticism of Goody. Binman and I both said we'd beat Collingwood in the lead up to that game, and sure enough, despite not winning by 5+ goals due to ordinary accuracy again, we beat the media darlings that you seem to rate so much.**

We and others have pointed out their vulnerabilities that 3rd and 4th placed teams have now exploited in 2023.

Whilst these results don't necessarily say anything about their chances of ultimate success at the end of 2023 (look at Hawthorn's 2015 record against 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th during the season), it's more the vulnerabilities in their game plan that have been repeatedly exposed in big games now. 2 of the 3 big finals last year and the two games against contenders this year.

At what point is that enough evidence to suggest their game style doesn't stand up in contested, pressure games?

You're having your cake and eating it too btw. If Collingwood are so great, reckon it might be reasonable to show a bit more humility towards Goody and our team, given we beat them.

** And before you go on again, I've constantly said I admire McRae for what he's been able to do in a short period of time, but the fact is their game style is a huge gamble, every play and it leaves them open on every play...

[spirit of norm smith 13,427]

Brownlow betting. N.Daicos absolutely the favourite now - that’s about 24 votes already !!! 

[Nascent 7,468]

Not a betting man but have we ever seen odds like this before?

Brisbane $1.01 vs West Coast $34

Unless West Coast can pull off a miracle upset, I'm hoping for an absolute bloodbath. 

One of a number of clubs that showed disdain for our club and kicked us when we were down.

[whatwhat say what 19,719]

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

If you are talking from a fans perspective, he’s achieved so much.

Their membership and crowd numbers would be through the roof. They are in every game until the final siren. When on song they play brilliant, spectator friendly football.

Their game is based around a 19 year old kid, so they have plenty to be excited about for the future too. In 7 years time, Nick Daicos will be 26. I think they’ll be just fine

their membership and crowd numbers have always been through the roof; second to meth coke, they're the biggest team in the competition and have been for a long, long time

they're great to watch

i actually think moore is their most important player over naicos

[Whispering_Jack 28,094]

Slightly off topic perhaps but there are a couple of VFL games in progress at the moment, both involving the Queensland teams.

These are the scores as of a couple of minutes ago -

Both Brisbane and Gold Coast are supported by the Academy system and the clubs have virtually unfettered access to players who qualify for their respective academies. GCS have three members who are potential top 10 draft picks this year. It shouldn’t be too long before people are calling for an end to this advantage.