POSTGAME: Rd 12 vs Carlton

[Wodjathefirst 2,632]

16 hours ago, Watson11 said:

It’s hard to get to 10w after 11 rounds so full credit to Collingwood, but it’s not that uncommon. Has been done 15x over the last 20 seasons.  6 went on to be premiers. So more than likely pies won’t be premiers.

 

16 hours ago, Watson11 said:

It’s also much harder to win 10 of your last 11 h&a games.  Has only been done 8x in 20 years.  Of these, 5 went on to be premiers.

I am getting the distinct impression that it is very hard to win a premiership. 
One thing I definitely do know that it can take time. I had to wait 57 years…..but it was worth the wait. GO DEES!!!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,216]

6 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

And what would it achieve if there was a pile on in the media?

Country football is struggling to get umpires, abusive behaviour being the reason. Media pile on will just hinder the effort to get more involved.  You very well know that it’s an impossible game to umpire. Neutral observers will debate decisions having had the benefit of multiple replays. The umps have to make a decision in a split second. 
 

I stopped sitting with some mates because the majority of their focus was umpire related. They hate victim hood but at the footy any game we lose by less than 20 points is always because of the umps. 
 

We’ve got a great game but one of the characterises is that the rules require interpretation and are very had to apply. And our game is so much better when it is the focus and not the umps.  The umps don’t make mistakes on purpose just as players don’t. If we supported them rather than vilified them we might attract a greater pool from which to choose from and that might result in a greater depth of umpires and a better result for all concerned.  So I’d suggest we give the umpire bashing a rest for the good of the game. 

Being critical of poor umpiring isn't "bashing".

AFL umpires are different to country and suburban leagues.

[Adam The God 30,256]

5 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Let Kozzie go for the odd hanger, FFS the funs beaten out of everything these days. We handed control to accountants, lawyers and bankers and it ain’t supposed to be that way

Agreed. I'm fine with the occasional hanger. As long as he stays in the contest afterwards/brings the ball to ground.

[Adam The God 30,256]

2 minutes ago, Wodjathefirst said:

 

I am getting the distinct impression that it is very hard to win a premiership. 
One thing I definitely do know that it can take time. I had to wait 57 years…..but it was worth the wait. GO DEES!!!

Nah, it's not hard to win a flag. Because Hawthorn, Richmond and Geelong managed three each, it's easy to win flags.

The hot takes around here have been getting hotter. 👌

Edited June 4, 2023 by A F

[Orion 332]

53 minutes ago, A F said:

Our first 10 games last year were far superior to Collingwood's first 10 this year.

Different club.  Different year

Edited June 4, 2023 by Orion

[Flower Magic 776]

46 minutes ago, A F said:

Agreed. I'm fine with the occasional hanger. As long as he stays in the contest afterwards/brings the ball to ground.

But he doesn't, and that's the problem. And it's not the small forward's job to bring the ball to ground. Kozi is lethal on the ground, not in the air.

[Adam The God 30,256]

30 minutes ago, Flower Magic said:

But he doesn't, and that's the problem. And it's not the small forward's job to bring the ball to ground. Kozi is lethal on the ground, not in the air.

Disagree. He's still involved at ground level for the most part. But each to their own.

[Superunknown 4,217]

6 hours ago, DeeZone said:

Well it was a good night at the G not to cold, pies were hot and fries crispy we arrived a bit earlier than usual. 7.50 start just to late, almost 50,000 was a tad disappointing given the way the media were pumping the Blues up. The lady next to me thought our players looked like they were on Valium early but we perked up and with Tomlinson in to take the heat our whole backline lifted and held sway all night. Tracc was imposing has quick hands and high footy IQ superb all round game, how good to have a fit Salo back. 59 inside 50’s to 39 seemed about right if we can get the forward 50 connection right and accuracy back to where it needs to be could have been a percentage booster. Judd and Roo are both very smart footballers they constantly surprise me. Mind you some of our early kicking killed our momentum and from some of our more experienced players. Never felt threatened all night but how good would it be to have Big Harry running around in our forward line, have to get Benny fully fit for our run at the finals, shoulda won by more but really enjoyed singing the song again. Pleasant trip home and watched the replay. Good night.!!

I tnink the late starts need a discussion. You want kids at the game? Start it at 7.15-7.20. It’s way, way too late. 

[rpfc 28,430]

3 hours ago, A F said:

Agreed. I'm fine with the occasional hanger. As long as he stays in the contest afterwards/brings the ball to ground.

Especially with our proclivity to kick to the boundary line - what’s he going to do - rove it in the third row?

[loges 6,767]

I don't know what people were expecting from Tomlinson, he was playing on a Coleman medal winner conceding height and weight. Give him time to settle back in , backline was so much better with the third tall.Also fully expect  Petty to play forward when he returns, he's the only one with the marking ability and mobility to play the position, there is no one else.

[pitmaster 3,551]

35 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

I tnink the late starts need a discussion. You want kids at the game? Start it at 7.15-7.20. It’s way, way too late. 

It's determined by what suits the Seven Network.

 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

Did anyone else notice the blocking the Blues forwards were doing in their forward line? I thought that was illegal.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

5 hours ago, A F said:

Our first 10 games last year were far superior to Collingwood's first 10 this year.

They weren't but okay. 

[monoccular 17,428]

On 6/3/2023 at 1:39 PM, DaveyJones'sLocker said:

He’s unlucky IMO. coming in to put pressure on and potentially lay a tackle and the Carlton player over cooked the handball and it leaves him with a split second to make a decision. 

 

The magic Gleeson 0.3 seconds or so it seems. 

[monoccular 17,428]

2 hours ago, Superunknown said:

I tnink the late starts need a discussion. You want kids at the game? Start it at 7.15-7.20. It’s way, way too late. 

Not only kids either. Some seniors in particular also find this time way too late.  
Even  watching “neutral games” on TV unless it is close or high standard, I may just turn off at half time.  Surely even the TV execs who seem to run AFL scheduling  will be aware of this?
And this is all the worse with the regular “train replaced by busses” we seem to get all the time. 

[The heart beats true 18,123]

Very good footage of Lever on First Crack tonight essentially denying Curnow the ball all game on Friday night. 

The big takeaway was that while all the talk will be about our lack of scoring the bigger story should be the way we defended as a team. Had some great footage of Chandler taking the initiative to set everyone up too.

 

[Sydee 4,439]

Having watched the game again I think JVR’s game was arguably his best to date 

His efforts particularly in the last quarter taking contested marks and gut running was really very impressive 

Hopefully he can continue to build on this - very promising effort 

[DemonicFinalFantasy 235]

10:29 left in the 2nd Qtr.

May is waiting to kick in after Motlop scored a behind. Max is crossing ALONE (from roughly right back flank) to the left wing area in expectation May will kick in to that area (to most demonlanders ire!).

What Max doesn't realise is he is unchecked by any Carlton player and could have taken effectively an uncontested mark in the centre square from May
.. and from there, anyone's guess, a one on one for van Rooyen???

The turning of back to the play is so prevalent in this team esp when marked in the forward line. I can't think of a justifiable reason to do it. Even a glance would be appropriate. Its frustrating to see opportunities missed that really shouldn't be.

[binman 42,959]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:00 AM, Slartibartfast said:

And what would it achieve if there was a pile on in the media?

Country football is struggling to get umpires, abusive behaviour being the reason. Media pile on will just hinder the effort to get more involved.  You very well know that it’s an impossible game to umpire. Neutral observers will debate decisions having had the benefit of multiple replays. The umps have to make a decision in a split second. 
 

I stopped sitting with some mates because the majority of their focus was umpire related. They hate victim hood but at the footy any game we lose by less than 20 points is always because of the umps. 
 

We’ve got a great game but one of the characterises is that the rules require interpretation and are very had to apply. And our game is so much better when it is the focus and not the umps.  The umps don’t make mistakes on purpose just as players don’t. If we supported them rather than vilified them we might attract a greater pool from which to choose from and that might result in a greater depth of umpires and a better result for all concerned.  So I’d suggest we give the umpire bashing a rest for the good of the game. 

All excellent points. And i agree with them.

I'm not suggesting there should be media pile on the umpires. The media should be piling on the AFL.

I don't blame the umpires for being poor collectively. I blame the AFL.

Umpires are a vital element of the game and their performance has a huge impact on how games play out. 

Each game should have at least one (but ideally three) full time professional umpire (and keep the current set up for boundary and goal umpires). These umpires should have a strong base salary and the ability to earn significant bonuses based on their performance. 

Provide a legitimate pathway for young umpires to progress through the ranks to be professional umpires at the elite level. Or young guns who are terrific players but won’t make the grade but want to get involved in AFL football. 

Give them a range of other responsibilities (because they are full time professionals) other than match day and training – umpire AFLW finals, mentoring AFLW and VFL umpires, community outreach to local clubs and  local league umpires etc etc.

SB, you are 100% right, it is an incredibly hard game to umpire full of grey areas and subjectivity. Invest time and resources time to help them deal with these challenges.

Enhance their decision making skills under pressure and ability to ignore the crowd.  

Have them work in teams so they build synergy. 

All this is possible if they are full time professional. Or at least some are.

Because I have had this debate for years and years, I have heard all the arguments about why the current model of well-paid amateurs works. None stack up for mine.

The most common argument aginst professional umpires is that it is prohibitively expensive. 

Please – it is a multibillion dollar industry and we have accountants and physiotherapists making decisions that can change the fortune of a club.

Think of Grand Final day. The very best umpires get selected and almost always do a great job. We know that because we don’t notice them. Every AFL game should be like that. The stakes are high.  

How long ago was it that Hawkins was awarded a goal in a grand final that actually hit the post? Maybe the Cats won because of that mistake?

Well, apparently this was way, way too big a risk and hang the expense we have to make sure a grand final can never be decided by a ‘howler’ again. 

Here we are some 15 years later and despite the millions spent on the VAR system and the non officating umpre, they still haven’t got the system right.

But few argue we don't need such a system. Because apparently getting scores right is critical. 

Meanwhile we are seemingly ok with 15 howlers a round and multiple games a year where the result is unduly influenced by sub par umpiring performances because the AFL has decided not to invest the resources required to make the standard of umpiring elite for a supposedly elite competition. 

The AFL tamp down criticism of individual umpiring performances - and fair enough too.

But it is disingenuous because the implication is any criticism of the standard of umpiring is an attack on umpires themselves - which i agree is not ok.

But the brilliant part of the strategy is there is no questioning of the AFL and its clear responsibility to ensure the game is officiated to the highest possible standards. And in every other part of the game striving to achieve the highest standard involves increased professionalism.

But apparently not for one of the most critical elements - umpiring.

And I'd go further.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but the AFL have long run on the theory that dominating media attention helps crowd out other sports. The any news is good news principle.

Every single year there is a new rules related controversy and a slew of 'interpretation' changes in season. Who is impacted most by this? Who cop it the most? The umpires, amateurs all.

Leaving aside whether this is deliberate, if the AFL is so concerned about the umpires  how about sorting out the rules of the game and taking out as much subjectivity and grey areas as possible and stop making interpretation changes in season so it is not so damn difficult to do the job.

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by binman

[beelzebub 23,376]

Umpiring needs to be professional.  Simple as that. Every possible aspect of discussion revolves around or emanates from it not being so currently.

Beggars belief that it isn't.

[Macca 16,969]

Looks like we've gone back to concentrating on defense first.  We looked back to our best in the 2nd half against the Blues (Defence-wise)

In an ideal world Petty rejoins the backline to make it even stronger

But for that to happen we might need JVR to hold down CHF (I reckon he can do it) with Brown to come into the side as the FF.  Either that or T-Mac finds some form (FF more so than CHF as he doesn't appear to have the legs up the ground)

But Petty can hold down CHF if we go down that path ... he competes well, plays in front and brings the ball to ground for the small forewards.  He doesn't have to hit the scoreboard frequently as the position (CHF) can be played in a variety of different ways

If that is the pathway, Tomlinson can be used periodically as the trouble-shooter down back.  Lever & May seem to be more freed up with another tall backman to help them out

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Macca

[beelzebub 23,376]

12 hours ago, monoccular said:

Not only kids either. Some seniors in particular also find this time way too late.  
Even  watching “neutral games” on TV unless it is close or high standard, I may just turn off at half time.  Surely even the TV execs who seem to run AFL scheduling  will be aware of this?
And this is all the worse with the regular “train replaced by busses” we seem to get all the time. 

Absolutely. 

Scenario for moi

Game ends.   15/20 mins to get on Richmond  Station.  Maybe 5-15  mins for train 

45mins on train

5mins walk to car

45/50 min drive home.

It's a very late night.

[layzie 33,801]

Watching it back I would agree with above, if JVR doesn't get the rising star this week I'd be rather baffled. 

[loges 6,767]

15 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Absolutely. 

Scenario for moi

Game ends.   15/20 mins to get on Richmond  Station.  Maybe 5-15  mins for train 

45mins on train

5mins walk to car

45/50 min drive home.

It's a very late night.

It's even a late night if you watched from home but have to get up early for work the next morning 

[layzie 33,801]

12 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Very good footage of Lever on First Crack tonight essentially denying Curnow the ball all game on Friday night. 

The big takeaway was that while all the talk will be about our lack of scoring the bigger story should be the way we defended as a team. Had some great footage of Chandler taking the initiative to set everyone up too.

 

Our defence was fantastic and not just in our back 50, we also denied them easy entries into there and this suggests to me that our defensive structures from midfield did their job too. Just the 37 I50s for the Blues.