POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs Geelong

[Macca 16,969]

4 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Can't see this happening while Stafford remains.

Mid-season change up needed here or we will just get more of the same.

Can't believe Goodwin hasn't recognised and acted on this after all this time.

I'm not going to let the players off the hook by simply pointing at the coaches

Most of our forwards have enough experience to know what to do without needing to be told how to play their position

By the same token, we need so much improvement in the basics of forward line play that Stafford's directives are almost certainly an issue as well

I make these comments with a view of September in mind.  We're going to be playing finals but how well prepared are we going to be (up forward) when September arrives?

I'd be bringing Brown in but if JVR remains as well, one of the 2 will have to play away from deep forward you'd imagine

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Just now, Macca said:

I'm not going to let the players off the hook by simply pointing at the coaches

Most of our forwards have enough experience to know what to do without needing to be told how to play their position

By the same token, we need so much improvement in the basics of forward line play that Stafford's directives are almost certainly an issue as well

I make these comments with a view of September in mind.  We're going to be playing finals but how well prepared are we going to be (up forward) when September arrives?

I'd be bringing Brown in but if JVR remains as well, one of the 2 will have to play away from deep forward you'd imagine

 

Can't see our forward line and its craft ever reaching the professional heights that sees it becoming as dangerous / damaging as our defensive / mid field lines while Stafford remains Macca

You can change the deck chairs as often as you like personnel wise, and we have.  Not going anywhere.

But unfortunately the one thing i'm sure of is we will continue on with Stafford until it's too late (for this season anyway) and it finally dawns on enough within the club and he is finally moved on.

The window is still open for another serious tilt if we fix this aspect of the team.

As to how much longer though?  Father time waits for no one. 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

Been happening to Gawn since the beginning of time. God created the heaven, the earth and the holding on Gawn for no free kick. 

I’ve watched this closely for the past few weeks- there is nothing in it. I think we need to move on from this fallacy. 
 

The issue is opponents defend the kick out to Gawn extremely well by sandwiching him. It’s not illegal. What irks me is the 2nd defenders opponent does absolute f all to stop the 3rd man up. He needs to be isolated or use him as a decoy. 
 

He needs to find a way to impose himself on the game. It’s actually worrying how quickly his game is deteriorating.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Gawndy the Great

[Demonsone 2,037]

Copy & paste pressure by Goody… fwd line has been an ongoing issue with stop gap solutions with T Mac and Bb who both have ongoing injuries, grant it they got away with it in 21 flag but look at the top 8 sides fwd lines it’s chalk & cheese, we are expecting a 20yo Jvr to hold down a kpp spot .. feel sorry  for the kid! Expecting Tmac & Bb with continued injuries, don’t hold ur breath as both are past it 

[demon3165 2,718]

26 minutes ago, kev martin said:

On the "Monday's" (the main training sessions out at Casey are closed), I've not seen the forward very often play when they have opponents on them. They have been practicing with being able to make leads that suit the players delivering it. They lead out then change angles and the ball is delivered easily.

I would suggest getting the coaches to at least put some plastic dummies in the way so as to increase the level of difficulty. 

When they do have an opponent at training it seems they are working hard to get separation by doing the "ring a ring a rosy". I very rarely see the double back and lead again, and having that frantic multiple leading movement.  

 During the games they have adopted the close area movement and that ends up causing the deliveries to be on their heads. They also appear stagnant.

Good idea with the banner, but I'm shy, and just cannot do it. Also, in the coaches, I trust.

Better ask sexyland for some more blow up dummies next week..

[Dusty_Hill 194]

Subbing out a small in and under player in the wet when their best tall is out of the game speaks volumes of our coaches. Game lost there. Could not believe my eyes. To think Petty, Max, Grundy or JVR could have done more than Jmac in the last quarter needs their head read. Sorry but there you are Simon and Adam. How many of their talls kicked goals from pack marks in the last? Utter stupidity considering the conditions. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Dusty_Hill

[Macca 16,969]

1 minute ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Can't see our forward line and its craft ever reaching the professional heights that sees it becoming as dangerous / damaging as our defensive / mid field lines while Stafford remains Macca

You can change the deck chairs as often as you like personnel wise, and we have.  Not going anywhere.

But unfortunately the one thing i'm sure of is we will continue on with Stafford until it's too late (for this season anyway) and it finally dawns on enough within the club and he is finally moved on.

The window is still open for another serious tilt if we fix this aspect of the team.

As to how much longer though?  Father time waits for no one. 

JVR needs another year or 2 but the jury is out on how good he might be.  Brown & T-Mac are on their last legs so we need at least 1 more top-line key forward.  Maybe 2 if we want to be spoilt for choice (that's better than the opposite outcome)

It's not really working for Max up forward either ... not enough marks or goals

As for the small forwards, Kozzie is stagnating and Spargo is going backwards.  Chandler looks classy at times but doesn't get it enough

ANB is ANB in that he is what he is.  Can cash in at times.  Fritsch is our best forward but needs it dry

So not a lot of substance but as a collective, our forward line performs better when it's dry and when our backline & midfield is on top

Stand alone?  We have a few shortfalls and that includes the forward line coaching

[Go the Biff 3,423]

Good to see some getting on board the G-train. G for Greg.
 

Stafford has been taking money under false pretences for years. Even when we won a flag we did it spite of our forward structure & methodology rather than because of it.

I understand Stafford has to work withing the parameters of the overall game plan but his area of the ground is dysfunctional. And while I’m not a Goodwin basher by any means, he and his merry men on the coaching panel need to realise that “contest & clearance” are all very well but that only gets you the ball. The name of the game is to maximise the opportunities that “contest & clearance” create and get the bloody ball through the big sticks.

The only appreciable shift from 2021 is that our tall forwards now clump together in the goal square rather than the left pocket.

A direct result of this clumping is that it draws in opposition defenders en masse and leaves them having to defend an area roughly the size of a picnic blanket. We are an opposition Defensive coach’s dream. It’s like Stafford has drawn up a plan and showed it to Chaplin for approval. “Ooh yes I like that” says Chappy. Forgets to tell him why though.

Supporters often wail about our “bombing into 50” but the reality is that often they have no other realistic option. And that’s on our forward structure and method. Further to this I’m often infuriated by Trac’s long mongrel punts into F50 from the midfield but I suspect this is under instruction. We are far more concerned with being out-marked inside F50 than we are with actually marking the ball ourselves. So we kick long floating mungs in the hope of bringing it to ground and causing a stoppage than we are with forwards marking the ball.

Too often :

We press up too high leaving the “over the top” play the only way of scoring

We lead as a pack to the same spot or worse again, congregate at the same spot

We fail to get any separation which gives our forwards a chance at a one on one contest

We fail to have a small front & square of contests – and when we do they’re usually too close to the contest resulting them being tackled immediately on taking possession

We fail to lead towards the ball carrier

We try to take the back shoulder position on opposing defenders which allows them to control the contest. Rule 101 for forwards has always been play in front.

So – to the players.

I’m of the view that BBB is pretty much done. Not his fault but his body has packed it in. Watching him at Casey is almost sad. So barring a miracle knee regeneration, I’ve dismissed him from 2023 calculations. Likewise TMac. History shows that he takes a long time to find consistent form post injury & he’s no spring chicken either.

JVR has a ton of upside but he desperately needs support from another key forward. Not a ruckman masquerading as a KPF. You can’t rely on pack marks in an area that looks like Myers front door at opening time on Boxing Day. It’s not sustainable. We will kill this kid if we don’t stop asking him to play like the second coming of Doug Wade. He needs to be able to rotate out to CHF and sometimes HFF to get some space and some easier possessions. He also needs to pick his moments and lead rather than being a one trick pony.

Petty looks like he’s our best CHB but also our best CHF. He is rarely out marked and can take them as well. He was showing signs of understanding when to work up the ground as a connector before being injured. I’d persevere with he & JVR in the key posts.

Max should not come inside 40 from goal unless it’s for a ruck contest. We become too Max-centric when he’s deep & continually dump it on his head. He takes the occasional goal square mark but not enough to justify him being there. He also draws in opposing rucks and defenders, adding further to the cluster……

ANB has his role but he’s heavily flawed. He needs to do the basics well and for most of this season, his skill level has been poor and this undoes all the good work he performs. While he’s important to the way we play, he’s regressing to his old ways of being a chain of possession breaker. His last quarter on KB was superb. We need more of that from him.

Spargo had a bright start to the season but has been abysmal post concussion. Casey beckons

Chandler is bereft of confidence. Takes an age to make a decision with ball in hand. He also gets lost a lot. I believe his role needs clarifying to assist his positioning and a decent forward coach should be able to do that. In form, there’s a place for him and he can be damaging

Kozzie……has been out of form but showed some glimpses tonight. He’s another who needs his role clarified IMO. He’s trying to be too many things. I also think he needs to be released into the midfield when he’s “cold” down forward. He seems to lift the more he is around the ball and he’s one of our best users up the ground.

Smith is not a KPF’s backside. Anyone who claims he is on the basis of that pre season game where he kicked 4 clearly has never watched the game, just looked at the stat sheet. Tom Stewart tore him to shreds tonight by exposing his lack of forward craft. That said, he does have some characteristics that could be more than useful if we dispense with the “Spargo” role. I’m one who believes we have too many small forwards. Smith could do worse than to study (can’t believe I’m typing this) Garry Rohan’s game tonight. Smith has some similar attributes that we could build into a role that makes him an aerial threat while making the most of his speed and tackling.

Fritta while not without his flaws which many are quick to jump on has been a shining light. How he’s managed to maintain the level of productivity he has in this forward line is remarkable. Love to know what he’d be capable of in a decent set up. For a bloke who could sleep in the shade of a crowbar, he’s asked to do a lot of the heavy lifting. We’ve used a bit more of his delivery inside 50 this season which has been encouraging. I’d like to see him in a 3 way rotation system between the gaol square & the flank with JVR & perhaps Smith.

All of our forward woes are fixable and fixable in season. But it’s a bit like having issues with gambling or drinking. You have to admit you have a problem before you can effectively face it and deal with it. We seem to still be in the denial stage.

Apologies for the long-winded rant but it’s been bubbling for a few years now. Believe it or not I reduced this by about a third before posting. Don’t know how the likes of Binman & DeeSpencer etc keep pumping out those long posts. This has done me in !

Thought it might be cathartic but I’m probably more hacked off than I was when I started typing !

[DubDee 25,863]

is it time to talk about Max? 

he’ll not be AA for the first time for 7 years. 

i love him but he is not dominating like he used to. not taking those big marks. not kicking goals. 

clearly grundy has impacted his role but….

[Deenooos_ 647]

2 hours ago, Tom Dyson said:

'No doubt there tackle pressure and contest work were critical in the last,' if it is so clearly critical and obvious to you now, then why not address the players at 3qt time and stress the urgency of ramping up pressure in the last, from memory geelong had laid 8 tackles in the last before we laid our first. 

Is anyone else getting annoyed by Goody's press conferences, deflects questions about our flaws focusing on what we did well for however short a time, praises the other team while stating we knew the contest would be tough, identifies learnings to work on for the next game even though they've been the same learnings we've needed to work on for 18 months and haven't really gotten discernibly consistent at executing. 

Just about every d-lander i reckon knows how these pressers will go before they happen. Just seems like all talk. 

We simply didn't have the gas in the tank to go hard in the last qtr, couldn't you tell?

[deespicable me 1,486]

Thats it. We're done.

People will laugh and carry on about negativity but this is the first time this year I've posted such negativity because I wasn't sure until now where we stood. But once again Scott has shown us up as absolute pretenders.

As an example Spargo comes on and plays fake tough man and gives away 50 metres. He should have spoiled. How many times did Geelong spoil the ball. Thats tough. Not what Spargo did. But no-one will tell him off. If he spoils that ball like he should have, everyone gets around him and is energised. Instead he'll get dropped.

Look at Rohan. He was about as quarter as good as when he came across from Sydney and their coaches turned him into a good footballer. 

Tanner Bruhn in his 11th game for the Cats starred out of the middle.  

We'll win enough to play finals and may even look dangerous as we head into finals but make no mistake.

We are pretenders. 

[Go Lordie 297]

3 hours ago, adonski said:

The biggest challenge of Tim Lamb's list management career coming up - finding a club that will take on Angus Brayshaw's contract

He will come good, but I have to say his turnovers are killing me.

[Deenooos_ 647]

Geez the overreactions on this thread are truly ridiculous.

Everyone should know that today's performance wasn't us. We are up there with the likes of Collingwood in terms of flag contention. Even in our flag year between r12-17 we played some very bog ordinary games and we were nowhere near a flag, or so it seemed.

The season is long and we still have 9 home and away games to play. I suspect we will lose one of the saints or gws game in the coming 2 weeks but will find our run and form and finish the season off strong with a W/L of 17-6.

Our contest work and defence is still elite and our ball movement/offence has taken a hit, especially in the last 4-5 weeks but it'll come good. If you're worried about our forward line then look at us play at the start of the season. That's how it'll look come finals.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Deenooos_

[Go Lordie 297]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

I'm not going to let the players off the hook by simply pointing at the coaches

Most of our forwards have enough experience to know what to do without needing to be told how to play their position

By the same token, we need so much improvement in the basics of forward line play that Stafford's directives are almost certainly an issue as well

I make these comments with a view of September in mind.  We're going to be playing finals but how well prepared are we going to be (up forward) when September arrives?

I'd be bringing Brown in but if JVR remains as well, one of the 2 will have to play away from deep forward you'd imagine

 

The fact that we are resting our ruckmen in the F50 shows the coach doesn't believe our forwards have the necessary ability to take a mark. What puzzles me is they almost never make a lead for a kicker to aim at. They just wait, with the opposition and all our other forwards for the kicker to dump it on their heads. 

[JJR 681]

Gus 20 Disp

Trac 25 disp

Roo anytime goal scorer

Picket anytime scorer

Got my same game multi at least 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

42 minutes ago, Deenooos_ said:

Geez the overreactions on this thread are truly ridiculous.

Everyone should know that today's performance wasn't us. We are up there with the likes of Collingwood in terms of flag contention. Even in our flag year between r12-17 we played some very bog ordinary games and we were nowhere near a flag, or so it seemed.

The season is long and we still have 9 home and away games to play. I suspect we will lose one of the saints or gws game in the coming 2 weeks but will find our run and form and finish the season off strong with a W/L of 17-6.

Our contest work and defence is still elite and our ball movement/offence has taken a hit, especially in the last 4-5 weeks but it'll come good. If you're worried about our forward line then look at us play at the start of the season. That's how it'll look come finals.

Defence not the problem. Forward connection and being out coached is. 9 games ain’t going to change anything.  

[Lou C. Fur 1,009]

4 hours ago, AmDamDemon said:

Thought it was a good contest. We looked cooked in the last and it effected skill. Credit to Geelong for winning, credit to the umpires for their consistency (consistently terrible) and credit to GMHBA (whatever that is) for sticking their/its name on a dung heap. I can't imagine we'll have to play there again next year 😑

Edit: I really hope Jeremy Cameron is alright

I like your post ADD. It has a refreshing tone, empathy, sarcasm and a cool sledge on the worst AFL stadium in Australia.

I was at the game tonight and witnessed our Dees get error-pounced once again by the Cats with their predictable slingshot football feasting on fumbles by our team in the last quarter. Spent $50 to stand in A10 for the privilege. What a joke! I've just completed the 2 hour drive home, and agree with everything you've posted except for one thing.

I think Melbourne will definitely play Geelong again next year at GMABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZHBA stadium. I believe this because history says so. Last year Melbourne played Geelong at Geelong. This year Geelong should have played Melbourne at the MCG - that would have been only fair. But no. Two years in a row, Melbourne plays Geelong at Geelong. At a ground that's undergoing major reconstruction that can't cater for seating or parking for members and supporters of both clubs due to the constructions works. Many people missed out on seeing the game live tonight.  It beggars belief that the MCG was free tonight and the game was held still held in Geelong. Why wasn't tonight's game held at the MCG?

Since 2000, why has Melbourne played 19 times at GMABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZHBA stadium? The following teams have played far fewer games at this substandard venue: Collingwood (0), Essendon (1), Hawthorn (3), Carlton (3). Geelong's superior attendance in finals this century might just be explained with their receipt of a favourable draw:

Doesn't the above table show that Geelong has been given a fix?

But other than that ADD, I agree with everything you posted.

Go Dees, we'll get them in the finals, again.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Lou C. Fur

[Dockett 32 1,239]

What were the moves to counter the very dislikable Stewart and Rohan?

Their direct opponents should play at Casey next week.

Nothing exciting re our small forward set up last night.
 

 

 

[Deemania since 56 6,637]

6 hours ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Dangerous tackle and got paid as one too. Head whipped back and hit the ground

Staged, at that but effective. 

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

1 hour ago, Dockett 32 said:

What were the moves to counter the very dislikable Stewart and Rohan?

Their direct opponents should play at Casey next week.

Nothing exciting re our small forward set up last night.
 

 

 

Smith was on Stewart his second half was appalling. Hibberd is cooked and made Rohan look like a star fancy him playing his only game for the year against us.

Petty was poor but must be played forward. They are leaving too much to Roo who needs time. The concerning thing we have is our out of form players Gawn, Langdon, Brayshaw, Pickett and Spargo to name a few and Neal-Bullen cost us the game that fumble was so costly. He fumbles too many times good players don't fumble.

[dazzledavey36 54,938]

5 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Well that's top 2 done and dusted, as much as the loss sucked dog appendage, lets be honest we aren't playing at this ground come finals time.

Its all about finishing in the top 4 rather play at the G but Adelaide Oval should hold no fear.              Port will be under truck loads of pressure.

The last quarter fade out was very surprising hoping its an aberration to their credit Ferals were more desperate and smarter around the ground.

Not throwing out all the toys from the cot just yet, plenty of footy to play but we don't play well in the wet that's for damn sure.

 

It should hold fear because we suck playing away from the MCG this year.

Edited June 22, 2023 by dazzledavey36

[Dockett 32 1,239]

46 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Smith was on Stewart his second half was appalling. Hibberd is cooked and made Rohan look like a star fancy him playing his only game for the year against us.

Petty was poor but must be played forward. They are leaving too much to Roo who needs time. The concerning thing we have is our out of form players Gawn, Langdon, Brayshaw, Pickett and Spargo to name a few and Neal-Bullen cost us the game that fumble was so costly. He fumbles too many times good players don't fumble.

So what we have in the way of key forwards are BB and JMac who are  not playing , injury prone and contracted for another year. Why? Think we might have got that wrong. Smith who is not very good and Jefferson shaping as a bust.

Leaves us with pretty much only JVR , good potential , Petty and Fritta to go with.

Hope these long term contracts don’t haunt us.

Think we have to turn over a few rocks, or shake something loose  with our draft picks  to sort this out.

 

 

[Deemania since 56 6,637]

6 hours ago, A F said:

One thing I will say is that Geelong held on and scragged our players all night and got away with it. Gawn was manhandled in every ruck contest. They get a bloody good go that mob. 

The Cats have intuitive rule breaking rights - we all know that constant holding, scragging and other means of player handicapping are their privileged operational entitlement. Making space, hard running & return, heads-up execution are the keys to countering that which the umpires overlook. A very bored Chocko was sitting in the dug-out hoping to impart a word or two with the 'benching' rest breaks for our players - right across the game - or so it appeared. His contribution was continuously met with GoodWin's back and minimal player interaction. I doubt whether having this coach at ground level is worthwhile ... he seems to misinterpret a wider and more complete view of the progress of the game and certainly, applies few changes, remedies and recommendations in that capacity. 

[Hawny for Gawny 451]

5 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

I’ve watched this closely for the past few weeks- there is nothing in it. I think we need to move on from this fallacy. 
 

The issue is opponents defend the kick out to Gawn extremely well by sandwiching him. It’s not illegal. What irks me is the 2nd defenders opponent does absolute f all to stop the 3rd man up. He needs to be isolated or use him as a decoy. 
 

He needs to find a way to impose himself on the game. It’s actually worrying how quickly his game is deteriorating.

I think the knee injury is still impacting him, he's a big unit, on the wrong side of 30, and had a knee injury mid season. I expect better but I do think there are mediating factors, also the fact that teams have put even more time into stopping him considering our D-50 exit is May to Gawn 90% of the time

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

The major turning point in the match was the Fritsch chase down tackle that was paid as a sling/dangerous tackle. We looked to be away at goal Ann’s they kick one off the back of that free and the riot started. I haven’t had a second look at it, but first glance said it was a good tackle.