PREGAME: Rd 17 vs St. Kilda

[KingDingAling 3,737]

I think St Kilda will do as they please. The game isn’t just win by list quality. St Kilda have made massive inroads under Ross. That in itself, is an endorsement on coaching. Do we have a far better list? Yes. But quality of list alone doesn’t correlate to success. 

[Adam The God 29,331]

22 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Hibberd is out for another 3 weeks. But other than that, not bad. And I would love to see Petracca isolated as a forward, it would scare the s..t out of anyone

I didn't know that abiut Hibbo. Then I'd just play Rivers in the back 6 there or bring in Gus to that spot, and move Laurie into the sub role to get another ball user and good decision maker into the team. 

[The heart beats true 17,753]

43 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

He hasn't done himself a lot of favours of late, but i agree he does use the ball cleverly. He at least knows to look sideways etc . 

Bit of an enigma . Not sure who he replaces.

Harmes.

Can’t have Sparrow, Harmes and ANB in the same side. One of them has to make way for someone who hits targets. ANB’s job is to cause stoppages with his tackling, which he does. Sparrow is more versatile in the middle. Charlie in for Harmes.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

I think St Kilda can smell a kill and will kill. 

No idea how some can hold faith. Now that Fritsch is out as well. 

We have zero confidence and Goody just clearly can't inspire. Whatever the msging, learnings and teaching at training, are clearly not working or being listened to. 

"It's something we're working incredibly hard at". How many times do we hear this... Joisus. 

Goody either simply has to address a list and positional change next year. Which means the game plan has to change more significantly than it ever has.

And I think we'd all welcome that.

So many go on and on about our defence... But it's gone too far. We've robbed Peter to pay Paul. 

We need a serious shake up of personnel and positional change through the midfield and forward line next year otherwise we're wasting our window.

Three new assistants who can challenge Goody would also be welcome. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by JimmyGadson

[Soidee 1,496]

Damien Hardwick anybody.?

[Dingo 1,014]

22 hours ago, rjay said:

Agree with you...and they need to let Kossie play footy, not just play defend. Lesser players can play that role.

I would look at Bowey forward or on a wing. We need someone with smarts who has good depth & hits targets with his kicks, players or goals.

Too many role players forward of centre is indeed the wrong mix.

Salem instead of Bowey

[Abyssal 434]

14 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

For once I agree with you, although I would include Howes as well and Oliver if okay . Harmes out too.

So you’ve finally changed your tune on ANB  🤣

[Dingo 1,014]

3 hours ago, DeeMee said:

What I think will happen:

JvR in - Fritsch out for season by the sounds of it.

Woey in - love him but Harmes too many mistakes

What I would like to see:

Smith to permanent sub, flexible to play different positions - Melksham out.

Then either:

Petty forward to actually really see if the experiment thing will work and Tommo in.

OR

Give Schache a run of games with JvR, BBB as forward talls.

Agree- especially about Smith.He is flexible - and smart

[rpfc 28,046]

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

I think St Kilda can smell a kill and will kill. 

No idea how some can hold faith. Now that Fritsch is out as well. 

We have zero confidence and Goody just clearly can't inspire. Whatever the msging, learnings and teaching at training, are clearly not working or being listened to. 

"It's something we're working incredibly hard at". How many times do we hear this... Joisus. 

Goody either simply has to address a list and positional change next year. Which means the game plan has to change more significantly than it ever has.

And I think we'd all welcome that.

So many go on and on about our defence... But it's gone too far. We've robbed Peter to pay Paul. 

We need a serious shake up of personnel and positional change through the midfield and forward line next year otherwise we're wasting our window.

Three new assistants who can challenge Goody would also be welcome. 

I agree with the shake up, but not sure what Goodwin should be saying instead.

CP5 and CO13 need to be sat down and told - we don’t dump the footy anymore. Kick to movement or to space. They are our window but they are the worst offenders. Jack Viney is half as good a kick but he has lowered his eyes and been so good this year.

I fully expect us to finish 4th and make a prelim even without Fritsch, but we still need some agitation and a tall forward with forward craft in 2024 and beyond. 

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,291]

2 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I agree with the shake up, but not sure what Goodwin should be saying instead.

CP5 and CO13 need to be sat down and told - we don’t dump the footy anymore. Kick to movement or to space. They are our window but they are the worst offenders. Jack Viney is half as good a kick but he has lowered his eyes and been so good this year.

I fully expect us to finish 4th and make a prelim even without Fritsch, but we still need some agitation and a tall forward with forward craft in 2024 and beyond. 

That is all well and good, we also need players who are smart enough to get front and centre when it’s kicked inside 50. It’s still a fundamental part of the game, yet it is one glaring area we clearly don’t set up for. I’m looking at Pickett and Chandler. Where the bloody hell are these blokes inside 50

[Demon Dynasty 17,091]

2 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

Hibberd is out for another 3 weeks. But other than that, not bad. And I would love to see Petracca isolated as a forward, it would scare the s..t out of anyone

I beg to differ Bobby.  He is too wayward and panicky with ball in hand anywhere in or around the arc for mine.  And a terrible set shot.

The rest is good but no point playing a mid as a forward if he has no composure there and can't hit the broadside of a barn.

He would need to spend massive training minutes and get some sort of assist from a forward pro in the off season to become a dangerous mid/forward imho.

I suggested this last year also, we should be throwing the kitchen sink at the little master and get him in for forward craft & forward skills (including set shots & 'other' styles of goal kicking) sessions ASAP.

He would also be fabulous for our small forward development with Chandler, Spargo & Kozzy all regressing in the latter part of this season.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

9 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I agree with the shake up, but not sure what Goodwin should be saying instead.

CP5 and CO13 need to be sat down and told - we don’t dump the footy anymore. Kick to movement or to space. They are our window but they are the worst offenders. Jack Viney is half as good a kick but he has lowered his eyes and been so good this year.

I fully expect us to finish 4th and make a prelim even without Fritsch, but we still need some agitation and a tall forward with forward craft in 2024 and beyond. 

That's the art of Coaching though. He's got to have more of an influence on our players or make the hard calls and change the list/positions etc. 

If they're not up to it or not listening, there's got to be some sort of statement made no? This is where I think his unwavering faith in his players works against him. 

I think supporters overrate Trac and Oliver. That sounds wild. But for elite players, they give the ball up far too often. And I'm not talking about their disposals when under pressure. 

Gus while not of the same quality is another. 

It's this lazy, automated and unaware habit that just kills us. Is the number one reason we we kick ourselves out of games and or lose games when we are dominating every other facet. 

Add in other ball butcher(ers) around them and forward of centre in Sparrow, Viney, Langdon, ANB, Harmes and its plain to see why we struggle going forward. 

The flow-on effect this has on gane-plan, motivation levels, crowd atmosphere etc is much bigger than people give credit. 

 

[The heart beats true 17,753]

1 hour ago, Soidee said:

Damien Hardwick anybody.?

He’s not my type, but to each their own.

[picket fence 16,649]

3 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

I think St Kilda will do as they please. The game isn’t just win by list quality. St Kilda have made massive inroads under Ross. That in itself, is an endorsement on coaching. Do we have a far better list? Yes. But quality of list alone doesn’t correlate to success. 

But good coaching does right??? Its VERY obvious the way forward!

[samcantstandya 1,031]

2 hours ago, Dingo said:

Agree- especially about Smith.He is flexible - and smart

Need to play him Smith in Fritter's role whilst he's out. He's not as good a kick but is dangerous in the air.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Looking forward to playing in the dry for once. At least Gawndy will be able to have some influence 

[Antioch 221]

I’m amazed nobody has noticed the turnover king Lachie Hunter. Please leave him out of the side! And that was Harmes’ worst game ever. Kozzie Picket is not contributing to the best of his ability since signing on. He hangs back or overruns the ball or flies for ungettable marks. Tomlinson must be selected on his form on KB. The team and the coach must sit down and watch the last two Collingwood and Port Adelaide performances and learn how the top two sides are kicking goals. Spread out in the forward fifty guys and don’t bomb it in. Ever! It’s the forward fifty mess and poor connection that’s messing us up.

[Kent 2,859]

18 hours ago, beelzebub said:

You, and others, do realise the only STAT that truly matters....  IS .... Goals !!.. i.e tge Scoreboard.   There's no prize for winning a lot of trumped up innocuous stats...none whatsoever.  You only win via Goals and Points...and Goals far outway points.

All those stats have no real context as much becomes subjective... so all.it really tells you is we ran around all day accomplishing very little for the effort.

Not a stat but an extrapolation of all of them is to ask....why not ? Why weren't we more EFFECTIVE ?   So if you apparently have all the elements....but end up with a dogs breakfast what does that tell you.

Tells me we dont know what we're doing once we get it past the centre. We are literally clueless.  How can this be ? 

Is anyone prepared to put their hand up and say our forward game is 'good'... we're just unlucky ??

Good teams, clever teams don't end up with so many shots on goal with as many 'hard' ones as we do.  

We play a very defensive offence ( forward game)  . It's as though we set out to make it harder than it really ought to be. The number one priority as I observe , when we have the ball in our fwd 50 is to defend the ball. It's absurd really. The number one priority is to score. A condition of the scoring is to give yourselves the best chance by making scoring shots the easiest as can be.

Is it just me...we seem to attempt the polar opposite. 

Theyre all quite capable footballers.

So the real problem must be organisational. 

You are so right Bb

we make it so hard for ourselves. There is no natural forward footy being played and  It is excruciating to watch and doesn't deliver a result.  Its like we are being coached by a monk with a rigid set of rules that everybody follows even though the rules needn't or shouldn't apply. Goodwin has wasted this group of players in my view.

[Kent 2,859]

7 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

That's the art of Coaching though. He's got to have more of an influence on our players or make the hard calls and change the list/positions etc. 

If they're not up to it or not listening, there's got to be some sort of statement made no? This is where I think his unwavering faith in his players works against him. 

I think supporters overrate Trac and Oliver. That sounds wild. But for elite players, they give the ball up far too often. And I'm not talking about their disposals when under pressure. 

Gus while not of the same quality is another. 

It's this lazy, automated and unaware habit that just kills us. Is the number one reason we we kick ourselves out of games and or lose games when we are dominating every other facet. 

Add in other ball butcher(ers) around them and forward of centre in Sparrow, Viney, Langdon, ANB, Harmes and its plain to see why we struggle going forward. 

The flow-on effect this has on gane-plan, motivation levels, crowd atmosphere etc is much bigger than people give credit. 

 

The trouble is Jimmy is that  they are listening to a dud coach in my view!

[The Jackson FIX 2,682]

Anyone know when/where training is this week? Keen to take the Billy lids down for a look

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,818]

If I was ST.Kilda I would do what they used to do at Moorabbin and leave the sprinklers on

[beelzebub 23,197]

8 hours ago, rpfc said:

I agree with the shake up, but not sure what Goodwin should be saying instead.

CP5 and CO13 need to be sat down and told - we don’t dump the footy anymore. Kick to movement or to space. They are our window but they are the worst offenders. Jack Viney is half as good a kick but he has lowered his eyes and been so good this year.

I fully expect us to finish 4th and make a prelim even without Fritsch, but we still need some agitation and a tall forward with forward craft in 2024 and beyond. 

Why do you suppose Clarry and Teac would be told that ?  I ask as it seems to this observer that this is our game. If it wasn't surely they, and all, would have already been instructed as such.  

I dont have the opportunity to go to the training nowadays  ( I'm a 100k away and just not that interested in getting up that early.... so big shout out to Kev, Pickett and others ) but by all accounts there are lead drills practiced... but we hardly see it in games...hardly.   We all understand its about the dump kicks ( more akin to dumb kicks ) into the forwards. 

So little about what we do past centre makes any sense to me. We either know what we should do...and dont...  OR  we dont really know what we're doing ( and do that ....sure looks like it ).  Either way its all wrong (imo)  and it's way past time it changed. Either Simons words aren't getting through...  or they are, just not the words we want.  Any which way ,currently its a chitfest, a dogs dinner. We dont seem to have a clue.  I only ever played burb footy..but as a forward.... just about everything i see is the anti-ethos of just about all i was ever taught. I thought i might  just be ignorant of better ways. A b-i-l ..  ex VFL player..a forward also ( bit better than me lol ) agrees with me..He's also coached. Interesting he offered... you ever get that front end sorted... youve a couple more flags coming.  It baffles him , as it does me, as i think you too  that we just keep on keeping on with the same durge.

I can only summise we play that way as it's the instructed way.  If it wasn't we would have seen wholesale changes by now..no ??

A key element to why we continue to crowd ourselves and fumble is we have no idea of tempo. We're just a bull at the gate... thumping that ball down there ....then expecting something miraculous.  We take no care in what we do... and are then surprised (not) by the results.

There is no escaping that the chief culprit has to be the bloke in charge.

We should have changed our modus by now. It's not working.

I dont think he has a thorough enough grasp of the game styles that need to be employed forward.... or we'd be seeing it. Also the bloke delegated that area is useless. 

Sure as [censored] ...if nothing changes...  nothing will ( outcomes )

Every other coach knows exactly what theyll face... some have the cattle ..some dont... and some are simply better coaches.

Everyone...from most here, to other teams supporters, to the sporting media... everyone knows the area we're poor in.

What changes ???   SFA !!!

[Kent 2,859]

20 hours ago, beelzebub said:

You, and others, do realise the only STAT that truly matters....  IS .... Goals !!.. i.e tge Scoreboard.   There's no prize for winning a lot of trumped up innocuous stats...none whatsoever.  You only win via Goals and Points...and Goals far outway points.

All those stats have no real context as much becomes subjective... so all.it really tells you is we ran around all day accomplishing very little for the effort.

Not a stat but an extrapolation of all of them is to ask....why not ? Why weren't we more EFFECTIVE ?   So if you apparently have all the elements....but end up with a dogs breakfast what does that tell you.

Tells me we dont know what we're doing once we get it past the centre. We are literally clueless.  How can this be ? 

Is anyone prepared to put their hand up and say our forward game is 'good'... we're just unlucky ??

Good teams, clever teams don't end up with so many shots on goal with as many 'hard' ones as we do.  

We play a very defensive offence ( forward game)  . It's as though we set out to make it harder than it really ought to be. The number one priority as I observe , when we have the ball in our fwd 50 is to defend the ball. It's absurd really. The number one priority is to score. A condition of the scoring is to give yourselves the best chance by making scoring shots the easiest as can be.

Is it just me...we seem to attempt the polar opposite. 

Theyre all quite capable footballers.

So the real problem must be organisational. 

You are so right Bb

we make it so hard for ourselves. There is no natural forward footy being played and  It is excruciating to watch and doesn't deliver a result.  Its like we are being coached by a monk with a rigid set of rules that everybody follows even though the rules needn't or shouldn't apply. Goodwin has wasted this group of players in my view.

[drysdale demon 4,687]

10 hours ago, Abyssal said:

So you’ve finally changed your tune on ANB  🤣

Just a bit of a shake up, he will come back, everyone needs a holiday now and again and he can get it in a competition that fields sides of less calibre than local football clubs.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

11 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

Hibberd is out for another 3 weeks. But other than that, not bad. And I would love to see Petracca isolated as a forward, it would scare the s..t out of anyone

Scaring them or us lol?  If he could hit the side of a barn regularly it may work, but he just can't he is so technically flawed,